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Why PvP should be unlocked at 50 and NOT 45

738 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

i wish they would implement OP's idea so the pve players stop making 19 threads about this a day

i really dont get why people who hate pvp so much play a game that has a LOT of pvp related content

if you want to craft all day i mean there's games for that. there's literally games that all you do is kill mobs and craft. and rp.

but whatever. i just want the argument to stop.

By the same token if all you want to do is pvp all day there are games for that as well.

You mean like delete this:

yFa8BOB.png

I have to agree that this sorta looks like my main (who hasn't touched a mob since level 12 but has gained over 16 levels of combat experience from professions) give or take a few levels in each of the professions. Combat xp should NOT be given to those doing professions, it is silly easy to level in this game as is without being pushed closer to soft cap.  @CM_Jouska

Edited by Sorath

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By the same token if all you want to do is pvp all day there are games for that as well.

the difference is that he ACCEPTS rp'ing, crafting and killing mobs as all part of BDO.

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No, I was trying to point out that the particular point you were making was a hypocritical one. Secondly, I very much wish most people understood it's a debate and everyone is entitled to share their opinion. But, as I've now participated in this debate for what feels like a month, I understand that most of the arguments against PVE-friendly environments are built on logical fallacy. IE. "If this games changes, I'm leaving and everyone else will leave with me." Speaking about what could happen is pointless, as the PVE community can just as easily predict a large fallout of PVE players if the game doesn't nurture their play-style. But the truth is, neither side actually knows what would happen. Furthermore, the "slippery slope" argument is also a logical fallacy. What I really don't understand is why nearly everyone who supports OWPVP feels the need to paint the PVE community with such broad strokes. I don't want any of the things you mentioned.

PVE /= Casual. I don't know when people thought these two characteristics became synonymous. They're not! I raided in a hardcore guild for nearly a decade and have next to nothing in common with my PVE-Casual brethren. I expect to need to earn my gear every bit as much as you do. PVP /= Hardcore. Just because someone may PVP doesn't make them "good" at the game. So, let's get back to seeing people on both sides as a mixture of Casual and Hardcore players rather than lumping us all into one. This continues to be a huge flaw with the con-PVE argument, because it assumes that PVE players want their hands held. I've seen it said more than 50 times by various users in various threads. You and I have a lot more in common than you think we do. But because you persist in thinking that we want to be coddled, you've allowed your fear to dominate the reasoning of your argument. It's fine to want OWPVP to continue to exist and to want to continue to play it. But, at least provide evidence which supports why a PVE-only server is a detriment without baseless speculation and assumption.

And this guy just supported my point. ;)

The guy who supported your point is an inflammatory idiot.  Those exist on both sides of every Internet argument.

Here's my problem with this whole thing: ideas for PVE friendly changes are presented, and the main reason seems to always be "because I want to avoid the threat of being PK'd".  When the idea is challenged, suddenly the burden of proof is on the challengers to show it is a bad idea. Those arguing for the changes don't seem to argue how it makes the game better.  They just don't want the discomfort of knowing their character might be attacked.

Now if those against try to discuss what might happen, it is being cast aside as speculation.  If we talk about the fear of being PK'd being unwarranted, more speculation/discard our experiences as not the norm.  If we mention how PVE only servers could split the population up and tangibly impact the experience of everyone, it's more speculation that can't be discussed.  If we mention that part of the game when you hit 45+ involves threat of pvp to help build community between pveers and pvpers, it is seemingly ignored or we are told we can't tell people how to play.  Every potential topic and argument is deflected without discussion, but the impact of such a decision is exactly what should be discussed.  So what if it is speculation?  Decisions that can affect the long term health of a game should be speculated upon, experiences should be brought to the table, and a decision should be made that doesn't sacrifice the ideals of the game's design. 

I'm not saying I know what those ideals are, but based on how it is designed, emergent conflict after an amount of character growth appears to be designed to allow players the freedom to create their own social experience and build community through working together to overcome threats.  Some players play as bad guys,some as good guys, and the experience develops organically through the player interactions.

That's the world I see created with this game, and I can't think of another mmo that provides the same sort of experience.  When I see these pve friendly suggestions, they seem to selfishly want the game to change so they can keep themselves out of the world and use the game as a personal progression simulator.  How does that help the game be a better form of itself?  Does that not seem like it is driving the game in a different direction?  Why is that even necessary?

Now, should life skills give combat xp? No, I don't think so.  I don't see why they would anyway, and if you want to have a level 5 crafter, I don't see the problem.  However, do I think people should be able to do boss scrolls at 45 without any potential threat?  Not remotely.  Now you are out in that organic world where things happening can be a social experience, and if you don't want to have anything to do with that, then I question the value you bring to the game experience.  It is like playing Counter Strike and deciding you just want to rush the other side with a knife every round, and because that's how you want to play, they should make accommodations for your play-style so you can have fun too.

So really, I see nothing good coming from any change besides removing combat xp from life skills, and even that might make a bunch of people mad who wanted to gain levels from their life skills.  What exactly are these pve friendly suggestions bringing to the table for the health of the game?

I'd be curious to see if any of the arguments for PVE friendly changes aren't based in speculation themselves.  Where is the evidence that supports the fact that Daum should spend time and money to accommodate these selfish requests that help people stay out of the in game world community?  I'm an introverted loner, but I still appreciate what this game seems to be trying to do that hardly any mmos seem to dip their toe into: create communities through open world conflict.  I think they should focus their time and effort on ideas that drive that philosophy forward.  PVE games exist in droves already. 

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Posted (edited)

When the idea is challenged, suddenly the burden of proof is on the challengers to show it is a bad idea. Those arguing for the changes don't seem to argue how it makes the game better.  They just don't want the discomfort of knowing their character might be attacked.

The reason burden of proof is thrust onto con-PVE is because pro-PVE allows for both environments to exist. PVP players would still be permitted to PVP and interact with the game in a way that is fun and meaningful to them. Nothing is actually being removed where a PVE server is added EXCEPT the ability to gank undergeared/underleveled players who had no desire to participate in PVP  to begin with. They're all ready not jockeying for grind spots or existing in your eco-system. So, allowing them to move to another server does not affect you. All other systems remain intact and the game continues to function as it always did for you. However, what changes for PVE players is the freedom to live within the game world without being impeded by PVP players. It's not just grind spots that we want access to, it's complete freedom from the toxic attitudes of PVP players. (You know, the ones that feel the need to call us carebears and casuals.) And having communicated with a large number of PVP players up to this point, I can tell you many of the con-PVE attitudes are insufferable. It's like being forced into the same house with a person you can't stand 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. It's smothering.

PRO-PVE Server means that everyone goes their own way and gets to play the game the way they want. The last time I checked the poll I created, both camps were evenly split.

PVPvsPVE.thumb.jpg.09787d8f2130f0c95bd0d

No PVE server means that one group (PVE) is being forced into an environment they had no desire to belong to.

ForcedOWPVP.thumb.jpg.e2b7603a8c7c8e98ca

Whereas if there are servers which allow for both environments to exist, Daum profits from both play-styles.

DaumProfit.thumb.jpg.087a3f5293adc5b8a5a

So, essentially, by allowing PVE players an environment to play in which supports their play-style, you are helping the game you love by granting it more paths to success. Hence, you are increasing the games population and longevity.

OldAge.thumb.jpg.aa5f2adcb3dcd6b8a48ac4c

Pro-PVE players do not want this game to become Warcraft. They like the game the way it is with the singular exception of OWPVP. People who want instanced dungeons and in-game trading are in a league of their own.

NOWoWClone.thumb.jpg.e2ff1ad719c4ba69e70

The logic for a PVE server is there, you're simply choosing to be blind to it because you'd rather force people to play the game the way you think is right.

 

Edited by ARCHEVALKYRIE
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Posted

@PrimaGoosa

While you do make the point of all being speculation. Lets us use the KR region as an example of locking PvP behind the lvl 50 "Kill the weakened whoever" quest

 

One of the biggest complaints referenced in making that quest a pvp lock goes something like this, "Then 50's can grind at "MY" spot and I can't gank them"

Reference KR--- I have 7 52-57 character on KR, Leveling in Calpheon is much like leveling in a single player game. There's no one there. Why?

Because the world now revolves in other areas not the 1-50 area. Thus making the claim that non PvP players will be stealing all your precious mobs, a mute point.

 

Also if someone decides to not complete aforementioned quest, they will be missing a lot of content. PvEr's are content hounds or that's my observation. Most of them are always complaining on forums, of every game, that they got nothing to do. Now should they choose to lock themselves out of content and merrily grind $$$ and stuff at 49.99 I really want to laugh at them, as most of the competitive part of the game starts after 49.99

 

So tell me what's the real problem with a pvp lock at 49.99 ? You and others won't have as abundant number of people to kill that venture into "YOUR" grind spot? Or is it truly that you and others want the population of the game to dwindle. As casuals will sooner or later get tired of not being able to do anything and leave?

 

Increasing profit for Daum will keep the game running, whatever makes that happen I'm totally for. If it takes locking people out of content then do it.

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having a pve server or pvp opt out will, imo, greatly reduce the risk-reward concept that the basic game is striving for.  from what i have experienced in BDO, the best rewards come from venturing out of safe zones and POSSIBLY  encountering a pvp situation.

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why not unlock  at lvl 10?

with a decent penalty system...... loot drop and bigger guarded zones.....

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why not unlock  at lvl 10?

with a decent penalty system...... loot drop and bigger guarded zones.....

If they institute a perma death option with that Im fine Your character dies you drop everything and start over

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I am out of likes, of course but @ARCHEVALKYRIE and @Arreyanne great posts.

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Posted (edited)

The logic for a PVE server is there, you're simply choosing to be blind to it because you'd rather force people to play the game the way you think is right.

So tell me what's the real problem with a pvp lock at 49.99 ? You and others won't have as abundant number of people to kill that venture into "YOUR" grind spot? Or is it truly that you and others want the population of the game to dwindle. As casuals will sooner or later get tired of not being able to do anything and leave?

 

Increasing profit for Daum will keep the game running, whatever makes that happen I'm totally for. If it takes locking people out of content then do it.

I don't think I made this clear:  I don't personally gank anyone.  I have yet to flag up and fight a single other player in a grind spot.  I don't think grind spots are mine, they are just grind spots.  If someone wants to fight me, then we're in a fight.  If I win, great.  If I lose, whatever.

Do you think I'm blind to the "logic" for a PvE server because I disagree with it?  I think the speculation put forth that split PvE/PvP servers would bring more money in for Daum is shallow at best.  Right now, you have 1 world that they are building.  It's an open world that merges PvE and PvP.  If you only want to PvP, you'd be frustrated by hours and hours of PvE that you have to do to try to keep up.  If you only want to PvE, you deal with the fact that you might have to PvP to compete with grind spots, or generally be attacked.

It's a PvX world that caters to PvX players.  And what about community building via conflict?  PvE players finding and befriending those who have more of an anti-gank mentality to protect them?  Joining a guild that has some of those who prefer PvP and would run around grinding with them/protecting them?  Finding other PvEers for safety in numbers?  Not once have you or anyone else addressed the idea of community development through struggle in an open world.

What does creating a PvE/PvP split in servers do?  For starters, you reduce the population on both.  Population is the lifeblood of an open world game.  Too few people, and things die out quickly.  Second, Daum's time is suddenly split between attending PvE and PvP needs.  What does the PvE population care for guild wars, node wars, etc.?  Are PvPers going to want all of the PvE things?  Should there be a rebalance?  Should PvPers not require as much PvE before they can start PvPing?  The game currently forces PvPers to PvE a lot to keep up in gear, otherwise they fall behind.  I guess the PvP server shouldn't have that, in order to let them play how they want to play too?

Starting down a PvE-road in parallel splits development effort when they could otherwise be working on their PvX experience.  If you work on two parallel paths, who knows how much each will progress?  Are they going to make twice the revenue by splitting the paths, and if they did, does that mean they hire twice the personnel?  If you haven't heard of The Mythical Man-Month, it basically states that throwing additional resources at a task doesn't mean it'll get done faster.

Based on the speculation for a PvE server, how many players do you think will come back and spend money?  How many players spending money will leave if things stay as they are?  What does the trending look like over the next 6 months for both routes?  If more PvE-minded people leave the communities, how long do strictly-PvP servers last?  How long will PvE players be satisfied grinding mobs and doing scrolls?  Will they really not want more PvE?  What PvE will that be?  How many resources will it require?

There are so many long-term considerations to this, and the only argument that keeps cropping up is full Social Justice Warrior:  "let us play how we want to play instead of forcing us to play how you want us to play".  Is the narcissism really so rampant these days that everyone thinks they should always get everything they want?

Do people think I specifically want level 45-49s to be ganked endlessly?  Here, let me break down what I truly want to avoid the petty confusion/labeling:

1.  Normalized AP/DP for PvP situations.  Make AP/DP gains PvE-only, but when you're fighting another player, normalize the playing field.  I think PvP should be about skill, not time spent.

2.  Remove passive mitigation and RNG for PvP situations.  No chance to resist CCs, no chance to evade, no accuracy, none of that garbage that I think ruins the experience.  In a game with iframes, what use is accuracy/RNG?  Dodge things that you need to dodge.  Or block them.  Or add CC resist of different types to different abilities for countering purposes.  But a passive 30+% chance to resist CC for no reason?  Dumb, imo.

3.  Make dyes a palette unlock with unlimited uses when you find a color in one of the boxes.  This one-time use garbage is actually terrible.

4.  Make consecutive potion usage reduce efficacy so you can't just spam potions indefinitely.  Maybe reduce the amount healed by 25%, stacking.  Or increase the cooldown on pots if you have recently been hit by another player.  Potion spam is just silliness in a PvP situation.

5.  Create a public arena that holds occasional tournaments that allows players to sign up and also bet on contestants in each match.  When players bet on contestants, the winners split the total pool, with a 10-15% cut removed by the game for services.  You can only bet once per match, and your winnings are mailed to you.  Make it a simple system, and maybe turn the services fee into the winnings for the actual person in the ring at the time.  Something PvP-focused that could bring the community together for an event.

6.  Remove some of the ridiculous RNG when developing your character.  Instead of getting 1 random Awakening stat out of 30, give the player a pool of 3-5 to choose from every time.  It's insane that a class like Zerk can be so sustain-dependent on 1 single Awakening on 1 single ability, and for those who don't get it after millions of silver, it's extraordinarily disheartening.  There's really no reason to make it so crazy, when you already have to deal with RNG for accessories, gearing (if you don't want to go the forced route), Ultimate-upgrading, etc.

7.  Get out in front of the +16-20 issue of scaling.  Normalized PvP would take care of this.

 

Now, how many of those things do I really think would make the game better?  Truly?  Well, maybe the dye system change, and *maybe* the potion change.  The awakening change I'd like to see, but I don't think it necessarily makes the game better.  The other stuff with normalized PvP and combat-RNG?  That's just how the game is.  It isn't about winning and losing your individual encounter out in the world.  It isn't about having fair fights all the time.  I think it's about telling a story, and some randomness helps keep the narrative interesting and unexpected.

My arguments aren't really about what I want for myself.  I want other things for myself, and some of those I still don't think would be good for the game, necessarily.  My arguments stem from how a split focus breaks the developer's concentration, forces them to try to appease two different crowds, and eventually thins the blood of the game.  I think they should continue down the road of maintaining a PvX open world experience that gives both PvPers and PvEers risk that they attempt to mitigate through community, not segregation.

My concern is that if BDO initially aims to provide a PvX open world experience, then tries to shift direction and cater to segregated communities, all they'll do is lose traction, stumble, and fall.  Instead, I'd like to see them stay the course, stabilize their player base who decide this is the experience they want to be a part of, then help make that experience better with their stable community, instead of half-assing features for segregated communities.

EDIT - I think the "real problem" with a lock at 49.99 and moving PvP to 50 is that boss scrolls are a potential focus for dynamic PvP encounters in the open world, and I think for the best rewards, there should be some risk.  A level 49.99 player could grind all the scrolls they want with absolutely no risk to themselves, and I think that's contrary to the design of an open world PvX game.  Maybe later on in the game's life, shifting the PvP-cap to a higher level will allow players who are behind more freedom from potential PvP to catch up a bit more and it'll be a good idea.  Right now, I don't think it's the right idea for the game.

Want to make your character a true hero with baller gear?  Take the risks.  If you want no-risk handouts, there are plenty of PvE games that will feed you carrots off of the stick happily while continuously attaching more.

Edited by PrimaGoosa

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Posted

 

1.  Normalized AP/DP for PvP situations.  Make AP/DP gains PvE-only, but when you're fighting another player, normalize the playing field.  I think PvP should be about skill, not time spent.

2.  Remove passive mitigation and RNG for PvP situations.  No chance to resist CCs, no chance to evade, no accuracy, none of that garbage that I think ruins the experience.  In a game with iframes, what use is accuracy/RNG?  Dodge things that you need to dodge.  Or block them.  Or add CC resist of different types to different abilities for countering purposes.  But a passive 30+% chance to resist CC for no reason?  Dumb, imo.

 

4.  Make consecutive potion usage reduce efficacy so you can't just spam potions indefinitely.  Maybe reduce the amount healed by 25%, stacking.  Or increase the cooldown on pots if you have recently been hit by another player.  Potion spam is just silliness in a PvP situation.

 

6.  Remove some of the ridiculous RNG when developing your character.  Instead of getting 1 random Awakening stat out of 30, give the player a pool of 3-5 to choose from every time.  It's insane that a class like Zerk can be so sustain-dependent on 1 single Awakening on 1 single ability, and for those who don't get it after millions of silver, it's extraordinarily disheartening.  There's really no reason to make it so crazy, when you already have to deal with RNG for accessories, gearing (if you don't want to go the forced route), Ultimate-upgrading, etc.

7.  Get out in front of the +16-20 issue of scaling.  Normalized PvP would take care of this.

I totaly agree with everything, and its nearly what i would love to see in that game since i started play it.

Saddly, many like the current state of the game, because it dont requier a lot of skill, you just smash down the opponent face your grind time and... that's all. Well nearly ( not suprising that game dont have much respect from "real pvper", )

And personaly, for the me the BDO pvp, is more like :" whatever i dont care a lot" Not that i dont like pvp, that's totaly the opposite.

 

So, i would just be way more happy to see things like you "suggested", but if it never happen i would rather see a total pvp off option ( without using "pve server / channel ) to just enjoy the pve, and avoid that pvp parody.

 

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I just don't think they will make a separate PvE server, I don't think it fits into their vision for the game. If there was one, yes I would move, but I think it's much more likely we can get the PvP level moved back to 50 so we have the quest.

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There are so many long-term considerations to this, and the only argument that keeps cropping up is full Social Justice Warrior:  "let us play how we want to play instead of forcing us to play how you want us to play".  Is the narcissism really so rampant these days that everyone thinks they should always get everything they want?

I read up until this point, when it became clear you persist in the same inflammatory, insulting language that your counterparts do. I've refrained, not because I don't have similar thoughts, but because it undermines my argument by resorting to petty hate-language. If being a SJW means that I support equal opportunities for all people to express their values - yes, I'm a SJW. If being a SJW means that I never needlessly oppress people because I understand it's possible for everyone to have what they want - yes, I'm a SJW. If being a SJW means that I sympathize/empathize with the perspectives of others - yes, I'm a SJW. You are acting every bit as narcissistic as the people you criticize by persisting in working towards getting everything you want. /facepalm

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Posted (edited)

@PrimaGoosa

 

As I stated in another thread I believe the 45 PvP is on, was the right move for the game at release. It would have created a very hateful situation before Mediah, just as you stated, people doing boss scrolls with no pain.

The soft cap has increased, let the Pve'rs have their Win. PA will not increase that lock out to a higher level, I truly believe that. Pve'rs could write 1000's of page, on the forums, once Valencia hits asking for that but I believe it will never ever happen.

 

To experience the game they will sooner or later have to unlock pvp with the kill quest at 49.99. And if they do not do that, they weren't really interested in the game except for a farming simulator. And imho Archeage has a better farming simulator, why I quit

 

Oh and I agree with you concerning the Pve vs PvP server it will divide the community to drastically. Just set the quest unlock like JP and KR and be done with all this bickering

Edited by Arreyanne
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I read up until this point, when it became clear you persist in the same inflammatory, insulting language that your counterparts do. I've refrained, not because I don't have similar thoughts, but because it undermines my argument by resorting to petty hate-language. If being a SJW means that I support equal opportunities for all people to express their values - yes, I'm a SJW. If being a SJW means that I never needlessly oppress people because I understand it's possible for everyone to have what they want - yes, I'm a SJW. If being a SJW means that I sympathize/empathize with the perspectives of others - yes, I'm a SJW. You are acting every bit as narcissistic as the people you criticize by persisting in working towards getting everything you want. /facepalm

At least it's clear you definitely didn't read past that point, because I'm arguing against PvE-friendly mechanics from the perspective of the game's current design and perceived design direction, not myself and what I want.  I'm specifically not getting many things I would personally want with the game (outlined above), and I wouldn't even ask for them because I don't think they would necessarily be good for the health of the game overall.  You and others appear to be arguing for PvE-friendly mechanics for yourself to get what you want for you, regardless of how it might impact the game.

The main reason I'm persisting on this thread is because I think this particular request could do actual damage to the future of the game.  I think an open world game like BDO is the sum of all of its parts, and if you start snipping or segregating pieces, all you'll do is create a brief period of enjoyment followed by a slow realization that those parts themselves aren't necessarily sustaining with just themselves.  PvP stays exciting because for many people, it doesn't always happen.  Most of the time you're just out in the world, something happens with you or a guildie, and PvP grows organically from PvE.  The PvE is a pretty shallow experience between running across the world, grinding mobs, doing your dailies, and fighting scroll bosses that are mechanically dull.  The risk for PvP spices that experience up, makes you stop and think where you want to farm, when you want to farm there, etc.  Life skills give you a break from the world and let you sit down and relax with some fishing, cooking, testing recipes, gathering up materials.  They break the monotony of doing the same PvE tasks over and over, and they make that break worthwhile.

The breadth of things to do allows each system to be relatively shallow, because the interesting components often come from a relationship between systems.  Strike one out, and you shine the light on what remains, exposing flaws and shortcomings much more easily.

Also, I'm genuinely surprised you don't realize that not everyone can have exactly what they want, because many times what people want is mutually exclusive.  How do you reconcile what two people want if they want opposing things?  You say a PvE server makes PvP people happy, and PvE people happy, so you assume everyone is happy?  What about PvX people who want to try to preserve a strong population instead of splitting it across even more servers/channels?  

And I'd be more sympathetic to PvE-friendly options if they appeared to spend even just a single heartbeat wondering how it might be beneficial and foster community to put PvP and PvE into the same house.  As much as I disagree with the level 50 PvP cap at this point in the game's life on NA, at least it tries to compromise.  Removing combat exp from life skills goes even further to compromise, though maybe it's by design that after so much life-skilling, your character is "mature" enough to deal with potential threats in the real world, so they then expose your character to those threats.

@PrimaGoosa

 

As I stated in another thread I believe the 45 PvP is on, was the right move for the game at release. It would have created a very hateful situation before Mediah, just as you stated, people doing boss scrolls with no pain.

The soft cap has increased, let the Pve'rs have their Win. PA will not increase that lock out to a higher level, I truly believe that. Pve'rs could write 1000's of page, on the forums, once Valencia hits asking for that but I believe it will never ever happen.

 

To experience the game they will sooner or later have to unlock pvp with the kill quest at 49.99. And if they do not do that, they weren't really interested in the game except for a farming simulator. And imho Archeage has a better farming simulator, why I quit

 

Oh and I agree with you concerning the Pve vs PvP server it will divide the community to drastically. Just set the quest unlock like JP and KR and be done with all this bickering

I see your point on the soft-cap increase relieving some pressure on the focus of boss scrolls as a potential area for conflict, but I still think boss scrolls in the non-Mediah regions are popular enough that I think they should be a competitive aspect.  I could be wrong, but that's my perception.  Once a future patch releases more popular end-game foci and scrolls are just an older catch-up mechanism, I'd agree that it's fine to let people use them in peace before joining the frontlines.

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I see your point on the soft-cap increase relieving some pressure on the focus of boss scrolls as a potential area for conflict, but I still think boss scrolls in the non-Mediah regions are popular enough that I think they should be a competitive aspect.  I could be wrong, but that's my perception.  Once a future patch releases more popular end-game foci and scrolls are just an older catch-up mechanism, I'd agree that it's fine to let people use them in peace before joining the frontlines.

I dont really agree, i mean, pve is pve. Bring """"""competition"""""" for mob, so for loot, in a game where gear to way too important for the pvp, is just dumb as fk. ( for obvious reasons )

There was somes thread about ppl relating guild beeing on many channel for world boss, then forbiding access to thoses boss to other ppl with pk.

You sure still can find whatever pseudo justification about "cruel world / you have to fight & yadi yada", so like it create ""interaction"", but the only reality i see there, its only allow geared ppl to prevent other to have access to loot, so progression, so that sort of pvp competition.

 

Bring "pvp" """""""""""""competition"""""""""""""""" around thoses loot is just a lazy ass move to not create more fun & interesting pvp game in the game.

Like, wouldnt it be more to have some convoy supplying town ( so have action over npc stock / price / how much they could buy your fish & so ) so have player beeing able to join some "npc thief clan" to steal thoses convy and earn reward, so have guard clan, to defend thoses... etc.

That's also why, i suppose they wanted to create trader - religion guid, SO player trading,  to give more interest reason for pvp.

So like, node war / siege are interesting pvp reasons.

 

That's also why i more that strongly assume the pvp lvl 50 cap + quest, have been set in the first place to make ppl enter pvp correctly geared up, so make ppl enter the pvp in a "balance" situation. ( Sure, they destroyed that with the soft cap increase  +20 & awakening )

 

So, starting to be paranoid, because ppl think the whole goal of the game is to kill other for loot...that's pretty much .. well... /facepalm. Well, ppl have the right to play like that if they have fun that way, but, we should have some "opt" to not play that dumb part ( personal opinion ) and keep the pvp for more interesting reasons.

 

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There was somes thread about ppl relating guild beeing on many channel for world boss, then forbiding access to thoses boss to other ppl with pk.

You sure still can find whatever pseudo justification about "cruel world / you have to fight & yadi yada", so like it create ""interaction"", but the only reality i see there, its only allow geared ppl to prevent other to have access to loot, so progression, so that sort of pvp competition.

See, when something like happens, everyone else should band together and kill them dead across as many channels as possible.  If you were part of a movement that killed some bully guild at boss spawns and made them tuck tail, you'd remember that story forever.  Or if you at least tried, but you lost and didn't quite push them off, maybe you'd have reason to start picking them off out in the world, or build up a community against them to try to keep them down and out somehow (other popular spots, etc.).  Hit and runs.

That's how emergent conflict and community is built.  Sure, PvP isn't exactly balanced.  Maybe many of those people would be extraordinarily difficulty to kill.  But maybe some random folks from other guilds would be just as farmed, and they would end up turning into names you recognize.  Maybe you'd make a friend or two in the process.

But what probably happens is everyone just bows their head and walks away, frustrated that the game allows the other players to do that.  That's kind of my whole point:  an open world allows for organic stories to be told.  Sure, some people are the bad guys, but good stories have antagonists that you feel strongly about.  You get involved with the story, and that's OK.  I think that's exactly what this game is trying to do, and I think suggestions are trying to sap that potential from the game.  I don't think that's good for the game's future, even if it leads to some people leaving in the short term because that isn't quite what they want out of the game.

It's fine to not want that, but why shouldn't it exist in one game amidst a sea of other games of the same genre that are more friendly to strictly PvE needs?

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PvP should be unlocked at lvl12 so that the riff-raff knows right off the bat what the deal is.

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I don't know or care about BDO in RU, KR, or JP.  This is BDO in NA.  If anything, they probably bumped the cap down a few levels because people were clamoring for OWPvP as soon as humanly possible.  I'd put money on that bet.  Now another crowd is clamoring to change it.

The only guarantee is that someone will be clamoring for change.

Honestly, I don't have any concerns with how the game currently is.  I have concerns with the direction that a selfish group is trying to take it, for no better reason than "I don't like the idea of being PK'd".  It isn't that the game funnels everyone into the same core area and you're constantly being griefed.  It isn't that there are no channels to escape to.  It isn't that you're being GY camped into oblivion.  It's the thought that PvP might happen.

Sometimes there are downsides to a game.  Sometimes there's risk.  Maybe if MMO communities took a half-second and appreciated a game for what it had instead of lamenting ceaselessly over what it doesn't, people might be happy for a while instead of pining over the next new hype that comes along.

I'd love to hear how changing the cap back would make BDO a better game and enhance its open-world experience.  I really would.  I just have yet to see a single argument that isn't based in irrational fear.

I would ask that you read more than just the bolded section, but bolded the part that answers your question without any irrational fear whatsoever.  No irrational fear of PK, no irrational fear of KS, and no irrational fear of any acronyms at all.

Of course you don't have concerns with how the game is right now, it was already changed to accommodate people with the concern you had (prior to the change) regarding PvE players prancing through level 50+ areas.  I'm not asking you to care about any of the other versions of the game, I'm asking you to take a closer look at this one. 

I do appreciate the game for what it is, which is why I play it.  I also appreciate the game for what it's supposed to be, and how it has been coded to be from the very beginning, which is why I play it.

Moving the cap back to where the quest for it actually is and always has been will be better for the game because currently, exactly the same thing can be accomplished but requires people to spend hours killing their own toons to bring their XP back down.  That, by any measure, is just a profoundly idiotic solution to the problem in the long run, particularly considering there is already a perfectly good solution already coded right into the game.  It's a stop-gap measure hastily implemented.

Moving the cap back to what it is supposed to be will have no effect on your gameplay whatsoever once more higher level content is released.  It will have a profoundly positive effect on the people who choose to play the game in one of the various ways it is meant to be played.  IE. Using a developer designed and coded cap to avoid PvP, while accepting that means not having access to the newest and greatest content.  Yes, there is more than one acceptable way to play the game, and that's okay.  It was specifically designed and coded that way.

Now who's being selfish here?  If you really want to look at it that way.  Your word choice.

*************************************

Taking the time and resources to move the quest, and rearrange any quests dependent upon it, down to 45 would not make sense considering having the pvp level at 50, where the quest actually is, will be a non-issue once you can prance in higher level content without PvE players prancing in higher level content with you.

Why is everyone prancing?  I don't know, I just started typing it and never went back.

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ck to where the quest for it actually is and always has been will be better for the game because currently, exactly the same thing can be accomplished but requires people to spend hours killing their own toons to bring their XP back down.  

I have yet to actually see a good argument against moving it back to 50.

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No offense, and this may have been brought up already in the 24 pages which I refuse to read in full, but why not try a pve game like final fantasy if you absolutely do not want to pvp?
In my opinion, Black Desert caters well to both pve and pvp players. Perhaps a few things could be tweaked so the pve players can play a little more comfortably without getting griefed all the time, but there are plenty of things you can do in safe zones.
The problem is this game is meant to be enjoyed by all, and catering to pve players would drive away the pvp player base, and vice versa.
But for someone who is truly anti-pvp, and I'm really not intending this to sound rude, but perhaps this game isn't for you.

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No offense, and this may have been brought up already in the 24 pages which I refuse to read in full, but why not try a pve game like final fantasy if you absolutely do not want to pvp?
In my opinion, Black Desert caters well to both pve and pvp players. Perhaps a few things could be tweaked so the pve players can play a little more comfortably without getting griefed all the time, but there are plenty of things you can do in safe zones.
The problem is this game is meant to be enjoyed by all, and catering to pve players would drive away the pvp player base, and vice versa.
But for someone who is truly anti-pvp, and I'm really not intending this to sound rude, but perhaps this game isn't for you.

As designed, the game is fine.  It stopped being fine when they moved the pvp cap 5 levels below the quest designed to let people choose how they want to play the game.

No need for anyone to go anywhere, just a need to fix what they intentionally broke as a temporary stop-gap measure.

Even some indication, some deadline, as to when they will be able to put things back as they should be would go a long way.

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No offense, and this may have been brought up already in the 24 pages which I refuse to read in full, but why not try a pve game like final fantasy if you absolutely do not want to pvp?
In my opinion, Black Desert caters well to both pve and pvp players. Perhaps a few things could be tweaked so the pve players can play a little more comfortably without getting griefed all the time, but there are plenty of things you can do in safe zones.
The problem is this game is meant to be enjoyed by all, and catering to pve players would drive away the pvp player base, and vice versa.
But for someone who is truly anti-pvp, and I'm really not intending this to sound rude, but perhaps this game isn't for you.

I am always impressed with people who "refuse" to read something yet feel compelled to answer. And not only has your "point" been brought up in this but in many other threads as well at least 283764545 times. From "maybe this game is not for you" to "gtfo and play WoW scrub". I find neither of them polite nor respectful because while one is a clear insult, the other assumes somebody is so weak minded they play the game without knowing what they play. 

Perhaps they could just bring back the quest that was taken out in our version only and exist in original KR version?

The problem is that too many PvP players dont want this game to be enjoyed by all, they want only their playstyle to be catered and pampered and have absolutely no interest to understand or make compromises. The only "players base" that could implementing the quest back "drive away" would be gankers and I fail to understand why would any game want to have that kind among its players.

Edited by Kat

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i dont think anyone cares if its 45 or 50 before they do pvp, i think its just the quest lock that needs to be moved with the level,

when i hit 45 i didnt know pvp started then, its when i hit 49 i got the quest to unlock level 50 and be able to do pvp,

 

if its 45 then the quest needs to be moved to 44 to unlock 45, tbh it seems half assed to move the level and leave the quest that still actually says do this quest to unlock pvp

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At first I disagreed because what should you be afraid of. Then I agreed because just doing life skills levels you towards inevitable random PvP. Then I strongly disagreed when I realized that if you could avoid hitting pvp level while still killing mobs it would cause people who grind in pve to quit the game because they would be getting trolled by people who refuse to level.

 

I believe the answer is to remove exp gain from life skills. This stops you from leveling up EVENTUALLY. The exp gain from killing mobs and your eventual leveling needs to stay. If you decide to participate in pve mob-killing content and compete with other players for grind spots then you have to be at risk like the rest of us.

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