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This game was never really designed with PVP in mind.


62 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I've been playing for a little while, and I have yet to do any real PVP in game.

There are so much other content outside of PVPing, and at level 52, while just farming for items and not actively grinding for levels, I've run into 2 people that have killed me. (1 of them declared war on our guild and tried killing again but I just ran off)

I know 52 is pretty low to be saying this but when I look at the amount of content that's been provided to us, it seems like the game is 95% PVE/profession/alcoholic-slave-ownership, and 5% PVP stuff, and that's probably even too high!  

Sure, there's open world PVP but it's pretty easily avoidable since people are disincentivised to PK (little bit), and there's only 1 battlefield.  I know sieges and node wars are coming but that adds very little unless you're actively participating with an active guild.

To support this claim even further, the game isn't necessarily designed for pure competition.  Games designed for player-vs-player try to provide the users with an even playing-field where the player with the highest skill can come on top.  You see this in fighting games and MOBAs where the developers designate a huge chunk of their time trying to balance the game so that player/team skills ultimately determine the outcome.

  • This game has hidden stats to try and keep users from min-maxing.
  • This game has random HP/stat gain (albeit not huge) so no two players with same gear are exactly on an even playing field.
  • The gear/class is the biggest deciding factor in any form of PVP.
  • Balancing the classes are an after-thought to the developers, and there's still no sign of any form of balance in Kr-BDO.

So, I don't think when the lead designers were building this game, they were thinking about PVP a lot.  I think they created a beautiful world where people can do a ton of different activities, and they turned on PVP to add a little spice to these activities.

TL;DR: Evidence suggests this game was never really designed with PVP in mind.

EDIT: People are having a knee-jerk reaction to my post without reading.  This isn't a complaint.  This post is trying to point out that the game is not centered around PVP.

Edited by davidjung03
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Posted

Well, beside the class gameplay that would perfectly fit a skill based game ( so pvp ) its clear that there so game design that totaly waste that.

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Posted

People need to stop getting the impression that PvP must be an even playing field in every aspect. Additionally, this game was designed for large scale open world PvP, not instanced duels between players. To say that the game isn't designed with PvP in mind is disingenuous.

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Posted (edited)

This again. This game is perfect for PvP, but not fully implemented. Seriously, take a chill pill and wait for it, lol. The best part, you resolved your own disgruntledness within your complaint. 

Edited by Zibbernopperrroo

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Posted

This again. This game is perfect for PvP, but not fully implemented. Seriously, take a chill pill and wait for it, lol. 

Perfect for PVP?  Can you explain how this game, in the future where it is fully implemented (so even way past the current Kr-BDO), is perfect for PVP?  What's your perfect vision for a PVP MMO?

People need to stop getting the impression that PvP must be an even playing field in every aspect. Additionally, this game was designed for large scale open world PvP, not instanced duels between players. To say that the game isn't designed with PvP in mind is disingenuous.

OK, that's fine.  Our opinions are not mutually exclusive.  I'm not complaining to try and change the PVP to something it's not at the moment.  I'm just trying to explain that the amount of content that we have and that we WILL have for PVP is very miniscule compared to everything else.

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Posted

One post in the forum discusses this. A city for pkers to safely visit, wars for nodes will be open for combat, control of major towns, and plenty of more things as well as things we do not know. I am also glad that you have to consider the repercussions of killing someone instead of just all out murder spree. Factions would be better than karma, and one for each town, but it is definitely better than what you seem to be asking. Not everyone has your gear and can contest. We do not need this: 

image.jpeg

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Posted

One post in the forum discusses this. A city for pkers to safely visit, wars for nodes will be open for combat, control of major towns, and plenty of more things as well as things we do not know. I am also glad that you have to consider the repercussions of killing someone instead of just all out murder spree. Factions would be better than karma, and one for each town, but it is definitely better than what you seem to be asking. Not everyone has your gear and can contest. We do not need this: 

image.jpeg

Sorry, but what am I asking?  Did you actually read my original post?  I'm perfectly happy with the game just doing PVE stuff while doing occasional PVP stuff, but there's a general consensus that this game's for PVPers, which I think is wrong.

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Posted

Sorry, but what am I asking?  Did you actually read my original post?  I'm perfectly happy with the game just doing PVE stuff while doing occasional PVP stuff, but there's a general consensus that this game's for PVPers, which I think is wrong.

I did, and that is the impression I am getting. In a way, this game is still beta fashion, when it comes to PvP. I imagine that you meant something different than what I perceived. Perhaps you can elaborate?

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Posted (edited)

Perfect for PVP?  Can you explain how this game, in the future where it is fully implemented (so even way past the current Kr-BDO), is perfect for PVP?  What's your perfect vision for a PVP MMO?

OK, that's fine.  Our opinions are not mutually exclusive.  I'm not complaining to try and change the PVP to something it's not at the moment.  I'm just trying to explain that the amount of content that we have and that we WILL have for PVP is very miniscule compared to everything else.

As a person who played the CBT in Korea, I can clearly say, that you are partially wrong. This game was focused on the PvP. Then was ruined. And now is focused on the solo grind. You may call it PvE, but it is a singleplayer grind in candy eye environment. If you are completely asocial person, you may like the game as it is. But seriously, if they make it offline, nothing will change in the so called PvE part. And you are right, in EU/NA, the PvP part actually does not exist. And lvl 52 is more than enough. You saw everything in this game already. It is a flow in the marketing I think. The initial design was completely different, Then someone in Daum said: Let make the game more friendly to the casual players - that means easier mobs, less group content, safe zones. They even made 60% of the map a safe zone in Korea for a while. And - this is serious, they said they want BDO to be easy like a mobile game. The result of these experiments - from 1,5 millions of subscribers in the first 3 months after the release, less than 100 000 people play the game in Korea now. And Daum lost money from BDO in the first year after the release in Korea. I did not see the last reports, probably they made some net revenue after the release in EU/NA. Anyway the game failed in Korea cause of changes, made to improve the sales from the cash shop. In EU/NA, the fact we have almost zero group content - no sieges, no node wars, even no races and raids for whales, shows the marketing did not change. 

Edited by Ikcen
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Posted

As a person who played the CBT in Korea, I can clearly say, that you are partially wrong. This game was focused on the PvP. Then was ruined. And now is focused on the solo grind. You may call it PvE, but it is a singleplayer grind in candy eye environment. If you are completely asocial person, you may like the game as it is. But seriously, if they make it offline, nothing will change in the so called PvE part. And you are right, in EU/NA, the PvP part actually does not exist. And lvl 52 is more than enough. You saw everything in this game already. It is a flow in the marketing I think. The initial design was completely different, Then someone in Daum said: Let make the game more friendly to the casual players - that means easier mobs, less group content, save zones. They even made 60% of the map a save zone in Korea for a while. And - this is serious, they said they want BDO to be easy like a mobile game. The result of these experiments - from 1,5 millions of subscribers in the first 3 months after the release, less than 100 000 people play the game in Korea now. And Daum lost money from BDO in the first year after the release in Korea. I did not see the last reports, probably they made some net revenue after the release in EU/NA. Anyway the game failed in Korea cause of changes, made to improve the sales from the cash shop. In EU/NA, the fact we have almost zero group content - no sieges, no node wars, even no races and raids for whales, shows the marketing did not change. 

perhaps I am niave, but I am expecting a lot of that to come. It would not be sensible to refrain from what is marketable. The guild wars and node wars will add a lot, but I am expecting more group content in the upcoming as well. It took EQ quite a bit to pan out the group stuff, though they did release it day 1. This in its current state, is still better than 90% of MMO's on the market currently (statistic grabbed from rough guess). But as I said, possibly niave, I am expecting more to come.

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Posted

Everything OP said excludes Node wars/sieges which is the main core of the game at end game

Oh but please if you have any sources to make your claim, feel free to link us up, otherwise these are just assumptions with lack of knowledge 

(the game has been out for about 2 years ya know)

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Posted (edited)

  • PvE vs PvP
    • Black Desert was made with both PvE and PvP in mind and the game requires that both exists in unison for the game to work.  One is not preferred over the other.  I actually posted this previously but since then the thread has been removed otherwise I would gladly link it.
  • PvP at LvL 45
  • Player to Player Trade
    • Trade is working as the Developers intended and this choice was supported by many threads & polls from the community.
  • World Boss Loot
    • Over the last few patch notes you should notice that Field Bosses are constantly being adjusted, this is in response to Community Feedback and you can expect additional changes while we work to find a proper balance.
  • Single Player MMO
    • Based on Community Feedback changes have been made to promote Group Play such as the new party loot system "Special Deals" as well as the changes to the Group EXP Bonuses and the range at which group members receive said bonus.  We are continuing to look for fun ways to promote group play and as they confirmed announcements will be made.
  • Support Tickets

Above you will find answers to some of the question posed and I will share the feedback from this thread with the rest of the Team to make sure they are aware. 

Edited by Dartendal
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Posted

...but there's a general consensus that this game's for PVPers, ....

I don't know, how long you are reading through this forum - but: No, there is not.

There is permanent discussion, but there is no general consensus.

There are factions with stonecold evidence each, that their approach on BDO is what the developers had in mind, but there is no consensus.

Far from that. You may relax now, it's, shortly spoken, same like in all MMOs.

 

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Posted

Ugh.

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Posted

If it was PvP-centric, it would have a standarized stat mode like Dungeon Fighter or Blade and Soul. People who say this game is all about PvP probably refer to large scale GvG but 1v1s are a joke from what I've seen since Gear > Class > Skill in that order determine who the winner is.

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Posted

If it was PvP-centric, it would have a standarized stat mode like Dungeon Fighter or Blade and Soul. People who say this game is all about PvP probably refer to large scale GvG but 1v1s are a joke from what I've seen since Gear > Class > Skill in that order determine who the winner is.

You could say the same about EVE - better ships blow up not so good ships. I suspect that the PVP is designed with a similar notion in mind so that it is fun for larger fights where a mix of levels makes it interesting? Also encourages group play?

There are arenas for evenly geared 1v1 of the same class and then I guess skill would win out.

 

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Posted

Actually this game was always PvP based, until the plague of casuals rolled in with their 'plz don't hurt my waifu'

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Posted (edited)

Actually this game was always PvP based, until the plague of casuals rolled in with their 'plz don't hurt my waifu'

Well that is an incorrect statement. Nothing has been changed since launch.

Edited by Tillerzz

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Posted

This is kind of like an argument over if this game was designed to be played as a warrior or a sorceress.  Silly argument it was designed for both.

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Posted

pvp starts at 55. come back when you get there. you're still a lowbie noob. 55 is the softcap.

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Posted

Well that is an incorrect statement. Nothing has been changed since launch.

Don't say I'm incorrect when this game has gone through a lot of changes. Try read up on the history instead of pulling opinions out your ass.

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Posted

This is kind of like an argument over if this game was designed to be played as a warrior or a sorceress.  Silly argument it was designed for both.

Well done on your reading comprehension skills.  You've done an outstanding job on grasping the intention of the original post!

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Posted (edited)

It's interesting how both sides try to take ownership all because of some gankers who want unwilling victims to sim-murder... PvP'ers feel attacked because PK'ers self identify as PvP and the act is tenuously related to PvP (despite the fact that most Gankers are scrubs and run from real PvP) stop doing that. PvP is about fighting other players who want to fight you... not ruining some crafters fun.

As in other games: eliminate the toxic griefer (PK) and PvP and PvE suddenly coexist quite nicely... You eliminate the griefer by allowing everyone to choose PvP or not. It's that simple. The PK kiddies melt away and your community can argue about normal stuff instead of "it's a PvP game no it's a PvE game".

I love good PvP, it would never occur to me to ruin some crafters gameplay for a easy kill, I would lose self respect and feel creepy and embarrassed... I would feel like a tool.

The crazy irony here is that in most version of this game there is no forced PvP and PK'ing can only be done to people who have accepted the risk by completing the quest! Only the NA version gets it wrong, and arguably NA is the WORST possible market to get this wrong in, as PvE is massively more popular here than PvP.

Edited by Ironclan
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Posted

Well done on your reading comprehension skills.  You've done an outstanding job on grasping the intention of the original post!

You've done a great job ignoring the quote of a CM who proves your original post wrong. You're also unaware of the future of this game that will arrive soon.

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Posted (edited)

I played Aion for 7 years. I am sure if you played Aion and came back to BDO, then you will understand that BDO is a nice relief compared to Aion. BDO is basically Dragon Age or Skyrim RPG element applied with MMO aspect. The only thing I do not like about BDO is how gear dependent it is versus skill base.

Edited by Dnangel
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