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[Updated v2.0] Bounty Hunters, Karma, and Flagging Discussion

4,538 posts in this topic

Posted

I don't mean to reference Kr, even though most of you play it but have you guys ever participated in GvG? you are going to have your hands full with war declarations.

 Pking, will be the last thing on your mind specially with the Western player base mindset.

On a side note the bounty hunting system is a nice addition, but is it going to help you track said players?

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Posted

Sounds like fun FIGHT ME.... FIGHT ME NOW

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Posted

I'am not sure about this idea... Just leave PVP as it is... PVP is the most awesome part later on the game... Thats with all Games.. you cant Always keep doing PVE....

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Posted

I don't mean to reference Kr, even though most of you play it but have you guys ever participated in GvG? you are going to have your hands full with war declarations.

 Pking, will be the last thing on your mind specially with the Western player base mindset.

On a side note the bounty hunting system is a nice addition, but is it going to help you track said players?

Tracking is easy - I think this is where diplomacy with other guilds come in or even trading of materials for information.

Regarding GvG, the thing is not everyone is as interested in GvG. If you had a pirate, or even a mercenary faction that sought of bounties but had a lawless/chaotic nature i think it would offer yet another depth.

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Posted (edited)

Bounty Hunter System

  • Setting a Bounty has a fixed silver price.
  • Various checks will be in place to prevent abuse.
    • Limitation on max bounties a player can set / time
    • Limitation to max bounties per target / time

i'd suggest setting a bounty to cost karma that would also help limiting it and reduce its possibilty to get abused with multi accounts. 

right now i could buy 3 accounts for that system. and 2 computers.

account 1 main account PKs alot

account 2 secondary account -1kk karma my bounty target account.

account 3 fishing account on 2nd pc to get the money afk for the bounty

if i want to get rid of my karma on account 1 i will set a bounty on account 2 with account 3 and kill it with account 1. 

now if it costs karma i would need to grind with 3rd account to do the same sure it would be a safe grind but it would require me to play that account actively so i cant keep pking while doing so.

Edited by Krryk
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Posted

Question: Do you have to be negative karma to obtain a bounty on yourself? Or can you say, kill one player and still be at positive karma, yet still receive a bounty?

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Posted (edited)

Question: Do you have to be negative karma to obtain a bounty on yourself? Or can you say, kill one player and still be at positive karma, yet still receive a bounty?

If I am understanding your question, which I may not be.

  • You can receive a bounty reward regardless if you have high or low karma.
  • You can set a bounty on a player regardless if the target has high or low karma.
Edited by CM_Jouska

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Posted

Please READ the entire post before getting pissed off. Targets will not lose karma for defending themselves, the post says nothing about you losing karma for being killed either. It says the bounty hunter can collect karma in exchange for the Bounty Hunter Seal, this doesn't mean the target loses any karma, items, gems, etc. (Correct me if I'm wrong there). Bounty Hunting will cost silver, so not just anyone can do it (especially if you have a target with high karma, they will be more expensive to kill). I think this is a crazy badass system and I can't wait to see it in action! PVP should have reasons behind it other than...you ran in to me while I was auto-running (;

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Posted (edited)

I also think Bounty seal should reward with an object of choice like I can choose to get Silver or Karma when claiming the Bounty Seal.

This allows the existence of Bounty Hunters, because a Bounty Hunter may already have positive karma and may need silver instead. At the same time a Player killer may want karma instead of silvers, so it can increase the amount of karma he has and get back to a positive value!

Edited by Alhaziel
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Posted (edited)

If I am understanding your question, which I may not be.

  • You can set a bounty on a player regardless if the target has high or low karma.

Ah okay, awesome! I can see this working then! At least to be a system to encourage more PvP without alienating certain groups of players.

Edited by Kinto
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Posted (edited)

I prefer low karma penalities, As soon as people reach the level soft cap leveling spots or faming spots will be full as F and that means people fighiting over for a spot with th increase of karma penality you can´t defend your own spot because in some point youll be a red player, leave the Karma penality as always have been. Declare a war over a Guild is not the solution for this specific topic (defending a grinding spot) because the enemy player won't loose a shit if he dies, no % exp lost nor crystals so there is no way that player will leave the spot.

Edited by PicassoStark
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Posted (edited)

If I am understanding your question, which I may not be.

  • You can receive a bounty reward regardless if you have high or low karma.
  • You can set a bounty on a player regardless if the target has high or low karma.

 

I also think Bounty seal should reward with an object of choice like I can choose to get Silver or Karma when claiming the Bounty Seal.

This allows the existence of Bounty Hunters, because a Bounty Hunter may already have positive karma and may need silver instead. At the same time a Player killer may want karma instead of silvers, so it can increase the amount of karma he has and get back to a positive value!

Sorry I quoted you, but please make possible to take also silvers as reward, people with positive karma (aka Bounty Hunters) do not need additional Karma

You may also add EXP potions as reward or Energy potions as reward of choise.

I just want to point out that the actual reward is very important and must be meaningful for this system to work.

Edited by Alhaziel
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Posted

Personally I see no benefit in this system, as the scope would be limited to the people would actually PK the PKers.. and that is if they can find them in a large world such as BDO. After awhile, no one will bother with a bounty system since the rewards would be small compared to what they could get in the world.  As a PVE player, even if I see a Bounty criminal, I am not going to mess with the player.

Also brings into account it is up to the victim to set up the price of the bounty, if the price is so low, who would even bother to mess with it.  The criminal can just wait it out, hide somewhere and never be seen while a timer runs out on the bounty.  

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Posted

I also think Bounty seal should reward with an object of choice like I can choose to get Silver or Karma when claiming the Bounty Seal.

This allows the existence of Bounty Hunters, because a Bounty Hunter may already have positive karma and may need silver instead. At the same time a Player killer may want karma instead of silvers, so it can increase the amount of karma he has and get back to a positive value!

guess this system is not really for 100% bounty hunters but for pkers to hunt each other instead of random ppl.

 

tho well i have allways considered pk hunters the lower pker as they mostly dont have a risk for doing the same and get rewarded for it :) 

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Posted

What happened to the tried and true faction vs faction reason to kill a player?  Whip up 3 or 4 major factions in the world, have guilds swear loyalty to one or the other (or none at all). factions then have natural enemies, which are flagged by the system with no penalty when attacking or being attacked. Bounties can be given based on the faction towards another faction. Those guilds and players who choose no faction allegiance exist in a neutral state outside of pvp.

Its a tried and true approach, the system gives the proper flags for combat... creates the necessary conflict along with allies and includes an opt out mechanism for those who do not join pvp guilds/factions.

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Posted (edited)

guess this system is not really for 100% bounty hunters but for pkers to hunt each other instead of random ppl.

 

tho well i have allways considered pk hunters the lower pker as they mostly dont have a risk for doing the same and get rewarded for it :) 

Well, if you allow people to choose a reward this system may work for PKers, that can get back to positive karma, as well as Bounty Hunters or other players, that can get silvers instead. I think it is much more sandbox in this way.

Other rewards of choice could be energy and EXP Potions for example.

Edited by Alhaziel

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Posted

What happened to the tried and true faction vs faction reason to kill a player?  Whip up 3 or 4 major factions in the world, have guilds swear loyalty to one or the other (or none at all). factions then have natural enemies, which are flagged by the system with no penalty when attacking or being attacked. Bounties can be given based on the faction towards another faction. Those guilds and players who choose no faction allegiance exist in a neutral state outside of pvp.

Its a tried and true approach, the system gives the proper flags for combat... creates the necessary conflict along with allies and includes an opt out mechanism for those who do not join pvp guilds/factions.

While I agree, this is a great approach, I think it would be nice to have additional options outside of being part of a faction. Some players might not want to get involved in factions and just want to play with a small group or alone. I feel like the bounty hunting option should be a second option along with the faction vs faction idea, so that everyone can enjoy bounty hunting in different ways.

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Posted (edited)

What happened to the tried and true faction vs faction reason to kill a player?  Whip up 3 or 4 major factions in the world, have guilds swear loyalty to one or the other (or none at all). factions then have natural enemies, which are flagged by the system with no penalty when attacking or being attacked. Bounties can be given based on the faction towards another faction. Those guilds and players who choose no faction allegiance exist in a neutral state outside of pvp.

Its a tried and true approach, the system gives the proper flags for combat... creates the necessary conflict along with allies and includes an opt out mechanism for those who do not join pvp guilds/factions.

Read some Kim Daeil interviews - Thats not what he had visioned for the game, unfortunately. Its also what makes this game a bit different, and flawed, imo.

Edited by Major

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Posted

Personally I see no benefit in this system, as the scope would be limited to the people would actually PK the PKers.. and that is if they can find them in a large world such as BDO. After awhile, no one will bother with a bounty system since the rewards would be small compared to what they could get in the world.  As a PVE player, even if I see a Bounty criminal, I am not going to mess with the player.

Also brings into account it is up to the victim to set up the price of the bounty, if the price is so low, who would even bother to mess with it.  The criminal can just wait it out, hide somewhere and never be seen while a timer runs out on the bounty.  

This. Totally disappointed, that's all from me.

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Posted

To the people that don't see the benefit:

The point is to give players:

  • An ulterior reason to PvP (i.e., receive the bounty prize).
  • More importantly, give players another mean to refill their karma.

 As for abusing the system, I'll get back on that later.

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Posted

Well, if you allow people to choose a reward this system way work for PKers, that can get back to positive karma, as well as Bounty Hunters or other players, that can get silvers instead. I think it is much more sandbox in this way.

Other rewards of choice could be energy and EXP Potions for example.

if u get silver, especially if u get silver thats worth to hunt down a player for ..then there will be too many bounty hunters like 200-300 per target and it would get ridicolous.

if u only get karma then yes mainly ppl in need of karma will hunt. 

 

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Posted

"Various checks will be in place to prevent abuse." - Only player directly affected by the Target should be able to place bounties. Only players that the target has attacked and lost karma for to pk them. So, when placing a bounty, Player A gets to see a list of players who are eligible for a bounty. This prevents griefing by third-parties, guild members to spam bounties on the target or placing a bounty on someone random.

Its unclear which player will claim the bounty after the target has been killed. Are bounty hunters lone wolves or is it possible to group up and go bounty hunting?

How is the location of players with bounties on their heads displayed? Do bounty hunters get flagged for pvp and are displayed the locations of players with bounties? - Or is any random stranger passing by to know if another random player has a bounty on his head and quickly collect some points.

Will it be in addition to being cheaper, also more frequent to place bounties on players who have lower karma? Does the target get karma restored for being killed? This way the target will face more consequences for actively pking.

Overall I like the idea of the bounty system. I like the idea of someone being able to revenge-kill their aggressor without receiving negative karma or is simply not able to do so himself. 

This system feels very punishing to open world PKing. Now, you will need a good reason to PK someone or risk getting hunted down in addition to negative karma.

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Posted (edited)

This can only work if the Karma penalty for PK is still minimal enough for people to engage each other. If you raise it above 60k (which is bad enough, only 5 PVP till RED) no one will PK. Then your system is worthless.

 

Tell me Jouska, is the example Belsazar gave about the old flagging system the worst you can come up with?

"We brought up the old flagging system that many PKers requested. But it doesn’t really solve the issue as it brings up new issues. Such as the possibility to avoid the Karma penalty by attacking a player while he is engaged with monsters until he ultimately gets killed by the monsters (last hit). This way you could simply avoid getting the penalty for the kill, as the final strike would have been executed by the monster, not the player."

That doesn't seem like a serious concern, I mean wouldn't that be hard to accomplish? And, can't we be adults and understand that some amount of exploit will occur regardless of the system. You don't honestly believe that you bounty hunter solution won't have issues as rare as the one you cite for the old flagging system do you?

Edited by Crimsonend
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Posted

 

We brought up the old flagging system that many PKers requested. But it doesn’t really solve the issue as it brings up new issues. Such as the possibility to avoid the Karma penalty by attacking a player while he is engaged with monsters until he ultimately gets killed by the monsters (last hit). This way you could simply avoid getting the penalty for the kill, as the final strike would have been executed by the monster, not the player.

Towards the end we brought up a ‘Bounty Hunter’ system, but developers were concerned about offering silver as a reward and being transferred in the process from one player to another, as it is not part of the game’s design.

I know this is a very rough concept, but as explained, it only exists on paper for now and we are proceeding to refine it. We are not sure if this concept will be feasible, but we would like to get the first feedback on this topic. We have to keep in mind that we need to consider exceptional cases that would allow any sort of abuse, such as setting bounty on yourself, abusing the system to refill your karma more easily etc. Also it might be considered to increase karma penalty in general to create a paradigm shift away from ‘ganking’ (random killing without particular reason) towards bounty hunting (killing for a reason).
 

Aside from Karma other options are being considered as reward such as titles, achievements or a ranking system.

The CBT KR Flag system is flawed, this is why they opted to create their own system.

The purpose of this thread was created for constructive feedback on this system and any ideas we as a community may have to improve on this or even provide your own version.

I don't know all the ins and outs this might have and can only see one side of the coin.

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Posted

To the people that don't see the benefit:

The point is to give players:

  • An ulterior reason to PvP (i.e., receive the bounty prize).
  • More importantly, give players another mean to refill their karma.

 As for abusing the system, I'll get back on that later.

It is very important that they add also other type of reward.

If I want to be a bounty hunter, but not a pk, additional karma is not useful. I want silver instead!

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