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[POLL] Compromise: Fixing the PVP unlock

Fixing the PVP unlock   377 votes

  1. 1. What kind of player are you and can you accept these compromises?

    • I am a PVE-only player and I can accept compromise 1.
      38
    • I am a PVE-only player and I can accept compromise 2.
      13
    • I am a PVE-only player and I can accept both of these compromises.
      37
    • I am a PVE-only player and I cannot accept either of these compromises (please explain below)
      25
    • I am a PVP or PVX player and I can accept compromise 1.
      87
    • I am a PVP or PVX player and I can accept compromise 2.
      33
    • I am a PVP or PVX player and I can accept both compromises.
      69
    • I am a PVP or PVX player and I cannot accept either of these compromises (please explain below)
      75

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

182 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

This is not a suggestion to implement a PVE only channel or server, nor is it a suggestion to place an EXP lock at level 49.99.  If you shitpost without reading, I will just quote the OP to you rather than engage in discussion.

 

Edit: The poll is updated with better options.

 

Alright, so here's a little background for those who haven't followed the issue:

In KR BDO, PVP unlocks at level 50 after completing a quest that locks your EXP at 49.99.  Completing this quest would unlock PVP for all characters on your account, regardless of level.

http://black-desert.com/pvp/

In EU/NA BDO, the PVP unlock level was changed to 45, and made per-character rather than account-wide.  

The quest which originally served as a opt-in for PVP was not adjusted, and now locks our EXP 5 levels after the unlock.  This means players who are unaware of how the unlock works may unwittingly opt-in to PVP, and those who do not want to participate in PVP are forced to repeatedly kill their characters to keep them from unlocking.

 

To me, this just seems like lazy not very careful work on PA's end.  They could have adjusted the quest to lock EXP before the unlock level, or removed the quest entirely and added some kind of tooltip to inform players that they will unlock PVP if they pass 45.  Instead, we have an incredibly ambiguous system with useless remnants of the old one.

 

There has been a lot of tension between PVE-only players and PVPers over this issue lately, so I'm offering two compromises based on concerns I've read from both sides over the last couple weeks:

1. Use the quest to unlock PVP: PVP is unlocked after completing the quest at 45, and is only unlocked for that character

This should be easy to implement, since the unlock is already level-based and per-character.  All PA would need to do is adjust the quest to pop and lock EXP at 44.99.  This allows people to keep their PVE-only alts below the unlock without suiciding.


2. Use level to unlock PVP: PVP is unlocked after reaching level 50, and is only unlocked for that character. A message is displayed upon reaching 49 that warns players they are about to unlock PVP.  

This might be more work to implement (there is no similar warning already).  The trade-off with this compromise is that you can level higher with a PVE-only character, but you will have to suicide it to prevent unlocking PVP.  With either of these suggestions, players will be prevented from unwittingly opting-in to PVP, and people will not be able to efficiently farm in-demand mobs on their PVE-only characters (45 is too low level and they will have to suicide to avoid passing 50).

 

If you cannot accept either of these compromises, please thoughtfully (and respectfully) explain why.  One or two sentence posts will likely be ignored.

 

Let's keep the discussion civil, please.

Edited by Anemone
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Posted

why did they change it to 45 in the first place? is NA/EU just servers to test ideas out?

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Posted (edited)

EDIT : without quest & lvl lock thoses options arent good. tho.

You will, if you want to avoid pvp, still need to constantly kill yourself to not pass the lvl cap.

 

So that's a no.

 

The point of pvp 50 + quest lvl lock is beeing able to keep play without earning xp, so not go to pvp.

Because, outside the player willing to not be ganked so live a peacefull pve life, it doesnt change all the issues because pvp ( gear2win, no balance.. etc )

Edited by woots

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Posted (edited)

why did they change it to 45 in the first place? is NA/EU just servers to test ideas out?

PVP players in our community strongly pushed for it to be moved to 45 for various reasons.  Some people wanted to be able to PVP earlier, so they can PK people stealing their mobs.  Likewise, other people didn't want PVE-only players to be able to gear up and take over high level grinding spots without the risk of being killed.

well, the second suggestion is moving the lvl unlock at lvl 50 + having the lvl lock because of the quest.

That's why many ppl want, and i'am down for that.

At least i would ( even since i'am enjoying the pve content in his globality, i dont rush lvl up / gear up ) be able to peacefully gear up to enter pvp in a balanced state ( so +15 & so )

Actually, the second option removes the quest EXP lock, but puts the unlock level back at 50 and adds a warning at 49.  The idea behind this is that PVE-only players can level higher (and are warned before unlocking), but they will have to suicide to prevent unlocking in exchange for access to more content.  Ideally I'd like to see the unlock at 50 with the EXP lock from the quest, but I know people have problems with this so I'm trying to come up with compromises.

Edited by Anemone

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Posted

It wouldn't affect my playstyle whatever happens (I'd adapt), but if the quest was introduced at whatever level for those that want it, then, yeah, go for it, I say. Seems to me folk would be appeased by this.

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Posted (edited)

PVP players in our community strongly pushed for it to be moved to 45 for various reasons.  Some people wanted to be able to PVP earlier, so they can PK people stealing their mobs. 

It still dont change that some want, other doesnt, you have a poll where its close to 50/50 for pvp vs pve, and various poster pointed out that no side ( pve or pvp ) should take other the other, and suppress somes choice ( i very insist on the word CHOICE )

And actualy, "pver" doesnt have the choice they should have had.

 

Somes spoke about the grind spot pvp off and so, but so far, whatever if you kill other and forbid them to access thoses said grind spot  or if a "pvp off" start "ks" its the same kind of gried so far.

 

Actually, the second option removes the quest EXP lock,

oh didnt understood that, but in that case, yeah, that's no.

i doesnt change the issue. "pver" will still have to keep kill themself to not lvl up.

 

 

Edited by woots

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Posted

That is the one single thing I ever asked for and thank you for this thread.

I would be fine with either option, at this point all I want to see is for Daum to show respect towards people paying their bills in form of communication, transparency, information and explanation. So far we have only been very pointedly ignored.

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Posted (edited)

It still dont change that some want, other doesnt, you have a poll where its close to 50/50 for pvp vs pve, and various poster pointed out that no side ( pve or pvp ) should take other the other, and suppress somes choice ( i very insist on the word CHOICE )

And actualy, "pver" doesnt have the choice they should have had.

 

Somes spoke about the grind spot pvp off and so, but so far, whatever if you kill other and forbid them to access thoses said grind spot  or if a "pvp off" start "ks" its the same kind of gried so far.

I wasn't really trying to take a side on whether I think unlock should have been changed, just repeating reasons people gave for wanting it at 45.

Personally I prefer having an EXP lock, but this thread is more about fixing the broken unlock system (the quest that locks you 5 levels after and serves no purpose, no warning for level 44 players about to unlock, etc).  The compromises I suggested aren't exactly what I would want, but are improvements on the current system I think both sides could live with.  I updated the poll to give better options.

That is the one single thing I ever asked for and thank you for this thread.

I would be fine with either option, at this point all I want to see is for Daum to show respect towards people paying their bills in form of communication, transparency, information and explanation. So far we have only been very pointedly ignored.

After reading a lot of posts on this issue, I think most people would be fine with either suggestion as well.

It'd be great to hear some feedback from staff though.. @CM_Jouska?

Edited by Anemone

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Posted

Think you missed one option I am a PVE PVX player and would or would not accept.

I enjoy PvP in my own time when I chose and that is why I prefer the Gateway quest that unlocks PVP when I chose to do so. The great majority of this game is PVE and it has some of the greatest PVE life skills exploration of any game out there and that is what sets it apart even more then the PVP.  I am looking forward to the Node and guild and naval wars,  I just want to enjoy the PVE first before I chose to join a PVP centered guild and dedicate myself to the Node Guild Naval wars.

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Posted

Think you missed one option I am a PVE PVX player and would or would not accept.

I enjoy PvP in my own time when I chose and that is why I prefer the Gateway quest that unlocks PVP when I chose to do so. The great majority of this game is PVE and it has some of the greatest PVE life skills exploration of any game out there and that is what sets it apart even more then the PVP.  I am looking forward to the Node and guild and naval wars,  I just want to enjoy the PVE first before I chose to join a PVP centered guild and dedicate myself to the Node Guild Naval wars.

Yeah, I would like to have more options on the poll but I can add up to 10, so I chose to do PVP vs non-PVP (or PVE-only vs PVP/X). 

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Posted (edited)

2 is the most cost effective, both are reasonable.

Not really sure what the counter-argument to this compromise is; it's effectively putting the state of pvp back towards the way it is intended.

<edit>

I didn't realize in option two you take off the quest lock... that's something I can accept (because I don't care) but I don't really see the point in making that change.

Edited by bakimono

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Posted

2 is the most cost effective, both are reasonable.

Not really sure what the counter-argument to this compromise is; it's effectively putting the state of pvp back towards the way it is intended.

Do you mean cost effective from PA's perspective?  Just curious, since I thought 1 was actually less work to implement.

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Posted

Ok I bite , If I am reading this right You want a quest to unlock PvP so if you don't do the quest you will not be able to be Kill by a player for whatever reason?  Like talking your lvl 40 to the black desert to mine whatever is out there. This way you can continue to mine happy without worry about being pked. In a way you want players to be able to move forward in the game as content comes up without worrying about being killed even in a war against another guild?

I am not buying it.

At some point in the game if you want to continue to new content you will have to face PvP in some shape or form. If you choose to not pvp in some shape or form then the current content is your endgame. As content comes up you will have to be higher in levels which will make lvl 45 come up that much faster.

In the end If you want to continue with content as it opens you will be pvping in some shape or form.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Ok I bite , If I am reading this right You want a quest to unlock PvP so if you don't do the quest you will not be able to be Kill by a player for whatever reason?  Like talking your lvl 40 to the black desert to mine whatever is out there. This way you can continue to mine happy without worry about being pked. In a way you want players to be able to move forward in the game as content comes up without worrying about being killed even in a war against another guild?

I am not buying it.

At some point in the game if you want to continue to new content you will have to face PvP in some shape or form. If you choose to not pvp in some shape or form then the current content is your endgame. As content comes up you will have to be higher in levels which will make lvl 45 come up that much faster.

In the end If you want to continue with content as it opens you will be pvping in some shape or form.

Let people play how they want.  There are some consequences for choosing PVE-only over PVP.

 

2. Use level to unlock PVP: PVP is unlocked after reaching level 50, and is only unlocked for that character. A message is displayed upon reaching 49 that warns players they are about to unlock PVP.  

This might be more work to implement (there is no similar warning already).  The trade-off with this compromise is that you can level higher with a PVE-only character, but you will have to suicide it to prevent unlocking PVP.  With either of these suggestions, players will be prevented from unwittingly opting-in to PVP, and people will not be able to efficiently farm in-demand mobs on their PVE-only characters (45 is too low level and they will have to suicide to avoid passing 50).

 

 

Edited by Anemone

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Posted

Do you mean cost effective from PA's perspective?  Just curious, since I thought 1 was actually less work to implement.

PA's perspective, even after my edit.

1 involves re-scaling an entire quest 2 just involves removing a quest, adding a prompt and setting the pvp level back to 50.

But, as I said in my edit, I don't particularly see the point in option 2 now that I understand you're talking about stripping that level stop. I mean it being there right now is pretty much completely useless but moving the bar to 50 really doesn't change a whole lot for the current gripe; PvE minded players still have to chain suicide to stay under pvp level.

I'd say option 3, just put pvp level back to 50, is the best bet.

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Posted (edited)

I voted the last one

because the System like it is right now is perfect

 

PvE Players should just keep on and move to a PvE Friendly Game, BDO is not for you Guys....

btw there is an EXp Lock at 49.999

Just dont kill Belmorn and you will stay always 49 :)

If you want to PvE dont Level above 44 and all is okay but maybe Daum should do this to 50 for PvE Players and all above 50 its Open World PvP just to satisfy the Crybaby PvE Faction wich want to destroy every PvP Main themed MMORPG they see....

 

Good Luck and bye :)

Edited by Irrstern

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Posted

I have said this quite a few times and I shall say it again.....I wish they would just revert it to the way it is in the Korean version. For me that is the best of both worlds as it allows for people who only like PVE to stay at lvl 49 and still participate in a good bit of the PVE content. 

It also allows for those who like to PvP at lower levels to do the PvP account unlock quest and then be able to roll an alt and have PvP from lower levels to high levels. Instead we have this frankenstein version that doesn't seem to appease either crowd, as there are those who want to PvP earlier and those who do not want to PvP at all. 

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Posted

PA's perspective, even after my edit.
1 involves re-scaling an entire quest 2 just involves removing a quest, adding a prompt and setting the pvp level back to 50.

But, as I said in my edit, I don't particularly see the point in option 2 now that I understand you're talking about stripping that level stop. I mean it being there right now is pretty much completely useless but moving the bar to 50 really doesn't change a whole lot for the current gripe; PvE minded players still have to chain suicide to stay under pvp level.

I'd say option 3, just put pvp level back to 50, is the best bet.

I see, I hadn't noticed your edit sorry.

The only reason I stripped the level stop from option 2 is because there is a somewhat common concern that people will be able to gear up their PVE-only characters at 50 and take over grind spots, leaving PVP players no option to PK and hold their spot down. 

I agree that 'option 3' is best, but some people have problems with it so I attempted to come up with a compromise.

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Posted

Let people play how they want.  There are some consequences for choosing PVE-only over PVP.

 

Well that just saying " I want to pvp when I want to "  like one of my members would say. I say you can play the way you want. You just not going to far in content is all. Your endgame is here now and if you want to continue pass it you will have to fight for your right to be here in some shape or form.

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Posted

I have said this quite a few times and I shall say it again.....I wish they would just revert it to the way it is in the Korean version. For me that is the best of both worlds as it allows for people who only like PVE to stay at lvl 49 and still participate in a good bit of the PVE content. 

It also allows for those who like to PvP at lower levels to do the PvP account unlock quest and then be able to roll an alt and have PvP from lower levels to high levels. Instead we have this frankenstein version that doesn't seem to appease either crowd, as there are those who want to PvP earlier and those who do not want to PvP at all. 

I agree KR BDOs system is fine, but people on this forum have voiced reasons they don't want it.  The compromises I suggested are trying to appease both sides of the issue, so neither is going to be ideal for everyone.

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Posted

1. Use the quest to unlock PVP: PVP is unlocked after completing the quest at 45, and is only unlocked for that character

This should be easy to implement, since the unlock is already level-based and per-character.  All PA would need to do is adjust the quest to pop and lock EXP at 44.99.  This allows people to keep their PVE-only alts below the unlock without suiciding.

It's always been my opinion that this is a reasonable request and I'm willing to support it. 

My opposition to PvP unlock at 50 has always stemmed from the fact it would, at least for now, create two distinct subgroups; people that can fight each other to contest high-density grind-spots and people that can saunter into a spot with impunity and killsteal - or attempt to killsteal - with zero repercussions. Despite the attempts of some posters to brush this off as if it doesn't matter, so long as these areas are being farmed for high-end items I will vehemently oppose a PvP unlock at 50. I can however support one at 45. PvP is already unlocked at 45 anyway, all this is doing is locking XP behind a quest so you can't accidentally progress if you don't want to. I'm not sure how it can be reasonably opposed.

Good thread, OP.

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Posted

Well that just saying " I want to pvp when I want to "  like one of my members would say. I say you can play the way you want. You just not going to far in content is all. Your endgame is here now and if you want to continue pass it you will have to fight for your right to be here in some shape or form.

Actually its saying "let people play how they want."  If someone wants to play PVE-only, don't force or trick them into PVP.  They won't get to access as much content, but that's their choice and has almost zero impact on PVP players' gameplay.

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Posted

I think exp locking quest at 45(aka, you can't go above 44.99) is still the best compromise. It's what I've been pushing for as the best meet in the middle in pretty much every single one of these threads.

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Posted

I see, I hadn't noticed your edit sorry.

The only reason I stripped the level stop from option 2 is because there is a somewhat common concern that people will be able to gear up their PVE-only characters at 50 and take over grind spots, leaving PVP players no option to PK and hold their spot down. 

I agree that 'option 3' is best, but some people have problems with it so I attempted to come up with a compromise.

More of a short term concern really... I'd say option 3 but wait till the softcap is 55 to do it.

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Posted

Where is the option for neither? Pretty much just click bait tbh. These unofficial rehashed polls are getting old.

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