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need clarification Is this game TOTALLY p2w?


68 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Here is a little insight for people who have yet to spend a dime on the game in terms of the cash shop and why the game is strictly hanging on the borderline.

What is Pay 2 Win: At any point if you pay for something that confers a boost/benefit that is not available to another player via in game currency, questing or otherwise you have created more than a Pay 4 Advantage situation. You have created a Pay 2 Win environment.

Are Pets available via ingame means - No! (You get either a cat or dog for logging 5000hrs)

Are Ghillie Suits and Costumes available via ingame means - No! (They give in-game boost upwards of 10%XP boost)

** Mount Kits, Wagon Kits and Boat Kits all confer some benefit that can not be obtained via the in-game methods, faster means to learn skills, transport items, and more.

Where do you get the BiS equipment? Boss Drops! Can you purchase these Boss summon scrolls in the cash shop? Yeah go take a look at that.

Much of BDOs systems revolve around money and who is going to get more money quicker? The player who actually purchases items in the cash shop which are not available ingame.

Pay 2 Win is not about skill. When you are discussing PVP and who can battle whom and win that has little to do with Pay 2 Win, but even in terms of guild wars a Guild who has more Pay 2 Win players can simply outlast a guild who can not afford to sustain that war. Wars cost money in this game. More money means I can wage more wars. It is very real life.

The only reason I do not think it matters in BDO is because there is so much content and explorables that you can roam around and not worry about others and what they are doing and that is why much of the game is being viewed as Pay 2 Advantage until they are forced to interact in the global economy of BDO.

Edited by Darkseid

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Posted (edited)

@Darkseid

I've come to slowly wanna avoid terms like p2w on these forums.

Every discussion, every topic instead of talking about the problem both sides start giving their own percepion of the term leading to an absolutely pointless endeavour.
It has come so far that people wanna take p2w so litteral that they think that laying money on Belsazar's bald head is suppose to complete and win the game or else it's not p2w.
This is the most basic way for this forum to avoid giving solid arguments and it's absolutely cancerous.
The second way is mocking a part of the community cause you couldn't be bothered to think of any good reasons to counter their arguments.

I'd rather see people argue with me over my points given down below than start another pointless forum warrior fight that gives no results.

What I think about the Cash shop:

  • To me and plenty of others it is not worth the money
  • Theres still plenty of items that give an up for discussion advantage

What I think about the ghillie:

  • It's effect is only available through paying cash
  • Using it has no downsides in combat
Edited by Yablo
2 people like this

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Posted

Where do you get the BiS equipment? Boss Drops! Can you purchase these Boss summon scrolls in the cash shop? Yeah go take a look at that.

 I'll have to correct you on that. The only way to buy boss scrolls in the cash shop is with loyalty points.

Loyalty can not be bought with real money. Otherwise this honestly would tip the scale to p2w.

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Posted

Here is a little insight for people who have yet to spend a dime on the game in terms of the cash shop and why the game is strictly hanging on the borderline.

What is Pay 2 Win: At any point if you pay for something that confers a boost/benefit that is not available to another player via in game currency, questing or otherwise you have created more than a Pay 4 Advantage situation. You have created a Pay 2 Win environment.

Are Pets available via ingame means - No! (You get either a cat or dog for logging 5000hrs)

Are Ghillie Suits and Costumes available via ingame means - No! (They give in-game boost upwards of 10%XP boost)

** Mount Kits, Wagon Kits and Boat Kits all confer some benefit that can not be obtained via the in-game methods, faster means to learn skills, transport items, and more.

Where do you get the BiS equipment? Boss Drops! Can you purchase these Boss summon scrolls in the cash shop? Yeah go take a look at that.

Much of BDOs systems revolve around money and who is going to get more money quicker? The player who actually purchases items in the cash shop which are not available ingame.

Pay 2 Win is not about skill. When you are discussing PVP and who can battle whom and win that has little to do with Pay 2 Win, but even in terms of guild wars a Guild who has more Pay 2 Win players can simply outlast a guild who can not afford to sustain that war. Wars cost money in this game. More money means I can wage more wars. It is very real life.

The only reason I do not think it matters in BDO is because there is so much content and explorables that you can roam around and not worry about others and what they are doing and that is why much of the game is being viewed as Pay 2 Advantage until they are forced to interact in the global economy of BDO.

just so you know, those boss scrolls are bought with loyalty points, points you get from logging in daily. Your complaints are duplicates from the same posts of the same people, who complains daily in these forums. Either brainwashed, or just really who you are. I'm glad in-game eu has its server chat running peacefully without people like you :)

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Posted

 I'll have to correct you on that. The only way to buy boss scrolls in the cash shop is with loyalty points.

Loyalty can not be bought with real money. Otherwise this honestly would tip the scale...

I have my server chat disabled, because I cant imagine anything of any value being stated by anyone there. If you play in a Guild then you use TS or something like that. I cant imagine anything else being stated there as being worthwhile hearing because most ignorance comes from those unwilling to actually read @Kanono

"
The only reason I do not think it matters in BDO is because there is so much content and explorables that you can roam around and not worry about others and what they are doing and that is why much of the game is being viewed as Pay 2 Advantage until they are forced to interact in the global economy of BDO."

As you can hopefully read I stated it didnt matter for a reason.

@n1ghty I am sorry I should have went more in depth to explain that I was attempting to give my reason for why the rest of the cash shop Pay 2 Win didnt matter at this point if you are only concerned with describing BDO in terms of P2W as related to 1v1 PVP.

Now once we get to the point where Node Wars and Guild Wars become more relevant and guilds start to control territory then we will see those cash advantages take shape in more profound ways. Notionally, those able to gain money quicker will be able to do better in the game.


 

@Darkseid

I've come to slowly wanna avoid terms like p2w on these forums.

Every discussion, every topic instead of talking about the problem both sides start giving their own percepion of the term leading to an absolutely pointless endeavour.
It has come so far that people wanna take p2w so litteral that they think that laying money on Belsazar's bald head is suppose to complete and win the game or else it's not p2w.
This is the most basic way for this forum to avoid giving solid arguments and it's absolutely cancerous.
The second way is mocking a part of the community cause you couldn't be bothered to think of any good reasons to counter their arguments.

I'd rather see people argue with me over my points given down below than start another pointless forum warrior fight that gives no results.

What I think about the Cash shop:

  • To me and plenty of others it is not worth the money
  • Theres still plenty of items that give an up for discussion advantage

What I think about the ghillie:

  • It's effect is only available through paying cash
  • Using it has no downsides in combat

Yablo I completely agree.

The Cash Shop prices are bad! That Daum actually believes it is fine is disheartening. Especially in terms of the Dyes.

There are too many items that give an advantage. I would be fine with them so long as they could be purchased in game or available via some means in game.

The Ghillie suit to me is only distressing in that it makes no sense without the Flares which is going to be implemented. It is also weird because its one of those costumes and things that just look weirdly out of place in the game environment.

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Posted

 

great.jpg

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Posted

Some villagers in trent actually wear the ghillie casually. Costumes like that and the fishing costume do fit into the lore weirdly enough :P

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Posted

I really wish these threads would just stop.

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Posted

Ghillie does give you an advantage in pvp if it doesn't why so many pvp focused guilds urge their members to go buy one then? You can keep track of enemies cause of their name plates showing when they try to flank in gvg but if they wear ghillies you probably wont even spot em while fighting. Also how do you set priority targets for cc and nuking when you can't tell who I who? It might seem far fetched to call it p2w but denying it gives you an advantage is just a load of crap.

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Posted

Yes, it is P2W, but it's only just meets the threshold.

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Posted

Uh yes it is. Someone first did it in 15 hours and then less time than that.

I think you mean 50 not 55. 

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Posted (edited)

Convenices are not P2w imo.. again when do u people get the word p2w? P2w means u can buy something for real money and directly translate to ingame currency. aka silver. which isnt possible. cause u cannot sell Tears,pets, inventory limit.

Now, that's your opinion isn't it? Your definition of p2w (a.k.a. rmt for high enchanted items or silver) does not apply to BDO at the moment.  However, I did say that these conveniences DO give a player an advantage where he/she will make more silver per hour spent if we don't factor in random drops, etc.  I'm talking about efficiency and afk money making.

Cash shop purchases saves time for a player, which in turn translates to more silver generated and higher chance of gearing up better, faster.  No, a player cannot drop hundreds of dollars and get that highest enchanted weapon/armor.  However, I stated that if you are trying to be competitive, then you'll eventually drop some cash on pearls if you intend to become as efficient as possible per hour spent in the game.

Before someone says, "omg, get a job".... I already spent $300 in this game as I do have a job and I value my time.  Efficiency and less frustration led me to buy shit from the cash shop (and I like the game so far).

Edited by SizzFlair

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Posted

You do realise Daum only ever said that cash shop items would not be able to be sold on the marketplace AT LAUNCH, they never said anything for after the launch phase is complete (however long they consider that to be) IF they had intended for items to never be sold on marketplace at all they would have worded it differently

this is a false assumption.  If they wanted to say that in the future they would have added this feature... then you can complain.  Right now... all they have done is NOT back themselves into a corner with the statement they made.

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Posted

Things you can gain with paying:

A TON of inventory space (or take forever to earn it if possible)

+300 LT weight total

Normal costume (slight buffs all around, at the end of the day they can be a bit of help)

Mount costumes (more buffs)

Ghillie suit (Pvp advantage, easy ambushes)

Extract blackstones

Pets (offer passive benefits, mostly looting, counter ghillie suit I think)

Skills resets and mount resets (You get a couple of these for free)

Dyes (which are impossible to come by atm except by events, otherwise enjoy looking like a peasant unless you buy a costume/tons of RNG dyeboxes)

 

That's all I can recall as i'm not currently logged in and don't plan on being until more content is released.

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Posted

Well... it's good to hear that you can still destroy them. I'd hate a situation where 1 or 2 guilds can dominate everything because of the way the system is set up. In real life, if you get ahead early, you are extremely hard to defeat, if not impossible. This is how we have 1 or 2 major political parties in most countries and how certain lines of business are impossible to get into.

The post is based on flawed reasoning.  The reason you end up with "1 or 2 major political parties" in most countries is because most countries that elect people into positions of power use flawed systems.  The reason countries like the US (for example) only really see Democrats or Republicans is because math ensures that is the only outcome.  We use first past the post which is broken.  

Speaking of people getting setup early, how are AOL, YAHOO, and Compuserv doing these days?  

Thing is, we don't live in a static world and change is involved in every moment whether we like it or not.  Anyone that gets ahead today is going to have to work to stay ahead of the competition or they will eventually be dethroned.  I already see some of this taking place in game.

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Posted (edited)

It's weird how everyone assumes treat costume = godlike stature. 

 

I know it's hard to believe but did you know i actually killed people wearing there treant costumes? I know I'm just as surprised as you are! 

The treant costume will provide little benefit in organized pvp. It wont help you take a castle,  your still limited to the main entrance and the sewer tunnel.  You will still glow BRIGHT pulsing RED for the opposing guild. So unless your brightness and settings are turned way the hell down a red ghillie is a easy to spot ghillie. 

 

Headstart really is the best advantage a guild had, with the point that system and guild quest limit you can only get so strong so quickly, and if you started late, then you will be at a rank and overall power disadvantage due to guild buffs you won't have the points to afford yet. 

Will that make the guilds impossible to beat? To some players and guilds yes. To others no. It really depends on a number of factors. 

Cash shop via marketboard

It's gonna happen.  It's available on every client. It's a huge money maker for the publisher and devs. It won't break the game.  There's only do much you can buy ingame via money. On JP,  I didn't even know what to do with all my silver ingame. Do I spent it on different costumes so I wouldn't get bored of staring at my character. 

 

Theres very few advantage giving items on the cash shop,  the 10% XP on a full costume set us nothing when a mob is giving you 0.002% experience. 

Edited by Boystuff

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Posted

The ghillie suit and weight increase are needed.  The benefit of ghillie suit is to hide your name and guild so people will less likely to pk you.  The weight increase will let you carry more pots and items, and in pvp or siege you will need to carry a ton of pots.  It's a little  bit of pay to win, but it's not much like the other pay to win game where you can spend 500$ to max all your gears.  The costumes give you many benefit, and the 10% exp increase is important in the long run.  It will cost you about 60$ for each character to buy 1 costume and 3 weight increase.  I spent at least 140$ on CS this month, and I am a baby whale

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Posted

Its pay for advantage.

What always means P2W.

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