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Weapon enchanting

27 posts in this topic

Posted

Can someone explain to me how this is even possible? According to some quick calculations the average number of failstacks to get from +13 to +14 should be 9. The odds of getting 45 failstacks must be less than 1%. This is making me increadibly frustrated since I've lost so many millions by just being unlucky, and I'm also way behind my friends gear-wise because of this stupid enchant. I can not see the reasoning behind capping the percentage increase at 25 stacks, this makes no sense whatsoever. 

These kind of mechanics work in Asia but not in the western world where systems lacking "fairness" frustrates people to no end. Please make the "force enchant" option viable by reducing the number of stones needed until there's a 50% chance to lose/gain stones by using it, or just the remove the 25 fail stack limit.

fails.png

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Posted

Can someone explain to me how this is even possible? According to some quick calculations the average number of failstacks to get from +13 to +14 should be 9. The odds of getting 45 failstacks must be less than 1%. This is making me increadibly frustrated since I've lost so many millions by just being unlucky, and I'm also way behind my friends gear-wise because of this stupid enchant. I can not see the reasoning behind capping the percentage increase at 25 stacks, this makes no sense whatsoever. 

These kind of mechanics work in Asia but not in the western world where systems lacking "fairness" frustrates people to no end. Please make the "force enchant" option viable by reducing the number of stones needed until there's a 50% chance to lose/gain stones by using it, or just the remove the 25 fail stack limit.

fails.png

It's RNG

Better try enchant on other character and keep this 45 stacks for +17/+18 in future. 

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Posted

RNG is RNG, even if there were a 99% chance to succeed it would be possible for someone to be super unlucky and get 100 fails or more. And likewise with a 1% chance of success someone could got 1-15 in 15 stones as well, also what is knows as outliers in statistics

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Posted

This is for the Korean version but at least it's something to go by.

bdo_fail_stacks.png.d2280d49a9556270326fcd3566355f27.png

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Posted (edited)

Keep this stack for some high level accessories you want to upgrade later.

Switch to an alt and build up a fresh smaller stack there. RNG is evil, so you just need to work around it. If you waste this huge stack to get to +14 one day you will regret it.

Stacks are like investments. Higher they are, the more they are worth. Save it for later.

They have already lowered the force enchant requirements twice, and they have already stated they have no interest in changing the system. I wish they did, cause I hate RNG. But we have no control over this, and virtually no influence.

Edited by Luciferia
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Posted

lol going up to 45 failstack on +13 , you're just being dumb. 
force that shit +14 then use your stacks to make some duo:witch earing or duo:mark of shadow.

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Posted

Can someone explain to me how this is even possible?

fails.png

Because there is a hard cap on success %.

After you pass that hardcap it's still a weighted fractional equation, just like the rest of them.

 

Don't even begin to mention RNG unless you're aware of how it works in this situation, IE. Vidieah Gaemz.
After reading 90% of the posts based on RNG on these forums, I've come to the conclusion that very few if any people actually know how "RNG" works in relation to.

 

For those who think PA uses entropy, lolpls.

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Posted

It's RNG

Better try enchant on other character and keep this 45 stacks for +17/+18 in future. 

RNG is RNG, even if there were a 99% chance to succeed it would be possible for someone to be super unlucky and get 100 fails or more. And likewise with a 1% chance of success someone could got 1-15 in 15 stones as well, also what is knows as outliers in statistics

Don't even begin to mention RNG unless you're aware of how it works in this situation, IE. Vidieah Gaemz.
After reading 90% of the posts based on RNG on these forums, I've come to the conclusion that very few if any people actually know how "RNG" works in relation to.

 

For those who think PA uses entropy, lolpls.

I'm very much aware it's RNG but that's why I think the system is bad, at least after you've reached the 25 stack limit where it no longer increases your odds of succeeding. RNG should only be used for drops, since then it will never punish you, it just wont reward you. Here we have a mechanic that takes huge chunks of your money unless you're lucky, which is frustrating. It's not even a real gold sink, and I see no reason to keep it like this.

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Posted

I'm very much aware it's RNG but that's why I think the system is bad.

Explain to me how you think RNG plays it's part in this game.
I'd love to see what people actually think about the system, since they bring it up quite often like they know how it does.

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Posted

Explain to me how you think RNG plays it's part in this game.I'd love to see what people actually think about the system, since they bring it up quite often like they know how it does.

Very simple. RNG brings outliers on both ends who recieve too much/nothing at all. Which is ok as long as it doesn't punish you like this system is. 

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Posted (edited)

Very simple. RNG brings outliers on both ends who recieve too much/nothing at all. Which is ok as long as it doesn't punish you like this system is. 

I meant from a logical code based standpoint.

RNG is used for nothing more than percentile based equations in this situation/example.

So by saying that you dislike RNG in your upgrading, you're effectively saying that you'd rather all of your upgrades be static.
Which, in a sense... They are.

You can use 30 stones to go up a level.

 

Other than that, this big monster under the bed crap is nothing more than randomly generated numbers being used against a weighted if statement lol.

So basically.

if { Math.Random() >.50 && <.60, true).

[This gives you a 10% success chance assuming the numbers are being rounded to the nearest tenth, which, according to the pseudo code, they aren't. As I did not include a round function.]

This is the only way, to my knowledge, to do this.

I am not sure how you people think it works, but this is the way it works.

 

Don't comment on my shit pseudo code pls kthx.

Edited by War

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Posted

I have +3 but I just forced 10-11 and will do so for 12-15.

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Posted

OP I think we can all empathize with you, it is certainly frustrating to fail that many times. I feel for you but stick to it, things will work out and those stacks will come in handy. 

I dont think they will change the mechanics for fail stacks, they had to know some people would get the upgrades easier while others would not and most certainly they have seen this in the other regions. 

Move to an alt save those fail stacks for later they are extremely valuable and that is how you should view them. Let out a scream, punch a baby, whatever you need to do, then change your perspective to be one of how useful the fail stacks will be when you have 2 oger rings you will be happy you have that many stacks built up, well hopefully anyway. And at some point they will help you get a leg up if used on the correct items.

Heck last night, I think, I saw someone get +14 and a few minutes later +15 on the reblath shoes trying to build stacks, now that has to be frustrating if you are on Edan you could start a support group and go kill some horses to let you the rage! :) 

RNGesus-Picture.jpg-nggid0540007-ngg0dyn

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Posted

I have +3 but I just forced 10-11 and will do so for 12-15.

Statistically you will be spending more doing it that way. But it is an option of you hate the RNG that much. Just means u will have to wait longer to upgrade.

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Posted

Rng can be a ----- i feel for you. Use those failstacks to make +2 accessory or smth

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Posted (edited)

Statistically you will be spending more doing it that way. But it is an option of you hate the RNG that much. Just means u will have to wait longer to upgrade.

Possably I need 31 Yuria staffs and (91 I think ) Weapon stones.

ill Either save up for it or join every boss scroll fight I can .

Edited by Lasarith

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Posted (edited)

I have +3 but I just forced 10-11 and will do so for 12-15.

That seems.... a little excessive if you plan on doing all your other gear the same way, you will waste so much money.  Honestly, rng sucks like no other, but your best bet is to go to like +12 or +13 before you start forcing.  You'll end up saving money in the end that way.  Hell, if you're going that rout you might as well just save all your blackstones and yurias, sell them, and buy yourself an already +15 set of gear.

Edited by Rozett

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Posted

That seems.... a little excessive if you plan on doing all your other gear the same way, you will waste so much money.  Honestly, rng sucks like no other, but your best bet is to go to like +12 or +13 before you start forcing.  You'll end up saving money in the end that way.

(Shrugs) dunno but I CBA with the RNG.

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Posted (edited)

(Shrugs) dunno but I CBA with the RNG.

They do have a point. If you are willing to wait that long, you might have the money to just buy a +15 outright. I would have done it myself but I'm impatient :) The 29 stones it takes to go from 14-15, and the repair costs alone are probably close to half the cost of buying a finished item.

Granted after taxes, yeah, not near half anymore. But the point still holds forcing all those steps will cost you more than RNG, or just buying the item off the MP.

Edited by Luciferia

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Posted (edited)

They do have a point. If you are willing to wait that long, you might have the money to just buy a +15 outright. I would have done it myself but I'm impatient :) The 29 stones it takes to go from 14-15, and the repair costs alone are probably close to half the cost of buying a finished item.

Granted after taxes, yeah, not near half anymore. But the point still holds forcing all those steps will cost you more than RNG, or just buying the item off the MP.

I have 5M -seems to be a case of which ever comes first then.

Edited by Lasarith

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Posted

 

 

I'm very much aware it's RNG but that's why I think the system is bad, at least after you've reached the 25 stack limit where it no longer increases your odds of succeeding. RNG should only be used for drops, since then it will never punish you, it just wont reward you. Here we have a mechanic that takes huge chunks of your money unless you're lucky, which is frustrating. It's not even a real gold sink, and I see no reason to keep it like this.

the RNG option is there if you are willing to take a risk, and risk getting very bad attempts, if you dont want to take a risk, use the force enchanting, and each time you do fail RNG your chance does increase but it will never be 100% (if it would there would be no point in the forcing option), so actually the system we have is a LOT less random that just about any other enchanting system in any other game I know of

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Posted

Can someone explain to me how this is even possible? According to some quick calculations the average number of failstacks to get from +13 to +14 should be 9. The odds of getting 45 failstacks must be less than 1%. This is making me increadibly frustrated since I've lost so many millions by just being unlucky, and I'm also way behind my friends gear-wise because of this stupid enchant. I can not see the reasoning behind capping the percentage increase at 25 stacks, this makes no sense whatsoever. 

These kind of mechanics work in Asia but not in the western world where systems lacking "fairness" frustrates people to no end. Please make the "force enchant" option viable by reducing the number of stones needed until there's a 50% chance to lose/gain stones by using it, or just the remove the 25 fail stack limit.

fails.png

You have a 1 in 20 chance of upgrading that weapon on every blackstone spent past 20. 

You should save that 45 stack for a DUO Ogre ring and start building it again. It'd be a shame to see it wasted on that dagger.

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Posted (edited)

You have a 1 in 20 chance of upgrading that weapon on every blackstone spent past 20. 

You should save that 45 stack for a DUO Ogre ring and start building it again. It'd be a shame to see it wasted on that dagger.

According to this table it's almost 1 out of 5 for each black stone after 25 fail stacks. 

This is for the Korean version but at least it's something to go by.

bdo_fail_stacks.png.d2280d49a9556270326fcd3566355f27.png

So failing 20 more times (which I did) is VERY unlikely. Here's a calculation I made:

100-17,5=82,5

(82,5/100)^20 = 0,021

So there's a chance of about 2% to fail that many AFTER you've already failed 25 times. I can't calculate that since it's exponential, but i'd guess it brings the chance down to below 1%.

 

But yes, like many of you have suggested I will keep the stack on this character and use it for a valuable ring/accessory in the future. If that fails aswell however, i'll quit <.<

Edited by Summerfields

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Posted

According to this table it's almost 1 out of 5 for each black stone after 25 fail stacks. 

So failing 20 more times (which I did) is VERY unlikely. Here's a calculation I made:

100-17,5=82,5

(82,5/100)^20 = 0,021

So there's a chance of about 2% to fail that many AFTER you've already failed 25 times. I can't calculate that since it's exponential, but i'd guess it brings the chance down to below 1%.

 

But yes, like many of you have suggested I will keep the stack on this character and use it for a valuable ring/accessory in the future. If that fails aswell however, i'll quit <.<

Sorry had a typo, I of course meant 1 in 5 chance not 1 in 20.  20 failstacks is the maximum benefit for a level 13 weapon.

There was a guy who posted yesterday who had a *56* failstack from tying to enchant a Level 12 Helm. Want to talk about statistical anomalies....

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Posted

I'm seriously lost for words now. I finally gathered enough stones to try and get this stupid longsword to +14 again. Guess what? Another 45 fails. I now got a 45 fail stack on TWO characters. Can I get some kind of award for being the unluckinest person in BDO?

I'm actually considering quitting now because I've lost an increadible amount of gold (time) on this stupid RNG system. Of course I should have forced enchant but why would I when its a loss of money 90% of the time? 

ssssssssssss.png

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