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Changes that should have made it to the West

24 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Greetings fellow players, i know that making this topic probably wont change anything but just for some peace of mind i had to post.
 Those are some changes that in MY OWN opinion should have been added/modified to the Western release.

1) Open world pvp

The way the PVP system is now its very hostile towards its own self, it doesn't promote PVP, in fact it discourages it. The only form of decent OWPvP are guild wars at this point, and while that's cool and all, it cant be the only form, it's such a waste of potential. In my opinion the flag system should have some work done to actually promote fighting. From the top of my head what i would like to see is when a non flaged player hits a flaged player he automatically becomes flagged him self, so the both (or many) could start pvp out of nowhere without any penalties. The karma decrease and punishments for death uppon lowered and negative karma should be reserved for PKs wich would be handed when a player kills another and that other player did not defend him self ressulting in a PK. The amount of karma lost upon PK could also increase to like x2 of what its now to discourage PK and promote pvp a bit more. I know this plan has an issue that can be exploited like a flaged player just staying inside an aoe range of another player to trigger a pvp flag, obviously there would be abuse of that system, an alternative or a "hotfix" for such issue could be something like, if a flagged player attacks you, you cannot fight back unless you flag your self, otherwise that player is marked as "going for the PK unless you defend your self via pvp". Or some shit like that anyway.  Imagine if you could actually start fighting another player and in a few minutes 20 players have joined the fight due to the flag system and the farming spot became a battleground.. Dunno about you but i orgasm in the idea of that kind of pvp involvement in other aspects of the game play.

2) Character Customization

I wont bother with the character creation, it's safe to say that it looked f***in awesome, and turned out a disappointment, but i can live with that. What's lacking is customization inside the game. There are like 10 armor sets and 7 of them are the same model with different color. UNACCEPTABLE. I know the business model makes its profits via item shop, and that costumes are the best seller, but people would still buy costume even if the armors inside the game wasn't a complete crap appearance wise. Agerian? blue rugs, Taritas? brown rugs, and so on. The item shop costume itself is lacking in variety but i guess that will change soon. Thing is, by forcibly taking away the option from players to make awesome looking characters without spending real money in the hopes that they will use pearl shop costume instead, you are making a mistake. It's true that some people will result in buying the item shop costume a bit faster if their char looks absolutely trashy, but the people that can afford buying cosmetic items would probably buy them anyway even if there were a few decent looking alternatives ingame. Remember, sex apeal is the most important stat in the game.

2,b) Dyes

Let me start off by saying that Black Desert has the best color variety in dyes out there. I've played almost every game there is to play and none that i know can even compare to the depth and variety of color and color variations that black desert has, for that, kudos. Too bad its unusable for people that cant spend a shitload of money on RNG boxes that for some reason love to drop brown color dyes more than anything else. It was a bad move to not include the Dye selling NPC in the game. F2P versions have it, we are the only ones that paid for the game and yet are being forced to the pearl shop more than any other version, shameful guys.. come on. I dont know what dyes the NPC vendor sold, but if i were you i would add only the Random RNG dye box to the vendor, and then sell specific colors in the pearl store. Black and White are the 2 dyes that 90% of the players want anyway, this would actually sell A LOT. Also the price for the RNG dye box inside the game could be a little steep so we have a gold sink along with it, and if lets say you wanted 5 black dyes for ur gear, pearl store would be a very viable alternative to spending a lot of gold. What i am saying is.. GIVE US THE OPTION! If somebody buys something from the item shop you didn't trick him into doing it because u removed something from the game, that person wanted to. Personally i've never bought anything of any item shop, do i want a costume? ----- YES, will i buy one? NO. Mostly because i feel i am being forced to do so that any other reason.

3) Hidden stats

Hidden stats everywhere, conspiracy theories everywhere, why my good people can't you add a few extra lines in the UI that say "Accuracy" "Damage to this kind of crap" and so on? It would be so much friendlier and easier to calculate and build our characters than conducting scientific experiments in order to see the actual difference from one build to another

4) Player trading

Now this is a weird one, I know the game "vision" tried and probably succeeded in adding more depth to the old boring NPCs that most mmos have by adding backstories and conversations to NPCs and also involving them in the trading process so much. PVE Heroes might even enjoying running around in the map transferring shit from one NPC to another, but then again i have a foot fetish so am not that much better off my self :P Thing is at the end of the day an NPC is just that, an NPC that 90% of us don't give a crap about and if he's lost his kids to goblins and whatnot, its just a model that's there to serve me by either selling/buying shit and give me quests. Trading between players should be a thing, not just for potions but for everything except silver coins, that way you keep the pre-build economy system that you guys created via the fixed prices on the Marketplace but players can trade with one another, help a friend, give something for free to a newbie, anything. Add some limitations in the amount of the frequency of the trade if you feel the need to, just allow it. Why can't i just give a Liverto i dropped to my guild mate that's been trying to snipe it of Marketplace? It feels very anti-social and instead of actually bringing people together to do shit, we got to a point where you can be solo since lvl 1 and never actually interact with another person and it doesn't even matter. Then whats the point of the MMO?

5) World Bosses

Now this isn't something that was gonna change just for the West, just thought i should mention it really quickly, mechanics guys... mechanics. Tank and Spank bosses are boring as hell. That is all.

6) Fast Travel

You probably have plans for this kind of feature in the future, as the map grows via expansions the traveling distances and times will also increase, its at a point that i could walk 20 minutes to reach a destination, and while this is fun and "realistic" after you do it a few times it gets rly time consuming and boring, we have grind for that. I just hope that if that kind of feature gets implemented in the future its not in the form of a cash shop item or a new VIP subscription type crap. Btw, saying that teleporting isn't realistic when our characters throw sparks flames and thunders out of their hands its a bit of a stretch. And just a thought, you could enable some sort of teleport or fast travel via connected nodes after a point of invested energy, that way you utilize a system that's already there and giving it more depth.. Anyway.. MOVING ON!

Summary

Great game base, strong foundation and amazing graphics, it's all there, it just needs some minor tweaks around some edges to really make this open seamless world come alive BY PLAYERS not running around npcs. Now it feels very repetitive and lacking in what is referred to as "end game content". It seems like the full potential of the game haven't even been reached. In my opinion not all, but 1-2 of those alterations or addition would greatly improve game experience especially for the PVP fanatic players and fashionistas. It's such a massive open world and yet it feels so limited and controlled by all those limitations.

 

PS: Those are my personal views and opinions about how things should be, doesn't mean i am right, doesn't mean i am wrong, i hope the people that dont like it come to take my head off by suggesting a bit more pvp and customization.. Thanks for reading.

Edited by Divider
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Posted

I read more PVP so i give you my like :P

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Posted (edited)

More PVP is coming with sieges, as for allowing gankers to have their way, no thanks, they're punished as they should be. Still plenty of PVP opportunity atm with GvG, arenas and crimson battleground.

Edited by Thaiden

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Posted

 

Dunno what the rules are on cross posting, but I have just watched a video where the CM says his favourite section of the forums is the suggestions board. Might be worth creating or adding some of these concepts there. Good post.

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Posted

More PVP is coming with sieges, as for allowing gankers to have their way, no thanks, they're punished as they should be. Still plenty of PVP opportunity atm with GvG, arenas and crimson battleground.

This is exactly what i am talking about. Why do people feel the need to PVP only if there is pvp specific content created by the company when they have the chance to pvp EVERYWHERE and ANYTIME they want? Its like you PVP there and there alone! But i want to fight on the road or if someone tries to KS me...:( NO! you pvp at siege or battleground! you naughty boy you! It's like if they remove battlegrounds and still leave people the ability to pvp nobody will do it and say no pvp content.

Please Thaiden, give some info what do you mean by Gankers?

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Posted

as for allowing gankers to have their way, no thanks, they're punished as they should be

Far from enough imo. Permadeath/account deletion would be more to my liking.

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its good without fast travel teleport. Thats why horses are there. Have you ever seen a T8 horse run? T9 horse are coming to korea. Thats your fast travel right there.

What speaks against fast travel teleport is guilds. Teleport isnt there so guilds cant just call members from one end of the map to the other instantly to help gank someone or to avoid zergfest guild war. Fast travel would make large guilds even stronger.

 

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Posted

Personally, I like not being able to fast travel. But I can see how it would bore someone to death. 

Far from enough imo. Permadeath/account deletion would be more to my liking.

That's absurd, the bounty system coming soon enough is the right solution. Being an asshole should have counters and not be encouraged, but being able to PK should remain part of this game. Why do you have such a strong view on that?

 

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Posted

Good ideas, nice to read something else in the mix. Thnx!

Go post at suggestions ^^

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its good without fast travel teleport. Thats why horses are there. Have you ever seen a T8 horse run? T9 horse are coming to korea. Thats your fast travel right there.

What speaks against fast travel teleport is guilds. Teleport isnt there so guilds cant just call members from one end of the map to the other instantly to help gank someone or to avoid zergfest guild war. Fast travel would make large guilds even stronger.

I dont know when T8 horses will come to our version but I kinda enjoy not having insta travel. There are so many truly beautiful MMOs out there yet feel totally empty apart from a few hubs because everyone is just popping from one place to another.

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Posted

So sightseeing? i get that, its a stunningly beautiful game. thank god there is Auto run to destination so i can 9gag while i get there :P

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So sightseeing? i get that, its a stunningly beautiful game. thank god there is Auto run to destination so i can 9gag while i get there :P

I auto ride and manage my workers, plan nodes, look at houses, browse data base, or just sit there and watch the scenery because it really is stunningly beautiful game. I am happy I can take my time and not rush anywhere at least in my game. And since I can play a lot but I have to go afk very often and at short notice it suits me fine as it is.

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Would be nice if they put back the dye vendor and allow the players the "Gift" option in the pearl shop. As i know the progress to remove the sellers is almost succesfull so its time to give back to us the option.  You wrote down almost everything what should be a great update for the game. Thanks for this thread :)

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I auto ride and manage my workers, plan nodes, look at houses, browse data base, or just sit there and watch the scenery because it really is stunningly beautiful game. I am happy I can take my time and not rush anywhere at least in my game. And since I can play a lot but I have to go afk very often and at short notice it suits me fine as it is.

I am all for that, i too have found that travel downtime beneficial to research or to some other things inside the game, maybe its because my horse is slower than my actual character the reason it tired me. Still, i can live with that! :D the pvp point is what i would like addressed most of all and the customization

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I agreed on the pvpbit, pvp is good bit im tired of the rare PKing people blowing up the problem. But making it to harsh would increase the rude pveer syndrome, i find pveers more often way more douchebaggy than pkers, deliberatly KSing you ruining your path and refusing groups and taunting you, and they are made of paper and die fast, but they instantly taunt you to aggrevate you, imo that is far worse than the PKing issue

character looks in form of armors, yes

after that i just read the titles and im not generally inclined in wanting to read.

Trading would ruin the game, its bot designed for it, you can not like it that is ok, but try to adapt to the new game experience and realize why its disabled, and understand why the building blocks and pillars of the game is built upon not having trade. Player to player AH is the only viable suggestion i have read.

fast travel, by now we are closing in on two months of the game, i already spend just between 5-10 minutes from omar cave to treant forest, i find this bery fast personally, one thing that would make me quit is if we would get teleports or flying mounts, game isnt built for it, would certainly not fit into the world, and all the forced immersion would go out the window.

 

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maybe its because my horse is slower than my actual character the reason it tired me

You should get a better horse. I have T6s with + horseshoes on alts I use when I want to go somewhere fast. Mostly I ride the wagon because I level 4 horses that way so riding around is what I normally do afk in autoloop anyway.

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This is exactly what i am talking about. Why do people feel the need to PVP only if there is pvp specific content created by the company when they have the chance to pvp EVERYWHERE and ANYTIME they want? Its like you PVP there and there alone! But i want to fight on the road or if someone tries to KS me...:( NO! you pvp at siege or battleground! you naughty boy you! It's like if they remove battlegrounds and still leave people the ability to pvp nobody will do it and say no pvp content.

Please Thaiden, give some info what do you mean by Gankers?

You can absolutely PVP where and when you want - but not at an unlimited rate, it's your responsibility to manage your karma. Frankly, if you're PVPing enough to wipe 300k positive karma then you're probably using it for something other than protecting a spot from KSers.

As for gankers and griefers, you know that some people use it as a mechanic just to ruin someone else's day - for example the idiots killing AFK fishers. The mechanic is there to allow you to PVP, without allowing you to wage a one-man war against the world for shits and giggles and at another's expense.

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I agreed on the pvpbit, pvp is good bit im tired of the rare PKing people blowing up the problem. But making it to harsh would increase the rude pveer syndrome, i find pveers more often way more douchebaggy than pkers, deliberatly KSing you ruining your path and refusing groups and taunting you, and they are made of paper and die fast, but they instantly taunt you to aggrevate you, imo that is far worse than the PKing issue

I still fail to see how those crappy PvE horrors manage to KS your mobs, do you just stand there "aggrevated" and let them? And wtf does it mean taunt you? Are you a mob with aggro table or something?

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Got my like.

What you have been asking for is what every pvp oriented forum user has been asking for since the forum existed.
The flagging system from Lineage2 where purple and red flags were a thing and consensual open world pvp was doable without losing karma aslong as both sides had attacked eachother. PA however said that the system was being abused and that people were letting others get killed by mobs so they didn't lose karma, something that can still happen in our current version and is an absolutely ridiculous pretext.

Don't think you can expect any free armor sets that don't look like potatoe sacks any time soon, when it comes to Daum's marketing plan they are pretty much unshaken, the same goes for dyes.

Trading would be nice be unfortunately it would ruin and kill the game if gold sellers could abuse it.

If anything I'd say that the current karma penalty doesn't discourage PvP, PK'ing is a form of PvP since you as a player are attacking another player. We can go on and on about where and what this term is but if anything I think the current karma penalty is killing social encounters. Whenever a person sees another person farming in his spot he is way more likely to kill them than to ask if he wants to group up, this to me is kind of a shame since player interaction doesn't always have to be negative.

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Never implement fast travel. I like having a horse I can actually use.

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Posted (edited)

(2,b) is my favorite paragraph.  I think what you're suggesting with dyes would work really well, and also help in creating more diversity in the armor we do have if access to dyes actually existed within the game.

PvP, meh.  I think there's incoming content that will do a lot to give PvP the purpose and substance it should have.  I also think this missing content is what's making some people feel like endgame is missing.  It literally actually is missing.

Fast travel, I can see the appeal.  I remember when they introduced it in SWG though, as Kat pointed out, it removes a lot of the ambient activity and winds up making games look more desolate.  It also has a way of making the map look and feel much smaller than it really is.  Kinda think this may also have an effect on future PvP content too.  Part of the logistics in war is placing your troops where they should be, having the resources moved to them, etc.  Could be worked into the system you're suggesting depending on who owns the node but that would have a big effect in making your strategy obvious to your opponent... kind of like what happens in Planetside 2 in a way.  I'd also bring up Eve as an example of a game that gives you a relatively safe AFK travel, and would be adversely affected by instant travel.

Good post though, keep that thinking cap handy, seems to be working!

Edited by TheRedOne
must... sleep...

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Posted (edited)

Thank you all for your replies, i'd like to offer up some extra info because many people didn't bother to read besides the title.

About the trading: Dont allow to trade silver, only items and that with a certain restrictions, like 1 trade per day or only within guild or have a person in your friendlist for over a week before you are able to trade. There are workarounds. Gold sellers are still useless. I doubt they start selling items "Get your unlimited supply of Grunil armors! 50 armors only 100$"

Seems like most of the people like the way traveling works now, that's totally fine, i am not that much against it, maybe if i had a better horse OR if we could designate a town as home town and had a return skill with like 1 hour cooldown, that would help too :P.

 

The most debatable subject is the pvp reform. It's true that there are assholes that get a kick out of ruining another players days, they are called humans and they are lurking in every corner and they are easily avoided. What i am suggesting actually HELPS PVE Heroes. If you DO NOT willingly participate in the flagging process to engage in pvp combat and die, the other player receives negative karma, which leads to him dropping his ass off if he dies,this is exactly the same as it is now in regards of PK. In matter of fact you could even use that with 2-3 hidden friends to benefit from the drops. All i am begging for is the Lineage 2 PvP system pretty much. Flag Vs Flag = PVP    ~   Flag VS No reaction = PK   Flag is triggered by hitting a flagged player ON PURPOSE not via random AOE. But you cant expect someone to hit you, you hit back and then die and the other player gets karma, you fought back, you could defend your self. And before people say lvl 55s attacking lvl 45s. You cannot hit players below or over -1+1 or -2+2 levels of your own, problem solved.

 

Edited by Divider

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Thank you all for your replies, i'd like to offer up some extra info because many people didn't bother to read besides the title.

About the trading: Dont allow to trade silver, only items and that with a certain restrictions, like 1 trade per day or only within guild or have a person in your friendlist for over a week before you are able to trade. There are workarounds. Gold sellers are still useless. I doubt they start selling items "Get your unlimited supply of Grunil armors! 50 armors only 100$"

Seems like most of the people like the way traveling works now, that's totally fine, i am not that much against it, maybe if i had a better horse OR if we could designate a town as home town and had a return skill with like 1 hour cooldown, that would help too :P.

 

The most debatable subject is the pvp reform. It's true that there are assholes that get a kick out of ruining another players days, they are called humans and they are lurking in every corner and they are easily avoided. What i am suggesting actually HELPS PVE Heroes. If you DO NOT willingly participate in the flagging process to engage in pvp combat and die, the other player receives negative karma, which leads to him dropping his ass off if he dies,this is exactly the same as it is now in regards of PK. In matter of fact you could even use that with 2-3 hidden friends to benefit from the drops. All i am begging for is the Lineage 2 PvP system pretty much. Flag Vs Flag = PVP    ~   Flag VS No reaction = PK   Flag is triggered by hitting a flagged player ON PURPOSE not via random AOE. But you cant expect someone to hit you, you hit back and then die and the other player gets karma, you fought back, you could defend your self. And before people say lvl 55s attacking lvl 45s. You cannot hit players below or over -1+1 or -2+2 levels of your own, problem solved.

 

I think if I recall correctly WAR online had a mechanic whereby killing a lowbie wasn't possible. It did discourage gankers, but in this game, I'm not sure that 2 levels would be sufficient (imagine a 55 not being able to PvP against a 52, there'd be uproar at contested grinding spots).

I think gankers are scummy and would prefer a bounty system - a well implemented bounty system along with a system of flagging. The worst offenders kill people who are AFK tradeskilling or autopathing - killing a player who cannot fight back should result in a flag to your character so that PKKers can avenge you, plus a bounty system that rewards it.

It would be difficult to keep both sides happy, but it's gankers that ruin things for everyone in PvP games, so that's what I care most about a system punishing.

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To encourage open world PVP I think guild officers should have an option to "purchase" a node, that for a certain fee from guild funds actives better loot/better xp and anyone killed within the confines of that node loses no karma. Any guild would gain guild xp for killing members of the owning guild at the node, and members of the owning guild would gain guild xp for killing enemies at the node. Once purchased a node would remain guild property for a set period of time, say 2 hours and could only be lost if the duration expires or another guild purchases the node for an increased price which would automatically start a guild war. I know this is how fundamentally the node war system is supposed to work, but a simplified version of the system could easily be implemented and help to encourage a more active PVP population. Karma loss simply makes PVP as its currently implemented unfun.

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