• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

Give Potion Use An Animation


20 posts in this topic

Posted

Simple suggestion:

Give the use of potions an associated animation. This would definitely cut down on most of the spam issues simply because they won't be able to be spammed as they once were.

The game already utilizes a system of diminished bonus while moving, so it could be applied to potions as well. I also think the use animation could be tied across all genders and classes as it is a simple animation of drinking. 

Vindictus has a similar system.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No because I play on USA east and timing shit on a server with 100+ ping is hard.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

This is actually a good idea and increase potion cooldown by alot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Animation is not a good idea right now. Your character need to be on specific state, like standing, or riding a mount.

For example, in water you could not drink potions and save your life.

When the complete system of animation is ready that would be fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Imo I think it would be better to disable pots for PvP altogether, and just scale the damage down. It will make the matches better I think.

 

As for PvE content they honestly seem okay. Maybe increase the CD to 8-10 seconds instead of 5 and combine the HP and MP pot CD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I agree with the idea but not until there's more severs for lag issues it would certainly kick up the difficulty

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Animation is not a good idea right now. Your character need to be on specific state, like standing, or riding a mount.

For example, in water you could not drink potions and save your life.

When the complete system of animation is ready that would be fun.

As shown in vindictus, using a potion CAN be done in these different animation states. Potion use can be used while standing, running, and even used to hide the animation of an actual skill if used correctly. 

And if timing isnt a very good option, we could always go the Daum route and just give it different skill levels that gain higher bonuses as you level the potion use skill and this could be easily attainable by everyone for balance reasons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Simple suggestion:

Give the use of potions an associated animation. This would definitely cut down on most of the spam issues simply because they won't be able to be spammed as they once were.

The game already utilizes a system of diminished bonus while moving, so it could be applied to potions as well. I also think the use animation could be tied across all genders and classes as it is a simple animation of drinking. 

Vindictus has a similar system.

Guys...you really need to chill on the potion stuff until you see pvp with +15 gear...it's an entirely different animal...you can be killed like archeage speed if you can't pop a potion...I wanted longer cd's etc...but with the longer cd and the largest pots gone...we need to all relax.  I promise you, everyone will see and agree once the gear is enchanted.  

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Guys...you really need to chill on the potion stuff until you see pvp with +15 gear...it's an entirely different animal...you can be killed like archeage speed if you can't pop a potion...I wanted longer cd's etc...but with the longer cd and the largest pots gone...we need to all relax.  I promise you, everyone will see and agree once the gear is enchanted.  

So you're basically saying that it's so much worse high level, that once you run out of potion you are dead, whatever you do? :P
Which is totally the mechanics we are discussing to balance because it needs no skills at all to spam pots, and create a carry-to-win version of pay-to-win.

I'm more in favor of a decreasing effect when spamming, though. That way, you can use pot to not instantly die, counter attack, and get a chance to fight back without relying only on how many you carry. (And isn't affected by your latency)

Edited by Skyinou

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

So you're basically saying that it's so much worse high level, that once you run out of potion you are dead, whatever you do? :P
Which is totally the mechanics we are discussing to balance because it needs no skills at all to spam pots, and create a carry-to-win version of pay-to-win.

I'm more in favor of a decreasing effect when spamming, though. That way, you can use pot to not instantly die, counter attack, and get a chance to fight back without relying only on how many you carry.

He's saying the damage is so high at the upper levels that you can be killed before a potion is popped, and with the longer cool down and lack of an extra large potion it's much better than a potion spam. Fights can be over in an instant with enchanted gear especially at +15 and above.

Edited by OblivionSeeker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

So you're basically saying that it's so much worse high level, that once you run out of potion you are dead, whatever you do? :P
Which is totally the mechanics we are discussing to balance because it needs no skills at all to spam pots, and create a carry-to-win version of pay-to-win.

I'm more in favor of a decreasing effect when spamming, though. That way, you can use pot to not instantly die, counter attack, and get a chance to fight back without relying only on how many you carry. (And isn't affected by your latency)I

I'm suggesting that you get there and try it before commenting...you will understand. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I don't know how far most everyone got but even by the end of Closed Beta a Large Potion wouldn't fill my health up to top, and it could be knocked down pretty quickly (under the 5 seconds of cooldown).

The mana pot is still low cooldown if I'm not mistaken. That's more of a concern than the HP. You can spam abilities which is 200% worse than spamming HP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I don't know how far most everyone got but even by the end of Closed Beta a Large Potion wouldn't fill my health up to top, and it could be knocked down pretty quickly (under the 5 seconds of cooldown).

The mana pot is still low cooldown if I'm not mistaken. That's more of a concern than the HP. You can spam abilities which is 200% worse than spamming HP.

yeap...the mana pots are a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

The mana pot is still low cooldown if I'm not mistaken. That's more of a concern than the HP. You can spam abilities which is 200% worse than spamming HP.

FYI, the mana (and also might) pot CD is needed at endgame to actually kill anyone. Chaining all of your class's abilities effectively is more skillful than basic attacks in a feeble attempt to "resource manage". This is coming from the BDO-KR perspective, not the CBT one.
Also, being able to "spam abilities" isn't actually a thing. Black Desert already takes mana potion usage into account by allowing skills to be used on cooldown - but decreasing those skill's effects and damage at the same time during subsequent usages.

Edited by Crit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I made a 900 word post on this, addressing many of the smaller problems that I saw, and all people did was rant about it for a while then let the thread slip. I'm beginning to think that most people would rather complain about the problem than discuss a possible solution. 

Introduction to "Pot Spam"
The ability to spam potions on Black Desert is a salient and serious problem. Currently, all potions can be used instantly, without penalty, and with a short cooldown. This "pot spam" leads to the following problems:

  1. Fights are overextended by "pot spam". A losing player can egress from or stall a fight so they have adequate time to recover HP, and thus, survive - even though they clearly are not skilled enough to beat their opponent. 
  2. "Pot spam" requires no skill. Unlike stamina or cooldown management, no thinking is necessary to use potions. It simply requires the ability to use a potion whenever it goes on cooldown.

Other games have avoided this problem with their own compensatory factors. However, Black Desert is a unique game, and deserves an equally unique solution.



A Possible Solution

Because of the complexity of the issue - and to avoid undesirable side effects - my proposal has multiple components. Be prepared to read.

  1. Introduce a stationary animation to health potions. A player must stand still and quickly "chug" a drink to recover their HP; they cannot move or cast skills while doing so.
    • This will prevent "pot spam" in combat. A player repeatedly using potions will become vulnerable to attacks, as they will be unable to defend themselves or evade.
    • This will introduce a new tactical component to healing. A player must be able to judge when they will have an opportunity to  use a health potion, or must otherwise create that opportunity by CCing their opponent.
       
  2. Introduce a new concept: "animation cancelling" for health potions. By pressing a key (such as Shift) in addition to the normal key for a health potion, a player will be able to use a health potion in the same way they do now - without animation, and with freedom to move or cast skills.
    • Because health potions will normally require an animation, players would be unable to use potions while dazed, grabbed, or prone. However, this would affect game balance, as players would become "squishier" during CC durations (as, right now, a player can continually pot while CCed, increasing their defense). Therefore, a method to preserve this current meta is necessary.
       
  3. Introduce a stamina cost for this "animation cancelling". A player must be willing to sacrifice stamina to perform the feat of drinking a potion instantly, just like dodging and knockdown recovery.
    • Animation cancelling will preserve the current defense of players, but at a cost.
    • This will introduce a tactical component to healing. A player must manage their stamina well to preserve their ability to "animation cancel" - or "instapot" - their health.
    • A player will have more options regarding their defense. Consider the following examples:
      • A player predicts they will be stunned. They can either use their stamina to dodge it, or they can use their stamina to "instapot" after they are stunned.
      • A player gets knocked down. They can either "instapot", or see if they will be able to survive the combo to preserve stamina.
      • A player gets knocked down. They can either "instapot", or use their stamina to recover early. 
    • The no-pot duel meta remains the same as it is now - no pots means no instapotting.
       
  4. Introduce a stationary animation to mounted health potions. The animation will be longer than non-mounted health potion usage.
    • Stamina is not used on horseback; therefore, normal "animation cancelling" will not be a viable solution. 
    • By increasing a stationary animation during mounted combat for health potions, the same problem of removing "pot spam" is resolved.
    • Instead of regular combat's double option of either animated pot recovery (high risk, low cost) or animation-cancelled pot recovery (low risk, high cost), we will have a longer duration animation (very high risk, no cost).
    • Horse acceleration and deceleration abilities and speed will become more important, as a person will need to stop quickly to use a potion during combat and accelerate quickly afterward. This promotes variety in mounted combat style and horse skill selection.
       
  5. Let potions recovering the equivalent of mana remain unaffected.
    • Mana potions don't have significant effects on the problems of overextended fights or lack of skill. 
    • Certain classes rely on mana pots more than others. Leaving mana pots unaffected means the current balance is preserved regarding those classes.
    • Mana management is an old concept, and most players are unfamiliar with it. Adding a skill component to mana management would discourage those players.
       
  6. Let foods remain unaffected.
    • These items have cooldowns too long to be considered part of the "pot spam" problem.
       

 

Conclusion

This is a highly preliminary solution. I expect flaws in my thinking, and many oversights. I also realize that this is merely theoretical - I have not attached any exact numbers, and I am not sure whether it is viable as a solution to the developers of the game. However, that is why I ask for your input. Please let me know what you think and any concerns that you have in the comments below!

Thank you!

 

(Fun fact: I was inspired by the ability of classes to use their basic attack while moving, at the cost of stamina. It occurred to me - in the shower - that this mechanic is an equally elegant solution to our "pot spam" problem.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Imo I think it would be better to disable pots for PvP altogether, and just scale the damage down. It will make the matches better I think.

 

As for PvE content they honestly seem okay. Maybe increase the CD to 8-10 seconds instead of 5 and combine the HP and MP pot CD.

No, because that would destroy some classes that potion hungry as hell.

I think ranger is pretty potion hungry.

err I mean archer..

no ranger?

god I forgot already...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No, because that would destroy some classes that potion hungry as hell.

I think ranger is pretty potion hungry.

err I mean archer..

no ranger?

god I forgot already...

 

It's Ranger haha. Possibly, I forgot about Rangers being potion hungry. Isn't Ranger really the only class that is so potion heavy? I would think making them less potion hungry wouldn't be too hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It's Ranger haha. Possibly, I forgot about Rangers being potion hungry. Isn't Ranger really the only class that is so potion heavy? I would think making them less potion hungry wouldn't be too hard.

pretty sure thats probably the balance out the insane damage output and mobility it has.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'm in favor of this, pot spam is a real issue.

To those bringing up +15-20 as the counter argument, I believe that system is broken as well and shouldn't have a bearing on pots. BOTH need fixed. The cooldown was a step in the right direction, it just needs to be longer and with an animation. Potions are then a risk/reward scenario that needs consideration versus blind use. Enchanting needs a smoother curve so anything +15 or above can't totally destroy everything else. The gap between +15 and +16 even, is too large.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

As shown in vindictus, using a potion CAN be done in these different animation states. Potion use can be used while standing, running, and even used to hide the animation of an actual skill if used correctly. 

And if timing isnt a very good option, we could always go the Daum route and just give it different skill levels that gain higher bonuses as you level the potion use skill and this could be easily attainable by everyone for balance reasons.

I'm not arguing there with you. But without a goood portion of animation and testing this would end in disaster. I think this should be implemented, but not for release, we have a more urgent problems like economy or lack of class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites