• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

Cash shop only for skill resets?!?

94 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Before people chime in without thinking, yes I know you get ONE free reset at 45. I also know that you can reset ONE skill at a time using loyalty. What people parroting this rhetoric don't stop to realize is that it would take you over a year of loyalty for a full skill reset, and getting one free at 45 does nothing to solve problem.

 

Every successful MMO I have played from WoW to ESO to GW2 to Rift to Sony's games and so on all realized the importance of allowing skill resets for in-game currency.

 

  • It encourages people to play and learn the class for themselves instead of copying one "cookie cutter" build from an internet guide.
  • It gives people a sense of freedom to experiment and learn how skills feel, how they look, and how they work in different combat situations.
  • It adds to the longevity of the game by creating a sense of adaptability and creative control.

 

All of the games I previously listed manage to "keep the servers running" by selling costumes, mounts, XP and other convenience items, and don't have to resort to such manipulative tactics as RNG horse skill slot machines preying on gambling addicts or locking essential features like skill resets behind a pay wall.

 

It's like a B2P game with a F2P cash shop. I honestly couldn't believe when I discovered this. It is truly a bridge too far in my book.

 

By locking this essential feature behind a pay wall, Daum is essentially gimping the longevity of their game, guaranteeing cookie cutter builds, destroying the sense of freedom and individual play style exploration, and creating a sense of hostility and resentment in their player base as this combined with so many other predatory cash shop systems in a B2P game people already had to pay for smacks of nothing less than going full greed.

 

Furthermore, this sets up a perfect scam where under the pretense of "balance" Daum could later nerf or change certain FoTM skills and basically REQUIRE people to pay real money just to remain competitive.

 

The number of people defending such practices on Reddit tells me that gamers have become so jaded that they are actually begging companies to take advantage of them. "Take my money, please." It is honestly almost beyond belief this sort of thing is tolerated. I for one won't be spending another dime on this title and doubt I will stick around for more than another month unless there are some serious changes.

 

I guess I am disappointed more than anything. I really wanted this one to last a while. But Daum are far from newbies. They should know better.

Edited by Phinix
34 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

stop being bad and learn your class. you shouldn't need to do full skill reset everytime. partial is more than enough also.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Before people chime in without thinking, yes I know you get ONE free reset at 45. I also know that you can reset ONE skill at a time using loyalty. What people parroting this rhetoric don't stop to realize is that it would take you over a year of loyalty for a full skill reset, and getting one free at 45 does nothing to solve problem.

 

Every successful MMO I have played from WoW to ESO to GW2 to Rift to Sony's games and so on all realized the importance of allowing skill resets for in-game currency.

 

  • It encourages people to play and learn the class for themselves instead of copying one "cookie cutter" build from an internet guide.
  • It gives people a sense of freedom to experiment and learn how skills feel, how they look, and how they work in different combat situations.
  • It adds to the longevity of the game by creating a sense of adaptability and creative control.

 

All of the games I previously listed manage to "keep the servers running" by selling costumes, mounts, XP and other convenience items, and don't have to resort to such manipulative tactics as RNG horse skill slot machines preying on gambling addicts or locking essential features like skill resets behind a pay wall.

 

It's like a B2P game with a F2P cash shop. I honestly couldn't believe when I discovered this. It is truly a bridge too far in my book.

 

By locking this essential feature behind a pay wall, Daum is essentially gimping the longevity of their game, guaranteeing cookie cutter builds, destroying the sense of freedom and individual play style exploration, and creating a sense of hostility and resentment in their player base as this combined with so many other predatory cash shop systems in a B2P game people already had to pay for smacks of nothing less than going full greed.

 

Furthermore, this sets up a perfect scam where under the pretense of "balance" Daum could later nerf or change certain FoTM skills and basically REQUIRE people to pay real money just to remain competitive.

 

The number of people defending such practices on Reddit tells me that gamers have become so jaded that they are actually begging companies to take advantage of them. "Take my money, please." It is honestly almost beyond belief this sort of thing is tolerated. I for one won't be spending another dime on this title and doubt I will stick around for more than another month unless there are some serious changes.

 

I guess I am disappointed more than anything. I really wanted this one to last a while. But Daum are far from newbies. They should know better.

I agree with you.

stop being bad and learn your class. you shouldn't need to do full skill reset everytime. partial is more than enough also.

Get a life.

9 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

stop being bad and learn your class. you shouldn't need to do full skill reset everytime. partial is more than enough also.

It is difficult to take you seriously when you open your response with an insult and address none of the key points.

Being able to change your skills isn't just about "getting gud." The freedom to adapt creates an atmosphere of agency and creative control that inspires longevity. It encourages people to explore a class for themselves instead of copying a cookie cutter build that's "gud" and racing to level cap.

That play style encourages burnout and is bad for the game in the long term.

Edited by Phinix
4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

It is difficult to take you seriously when you open your response with an insult and address none of the key points.

Being able to change your skills isn't just about "getting gud." The freedom to adapt creates an atmosphere or agency and creative control that inspires longevity. It encourages people to explore a class for themselves instead of copying a cookie cutter build that's "gud" and racing to level cap.

That play style encourages burnout and is bad for the game in the long term.

the skill descriptions not only tells you exactly what it does but also shows video of that in action which most other games doesn't. if that's not enough there's plenty of guides tested from players that gives you the build. in the end everyone follows the same cookie butter build. this is not like blade n soul needing to change your skills everytime depending on enemy player. you use the same skills just more tactically only. and if you reach the skill points cap, you can get all the skill (maybe not full passive but all actual skills yes). so go back to grinding instead of writing crappy long complaining posts here or don't be a pleb and buy the skill reset from cash shop if you must.

Edited by clangpicky

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

the skill descriptions not only tells you exactly what it does but also shows video of that in action which most other games doesn't. if that's not enough there's plenty of guides tested from players that gives you the build. in the end everyone follows the same cookie butter build. this is not like blade n soul needing to change your skills everytime depending on enemy player. you use the same skills just more tactically only. and if you reach the skill points cap, you can get all the skill (maybe not full passive but all actual skills yes). so go back to grinding instead of writing crappy long complaining posts here.

Now it's beyond obvious that you're bad yourself. If you weren't, you'd know the skill descriptions in this game are far from adequate gauges of their usefulness, and never indicate when a skill will severely hamper the use of other skills with similar key combinations. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

You haven't played a game from the golden age of MMORPGs. Those games didn't even have the concept of a skill reset... you are what you played, and too bad if you didn't like it.

That should be here too, but if you're desperate, they gave you a way out. In other words, it's not even close to "an essential feature." :)

 

Edited by Lethality
3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Now it's beyond obvious that you're bad yourself. If you weren't, you'd know the skill descriptions in this game are far from adequate gauges of their usefulness, and never indicate when a skill will severely hamper the use of other skills with similar key combinations. 

why bother talking to you. as I also said, you get every skill is when you reach the skill points cap (not full passive buff ones but actual skills).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

As much as you are constantly making posts -----ing I agree.

Skill resets should NOT be behind a pay wall.... It is terrible design. I get that a company has to make money but they should not use every little thing to attempt to squeeze money out of the player. 

I would happily pay a monthly sub to remove this kind of crapp.

I've wanted to try different skills for fun. But i'm not going to pay 10 damn euros for a reset...

Edited by Jack Sparrow
6 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

the skill descriptions not only tells you exactly what it does but also shows video of that in action which most other games doesn't. if that's not enough there's plenty of guides tested from players that gives you the build. in the end everyone follows the same cookie butter build. this is not like blade n soul needing to change your skills everytime depending on enemy player. you use the same skills just more tactically only. and if you reach the skill points cap, you can get all the skill (maybe not full passive but all actual skills yes). so go back to grinding instead of writing crappy long complaining posts here or don't be a pleb and buy the skill reset from cash shop if you must.

That makes you look terrible. Even in AA we could reset our skills for ingame currency.

Whiteknight confirmed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Agreed, this is monopoly capitalism at its finest. The players have 2 choices: either pay for the service or simply go without. Yet the service inherently exploits a facet of gaming that is tied to the core mechanics of experiencing the game: combat. Of which skills do exist that are bugged, broken, or simply too weak to progress the player in a manner that is enjoyable or equitable to the “Skinner box:” in were a rodent would press a button that caused pain, another to provide water and food, and another that stimulated pleasure (yet this stimulus was so powerful that it overrode Maslow’s basic needs).

The same with this cash shop design: a player avoids displeasure by paying for a reward or simply goes without. Exploiting pleasure versus displeasure at the expense of income instead of a service provided through want and not necessity. Clearly what skills are better than others can be subjective, but others are simply objectively more powerful: i.e. do more or less damage; thus creating an imbalance or disparity that forces the player to pay for their ignorance due to the lack of availability to test before investing in the form of a monetary requirement, or quite a lengthy amount of time to reset such trial and error.

Sadly the ambiguity of stats  (accuracy, evasion, DP, and AP) and skills place the player between a rock and a hard place, as they can't reliably test what does what, what is factoring what, and account for controlled and random outcomes. The skill system is designed in an opaque manner that leaves the player guessing too much, or requires a degree of mathematical understanding and scientific testing to account for unknown variables. Without parsing for hours we simply don't know off hand what 1 AP does, what 1 DP does, how 15% of WP is affecting a skill, or how much damage is being reduced in PVP, yet requires that skills and stats work as intended.

The above is either deliberate, so as to suggest an easy out via monetization, or a huge oversight. I'll assume by design this is a deliberate mechanic to exploit players and their want to optimize.

 

Edited by Artigan
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

That makes you look terrible. Even in AA we could reset our skills for ingame currency.

Whiteknight confirmed.

AA had like 120 possible classes to customize so obviously it'd be free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

AA had like 120 possible classes to customize so obviously it'd be free.

Great opportunity for monetization, aye? Yet even Trino knew better than to take skill resets out of the game and make them a fukken shop feature. Go away.

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Great opportunity for monetization, aye? Yet even Trino knew better than to take skill resets out of the game and make them a fukken shop feature. Go away.

they had other plans of monetization. you seen it. you know the monetize that made almost everyone quit the game? get outta here

Edited by clangpicky

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

AA had like 120 possible classes to customize so obviously it'd be free.

Dude please you are the epitome of a white knight bouncing up and down on Daums sack. Just stop.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Coming from GW2 and BnS, I was very disappointed that there was no in-game skill resets. What was one of the first things I did? I looked up several builds and tried to draw a conclusion... When did I do that? Well, after creating a ranger and levelling skills that don't matter in end-game and basically gimping my character's future in PvPing I had to remake the ranger after reaching 43. I didn't want to use the skill reset because that is a one-time account-wide item.

Also, it's completely true that Daum (or Pearl Abyss) can easily change a skill or two "in the name of balance", basically forcing a lot of people to spend money to stay competitive.

Just releasing more outfits would increase their cash shop income... If they can't make skill resets "free", then I'd be happy if the loyalty price was lowered from 400 to 100 for a partial reset...

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

So many restrictions in a so called sandbox MMO....

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

while I agree there should be ways to get skill resets, rarely do you need a full skill reset. Now if hey don't give full skill resets per character for awakenings, then we have a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I give kudos to the people who make their chars right the first time in a new game, I am not one of them. I tend to mess mine up pretty badly. Skill resets are just one of the many things they use to force us to the cash shop. I wont fall for it. Ill be done with this game sooner than Id normally be done with a game  due to this issue. I need cool looking gear, skill resets, tons of inventory, and all kinds of things in a game to play it long term. I refuse to spend cash on these things that I can get for free simply by moving to another game. I agree with the OP whole heartedly....M

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

the skill descriptions not only tells you exactly what it does but also shows video of that in action which most other games doesn't. if that's not enough there's plenty of guides tested from players that gives you the build. in the end everyone follows the same cookie butter build. this is not like blade n soul needing to change your skills everytime depending on enemy player. you use the same skills just more tactically only. and if you reach the skill points cap, you can get all the skill (maybe not full passive but all actual skills yes). so go back to grinding instead of writing crappy long complaining posts here or don't be a pleb and buy the skill reset from cash shop if you must.

and then the main spells get nerfed or there is a rework/tweak and you're -----ed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

We need more money, lets rebalance skills.

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It's sad to say but this is by far the worst monetized mmo I've ever played. And this is the one where they vouched never to make it p2w.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

and then the main spells get nerfed or there is a rework/tweak and you're -----ed.

then you have two choice. continue using the nerfed version or reroll your class. do you think if rangers shotgun got nerfed, they're gonna stop using the skill? or if wizard's meteor and blizzard were nerfed, just stop using those skills? no. you just deal with the changes or if its too much for you to handle, reroll class. if there is a skill completely reworked/tweaked, you riot at Daum for free skill reset.

Edited by clangpicky

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Coming from GW2 and BnS, I was very disappointed that there was no in-game skill resets. What was one of the first things I did? I looked up several builds and tried to draw a conclusion... When did I do that? Well, after creating a ranger and levelling skills that don't matter in end-game and basically gimping my character's future in PvPing I had to remake the ranger after reaching 43. I didn't want to use the skill reset because that is a one-time account-wide item.

Also, it's completely true that Daum (or Pearl Abyss) can easily change a skill or two "in the name of balance", basically forcing a lot of people to spend money to stay competitive.

Just releasing more outfits would increase their cash shop income... If they can't make skill resets "free", then I'd be happy if the loyalty price was lowered from 400 to 100 for a partial reset...

That's another bit of predatory chicanery. "Free skill reset at 45" (fine print: that you only get to use once for the entire account).

So, you get one freebie reset on ONE character. Want to play another class and do some experimentation? Now it will cost you.

Sounds like pusher tactics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

The loyalties shop reset is good enough, unless you fk up really bad then you just suck and should suffer

Edited by Ahki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites