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Why PvP should be unlocked at 50 and NOT 45

738 posts in this topic

Posted

I always waffle on the inside when I think about retribution systems.  On one hand, I don't think open world games necessarily need to be fair.  Even the system message for dying from criminal activity sometimes says "unfairly killed".  A lack of fairness makes the world feel more real to me, and sometimes you have to swallow your pride and accept the fact that someone stronger killed you.  Trust me, that part pains me on the inside at the time, but after I have time to think about it, I can appreciate the experience.

On the other hand, retribution systems sound really cool on paper when I think about them.  My biggest issue is any sort of bounty/reward system placed on killing another player can almost always be abused, where you end up with friends of the PKer just taking the reward by killing him themselves.  There are some superficial ways around it, such as "you can't collect a bounty on someone in your friends list", or "you can't collect a bounty on someone in your guild", etc.  How frustrated would you be, though, if you put a bounty on someone, and then their friend picked it up from you?  Would you feel justice, or a deeper sense of injustice?

The best I can come up with is that bounties placed are individual and set at some static number, like 50,000 silver or 100,000 silver.  You can only place a single bounty on someone per day, or maybe you can place as many bounties as times that person killed you.  Each time a bounty is placed, it can be collected by 1 person (whoever gets the killing blow, for example), and that person can only collect 1 bounty from a player per day.  That way, if someone has 1,000,000 worth of bounty on his head, he technically has, let's say, 10x 100,000 bounties, and a group would have to run a train on the guy to collect all of the money.  I believe there's already an NPC that helps lead you to a certain named individual in the world, so you would be able to hunt the person down that way.

Also, I really disagree that the game incentivizes PKers ruining the experience of others.  In fact, a PKer gets almost nothing for PKing.  Sometimes you might secure a grind area, but randomly killing AFKs?  All you do is rack up negative karma and force yourself to either grind it off to get into towns, or I guess wait it out until there's a pirate city.  Either way, you get no drops or anything, so the game does a decent job (I think) of managing the negatives to killing people.  There were several threads near the beginning of the game's release of people suddenly realizing they are at max negative karma and they are being chased away by guards, and that the detriments were too severe for PK.

As far as PKKing, that's the sort of guild I would personally join in a heartbeat.  In fact, I started a PKK guild on the Deathwish server of AoC (released with new, more hardcore OWPvP rules years after the game released.  If you ever want to support your point about OWPvP/PK being harmful to a game, you can always reference the flash-in-the-pan of that server, since it was basically killed by a mega-guild recruiting everyone they could, not having much competition, and quitting), and although we didn't really pick up much steam, there were a surprising number of people willing to be a part of that even in that small community.  Heck, if I saw an outlaw attacking someone else out in the world in BDO, I'd probably jump in.  I just never even really see red names period.

Yes, I am aiming for an idyllic version of the game, because I think we should try to push the game towards what it seemingly wants to be.  At the end of the day you're right, we have to eventually be realistic, but I don't think it's too much to make sure that if you want to push your character's gear level, you have to take some risks.  And it's interesting to me that it's just accepted that those who prefer PvP have to often spend large amounts of time PvEing, but if a PvEer often has to face the idea of even maybe PvPing, there's an issue with the game.  I still understand that PvE is more generally popular, and I get that PvE is often more accessible/forgiving/less frustrating.  However, why can't there be systems in place for someone who just wants to PvP in BDO?  For example, make an arena that gives you X skill points, and normalizes AP/DP/other stats for each class.  That way, you can have a level 5 gladiator who only participates in organized arena PvP if you want, without having to go through all the PvE in the game.  The biggest problem with a system like that, though, is all the time and resources they'd have to spend on it for a questionable amount of return.  That's my main argument against things like PvE-only servers/channels.  

I still think there are very reasonable solutions to the problem.  I just think it should always be at top-of-mind that the game is an open world game, and balancing risk and reward is very important to making the world feel immersive and "real".  To me, anyway.

A bounty system whereby friends and guildmates can't collect wouldn't be foolproof, but I'd like the sound of that. 

One of the best PvP experiences I had was in AoC, by the way. :) It wasn't anything grand; just tracking down a player on my ranger who had pinned my lowbie to the res pad for too long and giving them a kicking - they were ten levels above me, but I gave them as many beatings as they'd given me earlier. Fun times. I spent about four hours chasing their cowardly ass around the map treating them like a pin cushion. I'm a vengeful player when people behave like that.

PKers who hunt players who are AFK do it because it is fun for them. I get that karma loss is meant to be a deterrent, but there's always a small contingent of players whose enjoyment of knowing they've cost a player hours of skilling far outweighs the punishments.

Another problem is that players aren't great at organising themselves against these sorts of players. They just fill the chat with complaints sometimes. I think we need a bounty system to act as a reward so players will actually do something about situations like those - a game can stop being fun for a PVEr very quickly if the frustration of losing progress outweighs the fun of gaining progress.

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Posted

Well you are playing a mmo.... OFC you have a large pve part. I dont see why you speak about that, since you, yourself spoke about the open world coherence & so.

But sure, it would be viable to have some system that reward you enough if you only pvp ( like GW2 do as exemple with the WvWvW )

That's also a very different topic tho.

Well in THIS particular MMO, I think balancing enough PvE to keep you out in the world and enough PvP to keep it interesting/thrilling is important.  However, I don't see why we have to hold the entire genre to the idea that you *have* to PvE a lot if you mostly want to PvP.  GW2 did a great job (imo) of balancing that out and giving players options.  I'd love to see more of that overall, especially if for something like a normalized arena, they incorporate even just a simple betting system and hold events that the community can come spectate.  That just seems like it'd be a cool thing to have in a world, while offering PvPers a place to do more PvP than PvE if they choose.

And it would fall under the "well it wouldn't affect you so why are you arguing against it?" method of debate that seems to be prevalent for PvE-based solutions.  I personally hate that argument and think it's false, but a place for PvPers to go organized PvP that makes sense within the context of the greater world?  Sign me up if it ever happens.  I just think it's too much work to actually make happy any time soon, if ever.

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Posted

Well in THIS particular MMO, I think balancing enough PvE to keep you out in the world and enough PvP to keep it interesting/thrilling is important.  However, I don't see why we have to hold the entire genre to the idea that you *have* to PvE a lot if you mostly want to PvP.  GW2 did a great job (imo) of balancing that out and giving players options.  I'd love to see more of that overall, especially if for something like a normalized arena, they incorporate even just a simple betting system and hold events that the community can come spectate.  That just seems like it'd be a cool thing to have in a world, while offering PvPers a place to do more PvP than PvE if they choose.

About BDO, well, the devs "changed" their oiginal vision for many point since 2012, and now they have only set the "pvp" like for other random mmo as a activity you do once you have over farmed the pve.

There is ofc way better way to set that, so activities to offer, but that's their call tho.

 

But its also not the topic here xD

Create a suggestion about that ;)

 

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Posted

Yes, I am aiming for an idyllic version of the game, because I think we should try to push the game towards what it seemingly wants to be.  At the end of the day you're right, we have to eventually be realistic, but I don't think it's too much to make sure that if you want to push your character's gear level, you have to take some risks.  

Except with enough time and effort you can pretty much have top tier gear by just buying it, putting it on a lvl 5 character and going merrily about your business. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, actually I like it, but saying if you want good gear you have to be PvP level in BDO and accept the risks of PK just isn't true. No level restrictions on equipment, I don't think anything is bind on drop, (could be wrong about that).

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Posted

Except with enough time and effort you can pretty much have top tier gear by just buying it, putting it on a lvl 5 character and going merrily about your business. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, actually I like it, but saying if you want good gear you have to be PvP level in BDO and accept the risks of PK just isn't true. No level restrictions on equipment, I don't think anything is bind on drop, (could be wrong about that).

pretty much this. And I like it that way as it gives a slower yet more sure way to get gear without rng to be involved.

Now if pa wanted to encourage people to go over the pvp threshold they should keep a lock at 45 clearly stating that pvp stats if you go beyond.

They should also provide incentives for a pver to do so, like a life skill buff. Like only level 45 beyonders get the super rare 100000 fish, or get a substantial gain in farming, gathering, processing.

This way pver could stay under the pvp level until they feel ready, added if pa wanted everybody to engage in PvP they actually give the pvers a nice incentive to do so instead of just blindly forcing em

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Posted

Except with enough time and effort you can pretty much have top tier gear by just buying it, putting it on a lvl 5 character and going merrily about your business. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, actually I like it, but saying if you want good gear you have to be PvP level in BDO and accept the risks of PK just isn't true. No level restrictions on equipment, I don't think anything is bind on drop, (could be wrong about that).

That isn't really the point.  I've said many times that risk/reward management is important.  You can AFK fish 24/7 and earn your way into full +15s and good accessories, but that no risk means that it's going to take you a looooooooooooooooong time to do so.  If you want to do life skills and build a trade empire, it might take less time than AFK fishing, but it's still going to take quite a while.

If you want to do boss scrolls and be out in the world collecting valuable drops, it's probably going to take you even less time.  I think this is the line where PvP should be enabled so risk kicks in to offset the increased reward, at least for the time being while this content is still relevant and frequented.

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Posted

I wish they just put in a flagging system so we don't keep accidentally attacking people, boats, wagons and horses...

That can happen? That sucks. 

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Posted

Since they still ignore the pvp lvl cap, lets bump thoses threads

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Posted

With every maintenance they say  they "fix" bugs and stuff, but they never seem to be able to fix this one. How hard can it be? We have been asking for it  almost since the game lauched.

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Posted

With every maintenance they say  they "fix" bugs and stuff, but they never seem to be able to fix this one. How hard can it be? We have been asking for it  almost since the game lauched.

Yeah it's almost like they don't agree with what you want O.o

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Posted

Looks like a definite amount of users ranting everyday on the same subject isn't a "meaningful amount of user requests" in their eyes.

And there is no point to bumping 4 or 5 threads about the same subject in a row. It's just annoying.

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Posted

Since they still ignore the pvp lvl cap, lets bump thoses threads

It takes a real lazy person to use one sentence to revive real old threads like this.  Things have change since then.  Why don't you start your own thread and make an argument yourself.

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