• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

Guild Wars need to cost more


54 posts in this topic

Posted

Before you jump down my throat with all the "don't mess with my pvp" stuff listen up. 

At the moment it costs pathetically low amounts of silver to declare war, and on top of that there's no further cost to the war. What this means is that a big guild can easily declare against a small guild for the simplest reasons, like gathering fox fur next to one of their officers that happens to be gathering fox fur as well.

The cost of war declaration needs to be a lot higher, and scale off of the size of your guild.

IE a small guild vs small guild should cost like 100k to initiate.

Where as a large guild vs a small guild should cost like 20 million to initiate

Large vs Large 5 million.

Just random numbers of course but there needs to be a cost. There also needs to be further mechanics to prevent the present ability to abuse the system. Guild morale, Guild Karma, and the likes need to be things. 

 

At the moment it is too easy for large guilds to abuse the system and squash smaller guilds over petty things. There needs to be more cost to the declaration of war, to make it more strategic, and mean more to the guild declaring. Otherwise you end up in a situation like on Orwen where the big guilds that span across multiple guilds simply declare against the little guys because they are bored.

I think it's a good idea! Encourages alliances rather than wars...Now we only need a Vassal system added....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It almost physically hurts. People just dont wanna see that guild wars just prevent PKing...

But ok, nerf GvG and then cry about being killed by flagged players from a guild that previously would have declared a war.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Man, people who make the PvP/PvE distinction are the biggest cancer on MMOs. Who the hell PvPs in MMOs and DOESN'T also do PvE? It's a distinction made even more useless in this game, seeing as that you can't be good at PvP in this game without also participating in the PvE aspect of the game. The game is NOT a "PvP" game, like people say it is, there's just loads of stuff to do in this game that is not PvP. The game, the way it is/was implemented, is more so geared towards people who enjoy PvE and meaningful, objective based PvP.

And on the issue of PvP, you people can't take the high ground and claim that "That's just the way the game is" when it was changed from its original form. PvP at 45? Why the hell? The entire reason there was even a quest to get to 50 was so that you can choose not to participate in PvP, there by making it so anyone who gets past 50 has de facto agreed that they consent to PvP, making it so these so called carebears can't complain in the first place. They had mechanics in place for this problem and they were removed in our version, they made changes and of course some people are gonna want it changed back. This game isn't about randomly ganking people, or declaring war on people at random, that was never the intention that the developers had, and you can tell by the mechanics in the game. The devs wanted focus on GvG objective based PvP, that's why they implemented Karma penalties and guild war upkeep to prevent pointless wars.

This is not an argument about PvE players vs PvP players, its about people who want free form PvP vs objective based PvP. And anything that helps the latter would be a wise move, as the mechanics originally implemented support it. Its seems a lot of the PvP community came in expecting something that this game was never designed for. Sure you can do free form PvP, but the game makes it costly as a way of keeping the amount of people doing it in check, and at the same time maintaining that sense of danger that you can in fact be attacked at anytime. So if people want to argue that the reduced cost of guild wars moves the focus from objective based PvP to freeform PvP, its not because they're "carebears" or should switch games, its because they want the game that they saw in Korea that they thought they were getting here.

I'll also point out the no where in under the "Game" section of the website, does it advertise the game as a PvP game, instead, it advertises it's self as a "Fantasy Life" game.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Man, people who make the PvP/PvE distinction are the biggest cancer on MMOs. Who the hell PvPs in MMOs and DOESN'T also do PvE? It's a distinction made even more useless in this game, seeing as that you can't be good at PvP in this game without also participating in the PvE aspect of the game. The game is NOT a "PvP" game, like people say it is, there's just loads of stuff to do in this game that is not PvP. The game, the way it is/was implemented, is more so geared towards people who enjoy PvE and meaningful, objective based PvP.

And on the issue of PvP, you people can't take the high ground and claim that "That's just the way the game is" when it was changed from its original form. PvP at 45? Why the hell? The entire reason there was even a quest to get to 50 was so that you can choose not to participate in PvP, there by making it so anyone who gets past 50 has de facto agreed that they consent to PvP, making it so these so called carebears can't complain in the first place. They had mechanics in place for this problem and they were removed in our version, they made changes and of course some people are gonna want it changed back. This game isn't about randomly ganking people, or declaring war on people at random, that was never the intention that the developers had, and you can tell by the mechanics in the game. The devs wanted focus on GvG objective based PvP, that's why they implemented Karma penalties and guild war upkeep to prevent pointless wars.

This is not an argument about PvE players vs PvP players, its about people who want free form PvP vs objective based PvP. And anything that helps the latter would be a wise move, as the mechanics originally implemented support it. Its seems a lot of the PvP community came in expecting something that this game was never designed for. Sure you can do free form PvP, but the game makes it costly as a way of keeping the amount of people doing it in check, and at the same time maintaining that sense of danger that you can in fact be attacked at anytime. So if people want to argue that the reduced cost of guild wars moves the focus from objective based PvP to freeform PvP, its not because they're "carebears" or should switch games, its because they want the game that they saw in Korea that they thought they were getting here.

I'll also point out the no where in under the "Game" section of the website, does it advertise the game as a PvP game, instead, it advertises it's self as a "Fantasy Life" game.

End game PvP. Its a PVP game. Everything you do out of town is a PVP area. GG 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

End game PvP. Its a PVP game. Everything you do out of town is a PVP area. GG 

End game? What end game?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It almost physically hurts. People just dont wanna see that guild wars just prevent PKing...

But ok, nerf GvG and then cry about being killed by flagged players from a guild that previously would have declared a war.

There's consequence to the flagged individual attacking though. There is none for a big guild to squash a small guild. I am not asking for anything drastic, just a cost to the war. 100k is barely even scratching 1/10th of a single mission reward and that's a medium reward!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

why cant pvp be like the way it is on the KR servers? You gotta pay no?

 

it dosent stop pvp but it dosent burden people who who dont want to pvp. War Should have a cost. You can still hunt members down.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

There's a lot of mind boggling changes made to our game. @Zakeamass brings up quite a few of them. My argument and the point of the thread is that with out the cost of war, you set it up to be abused, which is exactly what is happening now. If your idea of pvp is 100 dude bashing the heads in of say 5 - then well i have lost faith in this generation of gamers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

There's a lot of mind boggling changes made to our game. @Zakeamass brings up quite a few of them. My argument and the point of the thread is that with out the cost of war, you set it up to be abused, which is exactly what is happening now. If your idea of pvp is 100 dude bashing the heads in of say 5 - then well i have lost faith in this generation of gamers.

Youre right, they should have made everyone be perma flagged. The amount of strawmen you pull out of your ass is off the goddamn charts. Dont worry, though. As soon as Valencia got released I'll harass people like you 24/7, Guild War or no Guild War.

As long as youre unable to provide solid evidence that the system is being 'abused' I'd advice you to refrain from further commenting on the matter. And no, a 100 player guild declaring on a 20 player guild is not an abuse of mechanics. A group of 5 people is enough to contest a farm spot. If they bring half their guild its 10v5. Now why should the members of the big guild be punished for being in a big guild? Because they can theoretically bring in more people? Well, if the small guild wants to avoid conflict with bigger guilds then it should pay attention to the groups its attacking. Simple as that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I've heard of a game that may suit you, it's called Hello Kitty Online.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

How's that cleverness working out for you?

It's not the point, the point is that they changed the way wars between guilds work in our version of the game, and it makes it so that there's no cost to war. There needs to be a cost so that large guilds don't abuse the system like they are doing now.

They made it that way so it's easier for all guilds to make PvP happen as it's much more popular/desired in the west than in Asia. As I said: wanting to cripple PvP, which is what a huge part of the population play the game for, because you got killed a few times is selfish and dumb.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

There's consequence to the flagged individual attacking though. There is none for a big guild to squash a small guild. I am not asking for anything drastic, just a cost to the war. 100k is barely even scratching 1/10th of a single mission reward and that's a medium reward!

There should not be any costs in first place. War is war, and should be declared freely based on guild decision. This is OWPvP game and there is nothing else to do, so stop this -----ing cry and back to your -----ing WoW.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

There's consequence to the flagged individual attacking though. There is none for a big guild to squash a small guild. I am not asking for anything drastic, just a cost to the war. 100k is barely even scratching 1/10th of a single mission reward and that's a medium reward!

Thats true. But there are no consequences for dying in a guild war either. And people always talk about big guilds vs small guilds. No guess what. If the big guilds decide to PK a smaller guild, the members can deliver the last blow in turns thus reducing the karma loss of each individual player.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

We're not saying we want erase all pvp, but it seems that it too freaking easy declare and mantain a war against anyone

If you are in a small starter guild and you want equip yourself and improve you can't if a 500 people equiped guild is camping you at any time with no cost for them.

Yeah, life sucks, I can disband my guild and join them... but when we reach a game with only 2 big guilds what we can do? Play WoW? Nah, thanks

Look at our and corean guild war costs.

photo_2016-04-15_16-01-02.jpg

photo_2016-04-15_16-01-09.jpg

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

How is upping the cost of Declaring War, limiting PvP at all? If anything, it would encourage people to put more thought into the worth of it all, opposed to going, "Trollololol 125k trollololol"...

Given how most smaller guilds act on our server I have to disagree. It just gives them a reason to go "neener neener you can't touch us." The smaller, less stronger Guilds should not be able to smack talk or harass without repercussions. 

You're in a political game just as much as you are in a PVP game. A million silver declaration with a 300k sub-charge that is occurring every few hours makes war declarations useless when proving a point. If you harass my Guild, and do something that warrants a perma war-declaration until you bend the knee, then the fault is on you for getting your guild in that position to begin with. If you're the smaller fish, you better stay away from the bigger and show the respect where it's due, or there are consequences. 

Talk shit.

 

get hit.

Edited by Vhagar
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I love PvP, but can you please reduce it to non-existent because someone tried to PvP against me and I didn't like it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

... It just gives them a reason to go "neener neener you can't touch us."...

... If you're the smaller fish, you better stay away from the bigger and show the respect where it's due, or there are consequences. 

Augmenting costs don't make guilds untouchable.

And, in the way it's made this, even respecting, begging or kneeling , they can still camp you eternaly without consequences... for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Augmenting costs don't make guilds untouchable.

And, in the way it's made this, even respecting, begging or kneeling , they can still camp you eternaly without consequences... for them.

yes they can, but again, political options are still available 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

There's consequence to the flagged individual attacking though. There is none for a big guild to squash a small guild.... blah blah blah

How exactly do you "squash" a small guild tell me? What is the cost of war imposed on you that squashes you? That you might have to repair your armor for 10-20k? That you might have to switch a channel to skin your foxes elsewhere? The shock...the horror! 

The reason the cost of wars is low and should stay low, is because being warred upon by another guild costs you absolutely nothing. The PK system has high penalties on both sides, both for the PKed and the PKer. The GvG war system has none. You don't lose karma, you don't lose crystals, you don't lose enchantment levels, you don't lose XP, you don't lose items in your inventory.... nothing.

When a guild declares war on you over a spot (gind spot, fish spot, whatever), then in reality you have two very very simple options:
a) Have some fun, no-risk PvP
b) If you don't want to PvP, change channel.

In which of these scenarios did you get "squashed"? The only thing that is at stake is your pride and if you're not a fighter, then you don't give a poop about that either. So what is it?

Not to mention that I'm having trouble believing that the player you talk about rallied a whole large guild to come PvP against you over skinning some foxes. Because only then would the Big vs Small guild argument even be relevant here in your example.

Edited by Maulkin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Did I said I don't want pvp? No

Can anyone tell me the difference costs and mantaintment costs between asian and our servers?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Given how most smaller guilds act on our server I have to disagree. It just gives them a reason to go "neener neener you can't touch us." The smaller, less stronger Guilds should not be able to smack talk or harass without repercussions. 

You're in a political game just as much as you are in a PVP game. A million silver declaration with a 300k sub-charge that is occurring every few hours makes war declarations useless when proving a point. If you harass my Guild, and do something that warrants a perma war-declaration until you bend the knee, then the fault is on you for getting your guild in that position to begin with. If you're the smaller fish, you better stay away from the bigger and show the respect where it's due, or there are consequences. 

Talk shit.

 

get hit.

It would be one thing if we were talking shit, or pking their members, or anything of that nature, but farming leather next to heidel is the reason the war was declared. 

 

Not to mention that I'm having trouble believing that the player you talk about rallied a whole large guild to come PvP against you over skinning some foxes. Because only then would the Big vs Small guild argument even be relevant here in your example.

Yeah cause there's no assholes on the internet right? Makes that scenario completely implausible. As for how it squashes a small guild it's not just about the one area where the foxes are near heidel, a large guild is everywhere, and the war then puts all the members at risk at that point. Change channels? well guess what large guilds like these are in multiple channels as well. 

I am not asking for an end to the guild war system. I don't know why you people think that I am as I have never asked for that.

I just want the war to be meaningful, thought out and planned. "Should we go to war with xyz? No it costs too much. Yes because they have infringed on us, and it is worth the cost." Not lolercoaster 100k silver war.

It needs to mean something, it needs to be more strategic, and it needs some of the systems that were taken out in our version of the game. There's been countless negative changes to our version of the game, and the guild wars system is just one of many of them.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Don't worry, nobody cares about your leather.
If you intrude on our grinding rotation however (which seems unlikely as you don't sound like you're lvl 55+) you will be leaving it one way or another. More often than not by respawn.

If there wasn't GvG you'd be losing exp and gems as well, you will be leaving that spot. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It would be one thing if we were talking shit, or pking their members, or anything of that nature, but farming leather next to heidel is the reason the war was declared. 

Yeah cause there's no assholes on the internet right? Makes that scenario completely implausible. As for how it squashes a small guild it's not just about the one area where the foxes are near heidel, a large guild is everywhere, and the war then puts all the members at risk at that point. Change channels? well guess what large guilds like these are in multiple channels as well. 

I am not asking for an end to the guild war system. I don't know why you people think that I am as I have never asked for that.

I just want the war to be meaningful, thought out and planned. "Should we go to war with xyz? No it costs too much. Yes because they have infringed on us, and it is worth the cost." Not lolercoaster 100k silver war.

It needs to mean something, it needs to be more strategic, and it needs some of the systems that were taken out in our version of the game. There's been countless negative changes to our version of the game, and the guild wars system is just one of many of them.

leather is acresource. Resources help your guild. Strategy dictates if you want to ensure your competitors are on the bottom, you contest trade markets as well. Less silver = less ability to grow = less of a threat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Is it safe to say that the majority of people arguing against reinstating a Guild War Upkeep Cost are members of larger guilds that don't have to worry about being perpetually harassed by griefers who abuse the current lack of costs to circumvent the karma system (carebear pvpers)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Its just a joke that a 80 member guild is able to keep a guildwar for like.....ever..... against a small guild of 30 people, without them even accepting !

yeah 200k per hour.....but thats nothing for a big guild!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites