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Design Flaw - Achievement Combat Skill Points


32 posts in this topic

Posted

Hello, there's a topic I would like to bring up.

As you're leveling up your character you get Achievements for reaching levels... 10, 20, 30, 40, 45, 50, and 60. Each of these Achievements grant you Combat Skill Points (x), as well as some other things, but the point of this topic will be Combat Skill Points.

Details:
Level 10 Achievement - Combat Skill Points (1) + Other
Level 20 Achievement - Combat Skill Points (2) + Other
Level 30 Achievement - Combat Skill Points (3) + Other
Level 40 Achievement - Combat Skill Points (4) + Other
Level 45 Achievement - Combat Skill Points (4) + Other
Level 50 Achievement - Combat Skill Points (5) + Other
Level 60 Achievement - Combat Skill Points (7) + Other

In total you will receive 26 Combat Skill Points from Achievements! smile.png

Now let's talk about the issue I noticed with this.

You can only receive rewards from an Achievement on 1 character, therefore you can only receive these extra 26 Combat Skill points on a single character PER GAME ACCOUNT.

If you are familiar with the way Combat Skill Point XP works, you know that there is a Softcap on the amount of levels you will receive for Combat Skill Points. These extra 26 Combat Skill Points are crucial to go onto your main character. Also note that every Alt character you make will be lacking these extra 26 Combat Skill Points.

IMO, this is very broken/over-sighted  game design, and needs to be fixed.

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Posted

Hello, there's a topic I would like to bring up.

As you're leveling up your character you get Achievements for reaching levels... 10, 20, 30, 40, 45, 50, and 60. Each of these Achievements grant you Combat Skill Points (x), as well as some other things, but the point of this topic will be Combat Skill Points.

Details:
Level 10 Achievement - Combat Skill Points (1) + Other
Level 20 Achievement - Combat Skill Points (2) + Other
Level 30 Achievement - Combat Skill Points (3) + Other
Level 40 Achievement - Combat Skill Points (4) + Other
Level 45 Achievement - Combat Skill Points (4) + Other
Level 50 Achievement - Combat Skill Points (5) + Other
Level 60 Achievement - Combat Skill Points (7) + Other

In total you will receive 26 Combat Skill Points from Achievements! smile.png

Now let's talk about the issue I noticed with this.

You can only receive rewards from an Achievement on 1 character, therefore you can only receive these extra 26 Combat Skill points on a single character PER GAME ACCOUNT.

If you are familiar with the way Combat Skill Point XP works, you know that there is a Softcap on the amount of levels you will receive for Combat Skill Points. These extra 26 Combat Skill Points are crucial to go onto your main character. Also note that every Alt character you make will be lacking these extra 26 Combat Skill Points.

IMO, this is very broken/over-sighted  game design, and needs to be fixed.

No it's not, that way you can only have skill point "advantage" on one character per account, aka your main.

If you want that advantage on other character, feel free to get another copy of the game.

Before you start crying p2w, no no no no no, it is pay to get convenient. And you can play fine without having other "combat" characters.

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Posted

No it's not, that way you can only have skill point "advantage" on one character per account, aka your main.

If you want that advantage on other character, feel free to get another copy of the game.

Before you start crying p2w, no no no no no, it is pay to get convenient. And you can play fine without having other "combat" characters.

Thanks for your input, you summed up all the issues of the Achievement Combat Skill Points for me.

New character comes out, you want to change your main "combat" character to that new character, but you are lacking Combat Skill Points unless you buy a whole new account.

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Posted

Yeah, that doesn't seem right. >.> 

I wonder if it's actually per account or per server. Because if it's per whole account- Serendia Survivors got really screwed over here. A lot of them were between the levels 20-40+ when Daum posted that they'll have to make new characters on a different server as they won't provide server transfers.

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Posted

Thanks for your input, you summed up all the issues of the Achievement Combat Skill Points for me.

New character comes out, you want to change your main "combat" character to that new character, but you are lacking Combat Skill Points unless you buy a whole new account.

I'm wondering if people realize that those skill points are received before you hit the softcap. That means that if you want to make a new character you will need to a little more grinding (something you will do anyway) to get to the same number. It's not a disadvantage really considering if it's your second toon you should already have a good idea of all of the content and more than likely have much better gear than you did the first time around.

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Posted

Yeah, that doesn't seem right. >.> 

I wonder if it's actually per account or per server. Because if it's per whole account- Serendia Survivors got really screwed over here. A lot of them were between the levels 20-40+ when Daum posted that they'll have to make new characters on a different server as they won't provide server transfers.

Yup. As far as I know, you can only get an Achievement once, and you can only accept the rewards on 1 character.

I'm wondering if people realize that those skill points are received before you hit the softcap. That means that if you want to make a new character you will need to a little more grinding (something you will do anyway) to get to the same number. It's not a disadvantage really considering if it's your second toon you should already have a good idea of all of the content and more than likely have much better gear than you did the first time around.

The Combat Skill Points are received when you say "Accept" on the Achievement Reward.  It doesn't just give it to you when you reach it, you have to accept the reward.

So in theory, you can reach the softcap, and then accept the rewards, making you go over the softcap EZ PZ.

 

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Posted

At 50+, 20-something skill points is not a lot. That can be gained in 1-2 hours of grinding.

Point taken that it would seem logical to apply this to every character and not the account, but this is simply the way achievements and titles work in this game.

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Posted

At 50+, 20-something skill points is not a lot. That can be gained in 1-2 hours of grinding.

Point taken that it would seem logical to apply this to every character and not the account, but this is simply the way achievements and titles work in this game.

1-2 hours? You must never hit the soft cap. I took me a whole 3+ hours to get 1 level up at lv 52 and that is with nonstop killing at most dense area.

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Posted (edited)

1-2 hours? You must never hit the soft cap. I took me a whole 3+ hours to get 1 level up at lv 52 and that is with nonstop killing at most dense area.

I'm almost 52 and in a grinding session of a few hours I can get 30+ skill points. One hour was perhaps a bit of an overestimate, I'll give you that. But two hours or more and you should easily be able to get 20.

Edited by NerdRage

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Posted (edited)

Yup. As far as I know, you can only get an Achievement once, and you can only accept the rewards on 1 character.

The Combat Skill Points are received when you say "Accept" on the Achievement Reward.  It doesn't just give it to you when you reach it, you have to accept the reward.

So in theory, you can reach the softcap, and then accept the rewards, making you go over the softcap EZ PZ.

 

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/38795-psa-skill-point-quest-rewards-do-not-affect-sp-soft-cap/

If that's true I'd assume the achievements work the same way?

Edited by Maconi
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Posted (edited)

Ah, great link! So the Achievement Combat Skill Points have nothing to do with the softcap, that's a good start.

But now there is still the problem of... You can only get those 26 points on 1 single character per account.

I think to remedy this, they just need to make it where all you characters get those extra 26 points.

Whenever you make a new character, or when BDO releases new characters and you create one of them, they will not have those extra 26 points.

We can hope and pray something will be done about it, easiest way is to make sure this information stays relevant and people talk about it.

Edited by vSyNd
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Posted

if there was a hardcap on SP you can get with grinding, i'd go with design flaw.

Right now it's an oversight at most. Mildly inconvenient but in the end we all are aiming for higher than a base 500 build anyway if we seriously like that character. Doesn't break it.Right now im changing my main so it obviously sucks for me :P but i'll be fine. If they change it all the better.

 

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Posted

I'm almost 52 and in a grinding session of a few hours I can get 30+ skill points. One hour was perhaps a bit of an overestimate, I'll give you that. But two hours or more and you should easily be able to get 20.

Then you haven't hit soft cap then. few hours and get 30+ skill is impossible after soft cap, it level so slow, you get 3 skill points around 7% or so of your level xp.

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Posted

Then you haven't hit soft cap then. few hours and get 30+ skill is impossible after soft cap, it level so slow, you get 3 skill points around 7% or so of your level xp.

I'm fully aware of the skill soft cap and how it slows down. My original point was that the meager skill points gained through leveling will be immediately overshadowed by short-term grinding after hitting 50.

And I still agree with the OP; it would be logical as it is speculated that quest and achievement points do not count toward the cap.

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Posted

I'm fully aware of the skill soft cap and how it slows down. My original point was that the meager skill points gained through leveling will be immediately overshadowed by short-term grinding after hitting 50.
And I still agree with the OP; it would be logical as it is speculated that quest and achievement points do not count toward the cap.

I hit a soft cap at 541, so yes it is different between the two.

However, 20+ skill points are a lot, I am struggling now to get enough skill points for last skill which requires 22 skill points as it would take me a whole week to grind, so no at lv 50+ after soft cap, every skill points count as I scout those old quests for any possible skill points.

It will be more easy once soft cap level increase to 55, however now if I want that skill point, I would have hit at least more than half way into lv 52.

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Posted

 

The Combat Skill Points are received when you say "Accept" on the Achievement Reward.  It doesn't just give it to you when you reach it, you have to accept the reward.

So in theory, you can reach the softcap, and then accept the rewards, making you go over the softcap EZ PZ.

 

Touche. This could be what's happening but I very highly doubt it. Either way, skill points are not hard at all to obtain. Up to the soft cap you can get 20+ an hr of grinding. Not really as much of an issue as the OP makes it out to be

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Posted

Touche. This could be what's happening but I very highly doubt it. Either way, skill points are not hard at all to obtain. Up to the soft cap you can get 20+ an hr of grinding. Not really as much of an issue as the OP makes it out to be

Soft cap is 500.

So say you are leveling up your skill points and you reach the 500. now try to level up a skill point 1 more time, and it will take you a very long time. getting to 501 would take you... idk how long. but what if I told you I could just give you 26 points after you reach the soft cap. now you can have an upwards of 560 skill points (quests + Achievements) which you can only get on one character.

It's a pretty big deal.

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Posted

The combat skill points should be given to EVERY character that hits the milestone achievement. Only the skill points though they don't need to be given the other stuff. I think that is pretty sensible and fair

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Posted

Soft cap is 500.

So say you are leveling up your skill points and you reach the 500. now try to level up a skill point 1 more time, and it will take you a very long time. getting to 501 would take you... idk how long. but what if I told you I could just give you 26 points after you reach the soft cap. now you can have an upwards of 560 skill points (quests + Achievements) which you can only get on one character.

It's a pretty big deal.

Not following you here. Even if you wait until the soft cap, how is getting 26 free points going to make you magically have 560? You're off by like 34 points. 

Currently I have about 541 skill points. Of which, zero were held when I got the achievements. So I can safely say that I have farmed 41 skill points since being 50. Now just doing my usual dailies and grinding the kill quests for guild each night I end up with roughly 8-10 skill points a night. My nights being from 6pm central until around 11 central. So in 5 hours I avg about 2 skill points an hr. Granted if I was doing full grinding per hour I am sure I could actually net more. 

I am not negating that the 26 points make a difference. Free points are free points and saving them for over the cap is definitely the right idea to have. But to say that this is preventing you from being competitive on an alt is a bit of a stretch. Yes, it will take longer to reach the same level but for most classes it really won't even change anything. IDK about you but I have had all of my main skills I use maxxed out for quite some time. Yea there is some utility I could get that would be helpful but they aren't skills that are a 'must have'. 

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Posted

I'm almost 52 and in a grinding session of a few hours I can get 30+ skill points. One hour was perhaps a bit of an overestimate, I'll give you that. But two hours or more and you should easily be able to get 20.

Then you're not at soft cap.
Skill exp and combat exp are two different things.

Skill exp softcap is 500
combat exp softcap is 50

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Posted

To go even farther, since it is your second character you already know how the game works. So skipping all quests and grinding to 50 allows you to go back and do all those quests for skill points as well after the cap. Because every character does still get those quests. So it really all depends on you as the player on what you want to do. 

The bigger issue with alts is the level difference factor in pvp. Falling behind is such a bad thing. Geared lvl 50 vs a geared lvl 54-55 ... the 50 doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell

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Posted

Not following you here. Even if you wait until the soft cap, how is getting 26 free points going to make you magically have 560? You're off by like 34 points. 

Currently I have about 541 skill points. Of which, zero were held when I got the achievements. So I can safely say that I have farmed 41 skill points since being 50. Now just doing my usual dailies and grinding the kill quests for guild each night I end up with roughly 8-10 skill points a night. My nights being from 6pm central until around 11 central. So in 5 hours I avg about 2 skill points an hr. Granted if I was doing full grinding per hour I am sure I could actually net more. 

I am not negating that the 26 points make a difference. Free points are free points and saving them for over the cap is definitely the right idea to have. But to say that this is preventing you from being competitive on an alt is a bit of a stretch. Yes, it will take longer to reach the same level but for most classes it really won't even change anything. IDK about you but I have had all of my main skills I use maxxed out for quite some time. Yea there is some utility I could get that would be helpful but they aren't skills that are a 'must have'. 

" 560 skill points (Quests + Achievements) "

It's ok if you don't get it, just know that you are 26 Combat Skill Points short on every alt character you ever make. Including the new released characters when they come out. Making your build impossible to be optimal without buying a whole new account.

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" 560 skill points (Quests + Achievements) "

It's ok if you don't get it, just know that you are 26 Combat Skill Points short on every alt character you ever make. Including the new released characters when they come out. Making your build impossible to be optimal without buying a whole new account.

It can't be quests + achievements when the quests are per character not per family. You only lose the achievement points. If 26 points is that big a deal to you then sorry to hear it, just buy a new account. For me, it's a Saturday of grinding

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Posted

It can't be quests + achievements when the quests are per character not per family. You only lose the achievement points. If 26 points is that big a deal to you then sorry to hear it, just buy a new account. For me, it's a Saturday of grinding

I know the quest can be done on every character.

You're missing the point that the softcap is 500, so while you can get those 26 points, it's going to take you a lot of grinding to achieve.

Example:

Leveling from 499 to 500 requires 5,000xp (not the real value).

Now leveling from 500 to 501 requires 50,000xp (not the real value).

And then leveling from 501 to 502 requires 100,000xp (not the real value).

This is how the sofcap works, so it will take you an increasingly longer amount of time every time you level up. Making those 26 points VERY hard to achieve.

So no, you cant grind that out in 1 day.

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Posted

 

So no, you cant grind that out in 1 day.

We shall see. Plan to grind to 53 this weekend so I'll update you on how many I get

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