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Why did they remove the cost of a 1 sided war?


41 posts in this topic

Posted

Why does it no longer cost a guild $$$ each hour to war dec when its not returned?

this is causing the biggest guild to be able to just bully everyone with no cost on them and only hurt those who cant do anything but change channels and hope they don't follow.

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Posted

Why does it no longer cost a guild $$$ each hour to war dec when its not returned?

this is causing the biggest guild to be able to just bully everyone with no cost on them and only hurt those who cant do anything but change channels and hope they don't follow.

Big guilds can abuse it, yes that's a problem. However if you implement the upkeep costs, small pvp centered guilds get royally dicked. Every guild has their preferred channel, so its relatively easy to avoid if you're being "Griefed"  

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Posted

Because we wanted more pvp in our version and with 150k / 200k per hour upkeep on war decs pvp will be so minimal and scarce it defeats the whole purpose of a open world pvp sandbox mmo.

 

And like Cryptid said, there are small guilds who like to pvp also, they wont be able to afford war decs anymore and need to join big guilds wich is a seriously flawed mechenic if you want to remain a small pvp force.

 

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Posted (edited)

Because we wanted more pvp in our version and with 150k / 200k per hour upkeep on war decs pvp will be so minimal and scarce it defeats the whole purpose of a open world pvp sandbox mmo.

 

And like Cryptid said, there are small guilds who like to pvp also, they wont be able to afford war decs anymore and need to join big guilds wich is a seriously flawed mechenic if you want to remain a small pvp force.

 

I team of 5 people can do 5 large guild missions and make bank for war decks and there free if both partys declare the way the system is now big guilds see a guild getting strong they dec and leave it there perm. so that the up and coming guild get grieffed till they have to move and hope it does not happen in next channel or lose any momentum they have plus with super guilds that have 300+ members it makes it easy to do this tacit over multiple servers

 

At least with a sustained hourly ( one sided dec) cost you knew that unless they literally did 5 extra large a day and paid there members little to nothing the decs could only last so long.

Edited by Destro V Blood

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Posted

I team of 5 people can do 5 large guild missions and make bank for war decks and there free if both partys declare the way the system is now big guilds see a guild getting strong they dec and leave it there perm. so that the up and coming guild get grieffed till they have to move and hope it does not happen in next channel or lose any momentum they have plus with super guilds that have 300+ members it makes it easy to do this tacit over multiple servers

 

At least with a sustained hourly ( one sided dec) cost you knew that unless they literally did 5 extra large a day and paid there members little to nothing the decs could only last so long.

So basically, Screw small guides? Both systems suck. At least with the one we have i can pvp in my 15 man guild without having to spend 3 hours a day doing guild missions.

And before you mention it, no i will not join a big guild, every MMO I've played I've given bigger guilds a chance and I've always been disappointed and end up just taking my friends to make a new one, with far less bullschit people to deal with. 

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Posted

Why does it no longer cost a guild $$$ each hour to war dec when its not returned?

this is causing the biggest guild to be able to just bully everyone with no cost on them and only hurt those who cant do anything but change channels and hope they don't follow.

No, it's not like that at all, because the biggest guilds can only declare on 6 other guilds total. Very few of the biggest guilds are going to waste their war decs on a 15 man guild. 

Even war deccing against 6x 100 man guilds.. there are simply too many channels and stuff it's so hard to find pvp. Takes hours of scouting until you get lucky and find them at a guild mission before you can get a real fight. 

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Posted

No, it's not like that at all, because the biggest guilds can only declare on 6 other guilds total. Very few of the biggest guilds are going to waste their war decs on a 15 man guild. 

Even war deccing against 6x 100 man guilds.. there are simply too many channels and stuff it's so hard to find pvp. Takes hours of scouting until you get lucky and find them at a guild mission before you can get a real fight. 

we have been getting griefed for days at every guild mission with a war that has been dec for a week

So basically, Screw small guides? Both systems suck. At least with the one we have i can pvp in my 15 man guild without having to spend 3 hours a day doing guild missions.

And before you mention it, no i will not join a big guild, every MMO I've played I've given bigger guilds a chance and I've always been disappointed and end up just taking my friends to make a new one, with far less bullschit people to deal with. 

you should be doing mission for the guild points anyway the fact that you are not for the extra pvp buffs seems counter productive

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Posted

don't want to get war'd on, don't be in a guild

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Posted

we have been getting griefed for days at every guild mission with a war that has been dec for a week

Doesn't sound like griefing to me, sounds like pvp. 

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Posted (edited)

Doesn't sound like griefing to me, sounds like pvp. 

This may be a pvp centred game but the mechanics can still be abused, look at the recent forum posts people blocked for pvp harassment.  People need to know where pvp ends and griefing starts.

This may be a game but there's still rules and regulations.

Edited by Shanir
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Posted

War-decs should cost something. But surely you can use the same logic that changes guild upkeep costs to handle variable guild dec costs? If a guild wants to run 6 asymmetrical war-decs constantly, then they should have to take some time to upkeep that. Isn't that the nature of the pve to support pvp ecosystem?

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Posted

This may be a pvp centred game but the mechanics can still be abused, look at the recent forum posts people blocked for pvp harassment.  People need to know where pvp ends and griefing starts.

This may be a game but there's still rules and regulations.

this.

there seems to be an increase in allowed "asshole" activity with the excuse 'durr durr it is pvp'

most of it has nothing to do with pvp, pvp is fun, engaging, inviting and invigorating.

meeting assholes has nothing to do with pvp, and it shames the entire pvp and game community that they are allowed to remain abusive..

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Posted

you should be doing mission for the guild points anyway the fact that you are not for the extra pvp buffs seems counter productive

The diminishing returns makes them an exercise in futility after the first couple of levels. So this argument is somewhat invalid, fact remains that adding the cost per hour cripples owpvp. 

/thread 

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Posted

This may be a pvp centred game but the mechanics can still be abused, look at the recent forum posts people blocked for pvp harassment.  People need to know where pvp ends and griefing starts.

This may be a game but there's still rules and regulations.

Those people very likely went above and beyond and most likely broke numerous of the terms of service, I'm willing to bet what happened was much much deeper than just pvp. Stopping someone from doing guild quests is an intended mechanic. That is why each guild quest is channel and location locked.  

Part of the sandboxy part of this MMORPG is not pissing of a guild that can utterly shit on you. What did you possibly do to let your little non-pvp guild get in the crosshairs of someone who is willing to hunt you to the ends of the earth? What steps have you taken to resolve this? Have you gone to a bigger guild and asked for help? Have your guild leaders done *anything*, tried to organize defense? Or did they just show up and kill you once and you abandoned the quest? It's 3 hours, and especially the mediah quests each have a MASSIVE area you can complete them in. As someone who has tried to stop other guild quests, it's damn near IMPOSSIBLE to actually do if their members just refuse to give up. I'm thinking your guilds issue is literally that you got killed once or twice then gave up and went to do other things instead of trying to finish the guild quest, sneaking in from other sides, etc. 

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Posted

Those people very likely went above and beyond and most likely broke numerous of the terms of service, I'm willing to bet what happened was much much deeper than just pvp. Stopping someone from doing guild quests is an intended mechanic. That is why each guild quest is channel and location locked.  

Part of the sandboxy part of this MMORPG is not pissing of a guild that can utterly shit on you. What did you possibly do to let your little non-pvp guild get in the crosshairs of someone who is willing to hunt you to the ends of the earth? What steps have you taken to resolve this? Have you gone to a bigger guild and asked for help? Have your guild leaders done *anything*, tried to organize defense? Or did they just show up and kill you once and you abandoned the quest? It's 3 hours, and especially the mediah quests each have a MASSIVE area you can complete them in. As someone who has tried to stop other guild quests, it's damn near IMPOSSIBLE to actually do if their members just refuse to give up. I'm thinking your guilds issue is literally that you got killed once or twice then gave up and went to do other things instead of trying to finish the guild quest, sneaking in from other sides, etc. 

That's just asinine.  All it takes to "piss off a guild" is to be anywhere near the area where one of their guild members is doing something.  Then it's just "Oh hey, we'll declare war, since there's no upkeep, so we can just steamroll them every time we see them."  It's stupid.  If you want to start a war, there should be an upkeep for it.  We've had war declared on us by a much larger and MUCH more geared guild for 3 weeks now, all because a member ran by one of their members near a grinding spot.

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Posted (edited)

That's just asinine.  All it takes to "piss off a guild" is to be anywhere near the area where one of their guild members is doing something.  Then it's just "Oh hey, we'll declare war, since there's no upkeep, so we can just steamroll them every time we see them."  It's stupid.  If you want to start a war, there should be an upkeep for it.  We've had war declared on us by a much larger and MUCH more geared guild for 3 weeks now, all because a member ran by one of their members near a grinding spot.

There are a dozen channels. It takes serious effort to actually track down an enemy guild who could be anywhere in calpheon or mediah doing a guild quest at anytime of the day on any channel. If you are getting your guild quests camped, it means you pissed off this guild so much to the point where they have scouts in 12 channels actively looking for your guild doing guild quests. Realize that's more than 10% of their total guild players doing nothing but looking for you. Call it asinine, but seriously, think about it just how much effort it would take to camp you in the way you described and then tell me there isn't obviously more to the story. Oh, and in addition to all that, it's a THREE HOUR window they have to camp you in. THREE. HOURS. per quest. 5 times a day, 

 Yea, there is 100% more than to this story than you are revealing. 

 

Edited by Walk

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Posted

The diminishing returns makes them an exercise in futility after the first couple of levels. So this argument is somewhat invalid, fact remains that adding the cost per hour cripples owpvp. 

/thread 

cost per hour only applies to a 1 sided dec if you wanna go at someone you message them agree to it and both dec cost goes bye bye

There are a dozen channels. It takes serious effort to actually track down an enemy guild who could be anywhere in calpheon or mediah doing a guild quest at anytime of the day on any channel. If you are getting your guild quests camped, it means you pissed off this guild so much to the point where they have scouts in 12 channels actively looking for your guild doing guild quests. Realize that's more than 10% of their total guild players doing nothing but looking for you. Call it asinine, but seriously, think about it just how much effort it would take to camp you in the way you described and then tell me there isn't obviously more to the story. Oh, and in addition to all that, it's a THREE HOUR window they have to camp you in. THREE. HOURS. per quest. 5 times a day, 

 Yea, there is 100% more than to this story than you are revealing. 

 

doesnt take much effort when the guild is 300 strong and when camping a guild keeps them from doing there quest in time and cost them more in failed guild mission funds then it would cost the camping guild in 3 hours of war dec funds

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Posted (edited)

In a 1sided war the beginner of the war should pay taxis increasing more, scaling with the difference of the guild level and the time of the war. Or they should still lose 50% of their carma.  But it can't be that big massive guilds can suspend other guilds from playing the game without any punishment. Tell me 1 reason why should I reply to a war?  To see the stats? To make that the other guild has not to pay for the war? That makes no sense for anybody. Work on that or many people will leave the game on European servers.

Edited by Slidex

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Posted

cost per hour only applies to a 1 sided dec if you wanna go at someone you message them agree to it and both dec cost goes bye bye

doesnt take much effort when the guild is 300 strong and when camping a guild keeps them from doing there quest in time and cost them more in failed guild mission funds then it would cost the camping guild in 3 hours of war dec funds

Max guild size is 100. Unless you've somehow managed to piss off an entire alliance, which really, really only further pushes me towards thinking there is a massive ass story behind this. 

Welcome to sandbox, where your actions matter because politics matter.

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Posted (edited)

There are a dozen channels. It takes serious effort to actually track down an enemy guild who could be anywhere in calpheon or mediah doing a guild quest at anytime of the day on any channel. If you are getting your guild quests camped, it means you pissed off this guild so much to the point where they have scouts in 12 channels actively looking for your guild doing guild quests. Realize that's more than 10% of their total guild players doing nothing but looking for you. Call it asinine, but seriously, think about it just how much effort it would take to camp you in the way you described and then tell me there isn't obviously more to the story. Oh, and in addition to all that, it's a THREE HOUR window they have to camp you in. THREE. HOURS. per quest. 5 times a day, 

 Yea, there is 100% more than to this story than you are revealing. 

 

I'm not talking about guild quests, the other guy was.  I'm just talking about the ability to have a one sided war go on indefinitely.  When they have enough players to be camping the top grinding spots on every single channel, then what exactly does hopping to another channel do?  They're not camping us specifically, but basically you're stuck doing nothing worthwhile because all the spots are taken.  There isn't more to the story.  The story is that they've been at war with us for 3 weeks now, and there is no upkeep on that.  It's stupid.

Edited by Tricsun

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Posted

I'm not talking about guild quests, the other guy was.  I'm just talking about the ability to have a one sided war go on indefinitely.  When they have enough players to be camping the top grinding spots on every single channel, then what exactly does hopping to another channel do?  They're not camping us specifically, but basically you're stuck doing nothing worthwhile because all the spots are taken.  There isn't more to the story.  The story is that they've been at war with us for 3 weeks now, and there is no upkeep on that.  It's stupid.

How is the war relevant then? If they are all grinding in all spots in all channels, they're just gonna flag up and kill your exp if you try and contest them anyway. The war at that point simply means you have a member who likes to try and abuse the karma system by repeatedly deathrushing, in which case, yea, you deserve to be warred on. 

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Posted

I team of 5 people can do 5 large guild missions and make bank for war decks and there free if both partys declare the way the system is now big guilds see a guild getting strong they dec and leave it there perm. so that the up and coming guild get grieffed till they have to move and hope it does not happen in next channel or lose any momentum they have plus with super guilds that have 300+ members it makes it easy to do this tacit over multiple servers

 

At least with a sustained hourly ( one sided dec) cost you knew that unless they literally did 5 extra large a day and paid there members little to nothing the decs could only last so long.

you miss the point completely.  a 20 man guild will struggle a lot more than a 100 man guild when it comes to keeping funds for those type of guild wars.  

i personally dont want to be part of the 5 man you mention doing guild missions for 5 hours a day just so i can pvp a little.

unless the size of the guild effects the upkeep cost then it just wouldn't work.  

20 man guild - 50k upkeep

100 man guild - 300k upkeep etc

even then i would still disagree with an upkeep cost.  its a pvp sandbox game.

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Posted (edited)

At the end of the day if you choose to be in a small guild, you do so knowing there are going to be bigger guilds out there who can fight you on unfavourable terms for you. If you can't cope with that you shouldn't be in a small guild. I choose to be in a small guild because I prefer the challenge of fighting against the odds than steamrolling over people with 4:1 odds. Each to their own, but you need to be aware of the position you put yourself in with your choice of guild. If you're going to complain about being 'bullied' you're probably playing the wrong game and certainly in the wrong guild.

The system as it is allows guilds of all sizes to enjoy PvP against opposition of all sizes. This makes for a much more interesting PvP scene for everyone involved. This week I've been involved in 10v10 and 5v5 organised GvGs, outnumbered fights against bigger guilds - us numbering anywhere from 3-15 against enemies with up to four times our number. It's been a blast. The only thing that will keep me playing this game is the PvP so please don't try to find a way to take that away.

Edited by miri

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Posted

you miss the point completely.  a 20 man guild will struggle a lot more than a 100 man guild when it comes to keeping funds for those type of guild wars.  

i personally dont want to be part of the 5 man you mention doing guild missions for 5 hours a day just so i can pvp a little.

unless the size of the guild effects the upkeep cost then it just wouldn't work.  

20 man guild - 50k upkeep

100 man guild - 300k upkeep etc

even then i would still disagree with an upkeep cost.  its a pvp sandbox game.

an you missed the point that a 2 sided dec negates all costs so if the 20 man team wanted to pvp they should get an agreed war dec

At the end of the day if you choose to be in a small guild, you do so knowing there are going to be bigger guilds out there who can fight you on unfavourable terms for you. If you can't cope with that you shouldn't be in a small guild. I choose to be in a small guild because I prefer the challenge of fighting against the odds than steamrolling over people with 4:1 odds. Each to their own, but you need to be aware of the position you put yourself in with your choice of guild. If you're going to complain about being 'bullied' you're probably playing the wrong game and certainly in the wrong guild.

The system as it is allows guilds of all sizes to enjoy PvP against opposition of all sizes. This makes for a much more interesting PvP scene for everyone involved. This week I've been involved in 10v10 and 5v5 organised GvGs, outnumbered fights against bigger guilds - us numbering anywhere from 3-15 against enemies with up to four times our number. It's been a blast. The only thing that will keep me playing this game is the PvP so please don't try to find a way to take that away.

im not trying to take it away im trying to get it to return to normal the way it was when it started

 

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Posted

you miss the point completely.  a 20 man guild will struggle a lot more than a 100 man guild when it comes to keeping funds for those type of guild wars.  

i personally dont want to be part of the 5 man you mention doing guild missions for 5 hours a day just so i can pvp a little.

unless the size of the guild effects the upkeep cost then it just wouldn't work.  

20 man guild - 50k upkeep

100 man guild - 300k upkeep etc

even then i would still disagree with an upkeep cost.  its a pvp sandbox game. 

It is a hard thing to balance properly but it can be done. Something like this could make sense, but may be difficult to implement:

5k for the first hour, increasing by 5k for every subsequent hour of the declaration up to a maximum of 1% of current guild funds or 250k, whichever is lower. This amount decreases by 5k per hour for every hour the aggressor is not declared or every hour the declaration is accepted.

Small guilds earn less money than large guilds and would most likely cap out at a much lower level. The maximum being a percentage of the total guild funds effects both small and large guilds roughly the same due to the difference in cost for guild boss scrolls and the number of players you are paying. The cap of 250k at a guild fund total of 25m or higher keeps the cost at a reasonable level and takes a decent amount of time to actually stack up that high. In order for the aggressor to "grief" their target they must either pay a high cost or have a declaration uptime of around 50% to keep costs in line.

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