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Why are Wizards so addicted to AP? Defensive AP Support Option.

156 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I currently have three 50's including a Wizard, and a 52 (almost 53 Giant).   As a Giant main, I look and I see every Wizard stacking AP mindlessly like it's heroin.  In group PvP, every giant or disabling class will be coming after you, and if they land a grab, you are going to die.

Every class in the game can do damage.  You say "our AOE damage" and I say Rangers.  Wizards shine in that they have the best AoE knockdowns, utility, and support spells period.  Meteor can do 0 damage, and be a great spell because of it's status effect.  Same with lightning.  

At this moment you can pick up a (PRI: Shrine Guardian) +7 DP +30 hp ring for 400k, and if you were to buy a  (PRI: Mark of Shadows) +7 AP ring it'd cost about 25 mil+.   You can kit out a 180-200DP kit relatively cheap, and you'd be extremely difficult to kill with mana shield (almost impossible) and very hard to kill without it up.  Your heals do not scale with AP, so you're going to be very, very effective at wasting your opponent's time due to teleport, freeze, and other defensive options. 

Sure, you won't be the Arena champion, and you won't win any 1v1s (you won't lose any either).  But this is a guild/group based game, and the Wizards that go down the DP road may be very underestimated and effective than people think, with a LOT more cash in their pockets to upgrade in Mediah.  

Are there any 53s+ who have a DP based support build and are planning on using status effects, utility, and heals to be a force multiplier instead of praying to get two spells off before dying?  I'd like to hear from you.  

If you do go the DP route you will also likely have 100+ mil for Mediah that you wouldn't have had.   Does anyone have any objections, and if not, why isn't this option talked about more?

We're all theorycrafting at this stage, but I'd much, much prefer a 180dp/90ap Wizard in my 5 man compared to a 180ap/90dp, because a dead teammate does me no good.  Then again, I started playing my Wizard because of their healing abilities specifically, not their damage, but unfortunately fell in love with my Giant.

Edited by CNV2855
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Posted

Damn Daniel...How you gonna have 3 50's and a 52 less than a month in...

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Damn Daniel...How you gonna have 3 50's and a 52 less than a month in...

24/7 grind for 2-3 weeks

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Can certainly say I practice those methods. Naturally still trying to gear up but like you said the DP path is pretty cheap. I'm still level 50 but what you describe is pretty much how I built the class, only fought 1 tank wizard in arena so far too (your idea isn't too silly.) I like it 'cuz a fair portion of people out gear me(in the arena anyways) but at the end of the fight they often go "what's your DP?", "how much DP?", stuff like that generally. Usually giving a combined number to hide the intricacy. Most of my losses come from advantaged wiz/wic but overall in 1v1 my performance is well, albeit longer matches. My few valk matches ended with draws so far.

It's even helped in OWPVP when some ranger tried to kill me. Didn't fight back since the damage of the first shot already told me it was a losing battle. Got hit several times but escaped with only a number of sc-----s and bruises. Would've been dead had my setup been more conventional. When the going gets tough, the tough gets going!

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Posted

I am highly interested in how this actually plays out.  I like the idea of being more support,  better. 

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latest?cb=20130824200436

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I main a witch and am currently a fresh level 50 with 87AP and 129DP.
I've mostly been practicing with my guild in arenas and have had a few open world encounters but I'm enjoying a defensive build.

I still pack a punch because I have enough skill points to get the big hitters but I've yet to lose a fight, and even when my opponent gets the upper hand, I have time to kite and heal before he can do enough damage to kill me.

Not lost to a ranger yet either which was my biggest worry in pvp.

Sure, I'll kill things a little slower than the next witch or wizard, but I'll still be in the fights when they're running back from nodes.
And I can always work on a second set of gear for AP if needed once I finish my current set.

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I'm very tempted to try this as well. I don't find myself surviving very long in fights as is, and grouping with my Sorc friend 95% of the time I play he could be the damage factor. Does anyone have a list of what the best DP items to go would be? I already have full Taritas, and wonder if I would just need to gem a little differently as I guess going a DP build would mean crit gems probably wouldn't be needed. 

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Posted (edited)

I'm very tempted to try this as well. I don't find myself surviving very long in fights as is, and grouping with my Sorc friend 95% of the time I play he could be the damage factor. Does anyone have a list of what the best DP items to go would be? I already have full Taritas, and wonder if I would just need to gem a little differently as I guess going a DP build would mean crit gems probably wouldn't be needed. 

It really depends on how much you want your defensive capabilities to be. Here are thr gems socket to my armor

Helm - [Ancient Magic Crystal Harphia x2] Casting speed is kinda important so might need 1 slot for it. HP+50, HP Recover + 5
Armor - [Ancient Magic Crystal Cobelinus] Fair choice IMO. HP+100, Weight Limit +20LT
Glove - [Ancient Crystal of Infinity Sturdiness] Grapple Resist +10%. I also have a optional necklace (+20%) for that too.
Shoe - [Ancient Magic Crystal of Nature + Abundance Armor] KD resist 25%. The abundance armor is a temporary for broken 10% knock-back crystal during world boss.

I don't know how much you care about resists but manashield can help bring up some low-hanging fruit. Running full Taritas I think you would benefit more from HP gems where you can. Shrine Guardian Token and Rhutum Belt are a good start for accessories as well. 

Level 50 [lv16 Health]: No gear 883 HP --> 1563/1040 HP/MP without guild bonuses. My glove and shoe choices are a bit questionable with resists but it's whatever. If anything keep cast speed up and you're golden.

Edited by Enumeratingw7
Trying to make gold.... gold?
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It really depends on how much you want your defensive capabilities to be. Here are thr gems socket to my armor

Helm - [Ancient Magic Crystal Harphia x2] Casting speed is kinda important so might need 1 slot for it. HP+50, HP Recover + 5
Armor - [Ancient Magic Crystal Cobelinus] Fair choice IMO. HP+100, Weight Limit +20LT
Glove - [Ancient Crystal of Infinity Sturdiness] Grapple Resist +10%. I also have a optional necklace (+20%) for that too.
Shoe - [Ancient Magic Crystal of Nature + Abundance Armor] KD resist 25%. The abundance armor is a temporary for broken 10% knock-back crystal during world boss.

I don't know how much you care about resists but manashield can help bring up some low-hanging fruit. Running full Taritas I think you would benefit more from HP gems where you can. Shrine Guardian Token and Rhutum Belt are a good start for accessories as well. 

Level 50 [lv16 Health]: No gear 883 HP --> 1563/1040 HP/MP without guild bonuses. My glove and shoe choices are a bit questionable with resists but it's whatever. If anything keep cast speed up and you're golden.

Are you using 2x Shrine Guardian Tokens? What earrings and necklace are you using? (I already have a Rhutum belt, are you using a PRI one?). What's your AP/DP with all that? I was thinking of keeping the +2 movement speed gem in my boots. I'm going to reforge my Yuria Staff to Cast Speed and leave the +2 Cast Speed in my Helm. Probably get rid of all my crit gems and resocket according to what you have otherwise.

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Posted (edited)

Are you using 2x Shrine Guardian Tokens? What earrings and necklace are you using? (I already have a Rhutum belt, are you using a PRI one?). What's your AP/DP with all that? I was thinking of keeping the +2 movement speed gem in my boots. I'm going to reforge my Yuria Staff to Cast Speed and leave the +2 Cast Speed in my Helm. Probably get rid of all my crit gems and resocket according to what you have otherwise.

Didn't intend on posting my full spec because it's kinda up to you for how much DP/AP you want. Not to forget I think accuracy is a VERY important stat.

Sadly I'm poor so using PRI Talis for necks and earrings (if you have better stuff might as well keep them.) I keep a "Blood Ruby Necklace" for +20 grapple resist which also comes with free 3 AP. 2x Shrine Guardian Tokens (failed making one PRI, dunno the recommended failstack but +4 didn't work.)

With gems just kinda keep what you wanna keep. Crystal of Abundance (+1/+2) can be socketed anywhere, though if you have your chest free then definitely get Cobelinus. I'm skeptical to say my independent AP/DP but it's 214 combined (eww.....) so still got a ways to go. Against an opponent of equivalent gear it's pretty hard to lose. Admittedly a valk almost killed me but "Healing Lighthouse" and back at square one.

EDIT: Your skills can also make a difference too!
 

Edited by Enumeratingw7
Additional Statement.

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I'm also looking at the defensive style Witch play. Just hit 51. And running mostly DP. Trying to find a good source of skills to max out on while still being able to put out some minor damage. It reminds me of supports in league of legends. They usually run locket of iron solari and some other defensive items. If you die to fast, you ain't even a factor. So no glass cannons. Usually I am trying to add to the utility. In 5 man groups and guild wars. A utility witch/wizard can be tremendous. I think maybe glass cannon witch/wizards would have to play back, be on castle walls and defending chokes. I could see them shining great there. Or with great CC teammates also. I am definitely going to keep up with this post. Put as much input in as I can. Always been a healer/support player. So you have to think differently in a game like this. 

Also like to point out. I run taritas helmet and chest. While agerian gloves and boots. They give you 120 extra HP and MP. You get casting speed with the gloves. Movement speed with the boots. Not sure if that is the better route. 

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Posted (edited)

I am highly interested in how this actually plays out.  I like the idea of being more support,  better. 

Done/do it.
It works.

40% decrease of damage ontop of stacked dp = very hard to kill teleporter.

Edited by War

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Posted (edited)

It's ironic that I made this post and I'm a Berserker.  They're from observations I have made from playing this game.  Since I have a Liverto and can run an Oros Knot, I have very high AP and just mow down standard spec Wizards.  Then there are some who just will. not. die. 

Our five-man grind group ran into a Wizard the other night, and me and another Berserker were taking turns picking him up and holding him... One or two of the Rangers were too low in Karma to flag, but even so...being in an almost endless grab CC chain the guy lasted a good minute or so.  Can't comment on his DP other than he was very good at evading.  We'd get a hold of him eventually, but even with several- six grab attempts (minus desyncs) in a row he didn't drop until running us halfway across Shrine.

 

 

Recruited a 51/52 Wizard the other day, and when asked he said he didn't even have Healing Lighthouse.  Said it sucked and was a waste of points.  That was a wee bit awkward.  And do not underestimate Speed.  You have no idea how much it helps other classes.

Edited by CNV2855

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Yes but I don't play female characters so no ranger for me. 

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It's ironic that I made this post and I'm a Berserker.  They're from observations I have made from playing this game.  Since I have a Liverto and can run an Oros Knot, I have very high AP and just mow down standard spec Wizards.  Then there are some who just will. not. die. 

Our five-man grind group ran into a Wizard the other night, and me and another Berserker were taking turns picking him up and holding him... One or two of the Rangers were too low in Karma to flag, but even so...being in an almost endless grab CC chain the guy lasted a good minute or so.  Can't comment on his DP other than he was very good at evading.  We'd get a hold of him eventually, but even with several- six grab attempts (minus desyncs) in a row he didn't drop until running us halfway across Shrine.

 

 

Recruited a 51/52 Wizard the other day, and when asked he said he didn't even have Healing Lighthouse.  Said it sucked and was a waste of points.  That was a wee bit awkward.  And do not underestimate Speed.  You have no idea how much it helps other classes.

To be fair it probably is lackluster until you max it out.

 

I've thought of trying the DP build, but with more experience now I don't feel the need as I can last a long time even in group fights with similarly geared players.

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Posted (edited)

To be fair it probably is lackluster until you max it out.

 

I've thought of trying the DP build, but with more experience now I don't feel the need as I can last a long time even in group fights with similarly geared players.

A lot of people are just now hitting 50, won't be 53-55 by sieges, and/or don't have the time to farm the 100-200 mil it takes to be as geared as us.

Pure DP is the economical choice.  Not only that, you have the choice of offhands/accessories and if you were to fully invest in DP you could go higher than 200 and be a REAL pain in the ass.

Edited by CNV2855
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This is what I planned on doing with my Wizard. I'm glad its not a bad idea.

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A lot of people are just now hitting 50, won't be 53-55 by sieges, and/or don't have the time to farm the 100-200 mil it takes to be as geared as us.

Pure DP is the economical choice.  Not only that, you have the choice of offhands/accessories and if you were to fully invest in DP you could go higher than 200 and be a REAL pain in the ass.

It's economical and definitely not a bad choice, but if you have the ability to go over 200 I see no reason why you couldn't be around 115/140+ with the same effort/economy. That's with a Yuria staff. It's also not going to help you grind faster especially with the best spots being mobs that are basically mini-elites.

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Posted (edited)

My friends

 

I'm a bit new but extremely attracted to the style of play in OP's post. With that said, much of the gear talk makes sense to me but I just wonder how your skill build might look as a more defensive/support wizard.

Which skills should I invest in that a full AP wizard might not?

 

Thanks for your input!

Edited by boogersugar

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I don't know the skills exactly, but healing aura, healing lighthouse, speed, and circle of protection are no-brainers.  Then you want things like Sage's Research, Mind Training, and other personal utility spells.  You also want to prioritize survivability spells such as teleport and mana shield! 

Finally pick out spells for their status effects, NOT damage.  

Meteor for example offers an AoE knockdown, Residual Lightning an AoE stun?  Freeze?  Basically anything that will effect your opponent's character and prevent him from putting out or preventing damage, kind of like Soraka's silence or Nami's wave.  

And most importantly, learn how to combo and combine them.  Develop your playstyle to incorporate everything into a character that can heal, buff, shield, freeze, stun, knockdown opponent's when they are needed most.

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Posted (edited)

Yup, started going this route. Calculated I could get to 170 DP fairly easy, and then if I wanted I could swap out my steel dagger for a parrying dagger and get even higher. So I'm dedicated to going this route, and just wish I had more time until Mediah comes out. Picked up a PRI Talis Necklace and a Shrine Token last night. Just need to get another Shrine Token, and then plan on buying 2xDuo Talis Earrings. Already have an Elite Rhutum Belt, all that alone will give me +28 DP. I'm already at 120 DP from Armor, and once all my armor is +15 I should at least be at 140 DP or higher. So I should be looking at a good 170+DP.

My only issue is getting enough skill points to get all the ranks of shield in a timely manner. I'll pick up the protected area eventually as well, but a little more worried about getting the personal shield maxed.

I might refund 2 ranks of lightning chain (down to first rank), and keep Lightning Storm and just use those points to put into shield...

Edited by Moira

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This sounds interesting. Would Heve armor be worth it then for the HP bonus? Our heals scale on percents so the large increase in HP seems worth it. 

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I'll leave that to theorycrafters but you can get around 2,000 HP by 55 if you gem/gear for it.

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My friends

 

I'm a bit new but extremely attracted to the style of play in OP's post. With that said, much of the gear talk makes sense to me but I just wonder how your skill build might look as a more defensive/support wizard.

Which skills should I invest in that a full AP wizard might not?

 

Thanks for your input!

If you're going full DP you're probably going to want to max out your healing abilities. Make sure you don't neglect Magical Evasion and Teleport either. Speed Spell is a good thing to have and pretty much the rest is up to you.

This sounds interesting. Would Heve armor be worth it then for the HP bonus? Our heals scale on percents so the large increase in HP seems worth it. 

Heve also has 2 gem slots so it's a good option. I use Heve Helm and Heve Boots, though the Helm is quite expensive now. You're right about the heals as well.

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