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Maybe BDO isn't for you.

61 posts in this topic

Posted

Regarding my statements below, I am in no way saying this about everyone on these forums. I'm simply talking about the feelings i have after reading these forums for quite some time. There are a few posters i find extremely intelligent and I have no wish to offend them.

The theme in this forum has largely been about players trying to turn BDO into their dream game. The most common way is by changing features or styles of play they don't enjoy to get exactly what they want. I can only assume they don't give a damn about the consequences to others resulting from their requests and complaints.

What pisses me off is that many players seem to think a game, thus BDO, can't be good without a large population or popularity. These players seem to feel they are part of that group so what is best for them, is best for everyone. The obvious advantage I see is revenue. More players means more dollars which equals more content, it's pretty simple. But if everything in existence was designed specifically for the majority the world would suck even more than it does now. This would marginalize any person who enjoys something different or isn't popular. 

I don't care to discuss the possibility of games that try catering to everyone. They are obviously more difficult to achieve because it requires a lot more man power and money to do so, at least at a level of quality every type of player will enjoy. Nor do they drive evolution in gaming with watered down or common features. Finding the correct balance between quality and quantity based on a budget is something every developer wrestles with. This means features either don't exist or don't suit specific players in each and every game.

I'd like to think everyone on these forums realizes Black Desert will never be for everyone. A common theme from many players is they like only parts of BDO. Among these players some can accept the game and focus on what they enjoy. Others try to change the parts they don't like. I could draw some parallels to real life but i'll leave that for someone else.

What I want to know is:

  1. Why is your missing feature or want, more important than someone else's feature already in game? 
  2. Why should the developers target you as an audience instead of the current audience?
  3. What is wrong with a game that exists only to be fully enjoyed by a specific audience that isn't yourself?

 

My answers:

  1. None of my wants are more important than another's. I try to stick to adjusting the balance of existing features only. Pearl Abyss has shown they can create good content without my help.
  2. The developers should target whatever audience they want. It's their game and their creation.
  3. I play Black Desert for what it is, not what i want it to be. When what BDO is, isn't for me, i'll move on.
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Posted

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Posted (edited)

The only "feature"  of the game I actually have a beef with its the complete lack of ingame armour variety and the terrible customization systems. Why? Because every MMO I've ever played,  beta tested or trialed in the last 12 years was nowhere near this bad.  It blows my mind that an MMO came out in 2016 with so little in that regard. 

My other beef is the cash shop prices and the buffs on CS items,  but I don't consider the monetization scheme to be a "feature".

Edited by Gungan
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Posted

I agree, cater only to those that enjoy the game for what it is regardless of how many people may leave.

How's Wildstar going again? 

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Posted

A Gladiatorial Arena with 'relatively' equalized gear, greater cosmetic choices (gear, hairs, etc.), and reduced +16-20 stats boosts is all I want. I don't think any of these intrude on anyone else's desires... unless they're hellbent on pushing other players towards their definition of "playing the game."

Discussion of what people would like to be changed shouldn't be stopped, because that would just invite complacency; people won't want to speak up when a big issue does popup. Discussion also beings awareness of problems the changes could cause, and ways to address those, and so on. That said, discussion won't happen when people shut each other down with a simple "No" or insult, which happens a lot. Compromises and exploring hypotheticals are pretty difficult tasks... and that doubles when doing it on the internet.

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Posted (edited)

I agree, cater only to those that enjoy the game for what it is regardless of how many people may leave.

How's Wildstar going again? 

So one extreme or the other.  Seems reasonable.  Not like we can make compromises that draw in more players while maintaining the integrity of the game.  Nahhhh.

Edited by Anemone
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Posted

1. The ability to give items to guildmates, or at least the guild to use to further guild activities. Say give wood to the guild to be able to make a guild boat for us to fish on for gathering quests.

2. I think they have targeted me, I'm enjoying the he'll out of this game. :)

3. Prefaced by #2 I will say that the game needs to maintain a certain level of profitability to stay open. It needs to attract enough people to be profitable. In that vein it needs to appeal to both current players and future players, if they only do what they want they could drive off enough players to damage revenue enough to make the game insolvent. It's important to listen to your players, it's also important to know when not to as well. You must not ignore your customers or they will become someone else's. Now , I'm like you OP, I adapt to what there is, but some people have some great ideas that could really improve the game, while others are trash tier. I won't say I'm smart enough to decipher which is which, I just hope the Devs are. There's a delicate balance to developing and listening to customers, and it must be maintained so we can continue to enjoy BDO, I for one hope the Devs are up to it so I can enjoy this game for a long time. :) I say it's ok to only appeal to a certain group, so long as that group is big enough to support the game financially, that is the most important thing for DAUM.

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Posted

A Gladiatorial Arena with 'relatively' equalized gear, greater cosmetic choices (gear, hairs, etc.), and reduced +16-20 stats boosts is all I want. I don't think any of these intrude on anyone else's desires... unless they're hellbent on pushing other players towards their definition of "playing the game."

Discussion of what people would like to be changed shouldn't be stopped, because that would just invite complacency; people won't want to speak up when a big issue does popup. Discussion also beings awareness of problems the changes could cause, and ways to address those, and so on. That said, discussion won't happen when people shut each other down with a simple "No" or insult, which happens a lot. Compromises and exploring hypotheticals are pretty difficult tasks... and that doubles when doing it on the internet.

I have no problem with arenas the way you described. Features that ADD to the game without hurting others are fantastic. The trouble is all the requests that don't meet that criteria imo.

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Posted

Thank you OP I am now convinced.

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Posted

Regarding my statements below, I am in no way saying this about everyone on these forums. I'm simply talking about the feelings i have after reading these forums for quite some time. There are a few posters i find extremely intelligent and I have no wish to offend them.

The theme in this forum has largely been about players trying to turn BDO into their dream game. The most common way is by changing features or styles of play they don't enjoy to get exactly what they want. I can only assume they don't give a damn about the consequences to others resulting from their requests and complaints.

What pisses me off is that many players seem to think a game, thus BDO, can't be good without a large population or popularity. These players seem to feel they are part of that group so what is best for them, is best for everyone. The obvious advantage I see is revenue. More players means more dollars which equals more content, it's pretty simple. But if everything in existence was designed specifically for the majority the world would suck even more than it does now. This would marginalize any person who enjoys something different or isn't popular. 

I don't care to discuss the possibility of games that try catering to everyone. They are obviously more difficult to achieve because it requires a lot more man power and money to do so, at least at a level of quality every type of player will enjoy. Nor do they drive evolution in gaming with watered down or common features. Finding the correct balance between quality and quantity based on a budget is something every developer wrestles with. This means features either don't exist or don't suit specific players in each and every game.

I'd like to think everyone on these forums realizes Black Desert will never be for everyone. A common theme from many players is they like only parts of BDO. Among these players some can accept the game and focus on what they enjoy. Others try to change the parts they don't like. I could draw some parallels to real life but i'll leave that for someone else.

What I want to know is:

  1. Why is your missing feature or want, more important than someone else's feature already in game? 
  2. Why should the developers target you as an audience instead of the current audience?
  3. What is wrong with a game that exists only to be fully enjoyed by a specific audience that isn't yourself?

 

My answers:

Hidden Content

BDO is a vast and beautiful world.  I stepped into it with a rudimentary knowledge of what it was intended to be and saw enough to make me want to be there.  Now that I am in the world I take it pretty much as I do the real world.  It is what it is.  Life changes constantly and so will this game.  Aside from hoping they fix bugs and ban exploiters (if there are any) I can find a million things in game to do so I really don't see asking for more stuff this early on.

If I wake up tomorrow and my class has completely changed or fishing is totally different... I'll adapt like I do to life changes.  Games are for fun and I'm having it even if I can think of things I would like, I'm good for now.

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Posted

 

3. Prefaced by #2 I will say that the game needs to maintain a certain level of profitability to stay open. It needs to attract enough people to be profitable. In that vein it needs to appeal to both current players and future players, if they only do what they want they could drive off enough players to damage revenue enough to make the game insolvent. It's important to listen to your players, it's also important to know when not to as well. You must not ignore your customers or they will become someone else's. Now , I'm like you OP, I adapt to what there is, but some people have some great ideas that could really improve the game, while others are trash tier. I won't say I'm smart enough to decipher which is which, I just hope the Devs are. There's a delicate balance to developing and listening to customers, and it must be maintained so we can continue to enjoy BDO, I for one hope the Devs are up to it so I can enjoy this game for a long time. :) I say it's ok to only appeal to a certain group, so long as that group is big enough to support the game financially, that is the most important thing for DAUM.

Trading is one of the biggest additions that will ruin the game for others.

All of the things you mention in #3 are possibilities. There is not much we can do besides hope there are enough players who enjoy BDO as it is to sustain its future. I think creating the content you want as a developer comes before creating what you think will sell.

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Posted

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Posted

So one extreme or the other.  Seems reasonable.  Not like we can make compromises that draw in more players while maintaining the integrity of the game.  Nahhhh.

Not sure if  you're aware of Wildstar's development progress, but they did the same thing. Made earlier dungeons easier, made leveling easier, made the attunement process significantly easier and yet, it never recovered. 

 

As for the OP, I fail to see what's wrong with presenting feedback. Daum already changed the game for the worse since the beta by removing complexity to cater to mobile gamers, the game isn't true to its original vision nor will it ever be, but a lot of the suggested ideas I've seen wouldn't impede on the enjoyment of others and yet people treat the ideas as if they would be the death of the game. An equalized area, for example, in what way would that impede on an open world PvPers enjoyment, in what way would more complex bosses impede on your enjoyment? Why are people not allowed to express these suggestions? 

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Posted

BDO is a vast and beautiful world.  I stepped into it with a rudimentary knowledge of what it was intended to be and saw enough to make me want to be there.  Now that I am in the world I take it pretty much as I do the real world.  It is what it is.  Life changes constantly and so will this game.  Aside from hoping they fix bugs and ban exploiters (if there are any) I can find a million things in game to do so I really don't see asking for more stuff this early on.

If I wake up tomorrow and my class has completely changed or fishing is totally different... I'll adapt like I do to life changes.  Games are for fun and I'm having it even if I can think of things I would like, I'm good for now.

We need more players like you in game. :x

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Posted

*Yawn* oh hi OP. This again?

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Posted

but a lot of the suggested ideas I've seen wouldn't impede on the enjoyment of others and yet people treat the ideas as if they would be the death of the game. 

Then we have different opinions on those ideas.

*Yawn* oh hi OP. This again?

*Yawn* haven't you quit yet?

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Posted

Not sure if  you're aware of Wildstar's development progress, but they did the same thing. Made earlier dungeons easier, made leveling easier, made the attunement process significantly easier and yet, it never recovered.

I didn't play Wildstar, but TERA also went down a similar path.  Those changes you mentioned are ones I would consider harmful to the integrity of the game, though I suppose that boils down to matters of opinion.  Adding more non-cash costume options is a change I would consider non-harmful to BDO, for example.

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Oh yay the local forum anti-Semite, don't you have some bad Jewish jokes to be making right about now?

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Posted

So one extreme or the other.  Seems reasonable.  Not like we can make compromises that draw in more players while maintaining the integrity of the game.  Nahhhh.

which we will never get because everything will continue to be catered to koreans.

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I think a lot of the things people don't like are the things that have been changed from the Korean version, as it stands almost everybody i know who got this game has stopped playing already because there's near no social element, Maybe they will come back when gvg becomes a real thing but I doubt it.

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Posted

which we will never get because everything will continue to be catered to koreans.

Actually in that stream a while back Jouska mentioned that PA might consider creating content for US/EU if there is enough interest from other regions as well.  I mean in practice you're probably right, but at least they said they're open to it.

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which we will never get because everything will continue to be catered to koreans.

There's always the possibility our market will dwarf KR to the point Pearl Abyss might look to us first. I can dream right?

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Oh yay the local forum anti-Semite, don't you have some bad Jewish jokes to be making right about now?

you didn't spam eggs enough! Haven't you farmed 10k life eggs yet?

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Posted

Actually in that stream a while back Jouska mentioned that PA might consider creating content for US/EU if there is enough interest from other regions as well.  I mean in practice you're probably right, but at least they said they're open to it.

Right, so if Russia and KR want something westerners want we will get it,  which is almost nothing, ever. 

 

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you didn't spam eggs enough! Haven't you farmed 10k life eggs yet?

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Lmao

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