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Suggestions for Combat, User Interface, Pearl Shop, Trading and Gold Sellers, and Gameplay


19 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

@CM_Jouska

Combat

  • AI Leash - I suggest increasing the range of the AI Leash to at least twice it's current value.  As it stands, I often encounter situations where enemies will attack me, I attack them, move back 5 feet, and they leash.  Normal play with no excessive kiting or fleeing should not result in leashing.  Honestly I despise leashing altogether, I find it to be a cheap shortcut, where better AI programming would do better for the game (See Dungeons and Dragons Online in the early days).

User Interface

  • Accessing Menus - Some of the limitations for accessing menus seem arbitrary.  Example: I cannot browse the Pearl Shop while auto-running on my mount from one town to the other, which seems like an ideal time to allow for this sort of activity.  I also cannot access the map while fishing, or even just holding a fishing pole.

 

  • Editing UI - I enjoy a clean UI, the less clutter the better.  Several of the UI elements cannot be turned off at all.  I really don't like that.  I want to be able to move/turn off any UI I want.  I especially don't want to see the "Got high rank item" UI ever.  I want to be able to turn off the Quickslot bar... Basically anything that can't be moved, I want to be able to move it.  Anything that can't be turned off, I want to be able to turn it off.  Also, the Quest UI, when turned off, will turn itself back on if anything related to quests changes.  I would like that to not happen.  I would also like to be able to edit my UI at any time (such as while mounted).

Pearl Shop

  • Cost / Benefit Analysis - Total Revenue Test  The Relationship Between Price Elasticity & Total Revenue  By reducing the prices of the Pearl Shop items, you will increase sales dramatically, and increase total revenue.  It's a win for you, and a win for players.  Balance this against desired exclusivity of items if there are a small number of options for purchase.  For example, at $29, a small portion of the Black Desert community will purchase 1, maybe 2 outfits (say 20% of the population, I don't know your actual numbers).  If you reduced the price to $5-6 for an outfit, you would see not only more people buying outfits, but people would likely buy outfits for more characters.  You could easily expect to see 80% of the population buying 3 to 4 outfits.  This would apply to all Pearl Shop items.  If you have 100,000 players, and 20,000 of them spend $30 in your Pearl Shop ($600,000), by reducing your prices you could see 80,000 out of 100,000 people spending $30 in your Pearl Shop and not feeling ripped off (That's $2,400,000).  Consider this.

 

  • Armor and Weapon Dye - For new players, learning how to find a dye in the Pearl Inventory, open it, open the pallet, add the dye to the pallet, then open the dye menu, find their dye, and apply it to armor, or remove the dye from the pallet, combine it with another dye, and add that dye to the pallet is a completely obscure process.  I suggest adding a guide video to fully explain the dye system.  Additionally, for the current pricing, the randomization, one time use, and expiration of dyes is completely unacceptable.  I suggest dealing with two of these four: Lower prices, dye selection (partially accomplished already), permanent or increased uses (10 per dye?), no expiration.  Anything less feels like abuse of your player base.

Trading and Gold Sellers

  • Trading with Players - Currently players are unable to help each other through Trading.  I would like the ability to accept materials from my guild mates, and then build them a boat, and give them said boat.  It seems that the only reason this is not possible is because of the effort to combat gold selling.  I feel like this unfairly punishes or adversely affects players who are simply playing the game.  Inter-player trading strengthens the community.  Surely there are other methods to combat economy destabilization by gold selling websites that don't affect normal players.  I suggest making inter-player trading linked to the Trading skill, perhaps Apprentice 2 required (It doesn't make logical, real-world sense, but it makes it harder for Gold Sellers).  Please consider your options.

 

Gameplay

  • Difficulty with Targeting and Evading - Especially noticeable on the huge troll near Epheria.  The enemy is so large that it has melee attacks with greater range than a character's ranged attacks.  The enemy also makes very little noise, and the actual attack effects come at a delay after the attack itself.  It's impossible to know exactly when the attacks occur, making them hard to dodge, as the visual cues are out of sync, there are no audio cues, the range of the attack is not synced with the model, and you have to be so close to it to attack that you can barely see anything.  I suggest increasing the range at which large creatures can be attacked, proportional to their size, sync the attack with the animation, add sound to the attack - both the swing and the impact. 

 

More To Come

  • ...

 

Thank you for your consideration,

Velexia

Edited by Velexia
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Posted (edited)

Overall I like your suggestions, especially in regards to the UI limitations. These are just restrictions with no apparent purpose except to annoy us.

I'd like to consider these as well options for goldsellers and trading limitations. I've posted them around before.

Here is how 1:1 trading should work...
- Your trade partner must be a friend or guild member.
-  (Friends) The market value of how much can be traded is directly tied to the length of time you have been friends with another player. Less than a month maybe 1000 silver per day, 2 months maybe 5000, etc...
- (Guilds) The market value of how much can be traded is directly tied to the length of time both traders have been in the guild. Or more specifically the newest of the two.
- (Party) Can only trade potions/buffs and become player bound.

Preventing Spam

Have keyword filters that block chat message, similar to how offensive words that get censored ****. However in the case of messages identified as containing spam they do not get broadcast to the players at all. For example a spam word would be "bikinipanda.com". Whenever this gets used in a message just prevent anyone from seeing the message. It won't matter if they get new accounts, or VPN... They will also need to start buying domain names, and perhaps even SSL certificates in some cases. I suppose tiny urls could be a work around for them, but the point is there are lots of solutions available besides account chat bans.

 

The bottom line is that this game is basically a single player MMO when it comes to PVE.

 

Anyway, good ideas Velexia. I wish the devs would listen.

 

Edited by centrifugal
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Posted

Some good thoughts here.

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Posted

Overall I like your suggestions, especially in regards to the UI limitations. These are just restrictions with no apparent purpose except to annoy us.

I'd like to consider these as well options for goldsellers and trading limitations. I've posted them around before.

Here is how 1:1 trading should work...
- Your trade partner must be a friend or guild member.
-  (Friends) The market value of how much can be traded is directly tied to the length of time you have been friends with another player. Less than a month maybe 1000 silver per day, 2 months maybe 5000, etc...
- (Guilds) The market value of how much can be traded is directly tied to the length of time both traders have been in the guild. Or more specifically the newest of the two.
- (Party) Can only trade potions/buffs and become player bound.

Preventing Spam

Have keyword filters that block chat message, similar to how offensive words that get censored ****. However in the case of messages identified as containing spam they do not get broadcast to the players at all. For example a spam word would be "bikinipanda.com". Whenever this gets used in a message just prevent anyone from seeing the message. It won't matter if they get new accounts, or VPN... They will also need to start buying domain names, and perhaps even SSL certificates in some cases. I suppose tiny urls could be a work around for them, but the point is there are lots of solutions available besides account chat bans.

 

The bottom line is that this game is basically a single player MMO when it comes to PVE.

 

Anyway, good ideas Velexia. I wish the devs would listen.

 

The chat filter thing is just ....

They use g.o.l.d or g.,.o.,.,l.,.,d or G_O_L_D ... :P you cannot filter that

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Posted

@CM_Jouska

Notice me senpai.

jnpv_1435254168_236100_256.jpg

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Posted

Thank you for putting so much effort into your suggestions, noted.

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Posted

Great summery of the many post floating the forums, and great overview. Nice work :)

I think the energy system could be look upon aswell :) I mean for the one love doing lifestuff, other than fishing.. and why is fishing the only free lifething? I think they tried to hit Harvest Moon playstyle.. but since you cannot insta sleep and reload a new fresh day, the system fall short. You can have an alt though, but still :/

Again greta post!

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Posted (edited)

Great post and very neatly structured suggestions! +1
Topics that I support:

  • ...All of them.
  • - 50% of the price for Cash Shop items. (-€/$3 is a joke)
  • Permanent Dyes. Or no RNG boxes. Pallet.
  • More graphics (video) options.
  • More flexible UI. (I really hate the green bar at the top of the screen)
Edited by Deathwing
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Posted (edited)

Just things that were coming to mind as I played :3

I have more brewing, but I want to post them together.

Edited by Velexia

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Posted (edited)

Combat

  • AI Leash - I suggest increasing the range of the AI Leash to at least twice it's current value.  As it stands, I often encounter situations where enemies will attack me, I attack them, move back 5 feet, and they leash.  Normal play with no excessive kiting or fleeing should not result in leashing.  Honestly I despise leashing altogether, I find it to be a cheap shortcut, where better AI programming would do better for the game (See Dungeons and Dragons Online in the early days).

@Velexia

It seems unlikely they'd totally removed/replace leashing, and while leashing is bad while you're trying to kite an enemy (required for many classes), it's very helpful when you're just pulling incidental aggro while running past an area. It also helps to keep player 'training' of other players at bay.

I would suggest that once a monster has been damaged by a player who they're aggro'd on, it should dramatically increase their leash range for that player, only.

I feel like that's a lighter-weight solution to the problem noted that doesn't break the other cases I mentioned.

Edited by Reithan
typo
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Posted

Good point Reithan.  I am definitely not expecting leashing to go away entirely, but I long for the day when MMO Developers realize that monsters standing around in fields waiting to die is not a requirement for an MMO, it's just literally one step past running in an empty field and the screen fading into a battle.  It was only ever implemented because of technical limitations.  We can do so much better today.

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Posted

As a developer who focuses on AI and wants to work on MMOs, I feel you. :P

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Posted

You bring up dungeons and dragons online leashing and it's important to note that the game is instanced.

 

its also a lag fest over there at the moment. ^^

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Posted (edited)

Another UI Observation (Please add this to your list Velexia)
I noticed recently you can't access the pearl shop while on a boat, I am guessing the same applies to horses(and all mounts)... I literally needed to swim to shore and just to buy the fisher costume. Talk about wasting my time.

Trading
Just noticed the suggestions on tying player trading to trading skill. Is this a new edit? I don't remember seeing that on my first read. Very good idea. (Can you add edit notes to anything that you change in main post)

The only problem I see is that gold sellers generally advertise on different accounts than they use to trade with. So they could have an artisan trader that they use to deliver items with, and only their advertising accounts get banned. As long as there is a way to identify and ban the gold seller accounts I think this idea is a winner. It gives more incentive to level up trading skill.

 

The chat filter thing is just ....

They use g.o.l.d or g.,.o.,.,l.,.,d or G_O_L_D ... :P you cannot filter that

Actually you can... One of my fellow programmers in my office wrote us software that performs text matching based on the sound of words, and we can process thousands of searches per second. I believe he refers to it as phonetic searches. I am a software developer as well, I just haven't worked on this specific application.

For example we may be looking for an address like "10 bayview dr" and a body of text may have "ten bay view drive" and it would find it easily. Adding in special characters or making spelling errors doesn't break it either.

In our scenario it was done this way because users we deal with are fairly incompetent, so this is to fix all their bad data entry. But it could be applied to finding spam.

 

Edited by centrifugal
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Posted

You bring up dungeons and dragons online leashing and it's important to note that the game is instanced.

 

its also a lag fest over there at the moment. ^^

It's not that important to note that the game was instanced, because how you pulled enemies around affected the entire server regardless.  Currently they have a system which was inspired by new developers (they fired all of their old staff) which does create awful lag situations.  They also have leashing in certain areas now, and it's terrible.  The current state of DDO is nothing like it was at launch.  I quit the game because of the new direction it was taken (about a year to half a year after it went free to play), I quit so hard I will never go back (I gave away every item I had, and destroyed the gear I had made, so I would never be tempted to return),

Leashing tends to happen when the developer would rather have a quick and easy solution, than program real AI.  For example, if you don't want to deal with players shooting your mobs safely from a distance, you can do what World of Warcraft does, and make them become invincible... Or you can do what DDO did, and have them fire back, or seek cover.  Whether or not the game is instanced doesn't matter.  If you don't want to deal with players luring your mobs into places they were never meant to be, you can do what many MMOs do, and have them instantly recover to full health, and rush back to their invisible fence, or you can have them lose interest, then, if they get hit with a ranged attack, they can fall back on their ranged attack behavior when their give chase behavior is not an option in their repertoire.  So a melee mob may give chase, lose interest, and then seek cover.  Solutions like these always exist.  It's up to the developer to take the easy, unimmersive, annoying way out, or design a feature that will improve the game.

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Posted

Actually you can...

Additionally, most spam filters for email use NN algorithms such as LSTM to match text that 'looks like' spam.

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Posted

I want to +1 pretty much everything in this thread.  The only other thing I have to add would be, in the realm of player trade, maybe they could enable trade only if you have been friends or guild members with someone for 14 days or more.  You'd still rely on marketplace for selling to strangers, but at least helping friends would be simple, not to mention this would slow down gold-sellers.  Could probably even have something in place to monitor for people trading and then immediately defriending someone, if you're still worried about gold-sellers.  Even more effective if the friends list has a cap.

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Posted

It's not that important to note that the game was instanced, because how you pulled enemies around affected the entire server regardless.  Currently they have a system which was inspired by new developers (they fired all of their old staff) which does create awful lag situations.  They also have leashing in certain areas now, and it's terrible.  The current state of DDO is nothing like it was at launch.  I quit the game because of the new direction it was taken (about a year to half a year after it went free to play), I quit so hard I will never go back (I gave away every item I had, and destroyed the gear I had made, so I would never be tempted to return),

Leashing tends to happen when the developer would rather have a quick and easy solution, than program real AI.  For example, if you don't want to deal with players shooting your mobs safely from a distance, you can do what World of Warcraft does, and make them become invincible... Or you can do what DDO did, and have them fire back, or seek cover.  Whether or not the game is instanced doesn't matter.  If you don't want to deal with players luring your mobs into places they were never meant to be, you can do what many MMOs do, and have them instantly recover to full health, and rush back to their invisible fence, or you can have them lose interest, then, if they get hit with a ranged attack, they can fall back on their ranged attack behavior when their give chase behavior is not an option in their repertoire.  So a melee mob may give chase, lose interest, and then seek cover.  Solutions like these always exist.  It's up to the developer to take the easy, unimmersive, annoying way out, or design a feature that will improve the game.

It is untrue that instances affect the entire server. They do affect other instances (maybe), since the architecture is such that many quests are held on one instance. (E.x., if you get outside the marketplace you can walk to "Siegebreaker" but not eveningstar.) However, I know that zones are delineating --> you can't see someone in a different zone if you get onto the "skyplane." 

I think you're exaggerating how intelligent ddo AI is. Perching is very common in that game. When mobs do range you, it is often for very little damage.

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Posted

It is untrue that instances affect the entire server.

Incorrect.  You must not have understood the context.  If say, you were to run through the Rainbow instance, pulling every single enemy, the server has increased load.  If many people do it, the entire server suffers from the increased load.  Turbine's answer to this was a backhanded punishment.  It does work to prevent that behavior, but not in a good way. 

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