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Why is Recruiting so difficult?

22 posts in this topic

Posted

How is Recruiting people to guilds as a freshly made guild so difficult in BDO?
I've played other MMO's before and had guilds before as well, but I've never found it so difficult to recruit people, till I joined BDO...
I keep feeling like there's something I'm missing, some trick I have to pull off in order to start attracting people, as if there's more to it than just spamming in chat for members to join like in other MMO's.
I want to build up a PVP guild and get prepared for Valencia, It's been days and I've only had one person interested, but they ended up not joining.
There's not much I can put into the Guild Recruitment spam to grab peoples attention since I just started things up... almost feels as though I have to write a full on resume while having no job experience to write about.

So what do I do? Either I join a highly progressive, elitist, ego-centric guild where I'm almost worthless and made to feel that way, blatantly ignored 24/7 (I've ran into a lot of these guilds), or a laid back guild that does nothing and can hardly defend themselves in wars or just starts wars just because someones pride was hurt.
I really have no interest in being in someone else' guild.

I envision my guild being progressive, but fun oriented and a good community/family willing to help lower levels progress and learn.

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Posted

It's simply that in BDO you are punished for not having a guild, so most players already have one, or are looking for a big one able to sustain boss drops and huge guild quests.

Also, do you have discord / ts / a website, etc ...? Are you alone in your guild?

If you are alone and do not have any communication platform, even if the project looks awesome, I'd not be eager to join.

PS: I'm pretty much getting annoyed by the thousands recruitment messages / lfgs / lfms messages popping up in chat and hid the channel chat. Might be why.

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Posted (edited)

So what do I do? Either I join a highly progressive, elitist, ego-centric guild where I'm almost worthless and made to feel that way, blatantly ignored 24/7 (I've ran into a lot of these guilds), or a laid back guild that does nothing and can hardly defend themselves in wars or just starts wars just because someones pride was hurt.
I really have no interest in being in someone else' guild.
 

Eliminate everything else you said, and just look at that one paragraph.

 

That's what everyone else is thinking. Your guild would fall into the category of, "...can hardly defend themselves in wars". Plenty of established guilds can hardly defend themselves in wars, even if they actually do try, and have plenty of people of a decently high level. I can also tell you that my own former guild master complained that recruiting in this game is absurdly difficult, and we were a top 50 ranked guild with over 70 members. While the ranking is insignificant (some low ranking guilds are ridiculously strong), it makes an impression on people, yet wasn't enough in our case all the same. Your guild on the other hand is likely not even listed.

Basically, it's just the way this game trains people to handle their guild situation. Guild choice is a bigger deal in this game than just being your social circle and the way you gear up - it can affect your day to day experience in a huge way, based entirely on the actions of a careless or unlucky guild member grinding at the wrong place at the wrong time. As a result, you get less people that join just because why the hell not, because there's actually a reason not to for once. Not to mention that breaking contracts puts your ability to guild hop on cooldown.

Personally, I stayed unguilded for over a month when I joined this game, and the first guild I joined was because the leader offered me a 1 day trial contract, and no expectations of me staying. I ended up staying for 3 weeks, and only left because a friend of mine had been pestering me to join a larger guild since launch. And I had some minor disagreements with the guild I was in. Maybe you should try that angle out? Although it would mean anyone you recruit would be far from solid or reliable, you might get some numbers in..

Edited by Xialoh

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Posted

Thanks :) I'll take your advice into consideration.
Really appreciate you're time!

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Posted

How is Recruiting people to guilds as a freshly made guild so difficult in BDO?
I've played other MMO's before and had guilds before as well, but I've never found it so difficult to recruit people, till I joined BDO...
I keep feeling like there's something I'm missing, some trick I have to pull off in order to start attracting people, as if there's more to it than just spamming in chat for members to join like in other MMO's.
I want to build up a PVP guild and get prepared for Valencia, It's been days and I've only had one person interested, but they ended up not joining.
There's not much I can put into the Guild Recruitment spam to grab peoples attention since I just started things up... almost feels as though I have to write a full on resume while having no job experience to write about.

So what do I do? Either I join a highly progressive, elitist, ego-centric guild where I'm almost worthless and made to feel that way, blatantly ignored 24/7 (I've ran into a lot of these guilds), or a laid back guild that does nothing and can hardly defend themselves in wars or just starts wars just because someones pride was hurt.
I really have no interest in being in someone else' guild.

I envision my guild being progressive, but fun oriented and a good community/family willing to help lower levels progress and learn.

Bad timing, poor planning, too idealistic, and giving up too easily. :/ 

No offense, but these are the main problems I see with you based on your post. Bad timing is the most egregious offense though. A lot of people are already in established guilds and holding their breath for sieges (one of the main draws of this game). Once they begin and people realize that their guild doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of taking a territory let alone holding one, there will be a lot of movement and a lot of opportunities for recruitment. That's your best chance to build. Now just probably happens to be the worst.

Starting from nothing you have to be willing to compromise a bit on your ideals. It's good that you have a direction. However, since your guild has nothing to offer but you at this point, your leadership has to be the biggest selling point. People need to have faith in your ability to plan, improve, and lead. Start there, and when you have built a solid core of members then you can focus on putting your plan into action.

Again though, you probably couldn't have picked a worse time to start a guild. The majority of dedicated PvPers who have decided that they are sticking around have already found a home. This isn't really your fault, but take it from someone who took a small group of basically 3 people and turned it into a solid group of 60+ active members with their eyes on the prize. I had our recruitment post up hours after these forums opened and have been actively recruiting ever since. If there's one thing that's been consistently true since then, it's that timing is everything. There were weeks when we brought in dozens of people, and weeks of no applications whatsoever.

TL;DR - Even if everything goes right for you from here on out, it may just be too late. But keep at it and you might be rewarded for your patience. You never really get to sit back and put your feet up if you want to be a good guild leader. And try not to be so pessimistic about other guilds. Shopping around for an established one that matches your interests may be your best option.

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Posted

Jaybeth, I PMed you, we should talk.

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Posted

I feel ya. In my guild, about 21 of the core members left to create their own smaller guild. Now we are trying to rebuild (we still have 51 members and are still ranked in the top 60 on Edan and have discord, policy written, all of it...88 guild points, guild buffs...but even with all that, at this point its hard to find active members to fill our open slots. I think it is just bad timing in between patches...hopefully it changes soon!!

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Posted

1. Guild description is vague & extremely general
PvP focused + Family-like + helping lower members
This description fits like almost every PvP guilds out there. It is so vague and unhelpful. 
Solution: Action speaks louder than words. How are you going to help them? Perhaps giving them a taste of guides you had written could help. 
In other words, bold vague claims about future is worthless
(ie. I'm going to train members in pvp VS. here is the training regime for PvP I have designed. Here is the pdf, take a look) 
Which one is better? 

2. Strange promises
This "family" thing is nonsensical. You can't force or even predict how members will react. Even with these so called family guilds, you often get bunch of cliques. So it is only family for probably you and few other older members. Why does this thing matter? Well this affects member retention. 
Many are also aware that when guild cannot gain enough members, they resort to calling their guild family like environment. 

3. Little incentive, high risk
New guilds lack guild perks (ie. fishing bonus, protection) Thus, it is disadvantageous to join a new guild.  
Many are aware of this fact. You need to be able to compensate them somehow. 


 Ask yourself
a. How does your guild differ from hundreds of pvp focused guilds?
b. Why should people join yours over them? 

If you don't have good reply to these, you can't convince people to join.
Also, it is never too late to start a guild. Just like Roman Empire, large guilds can and do collapse. 

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Posted

Have some patience. If you have just started out your recruits will come. There are a number of players who go to one or two guilds before hand to fit in. There have been a number of guilds that have disbanded or have merged leaving a few in limbo.

Do you have a recruitment thread on the forum here that clearly sets out what you want your guild to be or what you expect from recruits? Make a list.

Do you have VOIP? Do you have a website?

Also just to let you know if you buy the megaphone to speak on server wide you get a lot of response usually. Sometimes up to 20 whispers which is hard to manage. The megaphone is once use only and costs 100 loyalty points.

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Posted

There are still a lot of unguilded people in the game. There are people in guilds that have misrepresented themselves looking for the right home. The problem is finding the right home for some of us...

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Posted

There are still a lot of unguilded people in the game. There are people in guilds that have misrepresented themselves looking for the right home. The problem is finding the right home for some of us...

saw you at our discord!! :)

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Posted (edited)

I can't speak to the "freshly made guild" part, but I can - as the primary point of recruitment - speak to the difficulty of getting people to join a guild in this game vs. others.  Honestly, I don't see it as all that much different from recruiting for any other game.

If I toss out 10 "hey, come join us!" posts, one or two of them will actually reach out to me.  That's about on par with other titles for which I've done guild recruiting.

My best suggestions: Be proactive, be realistic, and be honest.

  • Proactive: I check the BDO Guilds forum at least twice a day.  I skim every single "looking for guild" post that comes up for my server (and sometimes for other servers, because really new people often aren't invested enough to care if they quit a toon to change servers).  If the person seems like a good fit for my guild, I put my post out there for them.  Either I quote their original post or I tag them with an @mention to help draw attention to my post.  I usually address any salient points in their post (e.g., they say they want TeamSpeak but we use Mumble), then I drop an ad that has details about our guild (website, a little bit of guild history, a taste of our philosophy, and why I feel like we're a good fit for them specifically).  If they ignore my post, I move on without further contact; if they reply, I will usually send them a whisper in-game.  I follow this same general procedure on the BDOGuilds Reddit.  I actually don't bother spamming the general chat, but that's just me; you may find it useful.
  • Realistic: Probably 90% of the people at whom you post are going to ignore your comment entirely.  Of the ones that get back to you... some won't work out for one reason or another, either you just aren't the right fit or you never manage to find them online in the game.  Maybe 1-2 out of 10 will actually join your guild, and - out of those - about 10% will ultimately wind up taking the hit and leaving before they're really invested.  "Accuracy by volume" is the name of the game: just keep plugging away at every person that seems like they might fit in with your guild.  After all, that 10th person might be the awesome guildmate you've always been hoping to find!
  • Honest: Don't sell your guild as bigger than it is, more active than it is, more (or less) hard-core than it is.  If you're a new guild, your selling point is probably that people can be in on the ground-floor and help shape the feel of the community.  If you pimp your guild as HARD-CORE SUPER-ACTIVE 1337SAUCE, and people join based on that?  They're just gonna leave pissed, and you'll develop a bad reputation.  There are people out there that want to help make your guild awesome by joining when it's new.  Find them!

tl;dr - Don't give up!

people_will_come.thumb.gif.a49589ae8ca31

Edited by KarmaBum
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Posted

because a lot of people are leeches and want to instantly jump into the top guilds or the "best" guilds having done zero to actually make/help a guild grow.

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because a lot of people are leeches and want to instantly jump into the top guilds or the "best" guilds having done zero to actually make/help a guild grow.

Pretty much the story of that homunculus guild. 
Though all of them leaving my guild helped. Since they weren't actually interested in pvp and a lot of their members were just extra baggage and surly weren't interested in pvp.

Either way. I find myself in arenas, schooling people. Then when they ask me if I'll join their guild, I tell them to merge with mine.

We have what any guild that is small would want. Lots of wizards, lots of rangers, Geared players that aren't cowards looking to join what is thought to be a win all be all guild, that ends up getting crapped on by fewer players than they bring because they are just bad.

#JustAWeeBitSalty.

 

At the end of the day, you can build a player into something great, which is why we don't recruit lv 55s with xxx/xxx ap/dp right off the bat. We're not shit like that, even though it can be smart to do, that's a risky way to build loyals.

Nah.

My guild takes in people who are interested in bdo. That is, everything in BDO. We do verify that people are interested in Node Wars like we are, but we accept that everything else is still important to this game, as it's not just a pvp game as most ignorant people who can't think past their own bullshit fail to acknowledge.

That being said, I find it best to show others that my guild is not just some shit tier zerg, not full of inactive, and not full of weak minded / weak spirited people.
I do this myself by playing as hard as I can with the time that I have, and by staying loyal and true to the people I believe in, my friends, my family, my guild.

In this game, numbers don't mean as much as most people think they do. Gear means a lot but it's not bad to obtain the same level of gear progression as the ones "ahead" of you. 
Just takes work. Especially at this point, in which +15+ is not even out yet.

There are many things that people simply Do Not Do, that they could be to be improving many of the things that they have issues with, yet come to these forums / pm in game / etc. to complain. Not that OP was complaining. But, yeah.

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Posted

Steps for success

1. Find a recruitment officer

2. Tell him to recruit

3. Yell at him for finding no recruits, or yell at him for finding too little if he does get some

4. Success

 

@Jinta

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Posted

Ranking means nothing. It means you guys did guild missions often. 

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I can't speak to the "freshly made guild" part, but I can - as the primary point of recruitment - speak to the difficulty of getting people to join a guild in this game vs. others.  Honestly, I don't see it as all that much different from recruiting for any other game.

If I toss out 10 "hey, come join us!" posts, one or two of them will actually reach out to me.  That's about on par with other titles for which I've done guild recruiting.

My best suggestions: Be proactive, be realistic, and be honest.

  • Proactive: I check the BDO Guilds forum at least twice a day.  I skim every single "looking for guild" post that comes up for my server (and sometimes for other servers, because really new people often aren't invested enough to care if they quit a toon to change servers).  If the person seems like a good fit for my guild, I put my post out there for them.  Either I quote their original post or I tag them with an @mention to help draw attention to my post.  I usually address any salient points in their post (e.g., they say they want TeamSpeak but we use Mumble), then I drop an ad that has details about our guild (website, a little bit of guild history, a taste of our philosophy, and why I feel like we're a good fit for them specifically).  If they ignore my post, I move on without further contact; if they reply, I will usually send them a whisper in-game.  I follow this same general procedure on the BDOGuilds Reddit.  I actually don't bother spamming the general chat, but that's just me; you may find it useful.
  • Realistic: Probably 90% of the people at whom you post are going to ignore your comment entirely.  Of the ones that get back to you... some won't work out for one reason or another, either you just aren't the right fit or you never manage to find them online in the game.  Maybe 1-2 out of 10 will actually join your guild, and - out of those - about 10% will ultimately wind up taking the hit and leaving before they're really invested.  "Accuracy by volume" is the name of the game: just keep plugging away at every person that seems like they might fit in with your guild.  After all, that 10th person might be the awesome guildmate you've always been hoping to find!
  • Honest: Don't sell your guild as bigger than it is, more active than it is, more (or less) hard-core than it is.  If you're a new guild, your selling point is probably that people can be in on the ground-floor and help shape the feel of the community.  If you pimp your guild as HARD-CORE SUPER-ACTIVE 1337SAUCE, and people join based on that?  They're just gonna leave pissed, and you'll develop a bad reputation.  There are people out there that want to help make your guild awesome by joining when it's new.  Find them!

tl;dr - Don't give up!

Pretty much the story of that homunculus guild. 
Though all of them leaving my guild helped. Since they weren't actually interested in pvp and a lot of their members were just extra baggage and surly weren't interested in pvp.

Either way. I find myself in arenas, schooling people. Then when they ask me if I'll join their guild, I tell them to merge with mine.

We have what any guild that is small would want. Lots of wizards, lots of rangers, Geared players that aren't cowards looking to join what is thought to be a win all be all guild, that ends up getting crapped on by fewer players than they bring because they are just bad.

#JustAWeeBitSalty.

 

At the end of the day, you can build a player into something great, which is why we don't recruit lv 55s with xxx/xxx ap/dp right off the bat. We're not shit like that, even though it can be smart to do, that's a risky way to build loyals.

Nah.

My guild takes in people who are interested in bdo. That is, everything in BDO. We do verify that people are interested in Node Wars like we are, but we accept that everything else is still important to this game, as it's not just a pvp game as most ignorant people who can't think past their own bullshit fail to acknowledge.

That being said, I find it best to show others that my guild is not just some shit tier zerg, not full of inactive, and not full of weak minded / weak spirited people.
I do this myself by playing as hard as I can with the time that I have, and by staying loyal and true to the people I believe in, my friends, my family, my guild.

In this game, numbers don't mean as much as most people think they do. Gear means a lot but it's not bad to obtain the same level of gear progression as the ones "ahead" of you. 
Just takes work. Especially at this point, in which +15+ is not even out yet.

There are many things that people simply Do Not Do, that they could be to be improving many of the things that they have issues with, yet come to these forums / pm in game / etc. to complain. Not that OP was complaining. But, yeah.

Just wanted to say I like the approach both of you are recruiting with, shows your guild thinks beyond the numbers a virtual character has next to its name tag.

@Jaybeth It will take some time to build out a guild especially if you're the sole member of it for now. I would not resort to the chat spamming technique though, it's as annoying as gold bot spammers and has a rather desperate feel to it.

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Just wanted to say I like the approach both of you are recruiting with, shows your guild thinks beyond the numbers a virtual character has next to its name tag.

@Jaybeth It will take some time to build out a guild especially if you're the sole member of it for now. I would not resort to the chat spamming technique though, it's as annoying as gold bot spammers and has a rather desperate feel to it.

My guild is my family.
Those who remain I fight and die in combat with.
Those who leave get pk'd on sight.

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Thanks :) I'll take your advice into consideration.
Really appreciate you're time!

Merge in with us. You can be an officer :) We have perks! 

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We recently started our Guild on Orwen <Cynical> and within three weeks we have 90 members. We are a pvp guild and thats all we've been doing. Having fun and pvping our little hearts out. So far just playing the game and enjoying ourselves has been enough to attract people. Dont give up bud!!! Keep at it and eventually you'll be able to build up your guild!

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Merge in with us. You can be an officer :) We have perks! 

Lol, I appreciate the offer, actually I appreciate a lot of the offers people have made to me.
To me it's not about having a higher rank (well, in a sense it is), the reason I decline is because yes, I am Idealistic, I have a vision and I prefer no chains when trying to shape or build something I desire to become a reality;
I like having the control, and ability to maintain how things are structured and organized within the guild, what is done, how and why.
I like the guild to be made in my image, based on my ideals and philosophy and not someone else' where as I feel as though I have to compete for superiority in intellect, that's not saying that in my guild my word is law, just saying that I do not appreciate being ignored, having an idea shoved aside or replaced by a higher authorities, I have the willingness to listen to what someone has to say and what they think is best and consider it.

You could say that, that's not what it'll be like in "your" guild, but from past experience as an officer among many others who have been in place much longer, my ability within another guild could only go so far till someone above me or in the same place says no.
When I say it isn't about having a higher rank, yet it is in a sense, it's because I am a neutral person, I have ran into many people and guilds who favor friends and opinion over logic and responsibility, I do not want to end up under the authority of someone who judges and decides what's best based on opinion and their emotional ties to certain members.
That is why I find it easier to be leader, because under me, there is no nepotism, favoritism, opinionated judgement or ignorance. What is fair, what people want and think does not go unchecked under me, does not get shoved aside or ignored, no one is better than the other so long as they wish to be treated fairly and do the same to others; there is only what is fair and just, that's what it means to be a "Crows shadow", that is why I have a vision for my guild to take down PKers and griefers, to execute upon them what is fair and just.
I know people don't like to be PK'd in this game or any other game where you can possibly get PK'd, I also know people despise griefers, I know people just want to play this game for the life skills and I sympathize with them when people are trying to kill them (I think any sane human would sympathize with a defendant if they were attacked for no reason).

But that is me, and I appreciate all of your posts and advice for recruiting :)
Looks like this Crow still needs to learn how to spread its wings and fly.

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Jaybeth, are you 55 yet?

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