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tamer [Report / Feedback] Tamer class balance - 3.03 balance patch (maybe)


157 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

At The moment:

- Positive Feedbacks: 60+

- Negatve Feedbacks: 0, in over 8.8k views

 

Hi all! 

I explain my opinion: I played in KR server with lv 58 tamer and i'm playing actually in RU server with lv 55 tamer, i love 1 vs 1 PVP so i'm often in arena versus all type of players.

Tamer class has an unique pvp style, very fun in my opinion, but to make damage i need to knock my target, and  Tamer's main cc (Trample)  animation is really slow, so most of the time your target will have easy time for dodging it, and if your target has 60% knock resist you must pray. Grapple (Soaring kick) has a slow animation and chain Tamer stationary in its position, vulnerable for all type of skills (Same for Stretch kick knock).

Last knock is upward claw, nice for knock chain, but very to bad to catch people while teleporting, dodging or running.

I must dodge all enemy hits, try to knock him with slow animation skill, and pray for that 40% of sucessfull knock.  Pet dies if you play with a +17 or higher geared players and all your damage is done, and versus ranged class is usefull only for Void Lightining (Q) and Surging tide (Shift + F); 100% charged ulty combo is the ONLY source of Tamer's damage, and maybe WhipSlash (Stationary) other skills barley do anything without your pet.

I talk with many people, i post only 4 of xxx numbers of bad feedback for this class:

 

 

[–]ccc 1 punto 2 giorni fa 

Man I just wonder why do they not scale the pet from the gear and lvl you have? its so stupid in many games the summoner classes are strong early on, but as the pet does not scale at all after its at max lvl and you cant equip it with armors it gets useless in pvp... Man so many gonna be dissapointed, im pretty sure Tamer is the going to be a really popular class in the West.

 

 
 

[–]ccc 1 punto 15 ore fa 

Tamer was top 2 class @RU during launch, and now it's bottom 2 class, that accompanies warrior. Many of them now playing Bladers, Sorcs, Rangers or w\e...

 
 
 
 
 

 

 
 

[–]xxx1 punto 16 ore fa* 

Pet is only one of the many problems, it won't solve everything. Even during +15 cap enchantment, Sorc, Gaint, Valc still outclasses Tamer.

Sorc's cc is slightly better, and damage like two-three times bigger.
Gaint have the most reliable cc, heavily desirable in mass pvp, and still have more damage than Tamer.
Valc is more like a solid middle, great cc, great damage, both significantly better than Tamer.

And i don't expect to see weapon Awakenings anytime soon... even shorten release schedule will have to add: Node wars, Castle Sieges, Mediah 1.0+blader, Mediah 2.0+plum, Valencia 1.0+ Kunoichi, it's like 3-4 month, and still questionable, if we see them before Ninja. (Remember that all this content needs time to be beaten by players before next release popup. It's not reasonable for devs to launch anything new, while players still have enough things to do)

[–]xxx 1 punto 3 giorni fa* 

Tamer's main cc is Trample, but it's animation is really slow, so most of the time your target will have easy time dodging it, aaaand it's KND, so everyone have maxed resist vs this skill. Pet dies in a few hits vs+17 or higher geared players so your Q won't be useful 90% of the time. 100% charged ulty combo w grab is the only source of Tamer's damage, other skills barley do anything.
After all this, Sorc will just jump around with teleports, try to cc you with DoD or Shift+F, or S+E, or Storming crow\Rushing crow, and if she lands one, you will die in a single combo. Also Sorc can just absorb your attack with Dark Flame combo and cc you back. And well timed Sinister Omen with Shard Explosion is just godlike!

As we can see, pet defense scale is one way to balance this class, but the real problem is their knocks.

Random suggestion: A buff that help tamer class with Ignore knockback resist? A cut for the incredible slowness of its knocks? Range extension? 

In essence, it's a pity that to be a competitive player i need to change class, tell me what do you think about this post and sorry for my bad english.

Best regards!

 
 
Edited by Yuuki
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Posted

I am sure many just want to play tamer because they can ride their pet at a certain level :P 

What should i say... i totally agree with you. But i dont think they gonna do any changes. They probably wanna solve all the tamer weaknesses with the awakening. So we can just wait for it and hope for the best.

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Posted (edited)

I am sure many just want to play tamer because they can ride their pet at a certain level :P 

What should i say... i totally agree with you. But i dont think they gonna do any changes. They probably wanna solve all the tamer weaknesses with the awakening. So we can just wait for it and hope for the best.

Yes, but awakening come late rather than release, and we're not sure that it will be a real advantage for tamer class, so i'm very doubtful..

A tamer buff after release it will be useful for all tamer that want to play decently before awakening!

 

Edit: No stamina use while riding pet! ahaha :P

Edited by Yuuki
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Posted

Yes, but awakening come late rather than release, and we're not sure that it will be a real advantage for tamer class, so i'm very doubtful..

A tamer buff after release it will be useful for all tamer that want to play decently before awakening!

 

Edit: No stamina use while riding pet! ahaha :P

considering that the awakening is said to remove the focus from the pet and that all the Awakenings have not been negatives, the awakening is almost garanteed to be good.

The problem with balancing the tamer comes from the fact that it is a pet class. Few games get this balance right and the only action combat game I now that got it close had the pet an overall small part of the character. 2v1 is always a complex thing to balance.

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Posted

Yes, but awakening come late rather than release, and we're not sure that it will be a real advantage for tamer class, so i'm very doubtful..

A tamer buff after release it will be useful for all tamer that want to play decently before awakening!

 

Edit: No stamina use while riding pet! ahaha :P

Yes i am totally with you. I am sure the majority (who knows a bit about end-game) has the same opinion as you. I would love to see some changes for tamer. Also i dont like it that tamer is so dependant on the pet while it dies so fast in a fight (Awakening should change this but you are right that this update is by now still far away). Most people sadly are also not aware of how weak a tamer is in the endgame.

(Riding without stamina would be amazing haha)

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Posted (edited)

 

 

considering that the awakening is said to remove the focus from the pet and that all the Awakenings have not been negatives, the awakening is almost garanteed to be good.

The problem with balancing the tamer comes from the fact that it is a pet class. Few games get this balance right and the only action combat game I now that got it close had the pet an overall small part of the character. 2v1 is always a complex thing to balance.

Sure, but awakening will be good for all classes, so it's an hazard.
In my opinion, simple changes like i said in my first post should be very usefull to help this class, all manteining this class balanced

Edited by Yuuki
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Posted

Yes i am totally with you. I am sure the majority (who knows a bit about end-game) has the same opinion as you. I would love to see some changes for tamer. Also i dont like it that tamer is so dependant on the pet while it dies so fast in a fight (Awakening should change this but you are right that this update is by now still far away). Most people sadly are also not aware of how weak a tamer is in the endgame.

(Riding without stamina would be amazing ahah)

This is my  Hope,  daum Games And their staff are making An Incredible work with the community, And for sure they Can do something amazing!

Yes, totally agree with the rest

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Posted

Excellent guide!!!

 

:x

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Posted (edited)

well... I kinda like your avatar...

Edited by Tinkz
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Posted

well... I kinda like your avatar...

Nice ahaha but something about tamer class balance?

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Posted

(speaking from my point of view, backed up with Tamer gameplay since OBT Japan 04/2015)

I don't really see the problem in long and static or dodgeable animations. Thats been this way since day one when the Tamer was a strong PvP-Class however.

In my opinion they screwed up with not making the pet scale with > +15 enchants. This and the upcoming CC-Nerf (DR on CCs for 6sec) will make the Tamer almost unplayable in smallscale pvp. As you summed it up, the tamer's personal dmg (pet aside) is based on the oponents knockdown state.

I'm okay with not playing a class wich isn't #1 of the foodchain anymore but taking out 50% or more of a class's dmg-output in 1-3 hits and limiting knockdowns to every 6 seconds so Tamer dmg is reduced even more is obvious broken.

More and more people switching class because of that and I'll see less and less Tamer around in Japan. But I guess DAUM / Pearl Abyss are already getting a lot of feedback from there playerbase in Korea and Japan so I don't worry much we will even have to deal with that in the EU/NA release by the time we reach the above +15 threshold (fingers crossed).

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Posted

(speaking from my point of view, backed up with Tamer gameplay since OBT Japan 04/2015)

I don't really see the problem in long and static or dodgeable animations. Thats been this way since day one when the Tamer was a strong PvP-Class however.

In my opinion they screwed up with not making the pet scale with > +15 enchants. This and the upcoming CC-Nerf (DR on CCs for 6sec) will make the Tamer almost unplayable in smallscale pvp. As you summed it up, the tamer's personal dmg (pet aside) is based on the oponents knockdown state.

I'm okay with not playing a class wich isn't #1 of the foodchain anymore but taking out 50% or more of a class's dmg-output in 1-3 hits and limiting knockdowns to every 6 seconds so Tamer dmg is reduced even more is obvious broken.

More and more people switching class because of that and I'll see less and less Tamer around in Japan. But I guess DAUM / Pearl Abyss are already getting a lot of feedback from there playerbase in Korea and Japan so I don't worry much we will even have to deal with that in the EU/NA release by the time we reach the above +15 threshold (fingers crossed).

nothing to add here, threads done boys

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Posted

(speaking from my point of view, backed up with Tamer gameplay since OBT Japan 04/2015)

I don't really see the problem in long and static or dodgeable animations. Thats been this way since day one when the Tamer was a strong PvP-Class however.

In my opinion they screwed up with not making the pet scale with > +15 enchants. This and the upcoming CC-Nerf (DR on CCs for 6sec) will make the Tamer almost unplayable in smallscale pvp. As you summed it up, the tamer's personal dmg (pet aside) is based on the oponents knockdown state.

I'm okay with not playing a class wich isn't #1 of the foodchain anymore but taking out 50% or more of a class's dmg-output in 1-3 hits and limiting knockdowns to every 6 seconds so Tamer dmg is reduced even more is obvious broken.

More and more people switching class because of that and I'll see less and less Tamer around in Japan. But I guess DAUM / Pearl Abyss are already getting a lot of feedback from there playerbase in Korea and Japan so I don't worry much we will even have to deal with that in the EU/NA release by the time we reach the above +15 threshold (fingers crossed).

Totally agree, but what i would say it was that in addition to the problem with scaling and end game, Tamer borns with probably worst knock in BDO, and for a knock-dipendent class is so bad..

Ty for your opinion!

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Posted

Well it will be very usefull to put a set that ignore 25-30% kd and stun resistance(like a Valencia set) without using gem so you can have more attack speed, incrasing the Hp  or damage resistence in pvp for tamer's pet lvl 54 i think that it will be very usefull IF IT'S REALY unbelanced at endgame.
Of course the pet must stay alive almost for 1-2 minute in mass pvp if not focused  by enemies' blob

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Posted

Well I know nothing about endgame as I'm just starting with NA ,but Tamer looked to be the most fun class to me (available now at least) so hopefully, they do something along the lines of the above posts as it will be disappointing to either have to stay with a terrible endgame class or swap to something else at some point in the future.

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Posted (edited)

Well I know nothing about endgame as I'm just starting with NA ,but Tamer looked to be the most fun class to me (available now at least) so hopefully, they do something along the lines of the above posts as it will be disappointing to either have to stay with a terrible endgame class or swap to something else at some point in the future.

You will have a blast playing Tamer for at least 3-4 months until Media hits and more and more people got there weapons to above +15.
Maybe they will be aware of the problem by then and we won't even get the Tamer in her current state then.

Roll Tamer.

Edited by Tinkz
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Posted

You will have a blast playing Tamer for at least 3-4 months until Media hits and more and more people got there weapons to above +15.Maybe they will be aware of the problem by now and we won't even get the Tamer in her current state then.

Roll Tamer.

Sounds good, and as you said hopefully they take note of all of the feedback ^^

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Posted

You will have a blast playing Tamer for at least 3-4 months until Media hits and more and more people got there weapons to above +15.Maybe they will be aware of the problem by then and we won't even get the Tamer in her current state then.

Roll Tamer.

Before media pet can resist and it isnt a real problem, but player with 60% knock resist will be in 1 month max, in my opinion with this knock its hard versus a skilled player like you and same gear, obviusly! 

Actually i'm playing in RU server with media, and vs 60% knock ranger or sorcerer you can't catch them, vs warrior, valk, and giant if you resist knocks you risk to be taken bt Grapple or knock and shotted hard!

 

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Posted (edited)

Heilang doesn't scale with Tamer's gear enchancement level. Once you get the final summoning skill level, it just stays there. As a result, it is balanced for that exact level, but doesn't take the fact players can massively enchant their gear, which will cause them to greatly surprass Heilang's powers.

In my opinion, it could be solved by adding gear for Heilang, but it would propably also make the lower level combat ridiculously unbalanced (unless it would be only available after level 50). It would most propably still require enchanting as well... making Tamer twice as much grindy in terms of obtaining appropriate gear for combat, unless the gear would be a lot more simplifed and differently scaled than standard player gear.

They could as well simply add another level of skill after awakening, but iirc, PA actually has plans to minimize the beast's influence for awakened tamers, focusing to rebalance and strenghten their skills instead.

Edited by Narcosis
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Posted

Heilang doesn't scale with Tamer's gear enchancement level. Once you get the final summoning skill level, it just stays there. As a result, it is balanced for that exact level, but doesn't take the fact players can massively enchant their gear, which will cause them to greatly surprass Heilang's powers.

In my opinion, it could be solved by adding gear for Heilang, but it would propably also make the lower level combat ridiculously unbalanced (unless it would be only available after level 50). It would most propably still require enchanting as well... making Tamer twice as much grindy in terms of obtaining appropriate gear for combat, unless the gear would be a lot more simplifed and differently scaled than standard player gear.

They could as well simply add another level of skill after awakening, but iirc, PA actually has plans to minimize the beast's influence for awakened tamers, focusing to rebalance and strenghten their skills instead.

 
Right, but it's only half of the problem.
We Hypothesize an immortal Heilang in pvp, maybe versus full melee class you can win, but versus ranged class the problems remains, because you have: (100% resist-60% knock resist = 40% chance) - (Miss chance accuracy dipendent) = Chance to knock him, and this for all the chain stun..
Valencia equip come so far rather than release, and about Awakening we don't know the real changes, in my opinion to balance all Tamer awakening should be stronger than others, but i don't think that it will be a possible scenario

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Posted (edited)

If I remember correctly, Tamer wasn't really ever meant to be exceptionally strong in PvP; it was meant mostly as a PvE-centric class. It may sound a little punishing, but that's how things stand at the moment. Doesn't change the fact, my main character will still be a Tamer ' 3'

Edited by Narcosis

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iirc, Tamer wasn't really ever meant to be exceptionally strong in PvP; it was mainly meant mostly as a PvE-centric class. It may sound a little punishing, but that's how things stand at the moment. Doesn't change the fact, my main character will still be a Tamer ' 3'

I like Tamer too, but PVE it's too easy to say "PVE oriented", all class can easily play PVE, but why Tamer can't play a competitive PVP like the others? 
Daum! I invoke you!

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Posted (edited)

Every other class has to deal with resists too.
Granted, Tamer needs the KD-state to dish out decent dmg but 

60394166.jpg

Edited by Tinkz

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Posted

I like Tamer too, but PVE it's too easy to say "PVE oriented", all class can easily play PVE, but why Tamer can't play a competitive PVP like the others? Daum! I invoke you!

yeah, every class can steam roll PvE in this game, so there really isn't a reason to have a PvE centered class, especially when one of the big features of the game is PvP and GvG

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Posted (edited)

Guys all feedback are important, if you have an idea, or you have tested and see the same problem write in this post, it is the only Hope to make something Good! 

Yes Koinzell, in a pvp game like BDO you cant play with a pet that in GVG DIE easily with AOE, in 1v1 you are knocks dependent with bad skills..

Its also a melee and squishy class, And if they catch you, you are Done :P

Edited by Yuuki
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