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Sorc is NOT OP, time to understand


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Posted

sorc with 30 stam and +stam armor  will have iframes to spare in pvp.

 

stam also regens really fast and isn't depedant on skill strikes to replenish it.

Dark Flame is very, very strong.

Not only does it give you and Iframe, it gap closes then places you our of harms way while dealing top 2-3? damage out of any skill from any class.

Too bad they have to be female, else Id keep playing mine.

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Posted

sorc with 30 stam and +stam armor  will have iframes to spare in pvp.

 

stam also regens really fast and isn't depedant on skill strikes to replenish it.

Dark Flame is very, very strong.

Not only does it give you and Iframe, it gap closes then places you our of harms way while dealing top 2-3? damage out of any skill from any class.

Too bad they have to be female, else Id keep playing mine.

Sorc with stam stacking will have iframes to spare in PvP... if the sorc is extremely good, and/or the opponent is terrible at pressure.

Stam regens really fast... but has no outside method to replenish on demand and isn't fast enough to keep up with significant pressure if you misuse it, and will not recover while you are dodging or using other stamina-using abilities.

Dark Flame is very, very strong, and literally the core damage-dealing ability of the class, because everything else is remarkably weak for PvP.

Dark flame doesn't give you an iframe at all (it does have an unreliable front-only block that is extremely vulnerable to grapples) and can be used to close a fairly small gap that in practice won't exist in most cases because the opponent will be at melee and knocked down when it's safe to execute Dark Flame, which you can do at full damage exactly once every six seconds and then at reduced damage until the cooldown ends, though the second and third hits have cooldowns of their own that further reduce damage until they're up.

Just thought I'd add a touch more context, since it was getting a little 'grass is greener' for a second there.

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Posted

Sorc with stam stacking will have iframes to spare in PvP... if the sorc is extremely good, and/or the opponent is terrible at pressure.
Stam regens really fast... but has no outside method to replenish on demand and isn't fast enough to keep up with significant pressure if you misuse it, and will not recover while you are dodging or using other stamina-using abilities.

Dark Flame is very, very strong, and literally the core damage-dealing ability of the class, because everything else is remarkably weak for PvP.

Dark flame doesn't give you an iframe at all (it does have an unreliable front-only block that is extremely vulnerable to grapples) and can be used to close a fairly small gap that in practice won't exist in most cases because the opponent will be at melee and knocked down when it's safe to execute Dark Flame, which you can do at full damage exactly once every six seconds and then at reduced damage until the cooldown ends, though the second and third hits have cooldowns of their own that further reduce damage until they're up.

Just thought I'd add a touch more context, since it was getting a little 'grass is greener' for a second there.

that frontal block is strong in pvp not only for the damage negation but because it does a lot of damage.

Sorc 100% black Spi power is crazy too for strong ranged dps in mass pvp

The Sorc is like the hybid ranger- they can destroy up close where the ranger does so at range, has a great counter and stagger skill to keep other melees ccd or negate their grabs.

If you were to take competant players who know how to play a ranger sorc wiz warrior valk tamer etc equally well, you would be hard pressed not to say the player using the sorc doesn't come out on top.

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Posted

that frontal block is strong in pvp not only for the damage negation but because it does a lot of damage.

Sorc 100% black Spi power is crazy too for strong ranged dps in mass pvp

The Sorc is like the hybid ranger- they can destroy up close where the ranger does so at range, has a great counter and stagger skill to keep other melees ccd or negate their grabs.

If you were to take competant players who know how to play a ranger sorc wiz warrior valk tamer etc equally well, you would be hard pressed not to say the player using the sorc doesn't come out on top.

lol, the black spirit rage power? So far it's seemed pretty useless, but sure, let's assume that making yourself a big, immobile target while doing easily avoided or potted damage is a good thing. So what? You can only pull it off relatively rarely, and in the meantime classes like ranger and wizard are AoEing the hell out of everything in sight.

The ranger's hardest hits are at relatively close range, by the way. So a Sorc is more like a ranger with different resource management, more iframes and CC, but limited to mostly melee engagement with single or very tightly clustered targets.


And this may come as a surprise to you, but people HAVE taken competent players who know how to play a ranger, sorc, wizard, warrior, Valkyrie, tamer, etc equally well. And unfortunately for your argument, the sorc almost never comes out on top. Dig up the info from the KR version tournaments if you're curious; sorc is strong 1v1 there's no doubt about that but not overwhelmingly so and certainly not exclusively so.

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Posted (edited)

@lolfail   

 How can i take a sorc whiteknight seriously?  I dont care about sorc damage , gap closer and such. Nerf the god damn spammable Iframe. How hard is it to understand that an IFRAME shouldnt be spammable in any PVP game. Its a mechanic that take no skill, completely destroy the purpose of Iframing something and even the most brain dead player can survive your best combo.

 

Please stop defending dumb mechanics like this... As a pvp player you really dont find any problem in a spammable IFRAME ? ffs ...

 

 

EDIT:  please stop comparing fcking KR and NA. In KR everyclass can one shot someone in 1 stun. In 1v1 the player that get the first stun wins no matter what class you play.

In NA we are not there yet. Most people gear suck so you actually get pretty decent and long 1v1 (with potions). So anything you fcking see in KR doesnt apply in NA until we hit the same patch and same gear lvl as them stop with that none sense.

Edited by Rebornz

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Posted

@lolfail   

 How can i take a sorc whiteknight seriously?  I dont care about sorc damage , gap closer and such. Nerf the god damn spammable Iframe. How hard is it to understand that an IFRAME shouldnt be spammable in any PVP game. Its a mechanic that take no skill, completely destroy the purpose of Iframing something and even the most brain dead player can survive your best combo.

 

Please stop defending dumb mechanics like this... As a pvp player you really dont find any problem in a spammable IFRAME ? ffs ...

 

 

EDIT:  please stop comparing fcking KR and NA. In KR everyclass can one shot someone in 1 stun. In 1v1 the player that get the first stun wins no matter what class you play.

In NA we are not there yet. Most people gear suck so you actually get pretty decent and long 1v1 (with potions). So anything you fcking see in KR doesnt apply in NA until we hit the same patch and same gear lvl as them stop with that none sense.

TIL: knowing game mechanics and being able to play the game = whiteknighting.

"I don't care about warrior damage, gap closer and such. Nerf the god damn spammable block. How hard is it to understand that a BLOCK shouldn't be spammable in any PvP game. It's a mechanic that take no skill, completely destroy the purpose of blocking something and even the most brain dead player can survive your best combo. Please stop defending dumb mechanics like this... As a pvp player you really don't find any problem in a spammable BLOCK? ffs..."

Look, I get it, you new folks who haven't played much have a hard time 1) wrapping your heads around a dodge mechanic and 2) dealing with the current technical issue that is desync, which -----s everyone over pretty bad from time to time. That's understandable, but also not that hard to overcome with practice.

So it would be cool if you could, you know, actually go out there and practice instead of demanding that the developers bring the game down to your skill level.

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Posted (edited)

TIL: knowing game mechanics and being able to play the game = whiteknighting.
"I don't care about warrior damage, gap closer and such. Nerf the god damn spammable block. How hard is it to understand that a BLOCK shouldn't be spammable in any PvP game. It's a mechanic that take no skill, completely destroy the purpose of blocking something and even the most brain dead player can survive your best combo. Please stop defending dumb mechanics like this... As a pvp player you really don't find any problem in a spammable BLOCK? ffs..."

Look, I get it, you new folks who haven't played much have a hard time 1) wrapping your heads around a dodge mechanic and 2) dealing with the current technical issue that is desync, which -----s everyone over pretty bad from time to time. That's understandable, but also not that hard to overcome with practice.

So it would be cool if you could, you know, actually go out there and practice instead of demanding that the developers bring the game down to your skill level.

I guess your head is too far up your ass to understand my POV. Do you know what an iframe is? Quick explanation for you young one. Iframe = Dodging skill that will give you a really short invulnerability agaisnt any spell/combo/attack in the game.

 

In any pvp game with Iframes. They should be use at the perfect time to make your opponent waste big cooldown or cc allowing you to hit them freely without putting yourself in danger of a one shot combo.

Take the wizard for exemple , 8sec cooldown TP iframe.A Bad wizard will use their tp everytime the cd is up and they will be punished for not saving it for big combos.

A Good wizard will use their iframes when their opponent use big cooldowns or cc (Making the opponent waste their cd's / cc). Yet again 8sec cooldown.

 

Now you have sorc,with a spammable iframe so technically they can spam an *invulnerability* agaisnt any spell/combo/attack in the game.

I repeat sorc as a spammable invulnerability.

 

Pls dont tell me to go practice anything you should be the one praticing a class that takes actual skill. Not a 1 button invu smh...

Edited by Rebornz

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Posted

I guess your head is too far up your ass to understand my POV. Do you know what an iframe is? Quick explanation for you young one. Iframe = Dodging skill that will give you a really short invulnerability agaisnt any spell/combo/attack in the game.

 

In any pvp game with Iframes. They should be use at the perfect time to make your opponent waste big cooldown or cc allowing you to hit them freely without putting yourself in danger of a one shot combo.

Take the wizard for exemple , 8sec cooldown TP iframe.A Bad wizard will use their tp everytime the cd is up and they will be punished for not saving it for big combos.

A Good wizard will use their iframes when their opponent use big cooldowns or cc (Making the opponent waste their cd's / cc). Yet again 8sec cooldown.

 

Now you have sorc,with a spammable iframe so technically they can spam an *invulnerability* agaisnt any spell/combo/attack in the game.

I repeat sorc as a spammable invulnerability.

 

Pls dont tell me to go practice anything you should be the one praticing a class that takes actual skill. Not a 1 button invu smh...

Actually, I fully understand your point of view, it's just wrong.

I mean, I could talk about how warriors and Valkyries have a block that is functionally the same as an iframe in PvP - the resource management is different and it's vulnerable to grabs, but it blocks other CC and has vastly more available uptime than Night Crow. I could mention that maybe you shouldn't be trying so desperately to make this game fit what you think it should be and instead realize that due to the abundance of CC and low TTK at higher levels you typically can't afford to have your primary defensive ability on a big CD. I could add that the wizard you mentioned before is intentionally tuned to be bad at 1v1 in exchange for being a mass PvP powerhouse (hence the lesser survivability options) and that other classes with iframes on a cooldown (hi blader/plum) have a much more reliable and useful block to make up the deficit, and have even more iframes on the way because that turned out to not be enough. I could point out that you are blatantly refusing to acknowledge reality and that that refusal appears to be rooted in a lack of understanding of the class you're facing and resentment at having difficulty fighting it.

But it doesn't seem like that would do much good, so I'll just reiterate that you're wrong and I do hope to meet you in game since you'd be an easy target for any of my characters.

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Posted

Pls dont tell me to go practice anything you should be the one praticing a class that takes actual skill. Not a 1 button invu smh...

You absolutely need to practice.  I practice dodging in the arena for around 30 minutes every single day on my witch.  I fought a higher level better geared warrior for the first time a week or so ago in the arena, who warned me beforehand that he had a lot of experience with fighting witches.  After about 10 minutes of fighting, he finally killed me and said, "good lord you're mobile."

I can also dodge the shit out of sorcs, and hell, I even win nearly half of the fights against my boyfriend's.  

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Posted

"Sorc is NOT OP, time to understand"

"Listen and Believe"

"Submit and Obey" 

 

Jesus christ, I got some really Orwellian vibes from your post... You are telling me, to blindly believe, or even consider what you just said, without providing a real analogy... Because I got one. Check the red battlefield scoreboard by the end, and ask around. you will realize that sorcerers and rangers (but we all know about this last one) tend to lead the board. 

 

Coincidence?

 

large-14559.0_3.thumb.jpg.47465b693ff344

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Posted (edited)

"Sorc is NOT OP, time to understand"

"Listen and Believe"

"Submit and Obey" 

 

Jesus christ, I got some really Orwellian vibes from your post... You are telling me, to blindly believe, or even consider what you just said, without providing a real analogy... Because I got one. Check the red battlefield scoreboard by the end, and ask around. you will realize that sorcerers and rangers (but we all know about this last one) tend to lead the board. 

 

Coincidence?

 

large-14559.0_3.thumb.jpg.47465b693ff344

That's because Red Battlefield is relatively small-scale (favorable territory for sorc) and based around kills in an environment where people have 1) boosted survivability and 2) no meaningful gear equalization. Sorc has never been a bad class, and surprise surprise if you stick a small-scale-focused opportunistic burst damage dealer into a kill-scored deathmatch you're going to see it do pretty decently provided it has the gear and skill to back it up.

I honestly don't remember the OP's exact words at this point, but I don't recall him ever saying sorc is bad. It would just be nice if we could quell a bit of the reflex a minority of players have of running to the forums crying OP and demanding nerfs the moment they meet the game's current rough equivalent to a rogue.

Edited by lolfail
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Posted (edited)

Actually, I fully understand your point of view, it's just wrong.

I mean, I could talk about how warriors and Valkyries have a block that is functionally the same as an iframe in PvP - the resource management is different and it's vulnerable to grabs, but it blocks other CC and has vastly more available uptime than Night Crow. I could mention that maybe you shouldn't be trying so desperately to make this game fit what you think it should be and instead realize that due to the abundance of CC and low TTK at higher levels you typically can't afford to have your primary defensive ability on a big CD. I could add that the wizard you mentioned before is intentionally tuned to be bad at 1v1 in exchange for being a mass PvP powerhouse (hence the lesser survivability options) and that other classes with iframes on a cooldown (hi blader/plum) have a much more reliable and useful block to make up the deficit, and have even more iframes on the way because that turned out to not be enough. I could point out that you are blatantly refusing to acknowledge reality and that that refusal appears to be rooted in a lack of understanding of the class you're facing and resentment at having difficulty fighting it.

But it doesn't seem like that would do much good, so I'll just reiterate that you're wrong and I do hope to meet you in game since you'd be an easy target for any of my characters.

Please Please Please... Do not compare warrior block to Sorc Iframe cmon now.

 

The warrior can barely move while blocking.. in the other hand the sorc can catch you *while iframing* in less then an second or simply run away.

I love how *If you complain about my class mechanics you must suck at the game and get beat by my class all day long get gud kid* I've never said anywhere that i had trouble fighting sorc or any other classes. But hey its the prime argument for anyone refusing to see how braindead your class mechanics are. I spend most of my time in the arena and i win prob 80% of my 1v1. Winning or losing is not the problem.. the class as a broken mechanics that should be fix. I if i ever pk a sorc they cant kill me because i know how to counter them perfectly since i train vs my friend sorc all day long. The problem is if they dont want to die they wont no matter what.

 

 

You absolutely need to practice.  I practice dodging in the arena for around 30 minutes every single day on my witch.  I fought a higher level better geared warrior for the first time a week or so ago in the arena, who warned me beforehand that he had a lot of experience with fighting witches.  After about 10 minutes of fighting, he finally killed me and said, "good lord you're mobile."

I can also dodge the shit out of sorcs, and hell, I even win nearly half of the fights against my boyfriend's.  

Same for you, its not because im complaining about something that i need practice. I dont lose agaisnt sorc or most classes . I've play most mmo that came out the past 10 years and i always get one of the highest rating. Thx for your concern tho.

Edited by Rebornz

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Posted

Watched the video, im not sure how skilled their opponents were, but being able to go 9-0 with the same tactic 9 times in a row tells me their opponents were very bad at adapting. Maybe im missing something but thats what i saw at least 

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Posted

Please Please Please... Do not compare warrior block to Sorc Iframe cmon now.

 

The warrior can barely move while blocking.. in the other hand the sorc can catch you *while iframing* in less then an second or simply run away.

I love how *If you complain about my class mechanics you must suck at the game and get beat by my class all day long get gud kid* I've never said anywhere that i had trouble fighting sorc or any other classes. But hey its the prime argument for anyone refusing to see how braindead your class mechanics are. I spend most of my time in the arena and i win prob 80% of my 1v1. Winning or losing is not the problem.. the class as a broken mechanics that should be fix. I if i ever pk a sorc they cant kill me because i know how to counter them perfectly since i train vs my friend sorc all day long. The problem is if they dont want to die they wont no matter what.

 

 

Same for you, its not because im complaining about something that i need practice. I dont lose agaisnt sorc or most classes . I've play most mmo that came out the past 10 years and i always get one of the highest rating. Thx for your concern tho.

lololol

Every time you post you demonstrate how thoroughly you don't understand sorc mechanics, so you're going to have to forgive everyone if they don't take you at your word on that. And I really love how the argument from you shitposters follows such an amazingly predictable formula! "Sorcs are so broken and OP! Un no I never lose to them! I'm not bad everything else is bad I'm just here making my first few posts on the forums -----ing because I'm so good at the game!"

You might think you're being witty and original, but this horse has been dead for weeks and you aren't going to fool anyone. We see this exact same thing every time a wannabe pro PvPer gets trashed by a sorc for the first time.

I can't even begin to reiterate enough how incredibly stupid it is to be sitting here in the class forum of a reasonably balanced class saying 'Sorceresses can't kill me I have no trouble fighting them I almost always win so nerf sorc because I don't undersand their dodge mechanic'.

You need more than our concern, bud.

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Posted

Snip snip 

 

If sorc is the benchmark for balance then id argue wiz and sorc are the only balanced classes in the game with the others falling a little behind (not a lot).

Note im not saying sorc is op, but they are strong cant deny that 

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Posted

I suggest you check out the korean weekly 1on1 tournaments. The last three weeks have been won by a ranger. The most recent one:

#1 ranger

#2 tamer

#3 sorc

Ranger is the overall TOP nr 1 in the 1on1 bracker. Sorcs isn#t even represented much in the 3on3 bracket. So yeah, SO VERY OP PIE.

Thats with awakening. If you make a 1v1 tournament in NA/EU i can guarantee you equally geared a ranger wont be that high up in the list.

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Posted

After seeing how sorcs perform in the Red Battlefield, I don't care as much about a nerf as I used to; the majority of them perform as poorly as bladers and plums do. The i-frames are still annoying because it takes 5 people just to kill one sorc since most attacks will miss and you'll eventually run out of energy, but they're kind of trashy otherwise.

Wizards and witches on the other hand perform decently in both 1v1s and medium to large-scale fights because of all the stun abilities they have in addition to their i-frame and self-healing abilities.. Pls nerf.

In all seriousness, (and I know this isn't the place to complain) I'm a little disappointed that ranger doesn't have a way to defend itself. It's an ok class but shotgun isn't what it's cracked up to be - especially now that everyone's geared and are longer get one-shotted by it (which is why the ranger topics have stopped). We have no buffs we can give ourselves or anything.. It's pretty sad.

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Posted (edited)

If you make a 1v1 tournament in NA/EU i can guarantee you equally geared a ranger wont be that high up in the list.

That's because arena combat is yet another different situation. I find a Valk the strongest in the arena simply because their limited mobility isn't a disadvantage there. When i stand in the middle of the arena on a Valk, my opponent is always within reach of my few dashes. As a Ranger in the arena i curse because there is no where to actually run away. You must constantly pass your opponent to gain space. 

The red battlefield has it's own pros and cons for classes just like the arena does. Which is why some classes perform better in one over the other. 

The warrior can barely move while blocking.. in the other hand the sorc can catch you *while iframing* in less then an second or simply run away.

I've never said anywhere that i had trouble fighting sorc or any other classes. 

Block is awesome, period.

If you don't have trouble fighting Sorcerers than i don't think they need a nerf. Or should all the Sorcerer's you kill go to your class forums and claim you should be nerfed because they can't beat your class.

Side note: I wonder how bad players come to the conclusion of what is OP? There is no way for them to know if they lose because of their own skill, opponent skill, gear gap, or class imbalance.

Edited by Ginrei
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Posted (edited)

If sorc is the benchmark for balance then id argue wiz and sorc are the only balanced classes in the game with the others falling a little behind (not a lot).

Note im not saying sorc is op, but they are strong cant deny that 

You'll find that with more content and awakenings everyone falls in line, more or less; some are arguably more consistently useful than others but everyone gets their niches. No one is arguing that a well played sorc is weak, just that the crying for nerfs by bad players who scream OP is unwarranted.

Edited by lolfail

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Posted (edited)

See , no point in having an argumentation  with a sorc. You will say everything and anything to not admit that your class as a broken mechanic. Like i said its not about winning or losing they just dont die. I could practice 24 hours a day if i wanted to, sroc can run away at will. They engage you , you drop them low, they spam iframe , they comeback full hp to annoy you again, they droop low again , they iframe out of the combat again , they comeback and repeat. A broken mechanic doesnt mean its impossible to counter smh... Its simply a stupid mechanic that take no skill or reflexion to use and give a big advantage to the player. Lets say sorc had to do a certain combo and then they will gain for 10 sec an iframe when they dodge i wouldnt be mad at all right. The fact that any sorc can jump on you knock you down , pray that they 1 shot you if they dont they spam iframe iframe iframe away. But you refuse to see that and im just another bad player getting demolish by your precious and skilled class. Wake up man.

 

Edit : Why the ----- do you think there is so many Sorc pvp video out there or tons of Hey guys look at my new video 1v5 with my sorc enjoy!!!

 

No class in any game should be able to 1v5 wake the ----- up.

Edited by Rebornz

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Posted

I could practice 24 hours a day if i wanted to, sroc can run away at will. They engage you , you drop them low, they spam iframe , they comeback full hp to annoy you again, they droop low again , they iframe out of the combat again , they comeback and repeat. 

 

No class in any game should be able to 1v5 wake the ----- up.

So you're asking for Sorcerers to be unable to dodge your attacks so you can kill them. If they can disengage and comeback how is that a problem? You should have full health too if they can. If you beat them once, you can beat them again. Is this your first time PvPing? If you can't chase someone down, CC them, or enfeeble the class long enough to kill it, that's on you.

Maybe you shouldn't make so many assumptions. Who's to say whether 1v5 is justified or not? Maybe they are all shit players, low level, or badly geared.

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Posted

Hey guys, Let's all continue to pretend a class that can jump into a group of people, kill half of them and escape unharmed is completely fine.

I don't like using this as an example, since he by all means is no hardcore player or anything. But since it's easily available and shows pvp at the average skill level I'd say it's adequate representation.

 

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Posted (edited)

 

The Analogy

Now boys and girls, have you ever played COD:MW ? Yes probably, you must remember the grenade launcher and the infamous Martydom perk.

Those two lame perks where extremly lethal in casual match-ups. Everyone would cry tears on forums about how "OP" that was. Until people got more skilled and slowly realized that those mechancis could be avoided and were a smart way from IW to allow casu-noobs to score some kills and not get crushed by MLGs.

Regarding this, did you see pros using GL and martydom in competition ? Answer is NO. Why not? Because elite players would use less known weapons which nobody cared about. They'd see the true value of others perks.

 

 

on cod4 pc they use promod

on consoles grenade launchers are banned

source on grenade launchers: http://www.majorleaguegaming.com/news/mlg-anaheim-call-of-duty-4-rules-and-settings

way to undermind your argument op

Edited by fewifewnewf

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So it would be cool if you could, you know, actually go out there and practice instead of demanding that the developers bring the game down to your skill level.

I've been trying to advocate this since 'nerf sorc' threads began appearing to the point of offering to help people learn. In the end it always came back to 'Nah... I'd rather have easy wins than learn' because every time my offer was declined. It's not that hard to see what the whiners really want.

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nerf zerk, blader, plum, warrior and buff sorc pls!

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