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pm diary PM Diary 2.2 - Cash Shop and more


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Posted

So as I said, It's an argument about the perception of fairness. Would there be a short-term advantage? Of course. In the long-term that advantage is effectively nullified. In the short-term, it is unfair compared to the players who have to grind. Being a player who would prefer to grind, it doesn't bother me. Even though I have the money to simply buy and sell to obtain silver. It really comes down to if each individual is bothered that someone got what they did, easier. Personally, it doesn't bother me.

i played 2  months on the korean server, couldnt grind because always there were better geared people that would come and pk me at lvl 50-55 to grind in my spot, this could happen in eu as well just because of that advantage

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Posted (edited)

devs already implemented costumes 2 b sold on RU version via npcs. Devs control all prices of items being listed on AH including costumes.. so they can lower it to 1 silver for 1 piece or 10+million per piece like it currently is on KR..

At that point you are completely relying on the developers to manage the economy. Truth be told, I think that's completely silly and one of the reasons the game isn't doing so well in other regions.

If devs say top tier gear is worth 1b or 500m and outfits are worth 2b or 1b then isn't it their fault for setting those prices to begin with? We're all arguing about selling outfits when the developers themselves set the prices for it. With the way the auction house works it's not even an economy anymore it's a shop controlled by the developers where players either spend or get paid out what the developers say. Sure the money comes from a different player instead of magically conjured like from an NPC, but the price fixing isn't healthy.

I don't believe the cash shop is the problem with KR. I think the problems lies in the weapon scaling and price fixing of the developers. If DAUM was to fix the scaling and allow the economy to flow via non-limited Auction House or allowing full Player to Player trading I think our version would be much better off than the others in PvP, PvE, and GvG.

Of course with all the hate on player trading and outfit selling on these forums I'm not sure these changes would ever take place. Because of that, I don't see my self playing Black Desert in the long term anymore. The lack of trading just really kills the MMO experience for me, I personally enjoy playing video game economies and in this game, if things continue as they are, that feature isn't here for me.

Edited by JoeyDee9

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Posted

In the short-term, certainly. In the long-term that advantage no longer exists though. Considering that GvG isn't going to be on release, and the fact that a large base of players will hit 50 in the first week, who will then turn to grinding silver, it isn't as big of an issue as you make it to be. There will already be a good number of people who have high level enchants by the time GvG is released.

long term no advantage? ok ok.. go check out the ppl who have played KR version since launch and watch them get 1 shot by Koreans who have used pay2win to get themselves the best gear. problem isn't the first month or so, every1 will get the same amount of gear roughly.. getting 2 +15 isn't hard nor does it take a long time.. once +15 to +20 gear comes out then u gonna see how bad the effects can be..

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Posted

i played 2  months on the korean server, couldnt grind because always there were better geared people that would come and pk me at lvl 50-55 to grind in my spot, this could happen in eu as well just because of that advantage

This will happen in any server, at any time, if you go play for two months when the game has been out for a while.

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Posted

This will happen in any server, at any time, if you go play for two months when the game has been out for a while.

You know very well that my point is on Europe when the shop items will be put on the market, this will happen sir. That was just an example of what that advantage will do.

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Posted

long term no advantage? ok ok.. go check out the ppl who have played KR version since launch and watch them get 1 shot by Koreans who have used pay2win to get themselves the best gear. problem isn't the first month or so, every1 will get the same amount of gear roughly.. getting 2 +15 isn't hard nor does it take a long time.. once +15 to +20 gear comes out then u gonna see how bad the effects can be..

The disparity between +15 to +20 is well documented, and many people have issues with this. I feel It's a separate issue from the market issue, since people who had gotten +20 on their own, would ----- people who didn't have that regardless of the market. I'm not opposed to your idea of buying from an NPC though. I'm not advocating for a system to give players an unfair advantage. I am advocating for a system where I don't have to spend more of my money to look nice.

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Posted

You know very well that my point is on Europe when the shop items will be put on the market, this will happen sir. That was just an example of what that advantage will do

Alright. Let's run a scenario. Let's say a month after release when GvG is released that they allow costumes to be sold on the market. Will people who start out be able to catch up to those who are already well geared? Perhaps. Will they be able to fight for grinding spots? Could certainly happen. A month after release though, those grinding spots will be contested anyway. Regardless if it was from a person who was grinding, or a person who sold costumes. However, let me be clear. I am not advocating for a system of selling costumes to market. I am advocating for any system that allows me to look nice without spending any more of my money. Whether that's adding in gear that actually changes the look of what you have, being able to buy from an NPC, or being able to sell on the market. I am for a system that allows this to happen.  

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Alright. Let's run a scenario. Let's say a month after release when GvG is released that they allow costumes to be sold on the market. Will people who start out be able to catch up to those who are already well geared? Perhaps. Will they be able to fight for grinding spots? Could certainly happen. A month after release though, those grinding spots will be contested anyway. Regardless if it was from a person who was grinding, or a person who sold costumes. However, let me be clear. I am not advocating for a system of selling costumes to market. I am advocating for any system that allows me to look nice without spending any more of my money. Whether that's adding in gear that actually changes the look of what you have, being able to buy from an NPC, or being able to sell on the market. I am for a system that allows this to happen.  

But what you are asking for is the benefits of a non p2w mom, with no sub and a one off payment to then use their only method of subsidising to be given to you for free. Thats just wrong.

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Posted (edited)

tell me y u want it from the market place not from an npc.. is it because market place will grant players a lot of silver.. silver which can be abused and used to buy more powerful gear? :)

Someone else brought up an excellent point. Instead of people buying costumes to sell, which actually helps supports the game and continued development, you open the door for bots and RMT. The people who buy their way to victory will with or without cash shop items being sold on the market. The question is if the developers and community will profit or third party RMT sites that steal accounts, spam chat, bot, and sell gold will profit instead.

Edited by hazenvirus

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Posted

u r that special type of ignorant  the type when if u think something is right.. no matter how many ppl show u that u r wrong u still belive it. u remind me of water boy "but mama said , mama said "

what sound arguments have u shown :D? nothing.. besides u want 2 buy a costume without rl money on the AH.. despite ppl telling over and over why its bad.. even despite some1 suggesting for u 2 suggest an npc 2 sell costumes so u can still get ur costume with silver.... but that's not what u originaly wanted even tho u get the same result(costume) and desntt break the game.. :P

ur bs is quite clearly exposed as u think u know facts about this game but u seem to know next to nothing - u say the devs intended 2 implement the cash shop after everything settles in kr.. still waiting for that quote even tho it doesn't exist. u were somehow under the impression players could determine how much silver they cud list a costume for, not knowing the devs control prices.. u also think because other games used a cash shop without effecting the game, itl be the same here.. despite ppl non stop telling u how and why it will cause damage but still u say  " You have yet to explain HOW this system harms the game".

I haven't had even one person show me I'm wrong. I've had several people tell me I'm wrong, but nobody's shown me jack all. If you're the type of person who just gives up and changes course because a few people tell you you're wrong, that's on you. I'm not so weak. If you bothered to provide evidence, or logical arguments, that'd be one thing. But so far you've offered nothing but a spew of illiterate and barely incomprehensible gibberish that can be summed up as "I'm right because I say so". I'm sorry, it'll take a bit more than that to make me admit I'm wrong.

And what arguments have I provided? How about the fact that this system is used in hundreds of MMOs with not even one of them showing any negative effects from this system. Oh but BDO is a special snowflake of an MMO and somehow, magically, the only MMO in existence that suffers from this system. I provide HUNDREDS of examples that show this system works, but all that is just thrown out the window because "BDO is different!". Alright, how's BDO different? Who the hell knows, you sure as hell don't. After all when questioned how, exactly, this system hurts BDO you just go "muh P2W!" as if that means jack all. You give reasons like "but you can buy gear and this is a gear focused game!" as if you can't do the exact same in every other MMO. What MMO isn't bloody gear based? They're all gear based. And yet even when they're gear based this system causes no problems whatsoever. Even when they're PVP/GVG focused, this system causes no problems.

So again, I provide examples, I use logic to explain that this system doesn't hurt the game. You just irrationally scream and rage that it's a horrid system that ruins games without actually being able to explain how it hurts the game.

I'll give you a chance to redeem yourself. You think the fact that hundreds of MMOs use this system without any ill effects is irrelevant. You think BDO is different. So explain to me, in explicit detail, what makes BDO different from those games and how this system would negatively impact the game. And don't bother saying "because you can buy gear with silver and get ahead!" because you can do the exact same thing in every other MMO and it's never caused any problem. So that has been PROVEN to not hurt the game even when it's gear focused and PVP/GVG focused. So other than that, what possible way does this system hurt BDO? Again, explicit detail. No emoticons, no "hahahaha u dum", explain it clearly for everyone to see. If you're so sure you're right then you should at least be able to defend your stance with logic and facts, right?

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Posted

I would rather pay $10-15 USD a month subscription for this game than have it be P2W. If you are needing a steady inflow of cash, please go sub instead of P2W.

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Posted

But what you are asking for is the benefits of a non p2w mom, with no sub and a one off payment to then use their only method of subsidising to be given to you for free. Thats just wrong.

Is it? What if I simply decided I won't buy any costumes anyway because I refuse to pay more money? Exact same result. However, if I am willing to pay in game currency to buy an outfit, that means someone else had to buy from the company. In that way, I am indirectly supporting the development of the game. At least, that's how it would work if you could sell them on the market.

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Posted

But what you are asking for is the benefits of a non p2w mom, with no sub and a one off payment to then use their only method of subsidising to be given to you for free. Thats just wrong.

That's why sellable cash shop items are the best option. People can buy those items with in-game currency while the devs still make money because someone, somewhere, still had to buy the cash shop item in the first place. EVERYONE wins. Player A gets his nifty costume. Player B gets their silver. And player C gets the silver that player B inevitably uses to buy whatever items player C is selling. Everyone wins and nobody outside of those three players is effected in any tangible way.

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Posted

Bounty Hunter system 10/10

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Is it? What if I simply decided I won't buy any costumes anyway because I refuse to pay more money? Exact same result. However, if I am willing to pay in game currency to buy an outfit, that means someone else had to buy from the company. In that way, I am indirectly supporting the development of the game. At least, that's how it would work if you could sell them on the market.

Thats under the assumption that there are more people who want them to be sold than not. say you have 10

5 of the pop are whales and just spend $$$$$$. 20% too cheap to spend money so use in game to buy. 70% would find it frustrating, because no matter how much time, effort and money they can actually afford, they will always be behind the whales. Why? Because they just made 5b in 10 minutes.

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Thats under the assumption that there are more people who want them to be sold than not. say you have 10

5 of the pop are whales and just spend $$$$$$. 20% too cheap to spend money so use in game to buy. 70% would find it frustrating, because no matter how much time, effort and money they can actually afford, they will always be behind the whales. Why? Because they just made 5b in 10 minutes.

See this right here is exactly the problem.

Behind the whales? How? Because the whales buy their power? FROM WHAT? This gear doesn't just magically appear in their inventories dude. Someone, a player, has to actually get this gear and sell it. You wont always be behind the whales, you'll always be behind the no-lifers because it's the no-lifers who are the ones that get the fancy gear first and sell it to the whales. The whales can't buy something that doesn't bloody exist.

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That's why sellable cash shop items are the best option. People can buy those items with in-game currency while the devs still make money because someone, somewhere, still had to buy the cash shop item in the first place. EVERYONE wins. Player A gets his nifty costume. Player B gets their silver. And player C gets the silver that player B inevitably uses to buy whatever items player C is selling. Everyone wins and nobody outside of those three players is effected in any tangible way.

But there are far more people who don't want that system. I know I don't, in fact, that would put me off the game completely. I find it annoying that someone who has hundreds of disposable income can buy their way to end game gear in 10 minutes when it would take me months. If someone finds and IN game way of getting there faster, kudos to them, they used their brain and made the money effectively. But waving your wallet around as if you the dogs ballocks. Nah mate, thats just shit. 

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Posted (edited)

if you ask me,why don't the german and french players go and learn english like the rest of the world have to do, am from norway and i have learned english,it's time they do so to :) and stope bin so lazy and only speak there own language :P


just thinking out loud

And if you ask me, why dont the english players go and learn german and french like the rest of the world have to do. Dann fass dir mal an deine eigene Nase und lerne du doch Deutsch. Außerdem gibt es hier Mitarbeiter die sehr wohl mehrere Sprachen beherrschen die das normalerweiße auch machen sollten. Nur hier wird das nicht gemacht. And remember BDO and the Forum are not only designed in English. If u check out the topics u can see French, Germany and International regions. Deshalb sollten sich auch die Mitarbeiter darum kümmern solch Informationen auch in den anderen Sprachen zu Veröffentlichen. That´s just what they are indeed paid.

Edited by Cubby
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Posted

But there are far more people who don't want that system. I know I don't, in fact, that would put me off the game completely. I find it annoying that someone who has hundreds of disposable income can buy their way to end game gear in 10 minutes when it would take me months. If someone finds and IN game way of getting there faster, kudos to them, they used their brain and made the money effectively. But waving your wallet around as if you the dogs ballocks. Nah mate, thats just shit. 

Tens of thousands of people would benefit from this system. Zero people would be harmed by this system. What you're describing here isn't any tangible harm. Your gameplay isn't ACTUALLY being hurt. What it is is you being mad at a concept, an intangible concept that doesn't directly effect you. You're effectively going "well my gameplay remains unchanged but the mere knowledge that someone, somewhere, is doing something I don't like ruins the game for me". That's your problem, dude. You being a busy-body who lets their game get ruined over something so petty doesn't exactly justify you ruining the game for tens of thousands of people.

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See this right here is exactly the problem.

Behind the whales? How? Because the whales buy their power? FROM WHAT? This gear doesn't just magically appear in their inventories dude. Someone, a player, has to actually get this gear and sell it. You wont always be behind the whales, you'll always be behind the no-lifers because it's the no-lifers who are the ones that get the fancy gear first and sell it to the whales. The whales can't buy something that doesn't bloody exist.

True, but they put the effort int. They deserve to be in front. Also, yes at the start it might not be the case. But say I'm 3 months into the game, farmed enough FINALLY to get +15 gear and even if thats long, for myself thats an achievement. Bob comes along. Buys the game, levels in 2-3 days. Decides, "meh, I can't be asked to work for my shit. Heres $500, now give me my billions.' Thats just frustrating. 

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True, but they put the effort int. They deserve to be in front. Also, yes at the start it might not be the case. But say I'm 3 months into the game, farmed enough FINALLY to get +15 gear and even if thats long, for myself thats an achievement. Bob comes along. Buys the game, levels in 2-3 days. Decides, "meh, I can't be asked to work for my shit. Heres $500, now give me my billions.' Thats just frustrating. 

Three months down the road you wont bloody know the difference. Whether someone grinded for their gear or just bought it, you wont know the difference. Whether someone bought that gear with currency they grinded up or currency they got from selling cash shop items, you wont know the difference. It DOES NOT EFFECT YOU. As I said, you're letting an intangible concept ruin your game. There's no actual direct impact on you or your ability to enjoy the game, it's entirely in your head.

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Tens of thousands of people would benefit from this system. Zero people would be harmed by this system. What you're describing here isn't any tangible harm. Your gameplay isn't ACTUALLY being hurt. What it is is you being mad at a concept, an intangible concept that doesn't directly effect you. You're effectively going "well my gameplay remains unchanged but the mere knowledge that someone, somewhere, is doing something I don't like ruins the game for me". That's your problem, dude. You being a busy-body who lets their game get ruined over something so petty doesn't exactly justify you ruining the game for tens of thousands of people.

Not when I'm pvping against them? That DIRECTLY affects me. 

And your cheap-minded ness ruins it for the greater number of tens of thousands. Spend your money on a game you want to succeed! If you can't afford $10 every so often, stop buying your god damn coffee for a week.

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Posted

Ok, il take a stab at it..

  • P2W - So despite everybody and their dog agreeing they do not want any Pay 2 win features at all, you say no pay 2 win at "Launch Phase" and you also seem to of discussed and planned to implement p2w whenever you seem fit "If we decide to enable selling Cash Shop Items at a later stage, there will be control mechanisms that will prevent players from heavily profiting and gaining an advantage by repetitively selling Cash Items on the marketplace" Just so people know, KR version had controlled mechanisms at the start to stop a heavy p2w. You couldn't spend more than £500 a month and cash shop items were only a few mill each. Now costumes are worth around 70-80 mill each.. - So pretty much a big middle finger to everyone who hates p2w.
  • Server Setup - So we've gone from "No mega-server" to "no mega-server but its still an option" to finally "Still in discussion. No update yet. Sorry folks".. Ok lets just take a look at the KR version with the mega server.. It dead.. for all aspects besides playing solo and being left alone. It kills GvG as you declare war on 1 guild and you'll never actually meet them because they'll be scattered in other channels. So despite this game focusing on a GvG endgame.. we still don't know if GvG players will have a good experience or a boring one like KR.
  • Karma And PK - So you decide not to go with the old CBT system because its exploitable, even though when it was implemented in KR the game was doing incredibly well and making top 10 played mmos in KR but ok.  So you have come up with a new feature, sure its cool.. but I don't think you have fixed the issue for those who want 2 PK/OwPvP. The BH systems seems exploitable just as the CBT system, for example, PK1 wants to troll PvE1, PK1 sets bounty on PvE1, PK1 & PK2 & PK 3 all hunt PVE1, PVE1 dies and cries and leaves. Also, how are you meant to set a bounty on someone wearing a ghillie suit as you cant see their family name? I do however think the BH system would work great with a CBT1 style Pk system or a L2 system. Reason being PvE1, despite being a noob at pvp, can get revenge on the baddy for either ganking him or killing him out of a grindspot, by simply placing a bounty. 
  • Energy System - Meh. Why this was -----ed up I don't know. Yeah players could make a lot of silver by afk crafting but why not just alter the prices on the marketplace to prevent them making a bomb? Wasn't this the reason you didn't want a player driven economy and you wanted to control the prices? But instead you shoot crafters in the foot. 
  • Player to Player Trade - As you aware, there are goldsellers (trade x amount of potions ) on the RU version with the trade system. But you give us the RU version anyway xD It's not hard to implement restrictive trading to prevent these gold sellers, you could even have items not sell-able once items have been traded. Goldselling leads 2 p2w as you can buy better gear ( Gear have a big role in pvp) so its either no trading or restrictive trading.
  • Non answered issues - Gear enchanting (RNG equaling progression), Power gap within gear ( 15 - 20 ), RNG action combat ( Evasion, resistance, accuracy all big parts of the "action combat"), Is it a sandbox mmo ( too many restrictions ), Immersion breaking items (toggle certain costumes off) Loosing enchants on death etc etc

+1 Bump (liked, too bad cant put 9 more)

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Posted

And if you ask me, why dont the english players go and learn germany and french like the rest of the world have to do. Dann fass dir mal an deine eigene Nase und lerne du doch Deutsch. Außerdem gibt es hier Mitarbeiter die sehr wohl mehrere Sprachen beherrschen die das normalerweiße auch machen sollten. Nur hier wird das nicht gemacht. And remember BDO and the Forum are not only designed in English. If u check out the topics u can see French, Germany and International regions. Deshalb sollten sich auch die Mitarbeiter darum kümmern solch Informationen auch in den anderen Sprachen zu Veröffentlichen. That´s just what they are indeed paid.

lol, now some ppl have to use the very nice google translator - ich lach mich wech

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Posted

Not when I'm pvping against them? That DIRECTLY affects me. 

And your cheap-minded ness ruins it for the greater number of tens of thousands. Spend your money on a game you want to succeed! If you can't afford $10 every so often, stop buying your god damn coffee for a week.

Ok, say you're pvping against them. You see they have +19 gear. Can you tell me how they got it? Did they grind it up themselves? Did they spam trade runs and just buy it off the AH? Did they buy and sell cash shop items to buy it? Can you tell which route they took to acquire that weapon? No? Then it doesn't bloody effect you.

Tell ya what, since you clearly have plenty of money to go around how about sending me 10 dollars every so often so I can buy a costume. Because I don't have coffee, I don't eat out, the only frivolous expenditure I have is buying the occasional video game. And I do mean occasional, I.E. like one every six months. I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to buy a costume from someone who does have money to spend. Since, as I said, it doesn't effect you one way or the other.

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