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Cash shop only for skill resets?!?

94 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

reset seemed important before i hit 45, even when i hit 45, but getting level 52ish, it seems fairly uneccassary, the difference between this game and others is that you have no limit on the amount of skill points you can get, so, if you keep playing you will naturally get most the skills you want

I have been playing more as well and I have found that while this theory works on paper, it isn't the way things work in the actual game.

First off, most classes have completely different skills for specializing in PVP or PVE. Tamer for instance, has radically different skills for PVE and AOE and for PVP stuns and grapples. To be efficient at both specs (which is required since the game forces you into PVP whether you want it or not and there is no end game besides PVP) requires more points than you have at any level by a considerable margin. This has been true at every ten level increment from 20 to 50.

Furthermore, you must PVE to grind for PVP. So you need PVE efficiency to do that grinding of skill points you talk of. HOWEVER, the game forces you into PVP at 45 and, since there is no end-game whatsoever, that is basically the whole point why you are grinding.

Since the skills needed for PVE efficiency required to grind the skill points for PVP efficiency must be invested BEFORE you can grind those points, you will naturally end up with a bunch of "useless" PVE skills by the time (and it is a LONG time) you finally grind out the points for PVP.

This requires a reset.

Even worse, no one wants to mindlessly repeat the same task until burnout. So, you will want to change up your skills from PVE to PVP in order to avoid that. However again, this requires paying real money every time you want to change your play style. Imaging if you were a warrior in WoW and wanted to swap from raiding as a tank to PVP even just once a week. Imaging having to pay $10 every single time.

DAUM has systematically engineered this game to be an extortionist cash grab that punishes customers for diversifying their play style. It sends a clear message: Want to avoid burnout? GIVE US MORE MONEY! Then in the end you burn out anyway because there is no real end game besides limited, repetitive, and unbalanced PVP.

DAUM, Pearl Abyss, you need to offer in-game skill resets for silver or your game will fail.

This is not a threat, it is a fact based on simple psychology.

Also, fire your evil mad scientist marketing psychologists that told you no one would notice these shenanigans.

Edited by Phinix

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Posted

 

DAUM, Pearl Abyss, you need to offer in-game skill resets for silver or your game will fail.

Now now there's no need to be so dramatic.

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Posted

Now now there's no need to be so dramatic.

I believe there is. I like aspects of the game and had hoped to spend at least a few months here.

But if their greedy marketing mafia think they can get away with this sort of thing and there is no public backlash to shame them into doing what is right, then it will go down as "just another grindy Korean cash grab."

I for one do not want to see that happen. I dropped Tera after like a month and that cash shop was nowhere near as bad as this.

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Posted (edited)

I believe there is. I like aspects of the game and had hoped to spend at least a few months here.

But if their greedy marketing mafia think they can get away with this sort of thing and there is no public backlash to shame them into doing what is right, then it will go down as "just another grindy Korean cash grab."

I for one do not want to see that happen. I dropped Tera after like a month and that cash shop was nowhere near as bad as this.

Err BDO's cash shop is actually extremely tame.

EDIT: The dye system sucks though. v.v

Edited by Catherine

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Posted

why would you ever need a full reset?

and no, i dont think a game has to provide you with resets to your deciscions by some unwritten law. i think a game has a set of rules you either live with or .. .you know, .. dont play ;)

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Err BDO's cash shop is actually extremely tame.

Really?

RNG slot machine for horse skills preying on addiction psychology with an EXTREMELY low yet completely undocumented chance of actually getting the skill you want.

Essential aspects of class diversity and build theorycrafting locked behind a pay wall.

Pay to win costumes that hide the names of hackers and griefers to avoid reporting.

No means to get these features with a long enough time/silver investment.

"Loyalty rewards" that takes over a year to save up enough for ONE full skill reset.

Prices on vanity items that cost as much as the base game (this is a B2P game remember, not F2P).

It is a F2P cash shop in a B2P game with core features locked behind a pay wall.

It is one of the worst I have seen without overtly selling [Elixir of Instant Winning].

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Posted

Really?

RNG slot machine for horse skills preying on addiction psychology with an EXTREMELY low yet completely undocumented chance of actually getting the skill you want.

Essential aspects of class diversity and build theorycrafting locked behind a pay wall.

Pay to win costumes that hide the names of hackers and griefers to avoid reporting.

No means to get these features with a long enough time/silver investment.

"Loyalty rewards" that takes over a year to save up enough for ONE full skill reset.

Prices on vanity items that cost as much as the base game (this is a B2P game remember, not F2P).

It is a F2P cash shop in a B2P game with core features locked behind a pay wall.

It is one of the worst I have seen without overtly selling [Elixir of Instant Winning].

I completely agree with the P2W ghillie suit but the rest of your points are bleh.

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I completely agree with the P2W ghillie suit but the rest of your points are bleh.

Dude clearly hasn't played something like Archeage, where the difference between the Whales and the rest was ridiculous, the only game I've played with a tamer cash shop would be Path of Exile.

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Posted

I have been playing more as well and I have found that while this theory works on paper, it isn't the way things work in the actual game.

First off, most classes have completely different skills for specializing in PVP or PVE. Tamer for instance, has radically different skills for PVE and AOE and for PVP stuns and grapples. To be efficient at both specs (which is required since the game forces you into PVP whether you want it or not and there is no end game besides PVP) requires more points than you have at any level by a considerable margin. This has been true at every ten level increment from 20 to 50.

Furthermore, you must PVE to grind for PVP. So you need PVE efficiency to do that grinding of skill points you talk of. HOWEVER, the game forces you into PVP at 45 and, since there is no end-game whatsoever, that is basically the whole point why you are grinding.

Since the skills needed for PVE efficiency required to grind the skill points for PVP efficiency must be invested BEFORE you can grind those points, you will naturally end up with a bunch of "useless" PVE skills by the time (and it is a LONG time) you finally grind out the points for PVP.

This requires a reset.

Even worse, no one wants to mindlessly repeat the same task until burnout. So, you will want to change up your skills from PVE to PVP in order to avoid that. However again, this requires paying real money every time you want to change your play style. Imaging if you were a warrior in WoW and wanted to swap from raiding as a tank to PVP even just once a week. Imaging having to pay $10 every single time.

DAUM has systematically engineered this game to be an extortionist cash grab that punishes customers for diversifying their play style. It sends a clear message: Want to avoid burnout? GIVE US MORE MONEY! Then in the end you burn out anyway because there is no real end game besides limited, repetitive, and unbalanced PVP.

DAUM, Pearl Abyss, you need to offer in-game skill resets for silver or your game will fail.

This is not a threat, it is a fact based on simple psychology.

Also, fire your evil mad scientist marketing psychologists that told you no one would notice these shenanigans.

Actually, it isnt hard to get all the skills you need, post 50, skillpoints tend to come way faster than levels. you arent meant to be changing your build all the time, you are supposed to prioritize the things most important to you.

Forced pvp is highly exagerated, you run into fights rarely, i have had maybe 3 fights in the last week, and skill points is the last of your concerns when that happens, gear and how many friends they have will dominate most of those match ups. Your fears just dont really line up with how the game actually plays out.

and yeah, you are supposed to grind for progress in the game, that doesnt change from level 1-60. Each player decides at what point on that curve, that they do, or dont need more power. This isnt really a game where everyone is supposed to reach max level/gear/stats thats why they keep letting you grind for more power until you are satisfied.

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Posted

I have not been playing long and wish there was a partial reset for skills.  I don't think a full reset is necessary.  Just maybe something hear and there, few and far between.  I got free inventory slots from quest that are also in cash shop.    

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Posted (edited)

Dude clearly hasn't played something like Archeage, where the difference between the Whales and the rest was ridiculous, the only game I've played with a tamer cash shop would be Path of Exile.

ESO.

No pay to win. No core game elements locked behind the pay wall.

Able to max inventory using in-game currency easily.

Able to reset skills any time for in-game currency easily.

TONS of Addons and a robust addon API for authors.

Monthly sub OPTIONAL, gives 10% XP, 10% gold gain, AND the monthly sub fee worth of cash shop credits.

Server-side code prevents the hacking BDO has.

Actual content besides cheap unbalanced grind to win PVP. Raids, dungeons, sieges, etc.

Active development constantly balancing skills and classes.

Frequent content updates.

BDO was worth checking out for a month but I can't see staying longer in it's current form.

Maybe to AFK loop level horses or fish while I play something else, but I won't contribute to the cash shop until there are some serious changes.

I don't really see this company caring enough to make them. It seems they sort of look at NA release as a cash milk for the white privilege Yankees. We are like an afterthought where they changed the way the game was designed to make it B2P and forced PVP at 45 instead of unlocked by a quest at 50 in order to encourage a flurry of rush-to-cap competitive cash shop splurging before it passes as yet another flash in the pan.

I really wish more gaming companies would have the passion and vision to plan for the long term.

 

EDIT:

LOL just noticed, the first town you visit in-game. Head just north. "Whale Farm."

What do you do there? MILK COWS.

The very first town tells you what to expect.

BDO: WHALE MILKING. The secret disclosure! xD

Edited by Phinix
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Posted

I don't know, maybe I'm still just massively bitter about how terrible Archeage turned out when it had so much potential (I still miss gliders), but to me BDO seems comparatively amazing, and Daum is head and shoulders above Trion.

I do actually agree in regards to skill resets, in a game that wants you to both pvp and pve at end game (as much end game as there is) and then have vastly different skill requirements to do either, it strikes me as madness to have only cash shop or minor skill resets available outside of cash shop.  But I look at something like that as teething problems, and something that will hopefully be worked out in due course, the games still pretty fresh this side of the world, and I think all the doom and gloom "Omg cashgrab game, daum is awful" posts are more than a little dramatic this early on.

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I don't know, maybe I'm still just massively bitter about how terrible Archeage turned out when it had so much potential (I still miss gliders), but to me BDO seems comparatively amazing, and Daum is head and shoulders above Trion.

I do actually agree in regards to skill resets, in a game that wants you to both pvp and pve at end game (as much end game as there is) and then have vastly different skill requirements to do either, it strikes me as madness to have only cash shop or minor skill resets available outside of cash shop.  But I look at something like that as teething problems, and something that will hopefully be worked out in due course, the games still pretty fresh this side of the world, and I think all the doom and gloom "Omg cashgrab game, daum is awful" posts are more than a little dramatic this early on.

I believe they are appropriate to what Daum is doing RIGHT NOW.

If they want to earn the respect and benefit of the doubt you speak of, they will have to actually make those changes that would warrant bestowing it. Until they do it makes no sense to judge them on what they MIGHT do, only what they DO. Korean version is a year ahead of us and they haven't changed any of it.

I understand the need to make money, and I have no problem with legit cash shops. Like I posted above, ESO is an example of a successful model that has a totally optional and non-intrusive cash shop. All essential game features are available for in-game currency including maxed inventory and infinite affordable skill resets, along with all the other benefits like anti-hacking server-side code and content beyond PVP, balance, etc.

IF this company ever realizes they don't have to manipulate customers and resort to predatory addiction peddling to maintain their profits, I MIGHT opt to invest.

Until then I'll play for free until the cash wall prevents that being any fun.

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ESO.

No pay to win. No core game elements locked behind the pay wall.

Able to max inventory using in-game currency easily.

Able to reset skills any time for in-game currency easily.

TONS of Addons and a robust addon API for authors.

Monthly sub OPTIONAL, gives 10% XP, 10% gold gain, AND the monthly sub fee worth of cash shop credits.

Server-side code prevents the hacking BDO has.

Actual content besides cheap unbalanced grind to win PVP. Raids, dungeons, sieges, etc.

Active development constantly balancing skills and classes.

Frequent content updates.

BDO was worth checking out for a month but I can't see staying longer in it's current form.

Maybe to AFK loop level horses or fish while I play something else, but I won't contribute to the cash shop until there are some serious changes.

I don't really see this company caring enough to make them. It seems they sort of look at NA release as a cash milk for the white privilege Yankees. We are like an afterthought where they changed the way the game was designed to make it B2P and forced PVP at 45 instead of unlocked by a quest at 50 in order to encourage a flurry of rush-to-cap competitive cash shop splurging before it passes as yet another flash in the pan.

I really wish more gaming companies would have the passion and vision to plan for the long term.

 

EDIT:

LOL just noticed, the first town you visit in-game. Head just north. "Whale Farm."

What do you do there? MILK COWS.

The very first town tells you what to expect.

BDO: WHALE MILKING. The secret disclosure! xD

Then you're free to return to ESO.

Shrugs.

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Posted

 I agree with Phinix,

their cash shop is very aggressive and let's not lose sight of the fact it is a great game and he wouldn't be here arguing about these things if he didn't like large parts of the game.

 

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Seriously? You were the one that suggested to go grind and get all the skills and now you are contradicting yourself that by saying we don't need to get all the skills.

I didn't ignore anything in your post. I'd rather say it's the opposite of that.

Also, the point of the topic is not that we can't get all the skills, but the fact that anytime Daum makes a change to the combat system or skills, people have to respec. Let's say Pearl Abyss decided to completely change the combat system. Everyone's spec will be completely wrong. Now let's assume that Pearl Abyss gives one full reset to everyone. How much does that help if literally no one knows what kind of builds are effective in pvp because the combat system was changed?

Face the facts, western MMO players don't like RNGesus interfering with a lot of things. 

grind if its so important to you and want every skills. and if you can't or don't have time, you can still get all the skills, just not fully upgraded version of it. its cheaper unlocking a new skill than upgrading current one for like 25 30 40 50 points later. also that fact you wanna experiment and practice stuffs makes me believe you wanna get competitive. if you ever plan to be competitive, you go grind to 55. otherwise most people would just see the description of the skill (dmg %, max targets, MP/SP usage, cooldown time) and watch the video showing what it does and decide to choose or not and later when they get enough points to spare, they'll unlock the 1st one just to try. also majority people that are new to this game have seen guides, grind spots, builds about the game cuz this game isn't exactly user friendly to new people. there's lot of information to take in and its 2016, people watch youtube videos, twitch streams, visit reddit page/forums and google. but no, you're not a reasonable person, just another hurr durr give me free stuffs guy.

if they revamp lot of skills for EVERY class then as I said, will be glad to ask for free full skill reset alongside especially since they may require new builds. we had new character and they gave free character slot so I don't see why they wouldn't.

you're playing the wrong game then. everything here includes RNGesus. upgrading gears, world boss/scroll boss/guild boss drops, BIS loots, buying rare items on AH, profession gains, horse breedings and skill changing, pet exchanges, daily quest boxes, apparently even compensation item. just be glad none of the stuffs are cash shop p2w for now.

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 I agree with Phinix,

their cash shop is very aggressive...

 

I don't like the skill reset being locked, but reading this almost made me spit out my coffee.

Go play Ragnarok online, MU online, Atlantica Online, and as many have said, AA. You'll see what a "aggressive" cash shop looks like.

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There's a a big fat old line between making money and squeezing every penny possible before your bullshit causes people to see past their addiction to the game and DAUM crossed that line like it wasn't even there since day one, they just haven't taken that one step that will push them over the edge.

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The fact that you can earn all skills throws all of this out the window.

You never stop earning skill points. You gain them by killing mobs. It is possible to earn every single skill for your class. There should never be a reason to have to reset your skills multiple times.

Sure you might want to do it once or maybe twice but don't have to as you can and probably will take all skills.

By the time you hit lvl 45 you should have a good idea of what skills you need to farm mobs. You can then reset your skills to allow you to do this thus making it much easier to gain skill points.

if there is no reason to have them then why is it in cash shop?

why is it so hard for you to understand that many players  like to change builds,experiment themself before they reach lvl all skills???

why can't i use all skills from start????

why the idiotic restictions????

 

 

 

 

 

 

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So many restrictions in a so called sandbox MMO....

this game is not a sandbox...it is a wanna be sandbox game that uses the "sandbox" moniker as an excuse to develop as little content as possible while sucking on your wallet.  don't get me wrong, there is a lot of fun to be had in this game but it has a lot of issues as well which is probably why it didn't do so hot overseas - give it another few months and more NA/EU people will grow tired of the issues too... which is too bad because this game has so much potential being squandered due to bad design decisions.

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grind if its so important to you and want every skills. and if you can't or don't have time, you can still get all the skills, just not fully upgraded version of it. its cheaper unlocking a new skill than upgrading current one for like 25 30 40 50 points later. also that fact you wanna experiment and practice stuffs makes me believe you wanna get competitive. if you ever plan to be competitive, you go grind to 55. otherwise most people would just see the description of the skill (dmg %, max targets, MP/SP usage, cooldown time) and watch the video showing what it does and decide to choose or not and later when they get enough points to spare, they'll unlock the 1st one just to try. also majority people that are new to this game have seen guides, grind spots, builds about the game cuz this game isn't exactly user friendly to new people. there's lot of information to take in and its 2016, people watch youtube videos, twitch streams, visit reddit page/forums and google. but no, you're not a reasonable person, just another hurr durr give me free stuffs guy.

if they revamp lot of skills for EVERY class then as I said, will be glad to ask for free full skill reset alongside especially since they may require new builds. we had new character and they gave free character slot so I don't see why they wouldn't.

you're playing the wrong game then. everything here includes RNGesus. upgrading gears, world boss/scroll boss/guild boss drops, BIS loots, buying rare items on AH, profession gains, horse breedings and skill changing, pet exchanges, daily quest boxes, apparently even compensation item. just be glad none of the stuffs are cash shop p2w for now.

Oh my whatever... 

What are you talking about???

PLEASE! Read the following text:

At first, you told someone that they can get all skills if they grind enough then I commented of how unrealistic your suggestion is. After that you told me that learning all skills is unnecessary. You've been saying the same thing for the last 3-4 replies with disreagrd to what you are replying to. Also, please, capitalize your sentences.

Let me put it clear:

  • I never said I wanted all the skills, I merely pointed out how unrealistic your suggestion to others were
  • Yes, people go watch guides... However, there are is a lot of outdated information that is based on the KR version.
  • I never said anything about free stuff except for in-game skill resets and that is what this thread is about.
  • If they overhaul (not revampevery class and give everyone a free reset, it would be pointless. That's because no one would know what the good builds are.
  • Lastly, I never complained for you specifically about the game's RNG, but you can't deny that a lot of people didn't like the RNG stats, for instance.
  • You said "be glad none of the stuffs are cash shop p2w for now"; Are you implying that the cash shop is going to be P2W? If so, where is your source?

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Can't really say much other than I support skill resets being ingame. I too like experimenting with my RPGs, not copying from a 'book'. Not a fan of the new revenue model for games either, so if it owt like this gets in my way, then I'm gone, or maybe BDO will just be my pretty screensaver. One free skill reset per account, deary, deary me - must think I'm daft.

"Many a man has lost a lot of money through t’ hole in t’top of his pocket” - Old Amos

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Posted

if there is no reason to have them then why is it in cash shop?

why is it so hard for you to understand that many players  like to change builds,experiment themself before they reach lvl all skills???

why can't i use all skills from start????

why the idiotic restictions????

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am actually one of the people who love changing their skills on a regular basis, at least in games that you only have a limited number of skills you can ever gain.

The one and only thing I liked about Rift is the ability to change up the entire makeup of your character.  But that is solely due to the fact that you only are ever able to gain so many skill points, ever.

I also suffer greatly from altitus. I lover trying out different classes until I find one or two that I really enjoy.

While I do have 1 of every class in BDO, I feel no need whatsoever to constantly change my skills. There is no point in it seeing as I will eventually get those skills back eventually.

I'm sure it helps greatly that I actually look into every skill thoroughly before I chose my next skill. I have even gone a day or two before I eventually decide on which skill I fell will be needed and works with the skills I already have.

In the end, the fact that you will eventually be able to get all skills is enough for me.

As to why would they put it in the cash shop, IMO it's because if you charge for something people will pay for it.

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Oh my whatever... 

What are you talking about???

PLEASE! Read the following text:

At first, you told someone that they can get all skills if they grind enough then I commented of how unrealistic your suggestion is. After that you told me that learning all skills is unnecessary. You've been saying the same thing for the last 3-4 replies with disreagrd to what you are replying to. Also, please, capitalize your sentences.

Let me put it clear:

  • I never said I wanted all the skills, I merely pointed out how unrealistic your suggestion to others were
  • Yes, people go watch guides... However, there are is a lot of outdated information that is based on the KR version.
  • I never said anything about free stuff except for in-game skill resets and that is what this thread is about.
  • If they overhaul (not revampevery class and give everyone a free reset, it would be pointless. That's because no one would know what the good builds are.
  • Lastly, I never complained for you specifically about the game's RNG, but you can't deny that a lot of people didn't like the RNG stats, for instance.
  • You said "be glad none of the stuffs are cash shop p2w for now"; Are you implying that the cash shop is going to be P2W? If so, where is your source?

If you read my post you would see that I said you can get all skills if they grind enough but "just not all the buffs and passive buffs skills", Those skills doesn't need experimentation, they does what it says and the passive buff is not even skill to press. Once again, reading just a single sentence and immediately replying with nonsense.

Learning all skill therefore is unnecessary because

a) you have guides and builds (forums always has the updated guides and discussions). Smart thing to do but you don't trust them cuz you're so good. I don't think we're too far off from KR version in class changes anyways so no, not all guides are outdated. Majority of the English ones have already been updated for the NA/EU.

b) you can learn all the beginning skills, just not fully upgraded of each of those skills. The more you upgrade of that, the more points you lose. So that's one way to get all skills except upgrades. Stupid wasteful thing to do but hey you wanted experiment all skills right? You did your experiment and you realize none of that mattered since everyone endgame uses the same skills, they're just better at it and higher geared and level than you. Well, you're in luck. You'll just get one full reset to revert this horrible change you did and go back to a. Gonna repeat this mistake on all characters? Pay up $9.

c) This is not highly skilled based game like Blade & Soul (before the massive bots and hacks) to even experiment on. They have free skill reset. Why? You have to keep changing your skill points and pick different skills depending on the class you fight. BDO have that? nope, use same skills just different movement. B&S skills have multiple tiers of upgrade and some of them completely changes that skill into something different. BDO have that? nope.

 

- That's only a if scenario and I don't see it happening but if it did happen, I would at least want one free full skill reset. The most they will do is make a certain skill nerfed to a point where you wouldn't use it or buff a skill you never use that you'd want to start using it.

- I don't like it either but that's just part of the game and something you'll have to get used to it. You did complain by saying 'Most western MMOers don't like RNGenus' but whatever.

- Not implying but its my hunch based on past experiences.

Continue on please, I do enjoy replying to your idiotic posts. xD

Edited by clangpicky

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Posted

Its fine atm, you should be glad you can even reset 1 skill atm for free though loyalty.

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