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1:1 Player Trading is too restrictive


44 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

TL;DR: Player trading with less restrictions will add a lot of dynamic changes to economy and player interaction. In its current state it is useless and provides no benefits. 

In its current state, 1:1 Player Trading is completely useless and either needs to be removed or reworked. The only thing you can trade with other players is consumables. I don't want it removed personally because I love 1:1 Player Trading in games, it makes it way more personal to trade gear to another player, friend, etc. Its a nice alternative to using the market which has taxes, delay for listing, and a prices which cannot be changed (forcing you to sell an item at a set price range). I especially don't understand why the market is forcing us to sell an item within a specified price range or not sell it all on the market. It makes level 10 bows sometimes sell for nearly 10k silver. Who is honestly going to buy a bow that's 10k silver? And sure we can just NPC it but that is less silver and just isn't as rewarding as selling it on the market. I won't go to deep into the market because this post is about 1:1 Player Trading. 

1:1 Player Trading as an alternative:
I think if the marketplace were to stay the same in its current state, i.e forcing us to sell in a price range, then 1:1 Player Trading with less restrictions would be perfect! Player Trading is meant to be an alternative to the market, in its current state it's not. It offers nothing different and is more limited. The market has many purposes: sell quickly, provide tax money to guilds, convenient selling and buying from anywhere, easier to find products. The market is great for someone looking for a quick purchase, looking to sell quickly, and less hassle to negotiate prices for an item. 1:1 Player trading with less restrictions can offer many options that would make players consider trading over the market. Such as: negotiation of prices, no taxes, quicker and faster transfer of items from one player to another, helping friends/guild mates with crafting. It will offer a more extensive level of connection between players, allowing the game to feel more connected instead of feeling like a single player game where you cannot help anyone build, craft, or gather materials without selling them. I am sure the economy, market, and player trading were all carefully crafted to prevent many things like gold-sellers, supply and demand, and price gouging.That's not say there isn't any cons for player trading, there is plenty which I will cover in the next topic.

1:1 Player Trading Pros and Cons:
First I will go back to the pros before talking more in-depth about the cons and how they can be alleviated or prevented.

Pros:
Negotiating of prices is great for a player run economy and allows items that would otherwise go for high prices, prices already set on the market, to go for slightly cheaper. It allows talk and exploration of the true value of that item between two players. It can create conflict, it can create value, and it can lead to changes and shifts in value for an item. 

No taxes allows you to gain more silver per transaction. Not much else to be said here besides a better profit for the seller. 

With the current system, listing a market item is instant but it takes some time for that item to show up on the market. This works great with the notification system but can be frustrating refreshing the same item for 10 mins waiting for it to come up and hoping no one else gets the item. Allowing us to trade the item guarantees that you will be able to buy that item and you will be able to receive it quickly without waiting.

Lastly, trading to friends, guild mates, or anyone you want to provide items with would be much easier. If you want to help a friend craft a boat and you have high gathering then you can go chop some wood and trade it to him with no hassle. This creates a better sense of community without the worry of having to list it and pray your friend buys the item in time. He would also have to pay money instead of them receiving it for free. Many people have already complained about this, it makes the group effort of wanting to build/craft something utterly useless and a huge frustration. If you want to trade a weapon or piece of armor to a friend then you can easily. Leveling with a bunch of friends and you receive a bow for a ranger friend? Easily trade it to him, no hassle. In it's current state you cannot do that without selling it to him. 

Cons:
I will start with the big one, gold sellers. Yes, we all know gold sellers are a pain but will they ever go away? No. They won't, they will always find a way to trade the gold. Even in the current system with the most restriction I have ever seen for an economy, they will find a way. I can think one right now off the top of my head. Listing an item on the market and having the gold seller buy the product from you. Maybe an obscure product, they know exactly when you list it with the notification system and if you alter the price a little bit they can easily buy it from you. Although with the taxes you will receive less gold, it will still work. Restricting the player trading simply because you are worried about gold sellers is futile and unfair to the loyal player base who will not be buying gold. It is unfair that we have to be restricted because of gold selling. Many games have run with gold sellers for years and at one point it almost becomes part of the economy without being spoken about.

A potential way to fix the gold seller problem is to limit the amount of silver/gold bars that can be traded. This is a simple solution and not always effective but its a quick fix. Another way would be to create a trading token that can be crafted or bought through players/cash shop. Only by using the token can you trade with another player. I am not a huge fan of trading tokens but if it opens up trading for say a couple of transactions or allows players to trade freely then I am all for it. This could also create a real distinction in the value of trading to a player vs. selling on a market. It can create demand for 1:1 Player Trading tokens. 

The next con would be less player transactions on the market. But this is where the open world aspect of BDO comes in perfectly. The world is huge, traveling from one end of the map to another can take a lot of resources and has its risks. If you are riding a mount you have to spend carrots to keep stamina full. You could be player killed trying to make it to the meeting point for the transaction. The amount of inventory space and weight limit will be a huge factor on how much you will trade with the player. This is why 1:1 Player Trading is perfect for this game. It allows a dynamic sense of player interaction where you take the risks to conduct the trade with the benefit of no tax, lower prices, and easier/quicker transactions. The market will still be the best way to find an item you need quickly and purchase it. It will be easier to list an item on the market and wait for the money to roll in. While if you want a higher price for the item you can negotiate through player trading and then set a meeting point in the open world. Meanwhile player trading will be a better way to sell/trade an item with varying risks and rewards. Its a great system to provide players with meaningful risks and rewards to trade an item to a player. 

Another con would be the fact that you have to carry the items around and spend inventory space and weight. This is great way to help separate the market and 1:1 trading. Instead of carrying the item around you can list it on the market to make easy and quick money. Alternatively this is where wagons, boats, and various other mounts can help alleviate the pain of carrying around the product.

1:1 Player Trading is perfect for an open world game and will provide a lot of meaningful change the gameplay and economy. So please remove the restrictions, in its current state it is useless.

I will update this topic if I find more to talk about. 

Edited by Chaosbelow
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Posted (edited)

Yo, I wrote this already in another thread, but here you go - 

I'd go with full trade with a neat limitation - weekly trade limit. You can only trade items with a value less than 50 000 silvers each week. So you could mail some stone pieces to your friend on Monday which would be worth something like 30 000 and then some bait worth 20 000 on Tuesday. But after you do that, you can't trade anymore. 50 000 isn't something worth trading your real money for, and if you think so, then this ammount could be always fixed to 5 000 or 10 000 - what matters is the limit idea. 

The items' price would be the highest marketplace bid.

ALSO to trade you'd need to be AT LEAST lvl 15/20 so bots wouldn't just make new accs over and over (even though it's b2p, they would still do that - I'm speaking from my pre-f2p GW2 experience. Those guys are really determined.)

 

I was having an amazing conversation about this game's immersive crafting system with my friends and then, well, I ran out of bait >.> Bros had like 50 more so they would've shared it if they were able to do that. I really want to be able to trade the little things. The limit is a good way to avoid gold selling, enabling us to go with full trading option.

 
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Edited by Jamoci333

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I prefer no gold sellers or P2W at any cost to unregulated trading. so AH is enough trading. from there all players have to be self-made in terms of gear and achievements

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Posted (edited)

The restriction I mentioned would elliminate gold selling and P2W elements. It would allow for trading items of low value, though, which is VERY handy in many situations.

Edited by Jamoci333

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Posted (edited)

What restriction do you have to stop me (max level for example) trading the best gear I can get for him , considering there is no level on gear I could just hand him a +15 weapon and armor (as an example).

I agree with helping people out but yeah stuff like that would just spoil the game imo

 

I'm personally happy with AH only , for the fact everyone has to earn everything themselves either by crafting or buying with money

Edited by Tigzar

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Posted

The restriction I mentioned would elliminate gold selling and P2W elements. It would allow for trading items of low value, though, which is VERY handy in many situations.

items of any value can be used by gold sellers to sell gold and make the game P2W

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Posted

The restriction I mentioned would elliminate gold selling and P2W elements. It would allow for trading items of low value, though, which is VERY handy in many situations.

Items of low value are already being used by gold sellers via trade in RU. They trade potions that equate to the amount of silver ordered and the buyer sells them to a vendor for silver.

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I prefer no gold sellers or P2W at any cost to unregulated trading.

That's because you're not understanding that these two are not mutually exclusive.

"Gold sellers" aren't fucking gold hungry virtual gremlins. They are people trying to exploit the system to make money, it doesn't matter what the system is.

Just as people who hurt other people are not going to stop because your government bans all firearms. They're going to pick up a fucking hammer and kill you.

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Posted

items of any value can be used by gold sellers to sell gold and make the game P2W

people can already buy silver by selling cash shop items on AH. ability to buy silver from elsewhere doesn't change whether the game is p2w positively nor negatively.

 

What restriction do you have to stop me (max level for example) trading the best gear I can get for him , considering there is no level on gear I could just hand him a +15 weapon and armor (as an example).

I agree with helping people out but yeah stuff like that would just spoil the game imo

 

I'm personally happy with AH only , for the fact everyone has to earn everything themselves either by crafting or buying with money

what is stopping you from buying 50 pets, selling them on AH and buying +15 gear? nothing. for you as a player, enabling or disabling player trading changes absolutely nothing in this matter.

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Posted

Items of low value are already being used by gold sellers via trade in RU. They trade potions that equate to the amount of silver ordered and the buyer sells them to a vendor for silver.

This right here. People need to understand that these current limits will not actually stop gold sellers. We need a more impressive and thought out trading system. 

 

The next con would be less player transactions on the market. But this is where the open world aspect of BDO comes in perfectly. The world is huge, traveling from one end of the map to another can take a lot of resources and has its risks. If you are riding a mount you have to spend carrots to keep stamina full. You could be player killed trying to make it to the meeting point for the transaction. The amount of inventory space and weight limit will be a huge factor on how much you will trade with the player. This is why 1:1 Player Trading is perfect for this game. It allows a dynamic sense of player interaction where you take the risks to conduct the trade with the benefit of no tax, lower prices, and easier/quicker transactions. The market will still be the best way to find an item you need quickly and purchase it. It will be easier to list an item on the market and wait for the money to roll in. While if you want a higher price for the item you can negotiate through player trading and then set a meeting point in the open world. Meanwhile player trading will be a better way to sell/trade an item with varying risks and rewards. Its a great system to provide players with meaningful risks and rewards to trade an item to a player. 

Another con would be the fact that you have to carry the items around and spend inventory space and weight. This is great way to help separate the market and 1:1 trading. Instead of carrying the item around you can list it on the market to make easy and quick money. Alternatively this is where wagons, boats, and various other mounts can help alleviate the pain of carrying around the product.

1:1 Player Trading is perfect for an open world game and will provide a lot of meaningful change the gameplay and economy. So please remove the restrictions, in its current state it is useless.

I think that this right here is what would help BDO really shine. Its simply too bad that many players seem to want to hide behind the lack of trade at all to realize that the very fact that our inventories are limited, that wagons can carry more than just trade goods, is there for a reason and would provide an amazing trading environment.

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Posted (edited)

Items of low value are already being used by gold sellers via trade in RU. They trade potions that equate to the amount of silver ordered and the buyer sells them to a vendor for silver.

How so? If you can't mail more than a value of 50 000 silver each week, then how do they mail more than it? Did you even read my post? And if so, are you sure you understand it?

Edited by Jamoci333

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Posted (edited)

//sorry doublepost

Edited by Jamoci333

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How so? If you can't mail more than a value of 50 000 silver each week, then how do they mail more than it?

mail 50,000 from multiple accounts. its not like gold sellers have only 1 account

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Beautifully written OP.

I want to play a game with my friends, not beside them.

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How so? If you can't mail more than a value of 50 000 silver each week, then how do they mail more than it? Did you even read my post? And if so, are you sure you understand it?

This

mail 50,000 from multiple accounts. its not like gold sellers have only 1 account

And that 50,000 is such a small amount that you'd end up pretty much just as restricted as now.

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Posted

Could not agree more. Its the severe impact to playing with my friends/guild that i am worried about. 

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Posted

This

And that 50,000 is such a small amount that you'd end up pretty much just as restricted as now.

 restrictive for you and me but not for goldsellers, hundreds to thousands of them in any game would be able to work around that by mailing 50,000 a rediculous amount of times

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 restrictive for you and me but not for goldsellers, hundreds to thousands of them in any game would be able to work around that by mailing 50,000 a rediculous amount of times

Only in free to play games bucko, they have to shell out $30 per account, a single gold seller won't have "hundreds to thousands" of accounts. 

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Only in free to play games bucko, they have to shell out $30 per account, a single gold seller won't have "hundreds to thousands" of accounts. 

I think you'd be surprised how little gold sellers care about an entry fee to a game.

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Only in free to play games bucko, they have to shell out $30 per account, a single gold seller won't have "hundreds to thousands" of accounts. 

have you seen GW2 or any other B2P game? there are still thousands across multiple servers.

its a multibillion dollar industry now, that pays for employees a salary to do it which costs more than those $30 measly dollars u spent on the game

 

this articis outdated but its still growing

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7575902.stm

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people can already buy silver by selling cash shop items on AH. ability to buy silver from elsewhere doesn't change whether the game is p2w positively nor negatively.

 

what is stopping you from buying 50 pets, selling them on AH and buying +15 gear? nothing. for you as a player, enabling or disabling player trading changes absolutely nothing in this matter.

You got an official link from devs stating that the EU/NA cash shop will have non account bound items?.

Until you do your point is invalid.

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How so? If you can't mail more than a value of 50 000 silver each week, then how do they mail more than it? Did you even read my post? And if so, are you sure you understand it?

They don't use the mail system they use player to player trade. That's why I'm making the comment in a thread about P2P trade. Do you follow lol? They trade potions via direct player to player trade to equate to the amount of silver purchased. The player purchasing receives the potions, sells them to a vendor, and buys his gold that way. Anything you trade that has any value to either a vendor or the AH can and will be used by gold sellers.

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Posted (edited)

godammit, wtf forums. I doubleposted again, sorry...

Edited by Jamoci333

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So you didn't actually read my post. I wrote how only players at lvl X+ would be able to mail others. 

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have you seen GW2 or any other B2P game? there are still thousands across multiple servers.

its a multibillion dollar industry now, that pays for employees a salary to do it which costs more than those $30 measly dollars u spent on the game

 

this articis outdated but its still growing

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7575902.stm

I have 6000 hours logged on GW2, and I can assure that gold sellers are not an issue here.  You get the occasional whisper, from them, but removing the mail system to get rid of this the few random solicitations would absolutely destroy the game.

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