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There is no RNG in field boss loot

78 posts in this topic

Posted

Its funny seeing people do bheg last night on valencia channels. one person got a liverto bundle on all three channels. another got it twice in a row.

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Posted

No. Your RNG does not "Scale" with damage.The damage is a factor in whether or not you even get considered by the droprate probability.
You have to do enough damage to be able to get a drop.

lol ok, let me guess you are a ranger? This would be my second point about the imbalance when it comes to ranged vs melee at field bosses. DMG > RNG

is there proof of this or it is your opinion. If it is a fact please bring forward some form of evidence. I am not shutting you down but if it is true I want to post this in bold letters to shut down all the teary eyes argument that they are at disadvantage. 

This is about how it goes:

http://imgur.com/s9IvICT

s9IvICT

where is your evidence that its happens to the same group of people every day since launch?You cannot treat your unproven thesis as a fact and expect everyone who has minimum education to make the same stupid misstake.
Do you even understand anything?

Just look at how deep your missunderstanding reaches:

Okay here you say this should not happen from RNG.So lets check this with probability theorie.
If an event X has a chance > 0 to happen, then it also has a chance bigger > 0 to happen 2 times in a row.
So the only way it should not happen would be to set the probability for the event X to 0.
Wich means by your understanding of RNG and probability, the dropchance for any highclass item should be 0, because only then it cannot happen that this item drops 2 times for the same person.

You need more hard evidence that you have no idea what you are talking about?

Let me just reverse engineer the game and get you the exact formulas used to determine all of this. This is my personal observation after seeing bosses everyday since they were released. I post an image of a person getting 3 rare drops from a boss and that isnt hard evidence? When these same people keep getting multiple drops from multiple bosses day after day. People who have sold dozens of Liverto weapons. Go play the game for yourself and you will see it. Or wait a week and I will compile plenty of screenshots of drops that people get.

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Posted

lol ok, let me guess you are a ranger? This would be my second point about the imbalance when it comes to ranged vs melee at field bosses. DMG > RNG

Now, just to understand you're stance regarding complaint- What is your AP?

Just want to make sure you've done all that is possible to breach the barrier of damage quote required.

 

Our warrior has recieved 2 zaka weapons. I don't see what you mean, clearly. I can see from your information, but I've seen different.
This leads me to assume that you're running a +5 yuria and upset because you're not doing enough damage, yet you want what you don't have now.

Also no. I'm not a ranger.

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Posted

Now, just to understand you're stance regarding complaint- What is your AP?

Just want to make sure you've done all that is possible to breach the barrier of damage quote required.

 

Our warrior has recieved 2 zaka weapons. I don't see what you mean, clearly. I can see from your information, but I've seen different.
This leads me to assume that you're running a +5 yuria and upset because you're not doing enough damage, yet you want what you don't have now.

Also no. I'm not a ranger.

So you are saying damage is more important? My point is those who got lucky early on now outclass people in lesser gear at bosses. This needs to be changed. And I am full +15 gear with stones but Bad RNG on drops. Zaka is an easier boss to do as melee compared to Bheg or normal Rednose, hell he is easier than Tree. I have been on his top loot table multiple times. This is more towards things like livertos and boss accessories.

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Posted

lol ok, let me guess you are a ranger? This would be my second point about the imbalance when it comes to ranged vs melee at field bosses. DMG > RNG

This is about how it goes:

http://imgur.com/s9IvICT

s9IvICT

Let me just reverse engineer the game and get you the exact formulas used to determine all of this. This is my personal observation after seeing bosses everyday since they were released. I post an image of a person getting 3 rare drops from a boss and that isnt hard evidence? When these same people keep getting multiple drops from multiple bosses day after day. People who have sold dozens of Liverto weapons. Go play the game for yourself and you will see it. Or wait a week and I will compile plenty of screenshots of drops that people get.

love it, so aside from ranger which is expected is indeed sorc + zerk. Well sorc is kinda midpoint from range to melee but not sure if you can dish the max dmg on semi range only. 

But still your comment will be ignored as many people just love to be important. 

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Posted

I have to agree with longtime here. People in my guild don't even grind anymore. They log on for bosses... rangers get the good loot and wait for the next boss to spawn. Stronger getting stronger and poorer getting more poor.

I will say for zaka, that is not the same case as for world bosses. Completely different.

It does get frustrating seeing the same people making a killing off world bosses when you go with the same people and see the same people get a few bundles a day from them. Majority of those people being rangers.

 

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Posted

So you are saying damage is more important? My point is those who got lucky early on now outclass people in lesser gear at bosses. This needs to be changed. And I am full +15 gear with stones but Bad RNG on drops. Zaka is an easier boss to do as melee compared to Bheg or normal Rednose, hell he is easier than Tree. I have been on his top loot table multiple times. This is more towards things like livertos and boss accessories.

Please refer to any of my past 100 or so posts regarding RNG.
It has nothing to do with luck outside of magic believing misconception and ignorance regarding computer science.

That 

being

said.

Yes. Damage is as important as not dying. Since those are the two major factors in being considered for loot.
If you have no idea what RNG is you probably shouldn't talk about it like you know what the hell you're talking about.

For reference, please refer back to my previous posts regarding such as.

 

There is no way for melee to compete much less if they were behind in the early RNG and did not get drops. Something needs to be done to balance this "RNG" it surely is not random.

You're right. It's not random.
But you still don't understand how it works. So, you should go learn that before you continue to make bullshit posts about crap you know 0% about.
Maybe then, we can discuss your problems.
Without that, a dev wouldn't take not 2 seconds of looking at your post.
It simply makes no sense.

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Posted

Please refer to any of my past 100 or so posts regarding RNG.It has nothing to do with luck outside of magic believing misconception and ignorance regarding computer science.

That 

being

said.

Yes. Damage is as important as not dying. Since those are the two major factors in being considered for loot.
If you have no idea what RNG is you probably shouldn't talk about it like you know what the hell you're talking about.

For reference, please refer back to my previous posts regarding such as.

 

You're right. It's not random.But you still don't understand how it works. So, you should go learn that before you continue to make bullshit posts about crap you know 0% about.
Maybe then, we can discuss your problems.
Without that, a dev wouldn't take not 2 seconds of looking at your post.
It simply makes no sense.

Feel free to enlighten us all with how it actually works. I say that the RNG we are experiencing is not actually RNG and you disagree by saying the RNG is not random. Seems like we agree. :/

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Posted (edited)

Longtime is correct.

I play a ranger in a top guild, +15 Kzarka Long Bow, 140AP.  While I cannot produce screenshot proof here, there are rangers/sorcs in the guild, including myself, whom have gotten over 10 liverto bundles/marks/treebelts.  I CONSISTENTLY get livertos off of the bosses.  The reason seems to be that the RNG factor is heavily weighted by damage, not just a high damage threshold but your full damage dealt to the mob.  The way it currently works youll see the top dps players consistently getting the loot because they have biased chance.

This system creates an un-fun experience for the majority of players... even myself.  I don't like seeing the rest of the guild suffer while the rich get richer.  The system needs to be more RNG and less weighted.  Also the melee get royally boned on these bosses, keep dieing, cant do damage, cant get loot...

I have to agree with longtime here. People in my guild don't even grind anymore. They log on for bosses... rangers get the good loot and wait for the next boss to spawn. Stronger getting stronger and poorer getting more poor.

I will say for zaka, that is not the same case as for world bosses. Completely different.

It does get frustrating seeing the same people making a killing off world bosses when you go with the same people and see the same people get a few bundles a day from them. Majority of those people being rangers.

 

So many of our players have re-rolled rangers strictly for loot on world bosses...  Yes our guild also determined that Zaka does not apply to these rules.  All bosses should fallow the Zaka method... PLS @CM_Jouska

Edited by cika
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Posted (edited)

Feel free to enlighten us all with how it actually works. I say that the RNG we are experiencing is not actually RNG and you disagree by saying the RNG is not random. Seems like we agree. :/

RNG is not random because of the computer science behind it. (That is, unless it's designed around actual what we deem to be random occurrences)
RNG is not the deciding factor in whether or not you get loot though.
RNG is only used to calculate for probability and that is it.

Other than that, RNG has no effect on loot shit bro. And there is no way to get "better RNG" without gated factors being breached.
IE. Doing enough damage.

I can't stand when people attempt to use ignorance to buff their point/argument. Like.
You are aware that without RNG there is NO way to calculate for percentile based drop rates, correct?
There is no way to decide who gets what out of >1 situations. lol essentially by saying you have a problem with RNG, you're saying you have a problem with probability. Which in turn, means you probably have a problem with drop rates.

 

That being said, I'll take a step back. If the ranged classes are flooding the player loot pool and essentially locking out other players then that is a problem. But how would you suggest they fix it?

To my understanding, it works like this;

 

In order to be a part of the drop pool during boss/etc. fights, these conditions need to be met:

  1. Enough damage has to be done
  2. Less deaths = higher chance(like horse breeding)

Done.
After those conditions are met, THEN you have a base chance of drop rate for an item yourself, OUT OF the people in that pool.

SO. This means, that if 50 people have met those two(or more I did not mention) conditions, then they have an X drop rate/50 people.

Edited by War

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Posted

Honestly I'm too lazy to read through the thread but I'll give my two cents.

I'm in a top-teir guild. Between rangers, sorcs, giants, valks, wizards, and warriors who all have 140+ AP. I'd say the loot distribution over the last weeks has been 70% rangers, 10% sorc, 5% war 5% wizard and valk/giant/tamer getting maybe 1-3 drops out of the 40 or so I've personally seen drop. Over 30 world boss kills, rangers getting 70% of the loot (liverto / belt / MoS) is not a statistical anomaly. With 20-30-40 people doing said bosses, and most of the loot going to the same 5 or so players, that is all the evidence I need that the current system is not working.

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Posted (edited)

RNG is not random because of the computer science behind it. (That is, unless it's designed around actual what we deem to be random occurrences)RNG is not the deciding factor in whether or not you get loot though.
RNG is only used to calculate for probability and that is it.

Other than that, RNG has no effect on loot shit bro. And there is no way to get "better RNG" without gated factors being breached.
IE. Doing enough damage.

I can't stand when people attempt to use ignorance to buff their point/argument. Like.
You are aware that without RNG there is NO way to calculate for percentile based drop rates, correct?
There is no way to decide who gets what out of >1 situations. lol essentially by saying you have a problem with RNG, you're saying you have a problem with probability. Which in turn, means you probably have a problem with drop rates.

Sure there is nothing truly random which exactly my point. The damage is what determines drop chances and there does not seem to be only two tables.

 

It isn't a clear cut bar it seems to be one pulled higher and higher by those who do top damage.

Edited by LONGTIME

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Posted

Sure there is nothing truly random which exactly my point. The damage is what determines drop chances and there does not seem to be only two tables.

I edited. Not sure if it will help elaborate more.

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Posted

I edited. Not sure if it will help elaborate more.

Your example of how things works seems pretty accurate other than the damage does not seem to be a plateu. That being said ranged classes have a much easier time of doing damage and not dying. Getting near Rednose, Bheg, mudster or tree is a near guarantee of dying at least once. Once you learn the patterns and tells of the bosses you still have to deal with desyncs and just randomness. Sure I can play it safe and not die but then I am never in range to attack. All of this contributes to lower chances of drops.

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Posted

It isn't a clear cut bar it seems to be one pulled higher and higher by those who do top damage.

May be possible. If you guys can start doing tests, provide hard set data, information and proof, then maybe a developer would pay more attention to this issue. Otherwise, why would we want to look at this mess.

We already have sooooo much work on our hands(I am, a developer of the sorts for my current workplace, and in the past). Half baked claims without test, information and proof are likely not to get paid attention to.

This isn't out of disrespect. But if people help us do research, we have more time to hone in on the problem.

 

So basically, get to them excel spreadsheets and get some hard data. Then come back with a beefy post and THEN.
Then we can see what's up.

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Posted (edited)

. This is my personal observation after seeing bosses everyday since they were released. I post an image of a person getting 3 rare drops from a boss and that isnt hard evidence? When these same people keep getting multiple drops from multiple bosses day after day.

Since i already gave you an example and explanation why your personal observation is useless, we can asume you lack the intelligence or education to understand it.
Im not going to repeat the exact same example/explanation, since you haven't even disproved or addressed it when i made it the first time.

 

Go play the game for yourself and you will see it. Or wait a week and I will compile plenty of screenshots of drops that people get.

Since i already told you i nolifed this game since release and you still tell me to actualy play the game, we can conclude that you think nolifing a game means that someone has not actualy played the game. Wich is the most stupid thing i ever heard in this forum.

Evidence that i actualy play the game:
uC4DMhl.png
Alustin(EU) Velia A1 ~17:45

 

 

Let me just reverse engineer the game and get you the exact formulas used to determine all of this.

Thats what i was suggesting by asking for your evidence. The only way to reverse engineer these serverside forumlas would be having enough data to revers calculate the probabilitys and check if they are consistent using methods from probability theorie.
Thats what we do in every game, but you think you are smarter then everyone and you can skip this essential process.
Since you only have your personal observations and no meaningfull dataset, your conclousion that there is NO rng is just a baseless asumption and useless.
Wich has been my exact point from the beginning.
If you actualy would have reverse engineered the issue, there would be no problem at all. The problem is that you draw these conclousion without having reversed engineered anything and you are fully relying on useless personal experience while ignoring every counterevidence someone is providing to you.


 

Edited by Faustus

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Posted

Your example of how things works seems pretty accurate other than the damage does not seem to be a plateu. That being said ranged classes have a much easier time of doing damage and not dying. Getting near Rednose, Bheg, mudster or tree is a near guarantee of dying at least once. Once you learn the patterns and tells of the bosses you still have to deal with desyncs and just randomness. Sure I can play it safe and not die but then I am never in range to attack. All of this contributes to lower chances of drops.

If you're on Orwen, I'd love to help you with testing and designing proper feedback posts with data.
This has been something on my test plate as well, and one of the main reasons that I am getting my ranger up.

 

War does not Change, it Adapts.
So, I'm planning on adapting to the class that will get me the loot so I can progress without having to try and buy off the market.

Thats what i was suggesting by asking for your evidence. The only way to reverse engineer these serverside forumlas would be having enough data to revers calculate the probabilitys and check if they are consistent using methods from probability theorie.Since you only have your personal observations and no meaningfull dataset, your conclousion that there is NO rng is just a baseless asumption and useless.
Wich has been my exact point from the beginning.
If you actualy would have reverse engineered the issue, there would be no problem at all. The problem is that you draw these conclousion without having reversed engineered anything and you are fully relying on useless personal experience.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This.

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Posted

\//\ This rng stuff is splitting my family apart. Everyday we has so many conversations about lewtz being dropped to op class that is op. \//\

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Posted

From my experience as a warrior who has been doing a lot of world bosses with my guild for the past couple week, i gotta say more than 70% of the time its the same rangers class from the guild who has been getting Liverto/TreeBelt, etc, while the rest of melee hardly gotten atleast 1 or 2 and not to mention some people even got a head start at the boss for atleast 10 to 15mins(these are the melee who got atleast 115 ap or higher) and at the end its the rangers or mages who got everything. 

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Posted (edited)

If you're on Orwen, I'd love to help you with testing and designing proper feedback posts with data.
This has been something on my test plate as well, and one of the main reasons that I am getting my ranger up.

 

War does not Change, it Adapts.
So, I'm planning on adapting to the class that will get me the loot so I can progress without having to try and buy off the market.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This.

We will be compiling as much data as we can, which should be a lot. It would be great if more people would help out as well. We are on Edan but feel free to run your own tests.

Edited by LONGTIME

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Posted

In my guild alone I believe Warriors, Valkyries, and Sorcs make up 75% of the world boss loot (Liverto, Kzarka, Tree Spirit Belt) compared to the rest of the guild. I've seen plenty of them die 10+ times on one boss and still get livertos, tree spirit belts, and even kzarka at this point...

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Posted

From personal experience I got my first Liverto from Bheg who was already at 30% health by the time i got there. I really doubt i made it into the top deeps by the time we killed him

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Posted

Tell me what you guys think of maybe this Solution.

Lets say the world boss's have around 10 Million Health, put a damage threshhold on the boss where if you reach this threshhold you can no be put in the roll for top loot. Here is a example.

Boss has 10 Million health and there are 10 Rangers, 10 Tamers, 10 Warriors, 10 Giants.

The damage threshold for top loot is you need to do atleast 300k damage to the boss and now you can be in the roll for top loot (Liverto, Marks, Tree Belts, maybe even boss armor)

All the rangers reach the 300k and of course do more damage because they are ranged

5 of the Tamers have been there since the boss started and have reached the 300k damage.

5 Warriors have reached the 300k damage threshold as well a couple due to gear and knowing the boss fight and a few others dieing a crap ton but been there since it started as well.

5 Giants reach the 300k damage threshhold as well.

Now the others who didn't reach it maybe just got there before he died or didnt have the gear to do the damage so they will be put in the lower tier of loot.

Boss dies and now 10 rangers, 5 Tamers, 5 warriors, and 5 Giants all roll on the top gear (liverto's, marks, tree belts, and so forth). The other 15 who didn't reach that threshold now roll's for the gems, stones, ignots, and so forth.

Anyways what do you guys think of this system? Instead of the TOP damage dealers getting the rolls' as long as you do a certain AMOUNT of damage to the boss you now get put in that roll?

Thanks

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Posted

In my guild alone I believe Warriors, Valkyries, and Sorcs make up 75% of the world boss loot (Liverto, Kzarka, Tree Spirit Belt) compared to the rest of the guild. I've seen plenty of them die 10+ times on one boss and still get livertos, tree spirit belts, and even kzarka at this point...

Doesn't really help at this point. We need data!

From personal experience I got my first Liverto from Bheg who was already at 30% health by the time i got there. I really doubt i made it into the top deeps by the time we killed him

Bheg kills the most so his drops should be the most diverse.

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Posted

Why PvP players can't get loot in this game?

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