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[Updated v2.0] Bounty Hunters, Karma, and Flagging Discussion

4,538 posts in this topic

Posted

I love it honestly, Bounty Hunting is some of the best stuff and it gives the world a realistic atmosphere. I'd keep it limited to those whom are negative karma though given you'd need to have done -SOMETHING- wrong for a Bounty to be placed on your head, if you're just walking the streets I doubt they'd randomly have bounties on you.

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Posted

Housing.

You have to put cooking and alchemy things in the house, no other way to do it. Cooking and Alchemy both give buffs for PvP. Also there are different pieces of furniture in the house that give you a PvP buff as well.

 

So try again

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Posted

 

Penalties for killing is not open-world and only servers one side, the PVE side. Its not a answer that caters to both play-styles.

have you played L2 ? Penalties for Pkin is go red gain karma and have the possibility to lose armor and inventory items if you get killed by another player my suggesting drop inventory items not gear and go to jail so its a double penalty

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Posted

Suggestions for the bounty system:

Tie the Boubty hunter reward track to the Amity system. When the Boubty Hunter speaks to an NPC that a Bounty target has also spoken to in the last week that NPC will trigger a condition in which the target's general location is shown on the bounty hunter's map. The higher the Amity:bounty track level ratio the more specific the tracking located on the map becomes.

A bounty hunter in the same game region as his target will automatically be switched into the same channel as their target to prevent channel stealth exploits.

Bounty contracts are purchased with positive karma. 

Three types of Bounty contracts can be purchased.

1. Specific bounty (the lowest karma price). This contract allows the bounty hunter to engage only the chosen PK'er and receive a bounty reward.

2. General Bounty (This has a higher price than a specific bounty contract) The Boubty Hunter can attack any player in the same area as themselves who is on the global bounty list. However these kills yield much smaller rewards than a specific contract. General bounty contracts can only be purchased by bounty hunters who have achieved certain bounty hunter reward track requirements.

5. Master bounty. (Highest price) This type of bounty contract allows the bounty hunter to either attack from a list of up to 5 specific targets for full Boubty reward, or engage a random global bounty for lowered rewards.

A Boubty Hunter can only hold a limited number of contracts based on their bounty hunter reward track. These contracts can be of any mixture of the above types of contract. (as long as the bounty hunter is allowed to purchase that type due to their reward level).

A bounty hunter can not initiate combat with an AoE attack. 

The reward level of any given Boubty is affected by the total HP pool of the Boubty when PVP is first flagged. 100-90% HP full reward. 89-30% hp only partial rewards. If the bounty is below 30% HP when PVP is initiated, that attack does not qualify for a reward and still uses up a bounty contract.

Local regions and bounty gmbunter rewards. Completing bounties in a region will grant you positive reputation in that region which will give increased bonuses when dealing with NPC's from that region. This allows for a type of "Local Hero" system to organically evolve.

Bounty seals should be labeled Gold Silver, or Bronze. Gold seals are only granted to specific or master specific contract completions (The battle was fully honorable with PVP initiating with the target above 90% HP), Silver contracts gained for general bounties and specific bounties at a reduced reward level), bronze bounties are for general bounties at a reduced reward level.

Losing bounty hunter reputation. Accumulation of negative karma equal to=5 PK will result in reduction of that hunter's present Boubty Hunter rep status. This will force bounty hunters to return to town every five kills and collect their karma/seal rewards to prevent bounty killing sprees.

Guilds should be able to post bounties on players that have killed members. If a guild has placed a bounty on a player, this counts as an instead of situation. Guild bounties are not an additional bounty and they are placed as a service to the guildmember (this will usually be done by large rich guilds, or by guilds trying to support a member who is short on silver)

 

How to place a bounty:

Speaking to a bunty hunter NPC will bring up a choice between:

1. Place a bounty

2. Purchase a contract.

3. Collect a bounty.

When placing a bounty, any player who has PK'ed you in the last day will be ona list with checkboxes. Choose all that you want to place and hit ok. Those players are then placed on the global bounty list.

When purchasing a contract a randomized list of potential bounties is given to the bounty hunter. Players who have killed a friend or guildmate are placed higher priority, then it randomizes on rank by negative karma.

Players on friendisits, guildmates, allied guilds, or characters on a seperate account owned by the same individual and that account's social network are prohibted from collecting bouties on ther friends and guildmates...

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Posted

When you get pk'd you currently lose 2% exp. That at higher levels is a huge pain in the ass.

Understood - I havent heard any one who loves to pvp ask for the right to pk. Its truly not about pk'ing, but about the freedom of a sand-box for me. I also agree that the 2% is huge - Again, too many penalties in this game that segregate the two different play-styles.

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Posted

In addition to the bounty system, to balance things out for those players who feel they are being harmed by having penalties for random PK.

Create an assassin system.

While bounties are driven by NPC's assassinations are guild based.

A guild can train assassins. An player can become an assassin by taking an assassination contract. A player can not become an assassin unless they have a specific amount of negative karma.

Types of assassination contracts.

1. Specific assassination. This type of assassination requires the lowest amount of negative karma to acquire, but yields the highest reward. 

2. General assassination, these contracts are completed by killing one of a specific group of players, based on class, race, region, or guild affiliation. An assassin must have high negative karma to acquire a general contract.

3. Master assassin contracts. These contracts provide a reward for a single specific assassination target in addition to an additional 2 general targets killed within 3 minutes of PVP being initiated. Master assassins require a VERY HIGH negative karma pool to acquire.

All contracts yield rewards as chosen by the guild that creates the contract. This is in addition to assassin reputation which is a set standard in game for each type of contract.

Benefits to assassin reward track. 

1. Bonus to all stats in PVP and PVE combat. The higher the assassin is on the reward track the higher the PvP/PVE combat bonus.

2. Assassins are allowed to engage in PVP with any player actively carrying a bounty hunter contract. An assassin that kills a bounty hunter gains assassin rep.

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Posted

The biggest thing that I've noticed is most PvE and PvP players don't like this. I think it's pretty sad that they talked about appeasing both PvE and PvP players (which made everyone thing two region servers), but now we're all having to settle for a system that doesn't work.

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Posted (edited)

 

Hey, I haven't read through all thirteen pages to see if I'm suggesting something someone else has also brought up... but anyway, I think that this system should be in the game along with a "flagging" feature, just so that when you see a hostile person, even if they haven't killed anybody yet, you can tell. I like TERA's system where anybody who is flagged but hasn't killed anyone has a purple nameplate and anybody that has killed someone is red, so you can know at a glance who is hostile. It's like a random event that adds tension to your otherwise "peaceful" mass murder of monsters. Also giving an incentive to go out and hunt down people that PK others is awesome, and having a system that rewards that is something that's been missing from a lot of games that have open world PvP like Archeage (which is the example everyone is using). Yes, I understand that Archeage has a crime system and that kills get you infamy. However, unless you write down the name of the person that killed you or have an eidetic memory there's no way you're going to remember that a player named Kaguramishi killed you at level 34 for a tradepack and from now on you're going to kill them whenever you see them. Besides the only incentive to PK in Archeage was when somebody was doing trading runs or in order to gain the required amount of crime points to go pirate, and having a bounty system would make open world PvP that much more fun.

Now, if you're going to have this system in the game you REALLY need to make sure the devs execute it well. There should be a leaderboard for those who are the most prolific bounty hunters (and titles and maybe a costume or a badge by their name, something that will make this person really recognizable, so that if you have a bounty on you and you see one of the top bounty hunters chasing you, there's actual tension) and for those who are the most infamous PKers (those who are able to survive bounties or kill bounty hunters chasing them). I do agree that there should never be a penalty for a successful self defense as someone with a bounty over your head, but there should also be some kind of incentivized system for both sides.

Also, I know it would be hard to implement... but I can envision this amazing and immersive system where you go to a bounty NPC and pick up a bounty and track your mark through different zones working on clues and actually hunting and tracking your mark until you finally find them and take them down or get taken out yourself, building a reputation for yourself or for the person you were tracking down. Maybe I've been reading too many Russian litRPGs but whatever you do with the open world PvP system, as long as it's immersive and fun, not tedious and underwhelming (I'm talking gameplay AND rewards here) then all will be well. 

Tera was the first action mmo but the pk on lowbies were annoying and there wasnt much of a penalty while red if you PKed  except breaking crystals GVG was great if you like the 1 fps while doing nexus lol. i head archeage jail system seeing that BDO adding it to their game for Valencia patch i think it be nice to put in during launch mabe adding 2 jail areas

Edited by Selvaria Bles

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Posted

You have to put cooking and alchemy things in the house, no other way to do it. Cooking and Alchemy both give buffs for PvP. Also there are different pieces of furniture in the house that give you a PvP buff as well.

 

So try again

I would say fishing but then you would probably say "it lets you get money for pvp stuff"

You seem to assume I'm against the PvP endgame, which im not, from the start I have pointed out that I am against PK'ing but for some reason in your head they are the exact same thing.
Frankly I'm tired of arguing with you, you seem to despise the idea that people other than PvP'ers will play, enjoy and get a say in the games development so there isnt really any talking to be had here since it will always end the same way, I'm just glad the devs seem to be standing firm on not letting PK'ers run wild.

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Posted

Housing.

wrong, you can have items in your house that gives you timed buffs wich would help you fighting other players

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Posted

You have to put cooking and alchemy things in the house, no other way to do it. Cooking and Alchemy both give buffs for PvP. Also there are different pieces of furniture in the house that give you a PvP buff as well.

 

So try again

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Posted

That double post saying the exact same thing was very relevant to the discussion and needed, thank you.

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Posted

I would say fishing but then you would probably say "it lets you get money for pvp stuff"

You seem to assume I'm against the PvP endgame, which im not, from the start I have pointed out that I am against PK'ing but for some reason in your head they are the exact same thing.
Frankly I'm tired of arguing with you, you seem to despise the idea that people other than PvP'ers will play, enjoy and get a say in the games development so there isnt really any talking to be had here since it will always end the same way, I'm just glad the devs seem to be standing firm on not letting PK'ers run wild.

You're tired of arguing with me because I consistently prove that you're wrong. I think people are blowing up how many griefers there will be and that some people's definition of PKing and PvP are different from each other. I'm not saying that people who don't PvP shouldn't have a say in the game, but they definitely shouldn't have much to say about how PvP works in the game. If all I do is fish in town, why should I have anything to say about how one person fights another person over a farming spot?

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Posted

I love this idea, and I'm 100% for it. I am a huge PvP fan, and It'd be sad to see PK go or force players away. This is a good way for the PvEr's and PvPer's to use each other. Rather than a hate for each segment of the community, it can work as a balancing act between them. Love it!

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Posted

That double post saying the exact same thing was very relevant to the discussion and needed, thank you.

wrong, you can have items in your house that gives you timed buffs wich would help you fighting other players

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Posted

I like this system, that way PVE players won't get senselessly bullied by PK players.

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Posted (edited)

people Blowing this out of proportion, okay seriously question what the % people will PK how will bounty hunter work if really PK is small 10% or 25.  pk other players its not a big thing to waste resource on a bounty hunt system instead take the L2 pvp/pk/karma system the Valencia jail system info/code add the possibility inventory drops breaking crystal  add it to the main launch, the only  reward system for anyone is having the satisfaction of sending a pker to jail like in SAO if you don't watch the anime lol  

reason people pk in the game 
1. eepeen

2.someone annoying

3. past game issues from other games aion tera or AA ect

4. people in my spot AKA (Sheldon Copper's) 

3.keeps killing my mobs i need to finish my quest and GTFO of the area

 

Edited by Selvaria Bles

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Posted (edited)

This idea you guys and the developers came up with...

 

doesn't seem to actually support bounty hunting in the long run. I looked through a couple pages and realized people aren't totally looking down the road at the repercussions of this. As a member of a bounty hunting style guild (Divine), I took a bit to think out this system to its limits.

 

Basics people must of thought of:

Bounty hunting would possibly eventually die out...

Players could bounty the "wrong" types of players you're going for here... As in this could backfire on PvE players or every player, not just PK'ers.

Profit to doing this is revenge and nothing but. If you're trying to make PKing justified, this is just setting up paths of revenge (under the name of a career) to keep those pissed off from raging from being killed.

There's much else I could state, but first, I want to see how they carry this out. 

Edited by DyeHart
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Posted

This idea you guys and the developers came up with...

 

doesn't seem to actually support bounty hunting in the long run. I looked through a couple pages and realized people aren't totally looking down the road at the repercussions of this. As a member of a bounty hunting style guild (Divine), I took a bit to think out this system to its limits.

Bounty hunting would possibly eventually die out...

Players could bounty the "wrong" types of players you're going for here... As in this could backfire on PvE players or every player, not just PK'ers.

Profit to doing this is revenge and nothing but. If you're trying to make PKing justified, this is just setting up paths of revenge (under the name of a career) to keep those pissed off from raging from being killed.

There's much else I could state, but first, I want to see how they carry this out. 

I think bounty hunting itself could be a neat system to attach. But I don't think it's a PvP fix, which is what they're presenting it as.

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Posted (edited)

This idea you guys and the developers came up with...

 

doesn't seem to actually support bounty hunting in the long run. I looked through a couple pages and realized people aren't totally looking down the road at the repercussions of this. As a member of a bounty hunting style guild (Divine), I took a bit to think out this system to its limits.

Bounty hunting would possibly eventually die out...

Players could bounty the "wrong" types of players you're going for here... As in this could backfire on PvE players or every player, not just PK'ers.

Profit to doing this is revenge and nothing but. If you're trying to make PKing justified, this is just setting up paths of revenge (under the name of a career) to keep those pissed off from raging from being killed.

There's much else I could state, but first, I want to see how they carry this out. 

exactly my point bounty want be a issue anyways not many will pk unless given a reason too

 

Edited by Selvaria Bles

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Posted

I think there are many issues trying to make any sort of PK system be meaningful. It is something that needs to out and out be punished in some fashion if caught and karma needs to be built up and if a guard sees a player they are attacked and sent to jail and the like and lose play time (archeage did poorly on jail making it WAY to easy to escape) Trying to make PK meaningful literally only leads to more people PK'ing which leads to more people griefing which leads to you losing a larger player base that do not wish to partake in non consensual PVP.

PK is not and has never actually been a form of PVP as they are never targeting people that are on equal footing with them and unless you literally lock down the ability to attack other players outside of say the soft level cap of 50 you create more problems then you solve.The suggestion that PK needs to be meaningful or even friendly to the people doing it is in and of itself ridiculous though. Yeah you'll get a few happy people about it, but you will get WAY more people that are massively unhappy about it and you create a rather volatile community in doing so. 

Take this from someone that has been playing these games since meridian 59 was in beta and did MUDS and GMUDS for a year or two prior - PK is bad especially in the world of today where we literally do not have the community that cares about policing for the overall asshattery that is caused by PK players. I have never once seen them not take the opportunity to grief players left and right and suggesting they can "refresh" karma simply by killing another pk'er is actually going to end up with groups of friends that just kill each other to refresh their karma as they go out and kill. 

You need to limit the impact of non consensual PVP in mmorpgs today given the volatility of the communities in question and designing systems to encourage it is actually a very bad long term move and will discourage a large portion of people from playing the game because we've all dealt with pk'ers before. PK is usually tantamount to murder in these games where you get ganked by a higher level player and can't do anything about them. Yeah paying may seem like a good idea, but they still need to be discouraged from doing it in the first place, if a bounty is collected for instance that player should get a time out in jail for a bit etc not just lose their karma and need to kill a pker as it just leads to a vicious cycle type system. 

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Posted

I personally like the Bounty Hunter idea however, the only problem I see with it is the reward. I've read the Diary thread concerning Karma being a reward however, what I see with this being a problem is that more or less, the only ones I could imagine see completing these bounties are ones with low Karma and so forth. I for one as a more of, PvE oriented person, wouldn't care so much about Karma as it's not my focus.

Of course, if this was covered or already explained, I do apologize sincerely in advance.

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Posted

I think bounty hunting itself could be a neat system to attach. But I don't think it's a PvP fix, which is what they're presenting it as.

it doesn't fix pvp, it fixed pve cries from being killed by pker.

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Posted

I personally like the Bounty Hunter idea however, the only problem I see with it is the reward. I've read the Diary thread concerning Karma being a reward however, what I see with this being a problem is that more or less, the only ones I could imagine see completing these bounties are ones with low Karma and so forth. I for one as a more of, PvE oriented person, wouldn't care so much about Karma as it's not my focus.

Of course, if this was covered or already explained, I do apologize sincerely in advance.

why would you care about bounty hunting then if you are a pve player, why would you want a change in the reward for pvp ?
gosh.

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Posted (edited)

I'm not totally against this system. It could be an interesting addition, given the right ruleset. However, and that's the important point, it won't protect PvEers from being ganked. Not in the least. Instead it's the perfect system to provoke even more PK/PvP. Let's say I create a guild explicitly dedicated to PvP in BTO, cause my heart beats all for it. So I say: "I want war ... freakin' EV-ERY-WHERE ... ! Who's with me? Bunch of other people? Fine. So go forth then and PK like you have never PKed before! Collect bounties on all your heads, as much as possible and then let them come to us. Let us make war, let us drown this world in sorrow and blood!" For PK/PvP lovers this is just the thing to get what they are looking for.

If you want to prevent PvEers from being ganked, there is only one sound solution and it is called 'PvP toggle'. Let the players decide if they want to PvP or not. No one would be hurt by that. And no, there is no single possibility to exploit this, if you implement it properly. That contains forcing the PvP flag to 'on' whenever a player enters a siege, or having been challenged to a node war, or whatever mechanic does absolutely need PvP. This way it's simply a question of risk vs reward for every PvEer. You want to have big gains? You eventually will have to expose yourself to PvP. You want to play it safe? You can, but you will progress more slowly.

What could possibly be wrong with leaving this decision entirely up to the players?

Edited by Juuken
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