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Conqueror's Pack Horse

844 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

All i'm seeing right now is a whole lotta salt.

Let me get my drink

.ou guys got your answer.  They have your money.  Whales will supply the rest because instead of -----ing about things that are minor time-savers (I have 4 t5 horses i'm currently training and breeding, My guildies have T6's and they spent minimal time on it) you could actually be playing the game and getting ahead.

Or is that what this is all about?  You lost your horse advantage to keep ahead of something that doesn't actually quite matter in the game aside from getting to point a to point b faster?

Shame.  *sip*

 

This is one of those toxic posts that adds nothing of value to a thread. 

As far as you having four tier 5s and your buddies having T6s and your suggestion that 'we' could actually be playing the game and getting ahead, most of us are still playing the game AND many of us have multiple tier 5 and 6 horses, but this is not the point so go troll elsewhere. 

edit: Oh look, just glanced at your activity, many replies mention salt (bet you overused the 'you mad bro' too for a while), forum warriors, and there is very little productivity- surprise! lmao

 

 

Edited by realistic1

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Posted

All i'm seeing right now is a whole lotta salt.

Let me get my drink

.BDOTears.thumb.png.fd5d22b3f777266a50d3b

You guys got your answer.  They have your money.  Whales will supply the rest because instead of -----ing about things that are minor time-savers (I have 4 t5 horses i'm currently training and breeding, My guildies have T6's and they spent minimal time on it) you could actually be playing the game and getting ahead.

Or is that what this is all about?  You lost your horse advantage to keep ahead of something that doesn't actually quite matter in the game aside from getting to point a to point b faster?

Shame.  *sip*

What makes you think we're not playing the game because we're posting on forums? Right now my main is procing some stuff to make me another 10mil. As I already stated before in this thread, the problem here is much larger than a disposable horse not being delivered as advertised. The main issue here is that Daum acknowledged they screwed up and refused to do anything to correct the screw up. What's more, they outright lied to us saying stats are better while the screenshot they themselves provided shows they're not. You must be really short-sighted if you think all this commotion is because of a single mid-tier horse. If players don't stand their ground now, today it's a horse, tomorrow it's going to be something way more serious and, believe me, you'll be the one complaining just as well then.

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Posted

The main issue here is that Daum acknowledged they screwed up and refused to do anything to correct the screw up. What's more, they outright lied to us saying stats are better while the screenshot they themselves provided shows they're not.

Yep, this here is the crux of my problem.  DaumEU is, apparently, in no way obligated to give us what they advertised and sold.  This means I won't be spending another cent on the game, because anything I might want to buy now or in the future could be undelivered, unfulfilled, inaccurate, or reduced in quantity or quality from the item I agreed to purchase.  DaumEU just demonstrated they no longer give a shit once they have the money for the product, even if they fail to deliver that product in a manner that matches the form and function agreed upon at the time of transaction.  If I can't trust the DaumEU's store pages to accurately and sufficiently represent the product I'm purchasing, then there's no point in my purchasing anything from them ever again, even though I do enjoy the game and would normally be amenable to additional support of the devs.

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Posted (edited)

What's more, they outright lied to us saying stats are better while the screenshot they themselves provided shows they're not. 

Lets take a look at the picture, shall we?  Assuming that its the best T5 horse, which starts out at 121% all stats, we can add the numbers together and find out statistically which horse is better stat wise.

Proof_its_better.thumb.png.3406dfbf83865

You claim it has worse stats, but infact it does have superior stats, by a large margin as well, assuming that we're using the best T5 horse which at level 1, starts at 121% at all stats.  If the horse started less, that makes the horse EVEN BETTER than that.  Don't give me the "Turning/brake stats don't matter, only speed and accel" excuse either.  Stats are stats and the superior horse is by far the Pre-order t5.  Just because its not in the stat that people desire most doesn't change the fact that its better stat-wise.  It even has an arbitrary number that lets it have a better chance at the skills we all want with horses.  Isn't that nice?

Stamina?  Eat more carrots, they literally cost 500 silver from the stable vendor, you can even grow them for some time spent.  I'd use a horse if it had 5k stamina at level 30 because stamina is literally a non-issue.

It even has more HP, convenient, but when monsters are still killing horses faster than you can do anything about it, an extra 1k hp isn't gonna help you save your horse.

Breeding?  The Dev's already said they didn't want people getting ahead with breeding that fast.  While it is proven this game is p2w, they can control how much p2w this game has, and while it's kinda lame they didn't mention this at all, I blame the consumer for not investigating the horse they were paying for.  You people did do research on this game before you bought it right?

Inventory slot?  Eh, yeah, i'll concede that one.  Kinda lame, but I don't use more horses for carrying shit anyway, slows em down.

Crying 'Daum lied about the horse' is bullshit, frankly.  No one ever asked what horse they were getting, and they didn't lie about the stats being better either.

Edited by Roland Daemon
Grammar.

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Posted

Great, now we have victim-blaming white knights and fanyboys defending DaumEU for misleading us. 

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Posted (edited)

Lets take a look at the picture, shall we?  Assuming that its the best T5 horse, which starts out at 121% all stats, we can add the numbers together and find out statistically which horse is better stat wise.

Proof_its_better.thumb.png.3406dfbf83865

You claim it has worse stats, but infact it does have superior stats, by a large margin as well, assuming that we're using the best T5 horse which at level 1, starts at 121% at all stats.  If the horse started less, that makes the horse EVEN BETTER than that.  Don't give me the "Turning/brake stats don't matter, only speed and accel" excuse either.  Stats are stats and the superior horse is by far the Pre-order t5.  Just because its not in the stat that people desire most doesn't change the fact that its better stat-wise.  It even has an arbitrary number that lets it have a better chance at the skills we all want with horses.  Isn't that nice?

Stamina?  Eat more carrots, they literally cost 500 silver from the stable vendor, you can even grow them for some time spent.  I'd use a horse if it had 5k stamina at level 30 because stamina is literally a non-issue.

It even has more HP, convenient, but when monsters are still killing horses faster than you can do anything about it, an extra 1k hp isn't gonna help you save your horse.

Breeding?  The Dev's already said they didn't want people getting ahead with breeding that fast.  While it is proven this game is p2w, they can control how much p2w this game has, and while it's kinda lame they didn't mention this at all, I blame the consumer for not investigating the horse they were paying for.  You people did do research on this game before you bought it right?

Inventory slot?  Eh, yeah, i'll concede that one.  Kinda lame, but I don't use more horses for carrying shit anyway, slows em down.

Crying 'Daum lied about the horse' is bullshit, frankly.  No one ever asked what horse they were getting, and they didn't lie about the stats being better either.

Yeah, I'll give you the "Turning/brake stats don't matter, only speed and accel" argument because that argument is valid. Summing up all stats and declaring that X is better because it has more of something than Y is not (this is like, basic logic, dude, didn't they teach you that in school?). That would be like saying a witch/wizard with +5 attack speed is better than a witch/wizard with +4 casting speed. It's not. Just the same, horse with infinitely more turn/break is not better than a horse with 0.5% more speed.

You also completely glossed over the fact that preorder T5 horse can't learn some skills that non-preorder tier 5 horses can, so yeah, my point still stands, they lied and you're a troll.

Edited by Aywa
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Posted

Sigh, add the fact that is one comparison, I can compare a dozen of the same skinned same tier horses and EVERY single one will have different lvl 30 stats, some thanks to rng can be seen as vastly superior to others. One screenshot comparison means exactly nothing. Also, tell me how we were supposed to research the fact it had one breed, no exchange, no sell, one less inventory, lower breeding potential. I will wait as you pull up evidence from Daum or Pearl Abyss that states any of that anywhere prior to release.

Go ahead, waiting.

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Posted

Summing up all stats and declaring that X is better because it has more of something than Y is not.

But it's statistically better.  It has more, and therefore better objectively.

Subjectively on the other hand is a different story.  And who knows, you may have gotten more stats into speed than turning/brake.

You also completely glossed over the fact that preorder T5 horse can't learn some skills that non-preorder tier 5 horses can...

Can't get sideways step but still can get Instant Accel, Drift and Sprint at a higher rate.  Whatever shall I do without Sideways Step.

So far other than a few minor details, they gave you guys a Better T5 Horse than all the others.

...they lied...

They Didn't.

...and you're a troll.

Name calling, eh?  While I appreciate the insult, I feel like calling someone a troll after showing actual proof of statistical superiority between two subjects is in poor taste and not a valid reasoning on why i'm wrong.

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Posted

 

Breeding?  The Dev's already said they didn't want people getting ahead with breeding that fast.  While it is proven this game is p2w, they can control how much p2w this game has, and while it's kinda lame they didn't mention this at all, I blame the consumer for not investigating the horse they were paying for.  You people did do research on this game before you bought it right?

 

More trolling. The devs never once gave any indication that the T5 which they labeled as T5 and used as incentive bait would not breed or perform (such as ability to acquire all T5 skills or breed as a true tier 5) and if you seriously suggest people should have been aware of the scam based on something ridiculous like higher tiered horses would not be available in the wild until future patches, you are quite confused on your reasoning. 

I laughed out lout when I read "I blame the consumer for not investigating the horse they were paying for".  Why the hell would we 'investigate' whether the horse in the package was a T5 if the horse was advertised AS a T5? Should we also have investigated whether we would get the head start hours  promised (perhaps they were pseudohours and only 17 min instead of 60) or whether the outfit with combat xp would disappear in 3 days (never stated it wouldn't), or that the skill tools would actually work and were not just ornamental, or whether the 2500 pearls were equal to 2500 pearls in the cash shop and not some pseudopearl worth only 30% of the real pearl value.... I could go on an on but your argument is asinine so no point. 

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Posted

 

So far other than a few minor details, they gave you guys a Better T5 Horse than all the others.

 

Minus two breeding attempts, lower breeding output, inventory space, one T5 skill which all T5's can learn is not to be glossed over. And finally, a single cherry picked screenshot means absolutely nothing. Would you accept a single screenshot of a normal bred T5 black male that has better stats than the Conq as final and definitive proof that it is not superior?

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Posted

Why the hell would we 'investigate' whether the horse in the package was a T5 if the horse was advertised AS a T5? 

You wouldn't buy a top of the line car without doing research, would you?  Why would an MMO which are notorious for having issue's at launches be any different?

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Posted

You wouldn't buy a top of the line car without doing research, would you?  Why would an MMO which are notorious for having issue's at launches be any different?

Show me any Daum or Pearl Abyss evidence that what they said, was not what we were going to get. A true T5 horse, go ahead, I will wait.

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Posted (edited)

But it's statistically better.  It has more, and therefore better objectively.

Subjectively on the other hand is a different story.  And who knows, you may have gotten more stats into speed than turning/brake.

Can't get sideways step but still can get Instant Accel, Drift and Sprint at a higher rate.  Whatever shall I do without Sideways Step.

So far other than a few minor details, they gave you guys a Better T5 Horse than all the others.

They Didn't.

Name calling, eh?  While I appreciate the insult, I feel like calling someone a troll after showing actual proof of statistical superiority between two subjects is in poor taste and not a valid reasoning on why i'm wrong.

No serious statistician would call this statistically better. Really, only elementary school kids would multiply all values with the same weight and sum them up in this scenario. 

True statistician would attempt to measure the impact of each of these stats, find a weight factor based on that research and then do the math carefully. Some statisticians wouldn't even use a linear formula to determine the real value of those stats. Some wouldn't even attempt to discern which horse is better, but whether either of them belongs to a Pareto efficient frontier. Seriously, you don't know a thing about statistics, that much is evident.

I will reiterate, just as a witch/wizard with +5 AS is not better than a witch/wizard with +4 CS, conq. pack horse is not better than a true tier 5 horse because it has few meaningless stats bumped up. Only con-people would try to sell one as such.

You can't get those skills at a higher rate either, the amount of invalid things you've said in your first reply and now in your second makes me even more certain that you're a troll.

Edited by Aywa

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Posted

I'm not even mad about the -----ing stats. I'm mad that its lacking the functionality of EVERY OTHER HORSE.

If a male horse in this game is defined as having 2 breed chances, the ability to sell or exchange and learn a certain set of skills... and ours CANT do that. It's not even a male horse.

It's a special other-sex horse that requires more EXP to level than others and can only breed once.

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Posted

tfw you buy a death reset only to figure out the T5 pre order horse breeds as a T3.

 

PLEASE MAKE OUR PRE ORDER HORSES ACTUAL HORSES

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Posted

meh, it doesn't solve the breeding mystery. 

also the stats doesn't look good compare to T4 horse.

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Posted (edited)

No serious statistician would call this statistically better. Really, only elementary school kids would multiply all values with the same weight and sum them up in this scenario. 

True statistician would attempt to measure the impact of each of these stats, find a weight factor based on that research and then do the math carefully. Some statisticians wouldn't even use a linear formula to determine the real value of those stats. Some wouldn't even attempt to discern which horse is better, but whether either of them belongs to a Pareto efficient frontier. Seriously, you don't know a thing about statistics, that much is evident.

You can't get those skills at a higher rate either, the amount of invalid things you've said in your first reply and now in your second makes me even more certain that you're a troll.

See, i'm only doing what Daum is doing.  They believe all stats have the same weight, and by their example, it's better.  I'm not arguing that speed/accell are they better stats:  They are, by a longshot.  I'm just trying to get people understand their rationale so they can do one of two things.

1. Realize you got -----ed and you're not gonna get any repayment on the issue after the official statement, so there's literally no point to keep fighting this, accept the loss and keep playing.

2. Quit the game and tell people to avoid it because of a pre-order debacle.

In the end, the choice is yours.  Arguing at this point is moot and honestly kind fun just because there hasn't been a point where my arguements have not been valid in the context of Daum's perspective.  I believe to an extent, you guys did get hosed, but at the same time how many MMO's and Dev's have pulled this shit before?  Have you ever seen the BS Nexon does?  This is nothing new, and while I wish we could fight this harder, we can't due to the laws being in favor of the dev's rather than cosumers in the US.  I'm surprised that EU people aren't refunding, but that also brings up how good the game is as a whole that people aren't.

This game fills a niche, and a few people getting upset over not getting 100% as advertised (more like 95% or some subjective arbitrary number) isn't going to stop people from playing, buying pearls and enjoying the game.

In the end, what do you care what I say?  I'm just a random you'll never meet in real life that has a vastly different opinion than you.  If i'm a troll because of this, so be it.  Doesn't change the fact that people got -----ed and it could have been prevented had people asked just abit about the horses before they got the 100$ package.  Most people I know that got it was for the 2 day headstart, the horse was just a bonus.

Edited by Roland Daemon
Emphasis

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Posted (edited)

do we know for a fact that a Conq T5 (lvl 25) horse can be traded for a Camel? - if so then i guess i don't care so much if not then hell yeah i care

Edited by Kreese

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Posted

Just because they are being scumbags doesn't mean I'm going to be quiet about it or quit playing the parts of the game I enjoy. Others will think twice about further financial support and know to be wary of trusting that they are selling the things they say they are and that's enough reason for me to keep -----ing until they remedy the situation.

Their "final statement" doesn't make this go away.

Until I receive an acceptable resolution, then they will continue to get my -----ing. Maybe it'll be every day on the forums. Maybe it'll be on posts on each of their facebook blasts or social media outlets. But people are going to keep hearing how shitty of their customer service is until they decide that their reputation means a shit. 

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See, i'm only doing what Daum is doing.  They believe all stats have the same weight, and by their example, it's better.  I'm not arguing that speed/accell are they better stats:  They are, by a longshot.  I'm just trying to get people understand their rationale so they can do one of two things.

1. Realize you got -----ed and you're not gonna get any repayment on the issue after the official statement, so there's literally no point to keep fighting this, accept the loss and keep playing.

2. Quit the game and tell people to avoid it because of a pre-order debacle.

In the end, the choice is yours.  Arguing at this point is moot and honestly kind fun just because there hasn't been a point where my arguements have not been valid in the context of Daum's perspective.  I believe to an extent, you guys did get hosed, but at the same time how many MMO's and Dev's have pulled this shit before?  Have you ever seen the BS Nexon does?  This is nothing new, and while I wish we could fight this harder, we can't due to the laws being in favor of the dev's rather than cosumers in the US.  I'm surprised that EU people aren't refunding, but that also brings up how good the game is as a whole that people aren't.

This game fills a niche, and a few people getting upset over not getting 100% as advertised (more like 95% or some subjective arbitrary number) isn't going to stop people from playing, buying pearls and enjoying the game.

In the end, what do you care what I say?  I'm just a random you'll never meet in real life that has a vastly different opinion than you.  If i'm a troll because of this, so be it.  Doesn't change the fact that people got -----ed and it could have been prevented had people asked just abit about the horses before they got the 100$ package.  Most people I know that got it was for the 2 day headstart, the horse was just a bonus.

What you say matters, because you're trying to get people to drop the issue on account that nothing is going to be done. As I already said, if we keep on doing that (dropping the issue), they'll just think that they can easily get away with bigger things. I still enjoy the game, but I want it to be even better, so I voice my opinions. I don't want it to fail so I'll try to prevent that and act as soon as I see that some things that lead to failures in other games start to happen here, even on the smallest of scales. The fact that Nexon is a crap publisher doesn't mean that Daum should follow their example or that it excuses Daum from misleading their customers. 

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You wouldn't buy a top of the line car without doing research, would you?  Why would an MMO which are notorious for having issue's at launches be any different?

Wait, so the analogy you come up with for this situation is buying a car? Not an accurate analogy as this has nothing to do with 'additional' research. Daum published a neat little detailed listing of all the packages and perks and the cost of the packages. Other than reading the list of items, clicking on the ?  next to the items for additional details, and reading the FAQ sheet below the packages along with following the forums, what other research do you suggest one could have done? Again, rhetorical question as your reasoning is asinine and at this point, pure troll. 

Although your car analogy is skewed, let me assure you that if I decide I want a Lexus LS and someone advertises a Lexus LS and sells me a Lexus CS stating it is an LS, rest assured I would have full legal recourse. 

This has nothing to do with a company that is notorious for having issues at launch. There is a difference between me not having any of my promised head start perks for several days (issues at launch) and being misled on the sale of an item- deceptive sales practice.  

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What you say matters, because you're trying to get people to drop the issue on account that nothing is going to be done. As I already said, if we keep on doing that (dropping the issue), they'll just think that they can easily get away with bigger things. I still enjoy the game, but I want it to be even better, so I voice my opinions. I don't want it to fail so I'll try to prevent that and act as soon as I see that some things that lead to failures in other games start to happen here, even on the smallest of scales. The fact that Nexon is a crap publisher doesn't mean that Daum should follow their example or that it excuses Daum from misleading their customers. 

If you want to make sure they do better, get them on future shit and not stuff they aren't going to fix.  Call them out on bullshit events, bullshit prizes or things that come out in the pearl shop that are incredibly, overtly p2w or even scamming (Such as keys/boxes ala tf2/cs:go/dota, Gambling, ho~)

Ever since the pre-order debacle and the lackluster resolution on the serendia issues, they have been trying.  Event's could be better, and they have recently been better about communicating, but with stuff in the past, there is only so much they can do.

I applaud the effort sincerely, more people need to do it, but you gotta know when you've lost and this is a situation where you have lost and the final word has been said.  Bring this up as ammo if shit like this happens in the future, but for now, they are TRYING to make things right with frequent events (Giving out a free pet hawk for the maehwa event is really nice, IMO.  Was never asked, but more than welcome)

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They say it has a higher chance of learning skills and whatever, but we were not told this when we spent $100... Isn't that false advertising? 

yes

A T5 has has an arbitrarily assigned statline that varies. You can get  lower tier horses that are faster, stronger, smarter et cetera. The Pre-order ones just happen to be low end ones with low sperm counts. The latter is pretty standard with pre-order things, so I see no reason to be annoyed about that. The former is fortunately quite inconsequential. 

If they'd given us a T5 horse that was 1.3 times as fast as usual, and could breed 4 times, I'm guessing people received them wouldn't be saying "No this isn't a T5, please take this off me, it's not in line with t'others!" They'd be all "Hey, this is a fancy special T5!" Since it was changed in favour of the general population instead of the minority who pre-ordered, the minority get all uppity.

So many people here are pretending to act on principle when they wouldn't under any other circumstances. 

Since half the people have been trying to misrepresent my opinions in their replies, I've always been of the opinion they should have given us a perfectly average T5, and what they did & how they handled it was very bad practice. I've quite clearly stated that several times.
But, they did give us a T5. They fulfilled their obligations exactly.

your correct if I buy a mercedes and get a ferrari I probably wouldn't complain...but if I buy a mercedes and get a yugo or yugo engine in it...You better bet your rear end I would complain.

Your analogy is different because it's a fake rolex watch. (Not that any self respecting person would ever by a rolex, but that's an entirely different subject.

What we got was a T5 horse. Says so right there in its description, stats, files, whatever. We were promised a T5 horse. It is a T5 horse. 

What people are doing here is like complaining
"I was promised a "Ford Focus" and they gave me a Ford Focus Style. I wanted a Zetec. Sure, they never said I was getting a Zetec, but I'm all entitled-like and it sounds nicer!"
No, you got a Ford Focus, they fulfilled their obligation.

We got a T5 Horse. Just because some of you don't want to believe it's a T5 horse, doesn't mean it isn't.

No we didn't get a tier 5 horse.....We got a tier 3 horse with 1 breed...when all the other male horses in the game in all versions except for this unique horse have 2 breeds....all the other horses in the game except for this horse can be sold or exchanged...this unique horse can not....all the other tier 5 horses in all versions of the game have more than 1 inventory slot...this horse does not....all the other tier 5 horses in all versions of the game that are black have side step...this horse even the black version does not....Just because someone changed the name of a yugo and put a honda label on it...doesn't mean its a honda.  

This is called BAIT And Switching and is Illegal all over the world.

do we know for a fact that a Conq T5 (lvl 25) horse can be traded for a Camel? - if so then i guess i don't care so much if not then hell yeah i care

odds are it can't be traded for anything as it can't be sold or exchanged for anything.

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Posted

We didn't even get a T3 horse. We got nothing that resembles any other horse in the game, preorder or otherwise. We received a defective product that they are calling a T5 horse, where its lacking functionality indicates that it so only in name.

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Posted (edited)

"I know this is not the resolution that many were looking for"; reminds me a lot of that xp bug event a few days ago (and other issues before). Like, "we know, we are sorry, end of story". Sadly i don`t remember any issue which was solved so that it surprised me in a positive way. Well, for myself i know why i quit playing bdo. 

Back to the topic: They should have just labled that horse different. Could have avoided all those discussion. If they advertise an InGame item (Tier 5 horse) then everyone should get exactly that. If you buy an item right now from the cash shop, then you don`t expect to get any different version of what you bought, do you? Btw, is that Tier 3 which you will get when you order the package right now also some kind of modified? If not, this would be really ridiculous. If yes, it still is misleading the customers!

Edited by Alcorius
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