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Your Dye System is HORRIBLE


51 posts in this topic

Posted

Completely agree. Not only are dyes a one time use, we have at least 15+ dyeable parts to our already retardely expensive costumes. The chance of getting the dye color you want is insanely small and the fact that customization, a huge aspect of sandbox games, is limited only to those that spend 100$'s is RETARDED.

Before I knew how trap the dye system was I bought a few 3 set dyes and ended up blowing 40$ to get half my costume to look decent. Gave up halfway and committed suicide.

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Posted

Been playing since launch day,

Haven't bought pearls (because I'm broke and prices for in-game stuff are too high)

Finally gotten a dropped outfit that looks pretty decent,

I want to make it black... Can't do it because the rng screws me over and gives me crappy brown tones that look horrible, and bright blue reflective colours I'll never use.

I like dragon's prophet approach to dyes more, pick a square selection from a random colour pallet, pay (or run enough dailies to earn) to spin a colour wheel for one of the colours within said selection and unlock it permanently for you to use on everything. gotten the same colour twice? you'll get a ticket thingy, got 3 tickets and you can hand pick a colour from the grid to unlock. the grid doen't have the colour you want? pay to re-randomize the grid and get some new colours to unlock. needing a spesific colour and don't feel like going trough the rng? click on the colour pallet on the spesific colour you want and pay a bit extra to unlock it.

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Posted (edited)

I've spent $700 on this game. Not a penny of it went to dyes.

Their dye system is horrid. I don't mind shelling out money for a game. At all. However, this system is too frustrating to get into. 

Please fix!

Let us just buy the color we want and use it indefinitely. 

Edited by Vorkrunne

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Posted

Yeah the way they implemented it is pretty bad.
GW2 had it right. You buy it, you own it.
I wanted to spend money on Dyes like I did i GW2, but not going to spend a penny on this RNG nonsense.
It is almost impossible to dye an outfit with matching colors.

I am willing to spend 10 Euros a month just to rent the entire selection of dyes so I can use the colors I need.
But as it is now, I am not spending any money on it.

I'm confused, your willing to pay rental prices for dyes, and pay for a sub fee of £10, just for the privilege of "renting" dyes not actually keeping them?  SO you when you stop subbing your colours go back to base colour, and would it be safe to assume at that point you will stop paying and more than probably playing the game?

That's more than the price of a sub for a P2P game, and your willing to pay just to dye as much as you want?? (I think some would rather P2P entire game and access to all CS items rather than what your  asking for, as what your suggesting is another price gouge tbh). 

To paraphrase all the CS price defenders (who i don't agree with btw) colour is convenience, its not game breaking :P

No, i kid, I truly believe there should be basic dyes available to craft within game and  place "popular/limited" colours in CS shop for 1 time use like in SWTOR - BUT here where i differ on the idea from SWTOR - IF you get a popular dye from RNG box (who's drop % should be pretty low to make it rare) then you should be able to use that dye once placed in your pallet as many times as you like, and make it account bound.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

 

  I'm confused, your willing to pay rental prices for dyes, and pay for a sub fee of £10, just for the privilege of "renting" dyes not actually keeping them?  SO you when you stop subbing your    colours go back to base colour, and would it be safe to assume at that point you will stop paying and more than probably playing the game?

That's more than the price of a sub for a P2P game, and your willing to pay just to dye as much as you want?? (I think some would rather P2P entire game and access to all CS items rather than what your  asking for, as what your suggesting is another price gouge tbh). 

You missed one of my post or could not bother to read it:


The subscription idea is a compromise, since the reason why Daum won't let you buy the dye permanently (which is the best deal for us players) is because once you bought the colors you like you'd stop buying more, with the subscription model you still have to spend money on a regular basis if you want to keep your costume dyed, so they can keep making money out of it.
Again not best deal for us, but a sort of acceptable compromise.

It's not that I "love" a subscription for the Dyes, I don't have an orgasm thinking about it.
It's just that I understand the need for Daum to make money out of it, and I am offering a compromise they might take into consideration.
No point asking to be allowed to buy and keep the Dye you want.......it ain't gonna happen, like ever.
They will NEVER allow you to buy the dye you want and keep it, this should be clear to everyone.

So since they have to make money out of Dyes on a constant basis (meaning they want you to keep spending money on dyes every month), with the subscription at least we get to chose the color we really want, and keep it as long as we pay for the Sub, and we can Dye as much stuff as we like (Costumes, horse armor, carts and boats)

It is ideal for us players?
No it is not, but that's probably the only viable alternative Daum is willing to listen, though I am pretty sure that they are making tons of money with the current system so the chances are slim anyway.

Edited by KICKASS

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Posted

You missed one of my post or could not bother to read it:

It's not that I "love" a subscription for the Dyes, I don't have an orgasm thinking about it.It's just that I understand the need for Daum to make money out of it, and I am offering a compromise they might take into consideration.
No point asking to be allowed to buy and keep the Dye you want.......it ain't gonna happen, like ever.
They will NEVER allow you to buy the dye you want and keep it, this should be clear to everyone.

So since they have to make money out of Dyes on a constant basis (meaning they want you to keep spending money on dyes every month), with the subscription at least we get to chose the color we really want, and keep it as long as we pay for the Sub, and we can Dye as much stuff as we like (Costumes, horse armor, carts and boats)

It is ideal for us players?
No it is not, but that's probably the only viable alternative Daum is willing to listen, though I am pretty sure that they are making tons of money with the current system so the chances are slim anyway.

Nah, read all the posts.

But, don't agree with what your saying, merely cause your already compromising without trying to fight your case of how wrong what they charging in regards to anything in CS.

The dye RNG is symptom of the entire CS.

Right now the Dye doesn't affect me mainly cause I only have the Pre-order outfit, and it probably never will if the CS prices stay as it is and will only use the loyalty RNG dye., but then again any outfit/costume I do want I will never purchase on principal on this current CS shop (including aspects i would have normally got like extra inventory or even extra character slots etc). 

why would the suggestion of paying a monthly fee for the ability to colour and outfit, for as long as you sub, which then reverts back to the base colour when sub runs out be more viable alternative than forcing people to buy one-time dyes for DAUM/PA as it would reduce profits - same issue with the costumes/outfit or any other item in CS that is overpriced and they have admitted it to being overpriced but won't reduce price till later on year.

You giving suggesting another revenue stream that is the same price as a P2P model, but for dyes only - hell think people would be happy to just pay P2P model and access to everything, and CS shop prices lowered by 80%.

 

It comes down to not "reasonable" compromises - cos so far anything in regards to CS is not reasonable compromise, even though they have ad "extensive time to do market research about potential revenue stream" which they have dropped the ball on as they stated before, not anticipating the amount of interest BDO has in west. 

Its like a job offer you get - They want you badly and you know it, do you ask for standard pay or ask for more with better benefits?

Pretty much same situation applies here inversely:

Consumers want the costumes/dyes badly - prices been jacked up high - your paying no matter what.

Only when the flood petter out will they even consider a change on pricing models, and at that point it will adversely affect those who DID "be loyal and supportive" and pay full price for things.

Look apologies if you think I'm not taking your suggestion seriously, I have, but i'm tired of reading so many threads and posts, and everyone "reasonable compromises"  are always from the actual consumer's point, ironically were paying for their prosperity (well just my initial £100, but that could go a lot to helping many in East Europe customers), yet were the ones that now have to comprise out beliefs and principles just so a publishing company can make a massive profit, which they already admit to.

If you don't like the dye system don't buy the dyes and use your loyalty points, or ask for the ability to craft dyes in game or another solution that is viable other than trying to blind side player base in to "renting the ability to dye".

sorry a bit of rant there: point is stop being apologetic, and don't compromise, cos you have no idea how things will roll out in the future and your suggestion whilst now makes sense to you, may not make sense in 2 years time, because you compromised.

And this is about entitlement, or anything along those lines, this is about principles, when something is wrong you speak up you don't compromise. . 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

And this is about entitlement, or anything along those lines, this is about principles, when something is wrong you speak up you don't compromise. . 

Yup. 100% agree.

You don't compromise: they change it.

If the change is enough; fine.

If it isn't; you keep hammering them.

There is no compromise to have here.

Edited by papry

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Posted (edited)

Nah, read all the posts.

But, don't agree with what your saying, merely cause your already compromising without trying to fight your case of how wrong what they charging in regards to anything in CS.

  /snip

 

 

In an utopia world you can have what is fair, but this is the real world.
There are things you can fight for and other things that are a lost cause, sometimes you can't have all you want and you'll have to bargain.
This is the case.

Daum is a business and they need to make money, we can agree on that.
I believe that the dyes are actually doing quite good, I read of people spending around $60 on them, so it is not in Daum interest to chance the System.

So, established that, a business only listen to customers if they are about  of lose lots of money.
The threat of voting with our wallet by not buying Dyes in this case won't work, because quite clearly there is enough people that are spending enough to cover the missed income coming from you (and me), people who are not buying dyes already, so clearly (we) don't have a vote.
So we can try and fight with our wallet, sadly leaving things as they are, or we can try to offer a viable alternative for both parties.

As you mentioned in your post, my suggestion will make them lose some profit........obviously it is a compromise.
That's why it is called compromise, both parties have a bit to loose, but neither of them will be completely unhappy.
$10 a month just to use the dyes for me is a lot of money but it is still acceptable (not long ago we used to pay $15 a month for a MMO subscription).
At the same time, for Daum $10 means less money from each player, but it also mean that the numbers of player buying dyes will increase, because let's face it, spending $10 knowing what you are getting is better than paying $60 and getting sh:tty Dyes you won't use.

Hopefully more people will buy the dyes because there'd be a clear improvement to the current situation, and in the end the difference in income hopefully will not be too hard on Daum, and the reason why they should accept that small loss of income is because they will have good PR out of it, and they won't end up like Trion.
No one would touch anything Trion makes after the disgraceful way they approached the Cash Shop issue in AA.
Daum surely noticed that and they won't like to end up in the same place by having bad publicity about their greedy Cash Shop, but you can't ask them to lose 50% of their income just so they look fair......you need to be reasonable.

Edited by KICKASS

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Posted (edited)

In an utopia world you can have what is fair, but this is the real world.There are things you can fight for and other things that are a lost cause, sometimes you can't have all you want and you'll have to bargain.
This is the case.


 

/snip

Look completely get you r point I do, and a part of me agrees with you, but this game is only 1 month old, and everyone is still on the new "honeymoon orgamtronic stage" and "look at the shinieees!!!, me want me waaaaant!" - sorry that was uncalled for.

But still its is an honeymoon stage, and like you said our wallets do speak, and the question isn't if they lose profit but when they lose profit, because this growth they having isn't sustainable and they know it too, which is why they already suggested they will lower prices maybe at end of year. Its all matter how desperate you are for what you want, and if you can or cannot live with out at this time - Does your character need to be all black right now in the current outfit/costume you have bought? or can you just wait and rack up your loyalty points and chance the RNG dye system?, also characterization has is one of the MMO dominant selling points, so really if DAUM/PA is about maximizing profit they will keep the dye system as is, and only lower the cost of costume/outfit when revenue stream start to slow down.

What you suggesting (and if it was SWTOR or any other game with a monetized CS I would be on board) is basically telling them here another cash revenue you can tap into right now and still keep the ridiculous prices in the CS, which will be equivalent to double dipping, which I'm sorry I sure as hell can't get on board with.

Mainly cos you already suggesting that they create sub for dyes, when they can easily implement AH trading for dyes that nobody wants.

AND last time i checked Dyes are not P2W they don;t even have stats, so why the hell not put them on AH?

Your suggestion, From my perspective and its reasonable as you thinking from a developer POV is to try to make it so they can still make a profit with whatever they implement.

But really they should simply allow the trading of dyes on AH, give you something other than the money sinks to sink your money into (not that I would be working that hard to get the super expensive dyes).

You've basically suggested a way to complete skip the entire game mechanics that are available in focused on a potential solution that simply earns more revenue, whilst still forcing those who can't or wont pay $10 monthly ( which to me is £7 (sub fee for a game for me is usually £8.99, you can see why i think paying £2 less for a monthly fee for just a dye sub would make me gag, when i can have access to all the game for a sub free and get everything without having to spend silly amounts in CS)), will still pay the asking price on pearl for one time role on dyes which they can't trade nor do they want, but someone else may want them and would pay good silver, but they can't even do that.

There is a solution to this and it isn't throwing good money after bad (dependent on your POV), there are many aspects within the CS that are not P2W, as it currently is there should be no legit reason to not be able to sell or trade dyes on the AH - other than DAUM/PA controls the market max -min range.

Its about good faith and reputation, you already know what happened to AA, yet for some reason people have been praising DAUM/PA for same practice on one of the foundations of what make MMOs so great - character customization.

If any other western developer did the same as DAUM/PA are doing we would "get out out pitchforks and burn the witch", yet here we make excuses for them and defend them, we don't assess them by the same standards as we would a western company, but we should - corporations are global entities that should be held accountable for any morally shady business practices that take advantage of their consumer base, and even admit it that items are expensive in CS - its not like there a is a regulatory body that states this is how much you should charge your player base - or that there is another supplier of pearls within the game (not you bikinipanda!, you the black market, which is another point in itself) - If we don;t hold them accountable who will? Watchdog news reports? I doubt they even know/care about whats going on, and any news/gaming site is too busy gushing over the "fantastic game" and glossing over the CS - you can pretty much bet that MMORPG.com won't have a in-depth review of the CS shop and price comparison against other games such as GW2 - instead they will gloss over it and say "its non game breaking items in CS and its a tad expensive, but you don't have to get anything there if you don't want to, unless you wanna look like a hobo".

£100 = $142.75 - that is more than enough for the majority of players to give a publisher and justify that no more should be given until they sort their CS out.
The game is good, but that does forgive the CS prices or tactics used ever.

The onerous is on a no-known publishing company to not visibly tarnish there fledgling reputation in the west - to not beholden to bad faith "stench" that Trion is currently awash in - I wonder how many people even play any of their products since the AA disaster, I know i don't, and I used to play Rift and defiance but from this point won't touch them even if they gave me lifetime sub on AA.

Question is does Daum/PA wanna be brushed with the same tar as Trion?

 

EDIT: apologies another wall of text, but guess wall of text shows or passionate I am about this issue - don't even do this much typing at work :P

 

 

Edited by SinBringer

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Posted (edited)

In an utopia world you can have what is fair, but this is the real world.There are things you can fight for and other things that are a lost cause, sometimes you can't have all you want and you'll have to bargain.
This is the case.

Nope your assumption is that they have a dominant position.

Fact is they don't have one.

You have the wallet, they are the beggars.

Vote with your wallet.

Consumers aren't the weak here, the company asking for our money to survive are.

So stand your ground until they agree.

Edited by papry

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Posted

Useless  i have my Perfect Dye color  by the release bundle.

O949XLZ.jpg

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Posted

Nope your assumption is that they have a dominant position.

Fact is they don't have one.

You have the wallet, they are the beggars.

Vote with your wallet.

Consumers aren't the weak here, the company asking for our money to survive are.

So stand your ground until they agree.

If you re-read my post, I covered that.

I am already voting with my money by not buying the dies, but my point is, me and you are not actual customers are we, so we don't get to vote (or threat).
There are enough people already covering for the money missing from my and your wallet and quite frankly it looks like we are not missed.

I am already sticking with my principles by not buying Dyes in the current situation, so I am not your average "impulse buyer", but I am wiling to bend over my principles if Daum bends over their greed.
$10 a month is a a compromise I can live with.
So again, we can choose not being able to use any Dyes ever just so we can stick with our principles til we die, or try to offer a solution/compromise that might work for both parties, even if it is not in the best interest of both.

I understand there are people that will never compromise ever, not matter what, and I will never be able to convince them, but personally  I don't agree on this "no compromise" stance at any cost, that's all.
But to each..........

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Posted

If you re-read my post, I covered that.
I am already voting with my money by not buying the dies, but my point is, me and you are not actual customers are we, so we don't get to vote (or threat).
There are enough people already covering for the money missing from my and your wallet and quite frankly it looks like we are not missed.

I am already sticking with my principles by not buying Dyes in the current situation, so I am not your average "impulse buyer", but I am wiling to bend over my principles if Daum bends over their greed.
$10 a month is a a compromise I can live with.
So again, we can choose not being able to use any Dyes ever just so we can stick with our principles til we die, or try to offer a solution/compromise that might work for both parties, even if it is not in the best interest of both.

I understand there are people that will never compromise ever, not matter what, and I will never be able to convince them, but personally  I don't agree on this "no compromise" stance at any cost, that's all.
But to each..........

It's understood you argument about comprimise, but you've already dismissed the fact we are customers because we have purchased the actual game.

Just because we find the CS shop to be unreasonable at this time does not detract the fact we are customers.

Not exactly happy "we wuv you" customers, but customers non the less.

In normal business - you try to keep your current customer base happy, whilst your marketing people try to drive programmes that will rake in more customers.

Right now the only impression I'm personally getting is, "as long as profits are good, and we know CS is is too expensive, we don't really care".

Now maybe its just me, but as they already making a healthy profit (doubt its sustainable in long run, but I'm not in finance/marketing or profit projection, so what I know), your suggestion whilst under any other circumstances or payment model (such as SWTOR or even GW2) I would be more than happy to support, as they have a robust market as it currently is, and give lots of variety within-game in choices of character customisation.

BDO currently has no variety in-game at all, Something that the CM are even admit to by stating they would like to see more armour/costume variety.

IF BDO had the same selection or wide variety armour as GW2/SWTOR (outside the CS) then yes, I would be more on-board with your idea, a possible solution for them to turn a profit whilst allowing users to dye as much as they like.

BUT alas that's not the case.

Right now we have no ability to even trade unwanted dyes in the AH - Something that would would "generate" the illusion of economy, players want choice, the ability to "shop" its something even they know by giving us the option (J key) to preview dyes etc - but they want us to only be able to purchase said dye only via CS.

Dyes are not game/breaking or P2W - and as the control the Min/max value of every item sold on AH, there no feasible reason as to not be able to place dyes on AH, other than the pure simple conclusion some can infer other than greed.

When your being forced to do something against your nature you don't compromise or negotiate - True this isn't a utopian world we wish it to be, but it probably never will be if we compromise and don't even try to fight for our rights.

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Posted (edited)

It's understood you argument about comprimise, but you've already dismissed the fact we are customers because we have purchased the actual game.

Just because we find the CS shop to be unreasonable at this time does not detract the fact we are customers.

Not exactly happy "we wuv you" customers, but customers non the less.

In normal business - you try to keep your current customer base happy, whilst your marketing people try to drive programmes that will rake in more customers.

Right now the only impression I'm personally getting is, "as long as profits are good, and we know CS is is too expensive, we don't really care".

Now maybe its just me, but as they already making a healthy profit (doubt its sustainable in long run, but I'm not in finance/marketing or profit projection, so what I know), your suggestion whilst under any other circumstances or payment model (such as SWTOR or even GW2) I would be more than happy to support, as they have a robust market as it currently is, and give lots of variety within-game in choices of character customisation.

BDO currently has no variety in-game at all, Something that the CM are even admit to by stating they would like to see more armour/costume variety.

IF BDO had the same selection or wide variety armour as GW2/SWTOR (outside the CS) then yes, I would be more on-board with your idea, a possible solution for them to turn a profit whilst allowing users to dye as much as they like.

BUT alas that's not the case.

Right now we have no ability to even trade unwanted dyes in the AH - Something that would would "generate" the illusion of economy, players want choice, the ability to "shop" its something even they know by giving us the option (J key) to preview dyes etc - but they want us to only be able to purchase said dye only via CS.

Dyes are not game/breaking or P2W - and as the control the Min/max value of every item sold on AH, there no feasible reason as to not be able to place dyes on AH, other than the pure simple conclusion some can infer other than greed.

When your being forced to do something against your nature you don't compromise or negotiate - True this isn't a utopian world we wish it to be, but it probably never will be if we compromise and don't even try to fight for our rights.

My view of daums actions and how they ignore simple company strategies is basically this:

 

Edited by Aneko
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Posted

I know you're doing it only so you can drown yourselves in money. I've seen people brag about the $300 they've dropped on dyes just to make their characters outfit perfect. But seriously, we can't all afford that. Even the randomization is shitty. Opening Violet boxes I get reds, opening Blue gives me a black or purple color.  What if I want to make my characters outfit all red? Drop $100 on boxes to get some Okay-ish mix of red dyes and throw them together? I think I could deal with the RGN system, if I got to Permanently keep all the dyes I get, and sell the doubles on the marketplace. You could even make it X pearls to reuse said dye if you're that concerned about raking in money.  But as it is now, the system is absolutely horrible. We already paid for the game, unlike the Korean and RU one. This is a bit much. 

 I feel like we need to keep complaining here so they get the message. What are your guys thoughts? 

The other problem with the RNG is that there are so many variables and shades of colours. I could get a red.. and then never ever get another red of the same shade and finish (gloss/matte etc.)

It's a horrible money grubbing system. Renting dyes which they have in KR is also disgusting. They need to implement a fairer system.

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Posted

The other problem with the RNG is that there are so many variables and shades of colours. I could get a red.. and then never ever get another red of the same shade and finish (gloss/matte etc.)

It's a horrible money grubbing system. Renting dyes which they have in KR is also disgusting. They need to implement a fairer system.

week 17, still trying to get a single black colour >_>

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Posted

My view of daums actions and how they ignore simple company strategies is basically this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP_GOoBPK

 

 

Video doesn't exist - - :S

week 17, still trying to get a single black colour >_>

You can do it!!!!

it only a 3% drop chance with RNG from pearl shop, and 0.1% with loyalty sho :P

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Posted

Video doesn't exist - - :S

You can do it!!!!

it only a 3% drop chance with RNG from pearl shop, and 0.1% with loyalty sho :P

fixed.

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Posted

fixed.

LOL, yeah pretty much get that feeling as well.

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Posted

Haha that video explains it well

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Posted

I find the dye system to be atrocious, it's a borderline scam to be honest.

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Posted

I find the dye system to be atrocious, it's a borderline scam to be honest.

Well, they give you something.. its useless... but its not a pyramid scheme yet

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Posted

I mentioned this on one or two other threads (maybe more, I've slept since then).

I will not spend a single penny to PVRNG the "surprise" dyes. I don't even like 99% of the hideous free ones I got from buying the game.

I will never pay a subscription for dye. Dye rental in a game? No thanks. What kind of stupid crap is that.

A couple things need to happen before I will even consider buying dye.

1. It has to be a permanent purchase (not a one-time use). I buy it, I own it. Just like the costumes, furniture, etc.
2. It has to be re-usable across all characters after purchase.
3. I have to be able to preview it prior to purchase.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE this game. But BDO really needs to chill on the dye system and see what other western games offer. Maybe a little research on incomes per capita and demographics might help in understanding EU/NA players, our purchases, and the amount of money we will invest in a game that we enjoy.

It's really this fking simple. Playing a game is pretty much a hobby, such as making remote controlled model airplanes/cars, or knitting/ceramics, or whatever the case may be. Who in their right damn mind would make an RNG purchase items/components for these hobbies? NO ONE. But the difference between hobby items/components and the BDO dye system is that I know what the fk I'm purchasing.

Let's face it, even gaming e-zines are talking about this. It's time to re-think the system.

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Posted

Its pretty glaring all the paid services still operate as if the game was still free to play, and even high priced for even that.

the dye issue is just one of many. And why I refuse to pay for anything in the pearl shop until things are adjusted adequately. (lowering the price of outfits from 3600 to 2900 is no where near enough)

 

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Posted

GW2 had indeed the best dye system in my opinion. And I know they were making money with those dyes, since some were very rare and you could sell them for millions and millions.

And yes, some dyes don't fit their name. I got a white one (don't remember the name), of course, it was only for one part -_- secondly, it was blue in game, not white anymore!

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