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Is a tank Wizard possible?

23 posts in this topic

Posted

Guys, as a older gamer I enjoy the ranged style of the Wizard. I'm still a little squishy and so is there a armor set / equipment build that makes me a bit tanky?

Maybe without a shield there's no chance but thought I'd ask.

 

Thanks.

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Posted

You could focus on DP and your supportive skills. Magic Shield/Heal/Magic Lighthouse etc...

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Posted (edited)

I think this board is what you're looking for.

Short answer is yes. However you WILL have to sacrifice offensive potential to some degree. It's a matter of balancing the scale with weights.

 

Edited by Enumeratingw7
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Posted

I'm 125ap & 215 dp with DUO accessories. It works out pretty well so far, but don't know how it'll work out when +16-20 comes out. 

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Posted

As long as we have +15 as the cap you can got tanky Wizard alright and have a good time with around 200 dp. Enemies will take a while to take you down and you have time to heal yourself.

 

Once +20 gear is released and a good amount of players will have +17 the damage scales so insanely strong that dp will be worthless and its a game of who 1 shots whom first where the Wizards will only be able to do that every 10 minutes once our instacast is ready. I hope Daum really does something on the scaling of the +17 and upwards gear so that defensive power is still a viable stat instead of something that wont really help you.

 

And I pray for Pearl Abyss to give us more instant cast abilities with our awakening (true instant cast not 10 second long stupid animations till it casts)

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Posted

Wizard have a lot of tools to survive. Maxing Teleport, Dodge, Heals, Buffs helps a lot. +15 Armor of whatever type is also a big boost.

Not getting hit is the best defense we have.

Pushing 200 DP at the cost of AP doesn't make sense to me, but it is an option.

Once +16 gear comes out, people will naturally be going this path and that diminishing returns for focusing solely on DP becomes a waste in my opinion.

Wizard spells make them an offensive power house in GvG and group grinding PVE. Weakening that to take a few more hits seems like a waste to me. If you are being focused and can't teleport, dodge, heal, V, you are most likely dead regardless.

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Posted

Wizard have a lot of tools to survive. Maxing Teleport, Dodge, Heals, Buffs helps a lot. +15 Armor of whatever type is also a big boost.

Not getting hit is the best defense we have.

Pushing 200 DP at the cost of AP doesn't make sense to me, but it is an option.

Once +16 gear comes out, people will naturally be going this path and that diminishing returns for focusing solely on DP becomes a waste in my opinion.

Wizard spells make them an offensive power house in GvG and group grinding PVE. Weakening that to take a few more hits seems like a waste to me. If you are being focused and can't teleport, dodge, heal, V, you are most likely dead regardless.

At DUOs with 1 Ogre ring.
 

Scarla Necklace  II - 7AP/7DP 

Outlaw Ring II-  5 AP/ 6DP  x 2 = 10AP/ 12DP

Riddle Earring II - 7 DP 3 ACC x 2= 14DP 6 ACC

Total AP/DP/ACC:   17 AP/  33DP / 6 ACC

VS

Ogre ring - 10 AP

Marks Of Shadow II-  9AP x 2 = 18 AP

Witch's Earring II - 9 AP x 2=  18 AP

Total AP:  46AP

---------------------------------------------------

Difference :  29AP / 33 DP / 6 ACC

 

It seems like a pretty bad idea for later on, but at this point if you can afford both of them it's pretty worth it to test it out.  So far it's worked out really well for me, I'm able to get away with 3+ people on me while wizards who stack only AP are having the struggle with 2+ people.. while i still have the ability to burst down people with my insta-cast abilities at this point too.

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Posted

It seems like a pretty bad idea for later on, but at this point if you can afford both of them it's pretty worth it to test it out.  So far it's worked out really well for me, I'm able to get away with 3+ people on me while wizards who stack only AP are having the struggle with 2+ people.. while i still have the ability to burst down people with my insta-cast abilities at this point too.

 

 

Obviously if you have access to 10s of millions worth of gear or RNG loves you, this is less of an issue. I doubt the OP is in that spot considering the question.

Looking at the "DP Wizard" thread, I see people with AP in the 70s and DP 30+ less than you saying they are tanky and find it silly.

You aren't exactly low end so not the best example.

Without praying to RNG gods or needing a 100 million to shop with, 130/175 or so should be possible just with standard gear (some effort required of course).

If someone can go above those, awesome, but I wouldn't suggest someone drop to 100 AP to go to 200 DP for example. The trade off doesn't seem worth it, but that's just my style and how I see the class being played.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of data to suggest what stats even do where it's just personal experience and preference.

As I said though, the class already has plenty of tools to keep us up and if all of those are failing us, DP alone probably isn't going to make a huge difference.

I'm curious what the AP/DP is of these people that struggle with 2+ people are though.

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Posted

At DUOs with 1 Ogre ring.
 

Scarla Necklace  II - 7AP/7DP 

Outlaw Ring II-  5 AP/ 6DP  x 2 = 10AP/ 12DP

Riddle Earring II - 7 DP 3 ACC x 2= 14DP 6 ACC

Total AP/DP/ACC:   17 AP/  33DP / 6 ACC

VS

Ogre ring - 10 AP

Marks Of Shadow II-  9AP x 2 = 18 AP

Witch's Earring II - 9 AP x 2=  18 AP

Total AP:  46AP

---------------------------------------------------

Difference :  29AP / 33 DP / 6 ACC

 

It seems like a pretty bad idea for later on, but at this point if you can afford both of them it's pretty worth it to test it out.  So far it's worked out really well for me, I'm able to get away with 3+ people on me while wizards who stack only AP are having the struggle with 2+ people.. while i still have the ability to burst down people with my insta-cast abilities at this point too.

Any tips on getting those outlaw rings? mine are plain not even pri because i seem completely unable to beat the snipes for these.where do you farm em?

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Posted (edited)

At DUOs with 1 Ogre ring.
 

Scarla Necklace  II - 7AP/7DP 

Outlaw Ring II-  5 AP/ 6DP  x 2 = 10AP/ 12DP

Riddle Earring II - 7 DP 3 ACC x 2= 14DP 6 ACC

Total AP/DP/ACC:   17 AP/  33DP / 6 ACC

VS

Ogre ring - 10 AP

Marks Of Shadow II-  9AP x 2 = 18 AP

Witch's Earring II - 9 AP x 2=  18 AP

Total AP:  46AP

---------------------------------------------------

Difference :  29AP / 33 DP / 6 ACC

 

It seems like a pretty bad idea for later on, but at this point if you can afford both of them it's pretty worth it to test it out.  So far it's worked out really well for me, I'm able to get away with 3+ people on me while wizards who stack only AP are having the struggle with 2+ people.. while i still have the ability to burst down people with my insta-cast abilities at this point too.

There isn't really much point when you can get up to 177 DP just from your armor. I'm sitting at 153 sheet AP(+ 7grunil, +10 from weapon, +5 from offhand, +5 from food, +4 from alch stone) and regardless am still extremely tanky due to high resists, proper use of super armor and mobility, and 2k hp(even more with food buff or when I hit 57). Too me, it makes no sense to gimp your own AP just for a few DP points.  

Edited by Walk
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Posted (edited)

As long as we have +15 as the cap you can got tanky Wizard alright and have a good time with around 200 dp. Enemies will take a while to take you down and you have time to heal yourself.

 

Once +20 gear is released and a good amount of players will have +17 the damage scales so insanely strong that dp will be worthless and its a game of who 1 shots whom first where the Wizards will only be able to do that every 10 minutes once our instacast is ready. I hope Daum really does something on the scaling of the +17 and upwards gear so that defensive power is still a viable stat instead of something that wont really help you.

 

And I pray for Pearl Abyss to give us more instant cast abilities with our awakening (true instant cast not 10 second long stupid animations till it casts)

They already said that they're redoing the +16-20 bonuses, just don't know when it will happen.

Edited by Zephan

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Posted

There isn't really much point when you can get up to 177 DP just from your armor. I'm sitting at 153 sheet AP(+ 7grunil, +10 from weapon, +5 from offhand, +5 from food, +4 from alch stone) and regardless am still extremely tanky due to high resists, proper use of super armor and mobility, and 2k hp(even more with food buff or when I hit 57). Too me, it makes no sense to gimp your own AP just for a few DP points.  

I'm pretty sure you've seen this : https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/4cb2hk/accuracy_explained_tests_results_and/

From my point and my own personal tests from these results..What I've noticed is the same as this persons tests. Also it effects your resistances to kd's & stuns. Meaning the more dp you have the more often you will see "immune" without your magic shield or protected area up. As I've said, if you can afford it , it's worth a try to test and play out if you like the play style compared to being pure AP.  Personally, i have both sets just because I don't know how 16-20 will work out for the NA/EU version. But overall I've tested both sets and I like the hybrid one more. There are people who go a bit more extreme than me and get the Krea Dagger & Rhutum / Ancient Weapon core but I feel that sacrifice is a bit too much. At this point in the patch there isn't much to do so people are have a lot more money and time to do stuff while others catch up. 

Any tips on getting those outlaw rings? mine are plain not even pri because i seem completely unable to beat the snipes for these.where do you farm em?

They drop from elrics at elric temple or on the mountain beside them. 

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Posted

Look, man, everything is possible because every class can use the same armor. But you've gotta realize that DP is a minor defensive bonus.

The only differentiation between classes are skill kits, iframes, and the server being unable to handle iframe desync.

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Posted

I'm pretty sure you've seen this : https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/4cb2hk/accuracy_explained_tests_results_and/

From my point and my own personal tests from these results..What I've noticed is the same as this persons tests. Also it effects your resistances to kd's & stuns. Meaning the more dp you have the more often you will see "immune" without your magic shield or protected area up. As I've said, if you can afford it , it's worth a try to test and play out if you like the play style compared to being pure AP.  Personally, i have both sets just because I don't know how 16-20 will work out for the NA/EU version. But overall I've tested both sets and I like the hybrid one more. There are people who go a bit more extreme than me and get the Krea Dagger & Rhutum / Ancient Weapon core but I feel that sacrifice is a bit too much. At this point in the patch there isn't much to do so people are have a lot more money and time to do stuff while others catch up. 

They drop from elrics at elric temple or on the mountain beside them. 

Resists are an entirely separate thing from DP. You get more from either gems or the necklaces. I run very high resistances myself, which goes hand in hand with why I'm so hard to kill compared to other wizards.

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Posted

Look, man, everything is possible because every class can use the same armor. But you've gotta realize that DP is a minor defensive bonus.

The only differentiation between classes are skill kits, iframes, and the server being unable to handle iframe desync.

A while back I did some brief testing with a Warrior to see if we took damage the same. With the same DP and a Sorc using basic attacks in the front and back, the Warrior took less damage per hit compared to myself and with a typical combo as well. No block/resists or anything were being used so it was just straight attacks vs DP. Obviously with skills and what not, the difference is more obvious.

Could of just been my experience though and didn't really bother looking into it more as it made sense that a "tanky" class takes less damage naturally.

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Posted

A while back I did some brief testing with a Warrior to see if we took damage the same. With the same DP and a Sorc using basic attacks in the front and back, the Warrior took less damage per hit compared to myself and with a typical combo as well. No block/resists or anything were being used so it was just straight attacks vs DP. Obviously with skills and what not, the difference is more obvious.

Could of just been my experience though and didn't really bother looking into it more as it made sense that a "tanky" class takes less damage naturally.

I run around with 1 dp and it's just as effective as my full armor set as a tamer.

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Posted

I run around with 1 dp and it's just as effective as my full armor set as a tamer.

Maycs cenze...

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Posted (edited)

Maycs cenze...

Sometimes kzarka 1 shots me with 1 dp. sometimes he barely hurts me.

Ogres never one shot me with 1 dp.

Most world bosses 1 shot me even if I have 140+ dp.

Usually other players 2~5 shot me with untested dp/no dp.

+/-1200 hp at all times as a 55 tamer with 100 hp guild buff,

Seems like random damage taken to me.

Edited by Keshanberk

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Posted (edited)

I'm pretty sure you've seen this : https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/4cb2hk/accuracy_explained_tests_results_and/

From my point and my own personal tests from these results..What I've noticed is the same as this persons tests. Also it effects your resistances to kd's & stuns. Meaning the more dp you have the more often you will see "immune" without your magic shield or protected area up. As I've said, if you can afford it , it's worth a try to test and play out if you like the play style compared to being pure AP.  Personally, i have both sets just because I don't know how 16-20 will work out for the NA/EU version. But overall I've tested both sets and I like the hybrid one more. There are people who go a bit more extreme than me and get the Krea Dagger & Rhutum / Ancient Weapon core but I feel that sacrifice is a bit too much. At this point in the patch there isn't much to do so people are have a lot more money and time to do stuff while others catch up. 

They drop from elrics at elric temple or on the mountain beside them. 

Not sure if I'm reading the document correctly, but seems to be that DP only decreases the amount of damage you take and doesn't help your chance to dodge/evade, resists, etc.

If accuracy scales the same as tested, maintaining 36+ Acc should have the same hit rate vs 175 or 200+ DP (90%+).

It is possible to reach 35-40 Acc, 130-140 AP, 175-185 DP with some effort and without praying to the RNG gods too much.

If AP is just damage and DP damage reduction, they should balance out if two people +/- the same and it's just style preference, but the issue from KR is AP scales much better and it isn't balanced. We'll see how NA/EU turn out.

With my limited options, I'd rather maintain higher ACC and okay AP along with standard DP than try to tip the scale one way or another to hope it actually does something. I envy those with more toys to test with :D

Sometimes kzarka 1 shots me with 1 dp. sometimes he barely hurts me.

Ogres never one shot me with 1 dp.

Most world bosses 1 shot me even if I have 140+ dp.

Usually other players 2~5 shot me with untested dp/no dp.

+/-1200 hp at all times as a 55 tamer with 100 hp guild buff,

Seems like random damage taken to me.

Well one thing this game gets right is RNG in all its glory.

Edited by APE

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Posted

There isn't really much point when you can get up to 177 DP just from your armor. I'm sitting at 153 sheet AP(+ 7grunil, +10 from weapon, +5 from offhand, +5 from food, +4 from alch stone) and regardless am still extremely tanky due to high resists, proper use of super armor and mobility, and 2k hp(even more with food buff or when I hit 57). Too me, it makes no sense to gimp your own AP just for a few DP points.  

This nails it on the head.

You can have your cake and eat it too. 177 DP just from ultimate grunil is plenty when stacked with a decent HP pool. The AP accessories will have much longer life span in usefulness as well then DP ones.

I'm currently in non-ultimate 161DP(Core Belt) and having that extra 'tank' DP might allow you to survive some situations, but mostly if you get caught on the ground in skirmish/gvg it's already over. Better to play smarter and have a much bigger impact on dealing fight changing damage when you catch out a big group of targets then to knock them down to only have them get up and walk away from it. There isn't quite another feeling like mowing down an entire group of targets in mere seconds.

An example from a large scale GVG, sorry for the ultra ms paint censor, but forum anonymity is a plus:

cpvp.thumb.png.6bf6ddbe683be2b8457420962

 

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Posted (edited)

Not sure if I'm reading the document correctly, but seems to be that DP only decreases the amount of damage you take and doesn't help your chance to dodge/evade, resists, etc.

And you're right, actually this guy made some test, and thought it was DP was increased the dodge chance, but it was only because of hidden buff from +15 armor that gives you dodge bonus. Was just discovered not long ago.

Edited by Darkhain

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Posted

The funny thing about this thread is that there are so many ways now with Mediah out to capitalize on both AP and DP. You have to take into account hidden stats and when we start hitting diminishing returns. Honestly at +15 Weapons/Armor - Liverto/Steel and Ultimate Gear which is a pain in that ass you are already sitting pretty good for both AP and DP.

Wizards already have a base +20 AP from the Skill Tree, then another 5 for guild, and 5 from food. I also have +10 on weapon as I run Liverto with 2x +5 AP Gems. So with those weapons, Scarla Necklass, PRI Outlaw Ring, DUO Outlaw Ring, I sit at a nice 116 Listed AP and a nice and healthly 156 AP hidden. Then with my armor all ultimate now, a Corrupt Ruby Necklace, PRI Token of Friendship, PRI Rhutum (Still trying for Ancient Weapon Core) I sit at 214 Listed DP and 224 hidden again from food and guild buff both +5. When you add Magic Shield to that, even if I just stand there and take a beating most players just tickle. I sit at a nice 1897 HP with Calpheon Special up as well. Need to hit 56/57 and that will even be higher. Don't get me wrong this game has a place for both AP and DP builds and there is probably a point when you have too much of one or the other. I currently feel that is actually my category right now. However until they release the full Ancient Core neck and belt set there isn't too much I can do the change this without losing too much DP as I feel having 210ish Hidden DP is about where you want to be. But believe me when I say at 210 DP a Wizard can be one of the hardest classes to kill. Just my opinion though, do what you will.

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Posted

Doesn't seem to matter much in PvP if you have 170 DP or like 220 DP from a tanky jewellery setup. If players catch you on the ground&cc'ed, it's game over either way. HP pool and resistances does more for survivability.

In PvE, you shouldn't be getting hit much to begin. Using a DP stacked build actually sounds way harder in PvE, since you(due to less AP) might be forced to blink around waiting for skills + combos to come of cooldown. More AP = faster kills, more loot, more silver.

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