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[Updated v2.0] Bounty Hunters, Karma, and Flagging Discussion

4,538 posts in this topic

Posted

I think keeping this system they have in mind would be a good idea if they reduce Karma penalty. Destroying enchants people spent weeks to collect is never a good idea.

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Posted (edited)

The bounty system can be implemented but it doesn't solve the problem, it's a nice & fun feature because we can place bounty's on specific people who get on our nerves & then have the whole server chasing them in the map that's nice & all "but" it doesn't fix the main problem that although Black Desert is an open world PvP game it doesn't have open world PvP, if I hit someone out in the open world for whatever reason this will lead to me get karma & eventually become a PKer, that's the only outcome, this must change we have repeat ourselves countless times already to the point we become sick of it & we can't get how you can't see it for yourselves that this shit is broken as fck & it must change, I repeat:

"BLACK DESERT IS AN OPEN WORLD PvP MMORPG & IT DOESN'T HAVE OPEN WORLD PvP CURRENTLY, JUST GvG."

Give us the old flagging system back that's the only way for this game to have again open world PvP, we were interested from the start about this game because it was supposed to have open world PvP & there isn't any, just GvG so out of GvG we can't PvP with random dudes we can't solve our disputes without one of us end up with karma, this shit is broken change it, think about it it's not normal how it works currently that's not how OW-PvP games work fix that shit or you will end up drive away all the PvP community, we came here to PvP out in the open world not to just do quests & kill mobs 24/7 in peace like carebears, if you want to turn this game into a PvE heaven for PvEers then give us PvP servers were real open world PvP exist, were the game is how it was supposed to be from the start.

Edited by rpgmaniac
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Posted

Copied and pasted from my one-post thread that was shut down :P

Wasn't going to post this, but I see the PKers are raging so thought I might give logic a go for a nice change of pace.

I've been chatting to a few others about the system, and I think it might be the best compromise for all of the overly-passionate factions we have in game. Time to be honest and admit that there's no 'fix' that will 100% serve each camp without pissing off the other one, So perhaps compromise is the best a level headed player can hope for? Anyway here's my reasoning:

  • At first glance, it seems to re-focus the attention of PKers on other PKers, giving them a way to PK to their hearts content without punishment, AFTER the initial infraction.
  • In that respect - strictly PVE folks have some way to get 'back' at PK players, while PK players have a way to flag and fight without accruing additional karma. All while giving them a more fun way to work off the negative karma they already have.

It'll be complicated for people to get their heads around, but based on the above, it could work. It should probably come with another Karma reduction though too imo, maybe down to 40k?

You need to take a second look...

 

 

The proposed Bounty Hunter system is flawed from the start. What this system does is require the player who has been pk'd to pay silver for a bounty on a player that killed him, that ends up rewarding another pker with positive karma. Once people actually think about this for a minute, they will realize that the best way to "hurt" the pkers who gank you is NOT to put a bounty on them. If there are no bounties, pkers can only grind mobs to regain karma. Which means only pkers who "bounty-trade" will even bother to use this system. And if they manage to put in "checks and balances" to prevent this exploit, then NO ONE will actually use the system. So it's just a waste of dev time and needs to be thrown out now. You can spend months plugging up the exploitable holes and problems with this system and in the end you're just going to have a system that's either more punishing than the current karma system, or a system that's so unexploitable and "safe" that no one bothers to use it.

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Posted

Reduce karma penalty. Make it so if person fights back, no karma loss on either side.

Done. Bounty system should be an ADDITION to an already sensible OWPvP/PK system, not the basis of it. That is idiocy.

Out of likes, so you get a quote.

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Posted

The bounty system can be implemented but it doesn't solve the problem, it's a nice & fun feature because we can place bounty's on specific people who get on our nerves & then have the whole server chasing them in the map that's nice & all "but" it doesn't fix the main problem that although Black Desert is an open world PvP game it doesn't have open world PvP, if I hit someone out in the open world for whatever reason this will lead to me get karma & eventually a PKer, that's the only outcome, this must change we have repeat ourselves countless time already to the point we become sick of it & we can't get how you can't see it for yourselves that this shit is broken as fck & it must change, I repeat:

"BLACK DESERT IS AN OPEN WORLD PvP MMORPG & IT DOESN'T HAVE OPEN WORLD PvP CURRENTLY, JUST GvG."

Give us the old flagging system back that's the only way for this game to have again open world PvP, we were interested from the start about this game because it was supposed to have open world PvP & there isn't any, just GvG so out of GvG we can't PvP with random dudes we can't solve our disputes without one of us end up with karma, this shit is broken change it, think about it it's not normal how it works currently that's not how OW-PvP games work fix that shit or you will end up drive away all the PvP community, we came here to PvP out in the open world not to just do quests & kill mobs 24/7 in peace like carebears, if you want to turn this game into a PvE heaven for PvEers then give us PvP servers were real open world PvP exist, were the game is how it was supposed to be from the start.

As much as it keeps getting brought up, I'm shocked it got like three sentences of attention and a strawman argument before they tossed it out. I'm referring to flagging of course.

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Posted

The bounty system can be implemented but it doesn't solve the problem, it's a nice & fun feature because we can place bounty's on specific people who get on our nerves & then have the whole server chasing them in the map that's nice & all "but" it doesn't fix the main problem that although Black Desert is an open world PvP game it doesn't have open world PvP, if I hit someone out in the open world for whatever reason this will lead to me get karma & eventually become a PKer, that's the only outcome, this must change we have repeat ourselves countless time already to the point we become sick of it & we can't get how you can't see it for yourselves that this shit is broken as fck & it must change, I repeat:

"BLACK DESERT IS AN OPEN WORLD PvP MMORPG & IT DOESN'T HAVE OPEN WORLD PvP CURRENTLY, JUST GvG."

Give us the old flagging system back that's the only way for this game to have again open world PvP, we were interested from the start about this game because it was supposed to have open world PvP & there isn't any, just GvG so out of GvG we can't PvP with random dudes we can't solve our disputes without one of us end up with karma, this shit is broken change it, think about it it's not normal how it works currently that's not how OW-PvP games work fix that shit or you will end up drive away all the PvP community, we came here to PvP out in the open world not to just do quests & kill mobs 24/7 in peace like carebears, if you want to turn this game into a PvE heaven for PvEers then give us PvP servers were real open world PvP exist, were the game is how it was supposed to be from the start.

this.

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Posted

i still think the karma should just be dropped to 30k per pk

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Posted (edited)

i still think the karma should just be dropped to 30k per pk

PK should be heavily penalized,
1st hit flagging giving out karma , should , not , happen , in , any , game , ever , made , that , promote , pvp .

DAUM DEVS
- hey let's make a huge OPENWORLD MMO with a endgame focus of  PVP
- nice lets make castle siege/node wars twice a week,
- nice let's make GvG declaration for big guild fights
- launches in korea

couple months later

- let's make it so people get karma from only hitting another player !
- let's make it so when you have too many negative karma YOU LOSE LITTERALY EVERYTHING
- let's make it so players actualy ONLY fights at the castle sieges and node wars twice a week
- OK !

couple months later
- damn we lost some heavy population of players we droped from 7th most played in korea to 67th place
- we should start working on a OPENWORLD PVP idea
- launches valencia 2 updates.
- too late.

Edited by Sizer
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Posted

i still think the karma should just be dropped to 30k per pk

Why have the karma system at all. Raise pvp level to 50, bring back flagging, no karma needed

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Posted (edited)

 

 

 

Well, one way is to keep PKers uninformed about having Bounties on there head. So they wont know just when to switch accounts.

But, there is definitely still a problem with being able to Kill a character on your other account yourself. Then Place a Bounty on yourself. But doing that would require a 3rd account in order to collect on it. I wonder if they would be able to stop this via IPs?

 

EDIT: This was in response to Tsurugi's post

Unless you have another account...9_9

 

New system abusable with multiple accounts though.

Account 1: PK weaker targets → get bounty placed on self

Account 2: PK anyone you want then kill Account 1 → get +karma/token/reward → profit.

Account 1 will permanently be negative karma but it doesn't matter because it's not your main account, while your main account gets free karma/rewards for toxic play.

Edited by Cooltastic

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Posted

The bounty system can be implemented but it doesn't solve the problem, it's a nice & fun feature because we can place bounty's on specific people who get on our nerves & then have the whole server chasing them in the map that's nice & all "but" it doesn't fix the main problem that although Black Desert is an open world PvP game it doesn't have open world PvP, if I hit someone out in the open world for whatever reason this will lead to me get karma & eventually become a PKer, that's the only outcome, this must change we have repeat ourselves countless times already to the point we become sick of it & we can't get how you can't see it for yourselves that this shit is broken as fck & it must change, I repeat:

"BLACK DESERT IS AN OPEN WORLD PvP MMORPG & IT DOESN'T HAVE OPEN WORLD PvP CURRENTLY, JUST GvG."

Give us the old flagging system back that's the only way for this game to have again open world PvP, we were interested from the start about this game because it was supposed to have open world PvP & there isn't any, just GvG so out of GvG we can't PvP with random dudes we can't solve our disputes without one of us end up with karma, this shit is broken change it, think about it it's not normal how it works currently that's not how OW-PvP games work fix that shit or you will end up drive away all the PvP community, we came here to PvP out in the open world not to just do quests & kill mobs 24/7 in peace like carebears, if you want to turn this game into a PvE heaven for PvEers then give us PvP servers were real open world PvP exist, were the game is how it was supposed to be from the start.

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Posted (edited)

 

  9 hours ago, CM_Jouska said:

 Bounties are placed on Family Names, you will not be able to use multiple characters to exploit the system

 

 

False as i have 2 accounts, you have stated you cant have 2 account running on 1 computer fine ill add a 2nd computer = system exploted 
there alots way this system can be abuse or is broken if people think outside the box 

Edited by Selvaria Bles

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Posted

As much as it keeps getting brought up, I'm shocked it got like three sentences of attention and a strawman argument before they tossed it out. I'm referring to flagging of course.

Thrown out?  I wouldn't assume that. It seems that the KR dev team is willing to go "Farther" to add more to the game. Its a shame it got countered with such a poor argument (seeing as its still a issue on any flagging system.)
But out of the question?  Naa.
Tossed out? Naa.

Hopefully the next reply may include issues we haven't discovered. OR they realize its a viable option AS WELL.

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Posted (edited)

I'm just going to keep eternally posting this video until you guys understand why exactly allowing you to kill whoever you want with no consequence is a bad idea considering this game isn't just going for PvP appeal, because yes there are actually other things in this sandbox game than killing others:

 

Edited by Rose Vilehart

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Posted

PK should be heavily penalized,1st hit flagging giving out karma , should , not , happen , in , any , game , ever , made , that , promote , pvp .

then ur also for high Guild War upkeep as long as the other guild doesnt also declare war to urs? IMO non-consensual Guild War is also just non-consensual pk but as a flatrate without enchantment loss.

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Posted

I'm just going to keep eternally posting this video until you guys understand why exactly allowing you to kill whoever you want with no consequence is a bad idea considering this game isn't just going for PvP appeal

 

You're so wrong. This game is literally designed around PvP. Every PvE element points towards a PvP endgame.

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Posted

 

 Bounties are placed on Family Names, you will not be able to use multiple characters to exploit the system

 

 

False as i have 2 accounts, you have stated you cant have 2 account running on 1 computer fine ill add a 2nd computer = system exploted 

This is a issue with no real way to get around.

BUT let me put things into better perspective. 

 

The Dev team is in KR.
To create a BDO account you need a KR KSN. Which is a real ID you only get one.
Grasping this might seem easy for us. But its very possible Devs didn't realize this.

And while yes it is "exploitable" its also
detectable. Heck if they find conclusive evidence that you own 2 accounts and are cheating the Karma system, BAM account ban would be a solid deterrent. 

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Posted

I'm just going to keep eternally posting this video until you guys understand why exactly allowing you to kill whoever you want with no consequence is a bad idea considering this game isn't just going for PvP appeal, because yes there are actually other things in this sandbox game than killing others:

 

And I'm going to continue to inform you; ignorant, dumb, stupid, and unwilling to even read.

No one here is advocating NO punishment, NO consequence.

This adds more consequence, this adds more interaction.

SO WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

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Posted

This is a issue with no real way to get around.
BUT let me put things into better perspective. 

 

The Dev team is in KR.
To create a BDO account you need a KR KSN. Which is a real ID you only get one.
Grasping this might seem easy for us. But its very possible Devs didn't realize this.

And while yes it is "exploitable" its also
detectable. Heck if they find conclusive evidence that you own 2 accounts and are cheating the Karma system, BAM account ban would be a solid deterrent. 

u dont need any real ID here so this argument doesnt really count for our version.

having multiple accounts running on multiple computers cant be detected as cheating coz it could be that i am not living alone here ?

 

anyway i think if u set up the bounty with ur Karma instead of Silver then i think its not that much exploitable. (only if u have to have 0 or higher in karma after setting up or u again could create multiple chars and pay their karma till -1kk)

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Posted

what the actual **** go play hellokittyonline.

lol

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Posted (edited)

You're so wrong. This game is literally designed around PvP. Every PvE element points towards a PvP endgame.

Is it really......that beyond you to consider for a second that maybe this sandbox game, keywords being SANDBOX Has content that isn't designed around PvP and that endgame isn't the only thing in the game?

This game is going for wide appeal and world level freedom, some people just want to explore, others just want to achieve something and the roleplayers just mostly want to talk, yes the endgame is designed around PvP, but PvP=/= PK'ing, if you let too many killers populate a game you turn away a wider audience which is a Death Sentence for an upcoming MMO like this, think outside of the PvP bubble for a second and consider that not everyone wants to PvP and less want to PK, the PvP community for MMO games is FAR too small to support a game solely based on them alone and there is a lot of evidence for this.

So please just try actually considering that not everyone will play this game for the same reasons you do and that the more people playing, the better so that the devs have more money to IMPROVE the game as time marches on.

Edited by Rose Vilehart

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Posted (edited)

@CM_Jouska

Two questions (maybe I missed that) : Will the char / family name be sort of flagged if there is a bounty on them, or do I have to go check at the mentioned NPC's to find out about that?

Plus, can I put a bounty on any family I want to, or just if I got killed by them? I can't put my finger on it, but if the first option would come in play, I smell various ways of abusing this system.

Edited by Aysnvaust

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Posted (edited)

 

This is a issue with no real way to get around.
BUT let me put things into better perspective. 

 

The Dev team is in KR.
To create a BDO account you need a KR KSN. Which is a real ID you only get one.
Grasping this might seem easy for us. But its very possible Devs didn't realize this.

And while yes it is "exploitable" its also detectable. Heck if they find conclusive evidence that you own 2 accounts and are cheating the Karma system, BAM account ban would be a solid deterrent. 

first this is NA/EU not KR dont need KSN 

Edited by Selvaria Bles

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Posted

I think gankers just want their cake and eat it too..

The original system sucked because you can grief people with MPK (letting monsters do their dirty work, or just make them almost die to prevent grief them)

And since this isn't a tab target game. Wide aoe swings and skills is also an issue.  So all you L2 people, it doesn't work!

An Enhanced bounty system is a novel idea, even with potential work around. If It takes 4 accounts to work the system or a Karma trade guild. So be it. It'll just create more drama in the PvP community and get itself rolfstomped and solved itself.

Karma bounty works by making PvPer stick to PvPer. Bascially the Occasional PvP would go after PvEers but eventually get dragged into infighting by their own kind.

I think to prevent it spiraling into obscurity, it needs stacking abilities. Such that you stack Bounties on a player, to get bonus rewards. That way the more hated they are, the bigger the hunt, and the less ways for people to abused the bounty system and more to use it properly.

If say the infamous video of a certain Ranger harassing the world boss people. He would get 10-20 stacks of bounty on him, and he would be hunted down by half the server for those crazy rewards.

So everyone gets their fill of drama in the end.

 

Though yes it is a problem because you might punished out all the PKers (which may not be a bad thing really, but eh). So to keep it somewhat fresh, you should give rewards for what I would term "Blood Red" players. Maybe have a NPC that rewards High unique kill count red players  with things, Like vanity costumes. killing the same player over and over again to reward grief would not be able to be used in this case.

 

Assassin system doesn't work that well since the key point to the bounty system is getting Jailed

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Posted

@2 accounts abuse of bounty system, this is why you will still lose enchantments/gear when killed with negative karma...

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