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[Updated v2.0] Bounty Hunters, Karma, and Flagging Discussion

4,538 posts in this topic

Posted

bounty system +1. Add that to the game, PK now sucks, i cant kill fking authist mages taking my spot and we HAVENT ANY PVP INGAME YET further than the fking arenas.

 

Add bounty system.

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Posted (edited)

Happened to me yesterday too... how does it feels? i was actually going to quit the game for that because NA and EU player indirectly requested to KILL pk and they actually made it... now i'm here trying to get rid of -1.000.000 karma... It's good that daum listen to players but it's bad that they listen the bad stuff...

It sucked i got negative karma playing with guildmates in just a super small fight with some people - didn't guild war because that takes too long and came out of it negative karma and losing enchants instantly ruined all the fun i was having.

Edited by Fakeshrooms
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Posted

It sucked i got negative karma playing with guildmates in just a super small fight with some people - didn't guild war because that takes too long and came out of it negative karma and losing enchants instantly ruined all the fun i was having.

Ikr... I just hope they will understand that this kind of system is ruining all the fun of some random fights... it's stupid that to have some pvp you have to GvG or hope to find someone in arena...

I was just reading the karma system again and i just noticed that there is nothing about enchant loss in the penalities... Why in the world we got our enchant drop than? Is it a bug?

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Posted

raise the penalty to 4% xp at least if he dont flag

Fair enough. Raise it for PvP death across the board.  

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Posted

@CM_Jouska,

Please Release THIS system NOW!!!

And this karmasystem with THIS Penaltis!!!

We want to play OW PvP and dont want to loos our :

  • "Losing Enchant levels of equipped items when you have negative karma."

So put it in!

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Posted

Giving PKer's and gankers who constantly kill other players the ability to walk around in safe zones in bullshit. If you're out there murdering people, you shouldn't have a safe zone. Negative karma needs to keep you flagged and not allow you to have any sort of safe zone.

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Posted

Plz implement this system. Losing enchants is the worst that can happen. This is so punitive, PvP is dead for now. And if PvP is dead, the game is dead

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Posted

Any new news on this? I want this new system so much. :P

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Posted

There was alot of controversy the first few pages hopefully that hasn't discouraged them. 

Release the system it's logically better then what we have (I'm sure you guys already know this) we've got to test it and can make improvements from there.

People play 30$ for this game and they think they're entitled to the entirety of it, Daum has to cater to all players not just PvE or PvP. Release this version see how the community reacts as a whole and ignore the kids who think the game was made just for them. This can be a great addition to the game, let's see!

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Posted

I really like this idea, I'd like to be able to PvP in the world with out being negatively effected too much. plus it seems like fun way of encouraging PvPers to fight PvPers, not to mention the hunting some one down part would be fun too.

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Posted

Greetings,

We would like to have your input on the proposed Bounty Hunter system from PM Diary 2.2
This idea is an approach to cope with our current PK system and give a proper environment for players interested in PK. 
Below I will give a brief overview of the system.
 

Bounty Hunter System

Hidden Content

 

Karma & Flagging v2.0

Hidden Content

ENCHANTMENT LOSS BEING REMOVED IS BULLCRAP I JUST GOT KILLED BY GUARDS AND LOST A LEVEL ON MY HELMET AND A LEVEL ON MY GLOVES WTF ALSO MY WEAPON DROPPED 2 LEVELS DUE TO BEING KILLED

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Posted

ENCHANTMENT LOSS BEING REMOVED IS BULLCRAP I JUST GOT KILLED BY GUARDS AND LOST A LEVEL ON MY HELMET AND A LEVEL ON MY GLOVES WTF ALSO MY WEAPON DROPPED 2 LEVELS DUE TO BEING KILLED

you are so dumb coz u even dont see that this system isnt in game yet.

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Posted (edited)

PVP is broken, why? because group PK attack singles players and 5 on 1 this probably is not a fair fight. I'm pissed because you can not even do quests normally would not be killed by such groups. Those players should feel the negative effects of such conduct I understand 1 vs 1, but that someone has a chance to beat the 5 players at once?

What should change in PVP
- Should be not available to the level 60 because you can not normally play, and do quests (or should be an option that we want to play only PVE and not be able to be attacked by other players and attack other players to level 60) because how much times you can be PK by such groups?

- PK should receive greater punishment for killing players (especially if they do it in groups)maybe reducing the drop rates of items, reduction of luck, a significant reduction in energy recovery, the sales price at the merchants reduced by half, reducing the gain exp

- Karma should be even slower to recover

 
 
nobody likes to be gangbang so something has to change

 

Edited by firefly

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Posted

Just update to Valencia part 2 directly would be fine 

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Posted

@CM_Jouska any update on this? Is it being worked on? Are you not considering it anymore? Please keep us updated.

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Posted

@CM_Jouska any update on this? Is it being worked on? Are you not considering it anymore? Please keep us updated.

I agree, almost two months passed since we last had an update regarding this new system.

I would also love to hear some news if there has been any progress.

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Posted

this system seems alot better then the current karma system..

 

Also.. why is daum not in favor for rewarding a pvp'er? by killing others?

 

You keep continue with punishing for doing pvp.. yet you do not reward them if they are succesfull with a playerkill

this makes no sense to me

 

Let a player decide if he wants to go the pvp way yes or no.. ( which is in this system) but also reward them..

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Posted

@CM_Jouska I think this is a good start - but there are a few other issues as well.  Originally I thought about posting a new thread, but figured this might be a better place overall.  Here's a little feedback from someone stuck as a red player...

So first, a little background:

My first kill was retaliation for stealing all my farm.  No biggie, afterwards turned out they were pretty cool peeps and we ended up grouping.  Fast forward a bit - a guildie and I run into a group who had previously attacked us.  We kill them in retaliation.  Lose a huge chunk of karma.  Start farming manshas and rhutums.  A guy charges me, I proceed to kick the crap out of him.  He respawns and comes at me again - only this time just before he dies another player rushes in next to him (I'm assuming to help him) and my next attack slaughters both of them.  Lose another huge chunk of karma.  At this point I've gone from 300k to around 30k or so.

The very next day in the middle of doing a guild quest to kill rhutums two archers start attacking guild mates.  Mind you, there's no guild war going or anything like that.  Like any other reasonable person I jump in to keep the guildies from being killed.  I kill the archers.  They respawn, come back, repeat.  They came back around 6 times or so - after all is said and done, they finally give up attacking us.  When I get back to town, guards slaughter me attempting to access storage.  Apparently in the process of defending guildmates I'd managed to hit -70k or so.

I figure best to go grind out some mobs then.  Start grinding - while not gaining much karma due to being partied and low and behold someone decided I made a juicy target.  They attack, and we kick the crap out of him - but he runs off before we get the kill.  It happened fast enough though that when he returned he sent a message first saying he didn't want any trouble.  No worries, I'm not looking for a fight... or loot... just some karma and xp.  So I continue with the grinding and he goes his own merry way.  Along the way I end up dying, and go to respawn.  Clicking on the nearest node drops me in the middle of the rhutum camp surrounded by a group of 5 already killing other players.  I attempt to run, but die instantly.  4% xp loss total so far.  Finally respawn and get back to where I was farming.  Another death due to rubberbanding/desync.  6%.

A bit later I decide to call it for the night.  Make a quick trip to Trent (a horrible idea) throw some stuff in storage and log out.

I log back in, go to get on my horse and I'm dead. 8%.  Respawn, get as close to the gates as I think I can get away with - turns out it isn't far enough out.  The same group kills me again. 10%.  Finally get far enough out to mount my horse and take off.  As I close in towards a farming area, guess who's there waiting?  The same group.  12%.  Decide the area isn't worth it.  Head out to an area I figure will be abandoned - turns out it isn't but there's only a single person there.  

At this point I'd learned if you have negative karma and defend yourself you lose more.  If they kill you, you also lose 2%.  The person farming the mobs there seemed content (at first) to kill mobs.  I kept to myself and worked on grinding a small group.  Once they'd killed all their mobs guess where they went?  I decided the karma and xp loss wasn't worth it and bailed.  Of course it wasn't over either - they called in guildies caught up with me and killed me anyway.  14% loss so far.  

I respawn, and at this point I'm getting pretty annoyed.  Screw it, the least I can do is get some revenge for being ganked.  I go back, and kill the witch for ganking me.  The hope was that after fighting back, I might be able to offset the karma loss by at least being able to grind.  Nope.  They called in reinforcements again - and I wasn't able to meet up with mine quick enough. 16%.

Again, I decide things are getting out of hand.  Now I'm sitting at around -100k.  Let's try grinding somewhere nobody else will be.  I head to noob town.  Of course, the mobs there only provide 4 karma a pop, which would take me around 140k kills to recover.  Not worth it.  Head to a shrine I don't see to many people there and start grinding away.  I manage to get it down to around -80k and a berserker decides the entire shrine is "his."  Well, what can I do about it?  Run in circles and just avoid his attacks I guess.  So I do.  Eventually he slips up, and my guildie didn't get a heal off quick enough. 18%.  Trying to avoid the previous scenario of spawning in the middle of my character being -----d, I buy an instares when he's on the opposite side of the room and book it.

I round a corner, and look an archer!  CC, GG, and 20% xp loss.  Eventually he leaves, so I continue grinding.  Next thing I know, he's back with two of his peeps.  Time to bail... but 3 people spamming CC on a single target never ends well. 22%.  I leave, take a smoke break and just relax for a bit.  In the meantime my guildie had let his guildies continue to wail on him - dropping them to just before going red.  Finally they leave, and I can get back to grinding.  Again the berserker shows back up.  Again I just run circles around him waiting.  He continues to (occasionally) land a hit in.  Then I screw up.  I'd walked him right into a group of mobs, and didn't account for desync.  As he goes to hit me I teleport... and all of a sudden am back where I started - only this time being slammed.  Dead.  24%.

24%, and still sitting at around -80k.  You know what though?  I was making good headway, it might be worth it to just fight back at this point.  I mean, I've already lost 24% being unable to run, spawning in a group of hostiles, etc.  If we can get this guy to leave, it might be worth a small karma loss I figure.  If he attacks, I'll just defend myself.  So I do... and hit -120k.  I avoid that xp loss, and get back to grinding.  Guy left, and I can finally get back to it.  So now here I am grinding my karma back... knocked it down to -80k again and guess who's back?

Enough is enough.  I declare a guild war - worst case scenario, I die.  I keep my xp... assuming these guys are the ones that kill me.  Of course, guild wars take time to be implemented.  He attacks me, I stun and GTFO.  Round a corner, and another archer.  CC and dead before I can respond. 26%.

So, although more happened that's the gist of it.  I've lost probably around 30-32% xp so far.  I haven't gone after other players except in self defense and two instances of screw you for killing me a couple times.  24 hours after going red, my karma is 3x lower than it was from defending myself - in most cases I avoided attacking and only attempted CC to get away.

The problem:

The problem as I see it, is losing karma killing people who insist on repetitively targeting your allies.  That put me negative.  Defending myself put me further negative.  Grinding in areas with even a marginal amount of karma per kill (I'm looking at almost 2000 to get a clean slate) is suicide.  If you're lucky you can get a few kills and bail.  My experience (thus far) has been if anyone in a decent sized guild sees you and you don't log off you're dead.  If you try to defend yourself you dig your hole deeper - but here's the catch.  Defend yourself and your karma gets worse.  Don't defend your self and you get to enjoy watching yourself losing every bit of xp you've gained.  Now I get the intent of the system.  Here's the thing though.  All my kills have been one on one or one on two (of them).  Most of my deaths have been one on two+.  I've been spawn killed numerous times, in town AND the wilderness, and literally cannot go anywhere without being attacked by larger groups.  I cannot farm to fix my karma (unless I want to spend the next year trying to kill 200k noob mobs) without essentially losing the majority of my xp and all of my gear in the process.  Worst part yet, this situation was the result of trying to defend friends who were under attack - not going out of my way to murder or attacking helpless people - it was for attacking people who were already trying to murder someone else.

My response is to say screw it - and murder literally everyone I can with the character.  Not only have I lost around 30% xp (which would have me just under or at the next level), I've lost all my gems, and have worse karma (by around 3 times) than when I started for not simply letting everyone kill me at will.  Now I'm not saying that the process is impossible, but the amount of time and luck it will take is ridiculous considering what got me to that point in the first place.  A handful of kills, with the majority in defense of friendlies, got me here.

Some solutions:

IMO there should be other additions and tweaks to the system.  The proposed bounty system addresses some of them... but some of the fixes really should be looked at sooner than in an expansion.

  1. Parties/guilds shouldn't require members to be hit to jump in a fight.  Someone else initiates, you should be able to respond without getting hit with negative karma.
  2. Karma loss should have an associated timer.  I almost feel bad about murdering that one guy instantly when he tried to help his friend - but at the same time not having the timer gives an incentive to send weak characters in front of strong characters you want to get rid of.  Send in a couple of weak characters, knock em into the red intentionally, and go about your business.  Hell, 5 characters not wearing gear lower than the person you're trying to get rid of and you're looking at -350k karma instantly.  Want to get rid of a 50?  Send in 5 45s without gear if they've got their flag on.  They don't even need to be trying to kill you or anyone you know.  Want to screw someone over just because you can?  Same thing.  Even better, send those 5 in on horses.  Full 300k to good luck getting out in seconds.
  3. Add self-defense without karma loss asap.
  4. Restore some amount of karma per death (particularly to players who attack you first).  Yes, there's the possibility for the system to be gamed.  There's also the possibility to be spawn camped and killed eternally with no recourse.  Either way you'll still be losing gems and xp.
  5. Add a timer to losses to specific people/parties.  You know what sucks?  Being killed by the same group all over the map within a short period of time.  What sucks even more is that they have an incentive to camp - if they camp they get to be responsible for you losing all your xp and gems.
  6. The random node deal is ridiculous as it stands.  Nearest town means you'll likely be attacked by guards and/or players depending on where it sends you.  Nearest node, while randomized, is a gamble.  Dying instantly at spawn is pretty crappy.  Maybe allow choosing from 3 randomly chosen nodes?  How about nearest town dropping you outside the town itself instead of the dead center?
  7. Having to last hit the mobs makes repairing karma an even more painful experience.  I don't think you should be able to AFK it (besides, that'd be dumb on the player's part), but in high level areas having someone there as backup is mandatory, especially given you will have groups going "hey free kill!" and camping the spot.  All you'd need is to switch it to only if you did damage - or whatever really.  If not, those numbers are pretty ridiculous in comparison.  Either way, in conjunction with the other issues, this part is unbearable.  Grinding out a couple thousand mobs wouldn't be a big deal if someone weren't trying to kill you every 50 or so... but they are.
  8. You're going to need more than bounty hunting players imo.  Guess where I'd camp if I want some karma penalty free kills?  The single quest giver.  IMO you're going to need a couple of these bounty guys - or even better some roaming quest givers.  Honestly gaining karma right now is based off killing monsters.  Why not add some roaming trophy collectors that take time-limited trophies in exchange for karma?  Think fishing, but bringing back a rare/elite monster head.  It'd have low karma players farming things in random locations - providing a better chance of progress - and a lower likelihood of being camped when you're trying to reform your ways.
  9. How about some sort of daily to increase your karma by a certain % if you're in the negative?  Maybe a tough boss scroll or quest with no other rewards?

As it stands now, it makes more sense to me to reroll the same class - pass the gear over - and within a couple days I'll be at the same spot.  If I do go that route - all I'd end up doing is enchanting another set of gear to hand back to the red character.  Guess what I'd do then?  I'd give up trying to reform and kill everything I see because the process as it stands is so infuriating I want to kill everyone that so much as starts walking towards me.  Do dailies on the new main, upgrade the reds gear.  Murder anything that moves, rinse and repeat.  Pretty sure that isn't the intent of the system - but if fixing your karma feels impossible might as well get as violent as you can instead.

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Posted

I don't know why people keep making this huge suggestion posts that are almost mirrors of the currently planned(?) stuff in the first post...

I think #8 and #9 were totally new. 6 & 7 sound more like bugfixes than anything.

8's good, 9's meh.

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Posted

Please GOD fix this pvp system. It's so broken for people who want to PvP atm

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Posted

before karma changes we desperately need changes in guild war system, current "no limit on duration, cheap declare cost, no need to accept final war request, no upkeep" makes this mere grief option that has absolutely no penalties aka making karma system useless in first place

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Posted

It's 300k silver every two hours if they don't war you back. 7.2 million a day. I mean, I guess at end-game that's not much, though. And if all you do is declare, kill a handful off them and then quit the war, it's much cheaper?

They could do what I've seen other games do:

  • Scale declare cost based on relative size/power of attacking guild vs defending guild (stronger guild pays more).
  • Put in a delay between when you declare and when the war becomes "active" (usually 24+ hours)
  • Put in a cooldown between when you drop a war and when that war "slot" (You have 4 right now) becomes available again (usually 24+ hours)

They could also make the fees scale based on average guild member level, or just be a % of the current guild bank, or some combination of all these. They could also lock certain guild features while you have an active war declaration.

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Posted

Reithan: that cost isn't here on NA/EU which is why GvG currently is more like grief option (there is nothing attacked guild can do, and absolutely nothing penalizing attacker expect very minor start cost)

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Posted

All I want is for you guys to make being an Outlaw ''red player'' a viable option. PvP always turned on, more risk, a specific city to repair/live, and that's it.

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Posted

I'm not super knowledgeable on the entire game just yet and still learning about everything.

From what I do understand this seems like a pretty interesting solution. I want to PK and I'm going to run out of Karma.. Doing some Bounties to replenish that would certainly help. And I feel would add an interesting aspect to the game - it's not mindless PvP.. You are hunting someone down and waiting for the right opportunity, potentially, to murder this someone.

I personally love the idea of it right now.

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