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Blatant cash grabs are a major turn off

170 posts in this topic

Posted

They couldn't even disguise their pricing model as something else. They blatantly said: to keep future content free.

What????

That's disrespectful.

What did you think they did with the money they make other than keeping servers up, and keeping employees paid? 
How is it disrespectful to say "HEY guys, this game is not free to keep up or expand on, so the cash shop is helping all of the future content be 100% free to the entire playerbase whether or not you personally spent anything there."

How is that disrespectful? 

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Posted (edited)

What did you think they did with the money they make other than keeping servers up, and keeping employees paid? How is it disrespectful to say "HEY guys, this game is not free to keep up or expand on, so the cash shop is helping all of the future content be 100% free to the entire playerbase whether or not you personally spent anything there."

How is that disrespectful? 

It's disrespectful because it's not believable, for that alone (keeping the game alive) the pricing shouldn't be that high... all the content is already made in Korea first, where it is already payed for by their cash shop, so all they have to do over here is localization (which can be - and evidently has been - very cheaply outsourced), server upkeep and staff.

So, there are only two explanations for our pricing model: Either Daum NA/EU's costs are that much higher then that of any other f2p publisher that's hosting an eastern game in the West, or they are deliberately nickle and diming the Western audience...

Edited by WarBaby2
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Posted

It's disrespectful because for that alone (keeping the game alive) the pricing shouldn't be that high... all the content is already made in Korea first, where it is already payed for by their cash shop, so all they have to do over here is localization (which can be - and evidently has been - very cheaply outsourced), server upkeep and staff.

So, there are only two explanations for our pricing model: Either Daum NA/EU's costs are that much higher then that of any other f2p publisher that's hosting an eastern game in the West, or they are deliberately nickle and diming the Western audience...

You people are literally complaining that other people are paying for the content drops to all be free, and calling it "disrespectful."
It's just beyond laughable at this point. 

 

Daum Runs the game in KR and NA/EU. They opened a new office and hired a whole new staff in the EU to handle this localization. At least know about the company you are trying so hard to bash for whatever reason. KR's cash shop is keeping the KR version going, the NA/EU shop needs to be able to keep the NA/EU version up, 
They've decided that these price points are optimal for the money they need to keep the game running for us, and that's why they are that price. 

Either deal with it, or have fun being miserable. 

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Posted

You people are literally complaining that other people are paying for the content drops to all be free, and calling it "disrespectful."It's just beyond laughable at this point. 

 

Daum Runs the game in KR and NA/EU. They opened a new office and hired a whole new staff in the EU to handle this localization. At least know about the company you are trying so hard to bash for whatever reason. KR's cash shop is keeping the KR version going, the NA/EU shop needs to be able to keep the NA/EU version up, 
They've decided that these price points are optimal for the money they need to keep the game running for us, and that's why they are that price. 

Either deal with it, or have fun being miserable. 

What a piece of shit.

 

Ignored.

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Posted

 

What a piece of shit.

 

Ignored.

lol k

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Posted

As has been said many times since the CBT2 patch notes revealed the cash shop pricing - selling more items at lower prices is better than selling fewer at higher. This is not an unsubstantiated claim, this is something that has been shown to be true repeatedly in market research conducted by developers, publishers, as well as industry research groups. It is something that has been commented upon by developers and publishers in interviews and convention speeches. It not only results in higher revenue, but also in positive word of mouth - which is more effective at attracting new players than traditional advertising methods (which they must pay for).

This is absolutely false, as I have explained in another post, products are price elastic or, in some cases, inelastic. That's business management 101.

An example of a product with elastic price: Ferrari car. (decrease of 1% of price will increase sales by more than 1%. If 2%, then price elasticity is 2)

An example of a product with inelastic price: Water. (decrease of 1% of price will increase sales by less than 1%. If 0,5%, then price elasticity is 0.5)

Now you say that "selling more items at lower prices is better than selling fewer at higher", you are assuming that the price is elastic (>1)

Do you have some research on the particular sector/target audience/market that indicates that this is the case? Can you share them with us so that we know for sure that if they decreased prices by 30% (costumes for 20€ for instance), sales would increase by MORE than 30%? 

I assume that if they decided on this pricing point, it is because that is the pricing point that maximises the formula: 

Unit price x Units sold = Maximum profit

As you understand, the company's objective is neither to increase Unit price or increase Units sold, their objective is to increase maximum profit so we can assume that this equation is already optimised based on the research they have access to.

 

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Posted

OP's points are the exact reasons I didn't buy the game.

They may be making money on this stuff, but how much are they losing from potential long-term players like me who are so turned-off by this approach that they refuse to buy the game?

lmao, losing??? how far do u think your $30 go about paying for their staff/maintenance cost, come on we live in a real world, its better for them and u not to have a relationship because the divorce will be bitter especially for u, heh.

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Posted

I have only been playing for a couple weeks, but have discovered a number of things that have seriously pissed me off. Instead of wall-o-text I will just bullet point:

  • In game armor drops are intentionally drab. Looking at what the NPC's are wearing it is obvious this was a "pearl shop" decision on the developers part
  • You cannot have a visible helmet without a hefty investment in real world cash.
  • There is no area loot system in the game, even though the developers obviously have the skill to do this easily. Your only option to work around this is to buy a cash only pet, although most recommend at least 3. if anyone has the gall to complain about this the fanbois start screaming "go back to <insert other mmo here> if you want easy mode! We hit R a thousand times a minute like REAL men!"
  • did you buy every skill that popped up when you were a new player? Well its $9 per mistake to remedy this, sorry we didn't mention it during the tutorial. Have fun  un-screwing your character!
  • Want a better pet? Well sonny all you have to do is buy two of the same species at $10 a piece, breed them together (losing both because breeding causes death, that makes sense) and maybe if the stars are aligned you will get 1 pet out of it that's one degree high, and a random sex to boot. Care to do the math on how much it would actually cost to get a tier 3 pet?
  • Like pvp? Want in a high end pvp clan? Don't want to shell out $30 for a gille suit? GFL

I know I am shouting into the void here, but letting a developer get away with this kinda crap because the come from a different country where this is acceptable is beyond fanboi. It is absolutely absurd. Why am I bothering to post about this? Because I love the gameplay itself and I REALLY want this game to do well in the western market. It has great mechanics, and horrible itemization. Which is pretty much the exact opposite of what we have seen in the past 10 years.
Please let me know if I am wrong on any of the above points. As everyone knows this game is not exactly easily learned, even after numerous hours of researching via youtube and wiki's.

If I had known about even two of the above points before I bought it and played awhile I likely would not have, and I have been warning my friends and coworkers who ask. Not out of spite, but to prevent them from the same level of nerd rage I am experiencing at the moment.

 

/rant


B-B-B-But we just need to make some moneyyyy!! It's a living...!!!1

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Posted

100% true and guess what? Fanboys still so dumb that they cant comprehend this aspect of the game.

 

B2p  with f2p stuff with more restrictions and made sure alot of things are inconvenient to the point youll have to rely on the publishers.

 

Why kill the cow for meat when you can milk it and sell the milk over and over. Sure the cow was a gift and the person youre gonna sell the milk is the gift giver of the cow, business is business.

 

 

This game will lose alot of players before the year is over if they keep raising the paywall, and the excuse "we need to make money too" is utter BS because the free 2 play servers are still making profit.and recently someone just mentioned that the KR cash shops not that expensive like wtf? The QQ about thr kr cash shop isnt even related to the game, its related to the 3rd party companies aka conversion of currencies.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I like the game a lot, but do agree the PS item cost might be a tad high.

For Ex. if I dropped an additional 60$ on pearl's after buying the game etc. 

I would think that amount of pearl's would be able to buy me a fair number of thing's including convenience item's as well.

But let's take a look.

 

I get 6,000 Pearls.

I get a an Outfit so I don't look like a peasant scrub. (Just 1 Outfit Combo - 2900 Pearls)

Remaining Balance - 3100 Pearls

I get an additional Pet - (900 Pearls for 1 pet)

Remaining Balance - 2200 Pearls

I then decide to make my mount look cool like everyone else. (Mount Gear Set - 2000 Pearls)

Remaining Balance - 200 Pearls....

 

I wasn't even able to get additional bag space... (8 bag slot's cost 10$... what...)

 

Sure you could say I spent it wrong or whatever... But you literally have to spend 150$ to get even close...

I understand people defending it etc.. But don't let the love for the game blind you. It's MY OPINION that you should be able to buy more for your buck... Because then people would feel like they actually got something, and then ultimately spend more money...

However when you spend an additional 100$ on top of the game in the first month, and are only able to get mostly cosmetic stuff that really isn't amazing at all then idk.

I fully understand they have to make money to continue to run the game, and push out more content along with server/employee cost.

 

Doesn't mean we are all quitting the game. So some of you need to cool it, and ease off the throttle. Or you will seriously chase a lot of people away.

 

 

Edited by Gutted
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Posted

I bought 6 pets, then I discovered thats breeding its not possible yet, what a scam. I bought a game knowing from beta testers, there is huge high end content, but nothing ingame yet. What we have now?

Stupid 2 tiny dungeons as high end content with 2 ppl taking it for them self? I won't invest more money until they add finally what other regions allready have.

Servers are over crowded at any time, they make grind game but all grind spots are crowded, usually everywhere is more ppl then mobs, spawning is slow, mob density is good only on few spots, what a terrible design. Becouse of stupid shared loot system noone wants to group up, except maybe on Catfishmans, everywhere else ppl will pk for their spots.

 

Cash shop is so overpriced its beyond believe 30 euro for vanity costume? Inventory slots only for one char etc. Worst shop prices I ever seen in every game I played.

This game cost 30 euro but then you enter free to play game model.

 

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Posted

You got to realise that eventhough you paid 30$ for this game, it doesn't really entitle you to much. They're still a business, they still bring out tons of content patches that are free.
Offcourse they have to make money out of the cash shop, it's not pay to win. It's just quality of life things. If you don't want to drop 10$ for a pet eventhough you'll play the game tons then I don't know if this is a game you should be playing in the long haul if you'll hate yourself for it.

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Posted

You got to realise that eventhough you paid 30$ for this game, it doesn't really entitle you to much. They're still a business, they still bring out tons of content patches that are free.

As do other companies for less money... there exists such a thing as an objectively "bad business model".

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Posted

You got to realise that eventhough you paid 30$ for this game, it doesn't really entitle you to much. They're still a business, they still bring out tons of content patches that are free.
Offcourse they have to make money out of the cash shop, it's not pay to win. It's just quality of life things. If you don't want to drop 10$ for a pet eventhough you'll play the game tons then I don't know if this is a game you should be playing in the long haul if you'll hate yourself for it.

All other BDOs are F2P with cheaper CS than ours and they get all content for free. Like every F2P game does.

RU pays $3 for a pet and $15 for a costume on top of being F2P. But if those prices were applied to the rest of EU with our B2P they'd go bankrupt?

Please explain how this works.

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Posted

You got to realise that eventhough you paid 30$ for this game, it doesn't really entitle you to much. They're still a business, they still bring out tons of content patches that are free.
Offcourse they have to make money out of the cash shop, it's not pay to win. It's just quality of life things. If you don't want to drop 10$ for a pet eventhough you'll play the game tons then I don't know if this is a game you should be playing in the long haul if you'll hate yourself for it.

Sorry, but it is subjective to say it is not P2W now. The Guille suit clearly provide advantages and change the rule of PvP, then Elion's Tears just scream P2W all over the place.

Now there are those who paid for the game, and those who don't. It is not a big problem in others version since you could buy CS items from AH, but here, you couldn't

You may argue that it is P2W by allowing whales to sell items to AH, but the problem is it is also P2W by allow only paid players to have all the advantages.

Guess what? The free version of this game, only few whales truly are P2W, the rest are just advantages, but here in this version, only people who paid real money get all the advantages and P2W.

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Posted

All other BDOs are F2P with cheaper CS than ours and they get all content for free. Like every F2P game does.

RU pays $3 for a pet and $15 for a costume on top of being F2P. But if those prices were applied to the rest of EU with our B2P they'd go bankrupt?

Please explain how this works.

From my understanding, in the f2p versions, you can sell cash shop items in game, making the players much more likely to buy multiple of items just to sell. Since the NA version you cannot sell these costumes and pets for in game silver, the prices have to be upped a bit to make up for that.

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Posted

I have only been playing for a couple weeks, but have discovered a number of things that have seriously pissed me off. Instead of wall-o-text I will just bullet point:

  • In game armor drops are intentionally drab. Looking at what the NPC's are wearing it is obvious this was a "pearl shop" decision on the developers part
  • You cannot have a visible helmet without a hefty investment in real world cash.
  • There is no area loot system in the game, even though the developers obviously have the skill to do this easily. Your only option to work around this is to buy a cash only pet, although most recommend at least 3. if anyone has the gall to complain about this the fanbois start screaming "go back to <insert other mmo here> if you want easy mode! We hit R a thousand times a minute like REAL men!"
  • did you buy every skill that popped up when you were a new player? Well its $9 per mistake to remedy this, sorry we didn't mention it during the tutorial. Have fun  un-screwing your character!
  • Want a better pet? Well sonny all you have to do is buy two of the same species at $10 a piece, breed them together (losing both because breeding causes death, that makes sense) and maybe if the stars are aligned you will get 1 pet out of it that's one degree high, and a random sex to boot. Care to do the math on how much it would actually cost to get a tier 3 pet?
  • Like pvp? Want in a high end pvp clan? Don't want to shell out $30 for a gille suit? GFL

I know I am shouting into the void here, but letting a developer get away with this kinda crap because the come from a different country where this is acceptable is beyond fanboi. It is absolutely absurd. Why am I bothering to post about this? Because I love the gameplay itself and I REALLY want this game to do well in the western market. It has great mechanics, and horrible itemization. Which is pretty much the exact opposite of what we have seen in the past 10 years.
Please let me know if I am wrong on any of the above points. As everyone knows this game is not exactly easily learned, even after numerous hours of researching via youtube and wiki's.

If I had known about even two of the above points before I bought it and played awhile I likely would not have, and I have been warning my friends and coworkers who ask. Not out of spite, but to prevent them from the same level of nerd rage I am experiencing at the moment.

 

/rant

it's almost a month since game released,it is boring to repeat same stuff,those who made the game got to make some money,stop no life-Ing go get a job to pay them or gtfo till game turns p2w. 

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Posted

From my understanding, in the f2p versions, you can sell cash shop items in game, making the players much more likely to buy multiple of items just to sell. Since the NA version you cannot sell these costumes and pets for in game silver, the prices have to be upped a bit to make up for that.

This is why the put Elion's Tear back in, to make up for lost revenue. Anyone with a brain can see this as essential for PvP and later for World Boss hunt if you want to continue to level.

Not to mention the bosses they put in for lv 55+, so most people got kill by the World Boss in 1 hit K.O.

If you do the math, only need 2 Elion's Tear per person and only 100 person for world boss, that's 1,500,000 dollars per month for NA version alone. However, the problem is people will use more and can up to 10,000.000 with a single CS item. That's lots of profits, nothing generate profits more than consumption CS items.

it's almost a month since game released,it is boring to repeat same stuff,those who made the game got to make some money,stop no life-Ing go get a job to pay them or gtfo till game turns p2w. 

Only stupid people with no sense of money value would stupidly pay whatever the companies want. Smart and rich people only invest in a good investment. The game clearly has few items that P2W in a sense, but you are just too blinded and too gullible. The best kind of customers any companies would want.

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Posted

 

  • Want a better pet? Well sonny all you have to do is buy two of the same species at $10 a piece, breed them together (losing both because breeding causes death, that makes sense) and maybe if the stars are aligned you will get 1 pet out of it that's one degree high, and a random sex to boot. Care to do the math on how much it would actually cost to get a tier 3 pet.

@OP complains about a feature that isn't even in the game yet because it's being revamped.

Stops reading.

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Posted

Only stupid people with no sense of money value would stupidly pay whatever the companies want. Smart and rich people only invest in a good investment. The game clearly has few items that P2W in a sense, but you are just too blinded and too gullible. The best kind of customers any companies would want.

I spent just 50 euros to buy the game some inventory space and a pet,I could live without the pet also,only stupid people buy things that they don't actually need just because they want to compete in terms of the "looks" to others...I played countless hours so for 50 euros I had more playtime than most single player game and I don't have to renew a sub to continue playing.so the problem is more the customer than the game design it self.

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Posted

From my understanding, in the f2p versions, you can sell cash shop items in game, making the players much more likely to buy multiple of items just to sell. Since the NA version you cannot sell these costumes and pets for in game silver, the prices have to be upped a bit to make up for that.

Devs seem to think you can do that in our game aswell (in the interview on the forums they said you can sell dyes on the Market). And I don't really see that as an excuse to ripping us off so hard. More people would buy CS items if the prices were reasonable. Right now they locked 60-70% of Europe out of those since we're going through crisis.

I feel like the only reason they made the AH like that is to lock CS items behind the paywall. Money is very easy to get in BDO, in a week everyone would have all the costumes if you could sell them on AH.

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Posted

This is absolutely false, as I have explained in another post, products are price elastic or, in some cases, inelastic. That's business management 101.

An example of a product with elastic price: Ferrari car. (decrease of 1% of price will increase sales by more than 1%. If 2%, then price elasticity is 2)

An example of a product with inelastic price: Water. (decrease of 1% of price will increase sales by less than 1%. If 0,5%, then price elasticity is 0.5)

Now you say that "selling more items at lower prices is better than selling fewer at higher", you are assuming that the price is elastic (>1)

Do you have some research on the particular sector/target audience/market that indicates that this is the case? Can you share them with us so that we know for sure that if they decreased prices by 30% (costumes for 20€ for instance), sales would increase by MORE than 30%? 

I assume that if they decided on this pricing point, it is because that is the pricing point that maximises the formula: 

Unit price x Units sold = Maximum profit

As you understand, the company's objective is neither to increase Unit price or increase Units sold, their objective is to increase maximum profit so we can assume that this equation is already optimised based on the research they have access to.

 

Price elasticity is precisely what has been commented upon in the past, with them discussing how they believed that they understood it (like you, they thought it was business management 101). Instead, what they discovered was what they thought they knew was not true at all, once they began researching into it.

Probably the most prominent and most wealthy game developer to discuss this would be Gabe Newell. Speaking at the WTIA TechNW panel he specifically brought up what you are discussing, and how the market research he conducted with Steam completely blew that "business management 101" position out of the water. Rather than price elasticity governing revenue, they wound up with a gross revenue increase of 40x (not 40%, 40x). That is an insane amount, so they believed that they were merely shifting future revenue to the present. This turned out to be a false belief, and subsequent trials with the same price slashes resulted in the same trend continuing. The price elasticity position did not ring true.

The same thing has been found by other developers, publishers, and as I mentioned, industry research groups. There is a reason microtransactions have become popular, and that is in effect what a cash shop is. Yet in BDO's case, there is very little "micro" about the transactions.

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Posted

/rant

Plays one of the most well crafted and polished and high quality MMORPG with minimal P2W carried over from KR. Enjoys the game thoroughly for dozens of hours for a measly $30 (at least),...then proceeds to nitpick about how the cash up is set up with unnecessary 1-time purchase cosmetics and convenience items? 

Unbelievable. Some people can never be satisfied.     

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Posted

This game could go incredibly far if they were to greatly tone back the nature of the cash shop. I'm by no means saying they shouldn't sell things. Quite the opposite on that in all honesty. Thing is I think they should stick to cosmetics and at most true convenience items that do not grant anything beyond a shortcut to what is reasonably achievable in-game. 

What we have now is a pretty rough looking cash shop with high prices and a number of items that are seemingly viewed as a requirement for high level play. That is the opposite of how it should be. I should want to buy those because I can, not because I have to (people have been proven to spend more in the scenarios where they don't feel pressured by the way). 

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...one of the most well crafted and polished and high quality MMORPG...

That's objectively not true... sure, it looks pretty, but it's far from well crafted and/or polished...

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