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Gm response on Macros/Is it fair?

267 posts in this topic

Posted

I had a conversation with a GM through email about their stance on macros as the TOS was rather vague, here's what was said.

me: Is a macro that preforms a single ability considered a simple macro?

GM Rhotaaz: It depends what it does. What are you trying to macro?

me: The combo to preform skill X is (Shift+S+lmb); would it be ok to macro a single key to preform (Shift+S+lmb)?

Gm Rhotaaz: That's okay. It wouldn't violate the terms of service. :)

For those of you that don't know, using a skill via your skill bar greatly reduces the power of that skill as a form of punishment for not being able to preform that ability via the combo system. However with the use of macros you can macro the combo to a single key bypassing the punishment and leave out any errors that might be made while preforming a combo. It also gives people with easily tweakable keyboards such as the Razer Chroma  an unfair advantage over those who cannot efficiently macro. 

 

Side note: I tested a few macros in beta and they work like a charm.

 

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Posted (edited)

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Edited by Xyler
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Posted

Isn't that the point of a hotkey ? to do a combination of things quickly?

 

If that wasnt the purpose they would just call it keybindings...

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Posted (edited)

Isn't that the point of a hotkey ? to do a combination of things quickly?

 

If that wasnt the purpose they would just call it keybindings...

The main point being that using the skill bar = penalty using macro = no penalty

Edited by Xeliden
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Posted

Given the idea of this game being "skill based" I'd like to believe they should add a clause to the TOS prohibiting use of macros that automate combat in any manner. 

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Posted

Given the idea of this game being "skill based" I'd like to believe they should add a clause to the TOS prohibiting use of macros that automate combat in any manner. 

macros are impossible to enforce.

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Posted (edited)

I was temporarily suspended in gw2 for using a macro.

Edited by Xeliden

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Posted

macros are impossible to enforce.

The prevalence of macro programs make it this way.  Most multimedia and "gaming" keyboard/mice come with packaged software that have macro functionality.  There would have to be a ban of running any of these programs in the background, like Razer synapse, Tt esports engine, Corsair link, and many other vendor programs.  What is recorded through these macros is keystrokes/clicks and timings.  The input that the game client gets is the same as you actually pressing the keys.  The only possible way I can see monitoring this is having a monitoring system that is recording input delays and patterns.  If there is .073 seconds between keystroke w and f and that delay is persistent, then I could maybe see being able to dish out TOS bans.

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Posted (edited)

I was temporarily suspended in gw2 for using a macro.

not sure the case but it probably effected the game somehow. If you have a button that does something basic. Like hitting the X key actually inputs a command like Up + X + Down + X.... who cares??? combos are not that hard to do in this game. MOST of the time I would say you are at a disadvantage based on the script of commands. 

 

In BDO things move sooo quickly then using these Combo chains typically would end up with your slashing at nothing while your getting hit in the back... 

 

I can see it being advantageous when you knock someone down... But at the same time... if you play enough and train yourself you will learn the combos like second hand knowledge... so what if you press 2 buttoms and i press 10... if im happy pressing 10 then i dont see why it would matter

Edited by Stego

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Posted

I was temporarily suspended in gw2 for using a macro.

There's a difference between a combo macro and a macro that, for example, spams clicks 50 times a second to consume a luck stack :P Click inputs far faster than physically possible are easy to detect, keybind combination macros are not

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Posted

You know a macro they talk about would be Press 1 button and then auto grind monsters for the next 36 hours.

Not something as mundane as press one button and it does multiple buttons at once lol.

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Posted (edited)

not sure the case but it probably effected the game somehow. If you have a button that does something basic. Like hitting the X key actually inputs a command like Up + X + Down + X.... who cares??? combos are not that hard to do in this game. MOST of the time I would say you are at a disadvantage based on the script of commands. 

 

In BDO things move sooo quickly they using these Combo chains typically when end up with your slashing at nothing while your getting hit in the back... 

 

I can see it being advantageous when you knock someone down... But at the same time... if you play enough and train yourself you will learn the combos like second hand knowledge... so what if you press 2 buttoms and i press 10... if im happy pressing 10 then i dont see why it would matter

It was a macro that clicked shift and space at the same time in order to preform a jump roll... with the right macro you would never be forced into preforming a the full combo if you didn't want to... with my chroma I can click the macro again to cancel it.

Edited by Xeliden

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Posted

You know a macro they talk about would be Press 1 button and then auto grind monsters for the next 36 hours.

Not something as mundane as press one button and it does multiple buttons at once lol.

The point is..... there's a penalty for using skill via the skill bar..... with macros you completely ignore that mechanic of the game....

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Posted

if using the combo system is more efficient than hotkeys on your bar (by that i mean do more damage because you did combo system) then macros should be frowned upon, any real good player would know that every second matters.

 

With macros you could more or less replace your skill bar with macro commands and then just use those and get the full effect without having to worry about the combo system which is disturbing.

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Posted

if using the combo system is more efficient than hotkeys on your bar (by that i mean do more damage because you did combo system) then macros should be frowned upon, any real good player would know that every second matters.

 

With macros you could more or less replace your skill bar with macro commands and then just use those and get the full effect without having to worry about the combo system which is disturbing.

Exactly! thank you!

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Posted

I use a corsair keyboard and mouse that both have the option to customize every button. I never once considered using a macro... Is the game so hard that you'd really need them post 50?

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Posted

I guess i did not look at it like that. I literally get a skill and if it has a command i dont put it on my bar. So i didnt even know there was a damage difference because i dont use the skillbar unless it requires me too

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Posted

It was a macro that clicked shift and space at the same time in order to preform a jump roll... with the right macro you would never be forced into preforming a the full combo if you didn't want to... with my chroma I can click the macro again to cancel it.

Really? Wow that's so unlucky, I was pretty sure all us scrubs ran a macro for that for SAB.

Think it's fine if you were hammering out a DPS rotation for some sort PvE content, press 1 do optimal DPS  (what content? You ask.)

For this game and PvP, combo macros would just confuse my fingers. Surely you need to react/cancel animations manually. 

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Posted (edited)

Macros probably wont matter to casual players. But to people whos actually invested into the pvp scene it will be a huge advantage to have macros over someone who doesnt simply because you would have to move your fingers to three buttons whereas the guy with the macro would only have to move his finger to one, because of that the guy with the macro earns some extra time and basically gets to fight faster and react faster than a person without a macro would be able to.

 

honestly i can see it becoming an issue in really high tier pvp where just about everyone has macros to increase their speed for long combo skill inputs

 

edit: Though it might only be some milliseconds in difference everything counts in high tier pvp.

Edited by Gomethegnome

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Posted

Macros are like non-looping scripts that are not really that "intelligent."

  • What is OKAY
  • Example: Create a macro spamming "R" with No delay While pressing the "M5" key on a Razer keyboard (Legit)

 

  • What is NOT OKAY
  • Example: Create a macro with conditions such as "IF %target < 90%, <Skill_yyyyyyyy>" Else %target, %attack <Skill_zzzzzz>"
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Posted

So basically you're saying I can macro stuff and be a top tier pvper? Sign me up...

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Posted

macros are impossible to enforce.

Hardly. You'd think that at a glance, but there are some pretty damned effective ways to deal with them in reality. I've seen some approaches put to use that actually get the job done exceptionally well. It's not worth delving into here as it'd wind up being pages of back and forth on it. Point is companies have taken down this sort of thing before, and can certainly keep preventing it to a pretty effective extent. 

I'd say it boils down to whether or not it's worth the effort or even something people would care enough about. Kinda what it all comes down to really I'd say. Certainly not something I could provide an answer on. I know that much.

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Posted

if using the combo system is more efficient than hotkeys on your bar (by that i mean do more damage because you did combo system) then macros should be frowned upon, any real good player would know that every second matters.

 

With macros you could more or less replace your skill bar with macro commands and then just use those and get the full effect without having to worry about the combo system which is disturbing.

I have to agree with this. There's a reason why they put a penalty on using skills via the skill bars (plural because you can have up to 20 keybinds in case you guys didn't know). Using macros to get around that defeats the purpose of it.

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Posted

I have to agree with this. There's a reason why they put a penalty on using skills via the skill bars (plural because you can have up to 20 keybinds in case you guys didn't know). Using macros to get around that defeats the purpose of it.

O.o how can i get 20 key-binds instead of the normal 10?

For those of you that don't know, using a skill via your skill bar greatly reduces the power of that skill as a form of punishment for not being able to preform that ability via the combo system. 

Where did you get this information? What about skills that can only be used via the skill bar?

If this is true i need to reevaluate my setup. 

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Posted (edited)

The game already has a built in system for key combos like these to perform skills, using a macro for shift+f, etc... is choice because its available to anyone. And while it might help in pve, it won't make you any better in pvp.

Edited by Varna

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