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Add vsync options.

24 posts in this topic

Posted

Hello!

Let me start of with listing my machines specs to get my point across better.

R9 390X
i7-4790k
16GB RAM

As you can see I have a pretty beefy rig but because of vysnc I run into very annoying frame stuttering. Because my monitor has 60Hz my FPS is locked at 60, normally this is not an issue as 60FPS is a perfect standard to aim for but in Black Desert Online when I start combat or a lot of effects are happening around me I will suffer some frame loss of about 5 to 10 frames. This can get very annoying and really pulls me out of the game.

If I could disable vsync my FPS would most likely shoot up to about 80FPS (Just a rough estimate) then I would have 30FPS of head room where losing those 5 to 10 frames wouldn't be noticeable. Another issue is that when I play Black Desert Online my PC doesn't even break a sweat so the game is obviously not even using its potential which is odd. So my suggestion is add some sort of way to disable vsync whether its through a .ini file or in-game either or will do and no I can't override it with my graphics card for some reason this only works with Nvidia cards.

Thank you for reading!

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Posted

i agree, we need a way to toggle vsync on/off. people would argue that you dont need to exceed your monitor's refresh rate, but i hate having my max at 60 and frames dropping below that. i want to be able to play and not have my frames drop below 60. i dont care much for screen tearing, and in most games input feels smoother with high frame rates that go beyond my monitor's refresh rate

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Posted

Herm... Even if you were to disable Vsync and have your framerate skyrockets to 80+ as soon as you'll be in combat with shiny particles and fluffy animations your framerate will still drop to 50 or 55 or whatever it is when you do have Vsync :/ 

Removing Vsync doesn't magically boost your framerate by 20 :D 

I do use adaptive Vsync but my framerate almost never drop under 60 at all during normal gameplay even when there are some players around in towns (in Fullscreen, in fullscreen windowed I got some weird performance losses at times) , ofc without High-End Mode setting since that just shits on your framerate just to "fix" the texture/objects pop in issue some have (barely noticed it, maybe cause I use a SSD?)

For reference my computer specs are: cpu i5 6600K (currently at 4.2 GHz tho) & gpu 980 Ti (currently at 1450 MHz) with 2x4 GB DDR4 ram.

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Posted

i agree, we need a way to toggle vsync on/off. people would argue that you dont need to exceed your monitor's refresh rate, but i hate having my max at 60 and frames dropping below that. i want to be able to play and not have my frames drop below 60. i dont care much for screen tearing, and in most games input feels smoother with high frame rates that go beyond my monitor's refresh rate

Glad someone agree's. I generally don't have much issue with screen tearing either so I'd gladly deal with it for a few extra frames.

Herm... Even if you were to disable Vsync and have your framerate skyrockets to 80+ as soon as you'll be in combat with shiny particles and fluffy animations your framerate will still drop to 50 or 55 or whatever it is when you do have Vsync :/ 

Removing Vsync doesn't magically boost your framerate by 20 :D 

I do use adaptive Vsync but my framerate almost never drop under 60 at all during normal gameplay even when there are some players around in towns (in Fullscreen, in fullscreen windowed I got some weird performance losses at times) , ofc without High-End Mode setting since that just shits on your framerate just to "fix" the texture/objects pop in issue some have (barely noticed it, maybe cause I use a SSD?)

For reference my computer specs are: cpu i5 6600K (currently at 4.2 GHz tho) & gpu 980 Ti (currently at 1450 MHz) with 2x4 GB DDR4 ram.

Just before I say anything I was playing on the RU version of the game and not during CBT1 so I am not sure if our Beta version is somehow magically better optimized. You mentioned you enabled adaptive vsync am guessing through forcing it via your Nvidia Panel and that is why you're most likely experiencing less random minor frame drops in the world try playing with the vsync the game provides and report back if you get the chance, as for AMD users we're actually unable to use our Control Panel to affect the game for some reason.

Another good reason to have the ability to turn of vsync is if you own a G-sync or a Freesync monitor and you wish to use those technologies it would be fantastic for those players to have that option. (I am pretty sure G-sync users can already since Nvidia cards can override the in game vsync)

To be honest am not one to notice pop in but yes having the game installed on an SSD would definitely reduce that.

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Posted

Removing Vsync doesn't magically boost your framerate by 20 :D 

 

this should be true but i benchmarked a couple games with vsync on/off and some of their minimum fps was higher without vsync. most of the games weren't too noticeable though, but when i benchmarked payday2, the difference with vsync off was incredibly noticeable.

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Posted (edited)

@PeachyBear

390 user here, I played in RU for some time.
Had mostly 45-60 when nothing's happening but frames would often drop, mostly in towns or when going fast on horseback (sometimes even <15).
I'd be very pleased if frames were 50-60 and >30 in towns or large scale PvP. Also tried fiddling with the settings, didn't help much.

Should mention that a friend of mine who tried CBT 1 said his framerate was much better, I really hope that's the case.
Will try see for myself on CBT 2!

Edited by Salaryman

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Posted (edited)

Herm... Even if you were to disable Vsync and have your framerate skyrockets to 80+ as soon as you'll be in combat with shiny particles and fluffy animations your framerate will still drop to 50 or 55 or whatever it is when you do have Vsync :/ 

Removing Vsync doesn't magically boost your framerate by 20 :D 

I do use adaptive Vsync but my framerate almost never drop under 60 at all during normal gameplay even when there are some players around in towns (in Fullscreen, in fullscreen windowed I got some weird performance losses at times) , ofc without High-End Mode setting since that just shits on your framerate just to "fix" the texture/objects pop in issue some have (barely noticed it, maybe cause I use a SSD?)

For reference my computer specs are: cpu i5 6600K (currently at 4.2 GHz tho) & gpu 980 Ti (currently at 1450 MHz) with 2x4 GB DDR4 ram.

it doesn't boost the FPS, but usually you drop to 50-55 fps only for a second, till your GPU has caught up, having the extra 20fps buffer would fix that

 

@PeachyBear

390 user here, I played in RU for some time.
Had mostly 45-60 when nothing's happening but frames would often drop, mostly in towns or when going fast on horseback (sometimes even <15).
I'd be very pleased if frames were 50-60 and >30 in towns or large scale PvP. Also tried fiddling with the settings, didn't help much.

Should mention that a friend of mine who tried CBT 1 said his framerate was much better, I really hope that's the case.
Will try see for myself on CBT 2!

are you using ultra high? what is your cpu? your ram? I doubt that it's the fault of the gpu, a 390 should be able to handle high settings, ultra high is for sli/crossfire setups

Edited by Koinzell

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Posted

Glad someone agree's. I generally don't have much issue with screen tearing either so I'd gladly deal with it for a few extra frames.

Just before I say anything I was playing on the RU version of the game and not during CBT1 so I am not sure if our Beta version is somehow magically better optimized. You mentioned you enabled adaptive vsync am guessing through forcing it via your Nvidia Panel and that is why you're most likely experiencing less random minor frame drops in the world try playing with the vsync the game provides and report back if you get the chance, as for AMD users we're actually unable to use our Control Panel to affect the game for some reason.

Another good reason to have the ability to turn of vsync is if you own a G-sync or a Freesync monitor and you wish to use those technologies it would be fantastic for those players to have that option. (I am pretty sure G-sync users can already since Nvidia cards can override the in game vsync)

To be honest am not one to notice pop in but yes having the game installed on an SSD would definitely reduce that.

Oh yeah, good points. Didn't take those into consideration, my bad.

Yeah forcing or removing Vsync in Nvidia Control Panel does seem to work somehow with BDO... For some being in windowed (or fullscreen) make them get down to 30 FPS locked, so yeah, the client does have many weird issues in regard to refresh rate and framerate sync (apparently the client hijacks your monitor's refresh rate sometimes :o )

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Posted

this should be true but i benchmarked a couple games with vsync on/off and some of their minimum fps was higher without vsync. most of the games weren't too noticeable though, but when i benchmarked payday2, the difference with vsync off was incredibly noticeable.

Interesting. I do remember noticing something similar, but that was only long ago when my computer was crappy while trying to run 'high end' games of that era...

Maybe I don't notice any difference cause my computers have since then been overkill for what I (try to) run (or I simply would ignore too demanding games when my rig wasn't enough).

It's the same when you run games in windowed mode instead of fullscreen, for some you can still get a full 60 fps ofc, but for some more demanding games, you WILL notice the drop in framerate if your rig struggles.

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Posted

Doesn't catalyst center or whatever its called, has an option to disable/enable v-sync?

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Posted

Interesting. I do remember noticing something similar, but that was only long ago when my computer was crappy while trying to run 'high end' games of that era...

Maybe I don't notice any difference cause my computers have since then been overkill for what I (try to) run (or I simply would ignore too demanding games when my rig wasn't enough).

It's the same when you run games in windowed mode instead of fullscreen, for some you can still get a full 60 fps ofc, but for some more demanding games, you WILL notice the drop in framerate if your rig struggles.

it does hit average fps if you exceed 60 sometimes, but otherwise I am not really sure, it's actually quite possible it takes a bit of processing power

Doesn't catalyst center or whatever its called, has an option to disable/enable v-sync?

it doesn't override the game settings like nvidia does tho

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Posted

this should be true but i benchmarked a couple games with vsync on/off and some of their minimum fps was higher without vsync. most of the games weren't too noticeable though, but when i benchmarked payday2, the difference with vsync off was incredibly noticeable.

Yes it very much depends on the game/your machine but usually some improvement is noticeable. = ) 

@PeachyBear

390 user here, I played in RU for some time.
Had mostly 45-60 when nothing's happening but frames would often drop, mostly in towns or when going fast on horseback (sometimes even <15).
I'd be very pleased if frames were 50-60 and >30 in towns or large scale PvP. Also tried fiddling with the settings, didn't help much.

Should mention that a friend of mine who tried CBT 1 said his framerate was much better, I really hope that's the case.
Will try see for myself on CBT 2!

Were you playing in "fullscreen"? Because I noted my FPS getting cut in half when I played in "fullscreen" try changing it to "windowed" or "fullscreen boarderless" and see if that helps you and a side note make sure "High end mode" is off. = )

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Posted (edited)

Were you playing in "fullscreen"? Because I noted my FPS getting cut in half when I played in "fullscreen" try changing it to "windowed" or "fullscreen boarderless" and see if that helps you and a side note make sure "High end mode" is off. = )

Happened to me, my fps was also locked at 50 oddly (bdo probably kept defaulting to 50hz on my TV.) Strangely Full Screen Borderless (I lmost always run normal full screen) ran with better frames, full 60 except when it slowed down, without that annoying 50hz BS.

AMD Hardware Here

AMD R9 380

Intel i3 4170

8GB RAM

Edited by Enumeratingw7
added additional words

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Posted

Happened to me, my fps was also locked at 50 oddly (bdo probably kept defaulting to 50hz on my TV.) Strangely Full Screen Borderless (I lmost always run normal full screen) ran with better frames, full 60 except when it slowed down, without that annoying 50hz BS.

AMD Hardware Here

AMD R9 380

Intel i3 4170

8GB RAM

Fullscreen windowed (borderless) & classic windowed both use your Desktop Composition default Gamma & monitor refresh rate settings that's why.

We still don't know why the client sometimes hijacks the refresh rate and reduce it to 50 (or 30) ... It's another good reason to stay in borderless windowed yeah. Especially since the game will just switch to classic windowed all the time when you were in Fullscreen and you ALT TAB to check a forum or something.

So far it seems to mostly affect AMD users tho :/ 

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Posted

Fullscreen windowed (borderless) & classic windowed both use your Desktop Composition default Gamma & monitor refresh rate settings that's why.

We still don't know why the client sometimes hijacks the refresh rate and reduce it to 50 (or 30) ... It's another good reason to stay in borderless windowed yeah. Especially since the game will just switch to classic windowed all the time when you were in Fullscreen and you ALT TAB to check a forum or something.

So far it seems to mostly affect AMD users tho :/ 

Sums up my experience. Remember alt-tabbing and being like "why can't I go back fullscreen?"

Fortunately the performance differentiation between Borderless and Full Screen is minimal on most hardware setups using single GPUs (I think SLI/Cross gets funky). I'd rather full screen to be safe but whatever works.

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Posted

Were you playing in "fullscreen"? Because I noted my FPS getting cut in half when I played in "fullscreen" try changing it to "windowed" or "fullscreen boarderless" and see if that helps you and a side note make sure "High end mode" is off. = )

Borderless fullscreen. High end mode is a beta feature that only messes up your fps so I had it off.

are you using ultra high? what is your cpu? your ram? I doubt that it's the fault of the gpu, a 390 should be able to handle high settings, ultra high is for sli/crossfire setups

Tried with everything maxed (except high end) and low/medium with AA and improved distances off. Results were near identical. :/

i5 4670k @ 4.4GHz
2x4GB RAM @ 1600MHz

Really doubt there could be any bottlenecking here.
 

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Posted (edited)

Borderless fullscreen. High end mode is a beta feature that only messes up your fps so I had it off.

Tried with everything maxed (except high end) and low/medium with AA and improved distances off. Results were near identical. :/

i5 4670k @ 4.4GHz
2x4GB RAM @ 1600MHz

Really doubt there could be any bottlenecking here.
 

drivers up to date? you should be able to get the 60fps out of town

Edited by Koinzell

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Posted

drivers up to date? you should be able to get the 60fps out of town

Wouldn't be posting complaints if my drivers were outdated...

I am getting 60 fps outside of towns. The average fps isn't the problem, the minimum is. Frames drop very low very often, it gets very annoying.
 

Anyway, I'll wait to actually try our version to judge any further.

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Posted (edited)

Wouldn't be posting complaints if my drivers were outdated...

I am getting 60 fps outside of towns. The average fps isn't the problem, the minimum is. Frames drop very low very often, it gets very annoying.
 

Anyway, I'll wait to actually try our version to judge any further.

My hardware is a bit lower than yours and can't say I experienced that during CBT1. It might be the russian client but for safety you might want to actually have "GPU-Z" running to see the temps/stats of your gpu. While later drivers should have fixed the problem you never know (IIRC GPU fan does not turn on/ramp up resulting in excessive temperatures in an older version.) Here are a likely list of GPU-sided issues that can cause stuttering/crashing frames.

  1. GPU memory over-commitment (e.g. program requests 1.8GB of VRAM but your gpu only holds 2GB)
  2. Inconsistent GPU/MEM clocks. This is most often caused by insufficient power (requires you to enable overclocking) but may also be bad driver behavior.
  3. Excess GPU temperature. System throttles, reducing clock rates and/or voltage to cool the processor. Target temperature usually 80-95C but throttling usually begins after an increase of 10C from target temp IIRC.
  4. Buggy/poorly coded drivers. Driver behavior may be causing a number of pipeline stalls/serialization which might not be the fault of the driver but actually poor API coding (DX11 in this case.)

This is only for GPU-related incidence and is probably incomplete but using GPU-Z will help target the problem. With a 4.4GHz i5 I think you can actually benefit from faster ram but that isn't the issue.

Edited by Enumeratingw7
bad grammar, more clarification
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Posted

My hardware is a bit lower than yours and can't say I experienced that during CBT1. It might be the russian client but for safety you might want to actually have "GPU-Z" running to see the temps/stats of your gpu. While later drivers should have fixed the problem you never know (IIRC GPU fan does not turn on/ramp up resulting in excessive temperatures in an older version.) Here are a likely list of GPU-sided issues that can cause stuttering/crashing frames.

  1. GPU memory over-commitment (e.g. program requests 1.8GB of VRAM but your gpu only holds 2GB)
  2. Inconsistent GPU/MEM clocks. This is most often caused by insufficient power (requires you to enable overclocking) but may also be bad driver behavior.
  3. Excess GPU temperature. System throttles, reducing clock rates and/or voltage to cool the processor. Target temperature usually 80-95C but throttling usually begins after an increase of 10C from target temp IIRC.
  4. Buggy/poorly coded drivers. Driver behavior may be causing a number of pipeline stalls/serialization which might not be the fault of the driver but actually poor API coding (DX11 in this case.)

This is only for GPU-related incidence and is probably incomplete but using GPU-Z will help target the problem. With a 4.4GHz i5 I think you can actually benefit from faster ram but that isn't the issue.

Thanks for your reply!

Out of those 4, I think the last one is most likely to be the culprit. I use MSI Afterburner just to prevent 2 and 3 (and for some OC of course).
What did you mean by 1? 390 overkills it with 8GB VRAM so I'm not sure if it will ever be an issue.
 

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Posted

Thanks for your reply!

Out of those 4, I think the last one is most likely to be the culprit. I use MSI Afterburner just to prevent 2 and 3 (and for some OC of course).
What did you mean by 1? 390 overkills it with 8GB VRAM so I'm not sure if it will ever be an issue.
 

Memory leaks can be a case in the 1st one. There is also -not BDO specifically- games that (think it was COD BO3?) may eat into the 6-7 GB regions of VRAM. You probably don't need to worry about it but I put it there for anyone else as well.

Never used MSI afterburner and checked it as well, it'll work just as well as GPU-Z (if not better.) There isn't much you can do if it's #4. Presumably if you have increased your power limit then all I can say, and like you said, wait for the next CBT or release. I had no frame rate issues running lower hardware (generally smooth 60fps.)

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Posted

I had no frame rate issues running lower hardware (generally smooth 60fps.)

On which region did you play?

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Posted (edited)

On which region did you play?

CBT1 NA region. Can't remember the settings, I like to Mix'n Match but always set texture quality to the highest I guarantee you that.

Edited by Enumeratingw7
Woops!

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Posted

CBT1 NA region. Can't remember the settings, I like to Mix'n Match but always set texture quality to the highest I guarantee you that.

Hope I'll find me a key for CBT 2 to try things out :(

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