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[Updated v2.0] Bounty Hunters, Karma, and Flagging Discussion

4,538 posts in this topic

Posted

I dont really care for the entire "bounty system". The whole thing just seems pointless and promotes random pking and then rewarding the pkers to pk themselves.

I would rather see the entire thing scrapped.

Put in an entirely new system where after level 50 you can flag yourself for pvp. While flagged you get some bonus for loot. Thats it. No karma system needed at all.

Risk vs Reward.

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Posted

I fear PvP will have too many restrictions and "red tape" for my liking. I understand that these regulations are meant to discourage griefing. However, griefing is what gives PvP meaning. Those who grief can always be dealt with by a coalition of players having common interests, which can in turn promote organized and long lasting warfare.

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Posted (edited)

I love this idea, not only do I get the satisfaction of killing a random pve'er, I'll also get a bit of a challenge with these pvp'ers who will come looking for me.

Edit: For pvp'ers this board will be like a list of good formidable foes!

Edited by Botsero
Wanted to add a point

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Posted (edited)

... (added a spoiler due lots of angry <i need to post every sentence in different colors and font sizes to get attention>)

ARE YOU REALLY THIS DELUSIONAL?  I LOVE HOW PEOPLE LIKE YOU JUST COME IN A THREAD AND MAKE CLAIMS WITH 0 SUPPORT FOR WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.  PLAYING ON THE KOREAN SERVER MAKES YOU A POSER???  LOL.

BLACK DESERT IS FAILING IN KOREA BECAUSE OF THE RULESETS AND KARMA.

CHECK OUT THE GAME RANKINGS HERE:  (YOULL NEED TO SCROLL DOWN TO FIND BLACK DESERT... IT USED TO BE IN THE TOP 10)

http://www.gamenote.com/rank_ongame/index.php?search_mode=weekly&genre=MMORPG

WHILE YOU ARE AT IT YOU CAN LOOK AT THE TOP GAMES AND YOU MIGHT NOTICE THEY ARE ALL PVP GAMES WITH MUCH LESS RESTRICTIVE RULESETS.

 

Frankly as a Korean I found your post Racist.  Koreans enjoy open world just as much as anyone else.  

 

 

 

 

 

To Reiterate....
 

-------THERE IS NO POINT IN DISCUSSING THE BOUNTY SYSTEM -------

THERE WILL BE 0 PKS TO HUNT. PERIOD.  TRY KOREA OUT IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME.

1-57 IN KOREA 0 OWPVP GANKS.  WHY WASTE EFFORT ON A BOUNTY SYSTEM WHEN THERE WILL BE NO MORE THAN 20 ACTIVE PKERS 3 MONTHS AFTER RELEASE.

FIX THE KARMA SYSTEM FIRST.

INB4 BUT NA AND EU WILL HAVE PKERS... THATS JUST KOREA HURRR.

 

you do understand that this is a sandbox game and not a theme park game. comparing the game charts doesn't get you anywhere. they only count daily logins not cash earned by company or time spent by players in game

 

To pick an example from your list. blade & soul (which recently had its NA/EU launch) users average online time per user is down to 54 minutes per day. that equals a few dailies a run through their solo pve tower or a few 1 on 1 matche in their 1on1arena. That is normal for a theme park game - people who beat the current rides are down to a low online time till they get new content. But those people aren't spending any money in the game anymore.

 

To put it in a more simple way so it gets into your 'open world PK PvP is everything' head. BDO is not just about open world pvp. Otherwise you would have seen more changes in favor of openworld pvp over the past year.

Just because the game doesn't suit your preferred playstyle it doesn't mean that it 'fails'. If you don't like the system it doesn't mean that they should transform it into a game that gives free rule to type 4 gamers aka killers

Edited by Sedlina
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Posted (edited)

I don't know too much about the subject and what all is actually included. I do have a basic opinion though.

PVE and being "good" should reward karma, which will come with bonuses.

PK should be a path you choose, which will make the game really hard for you if you choose to do it. (People hunting for you for actual rewwards, etc.) If I get killed by someone, I will not give up my own silver to get revenge. There should not be a need to put a bounty on someones head. Someone who Pk a lot, should be marked, but can hide their mark for a while by some potion or something while in towns, but out in the world they cannot hide. 

Being a bounty hunter should be a profession that is hard, but rewarding. 

So, either way you choose to play, it should be rewarding in some way. If you just make PK about all the negative effects that you will have, then PKing becomes boring.

there is plenty rewards to do pve already such as tittles and grinding for you gear. 

Edited by Zethers

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Posted

seriously, the best solution is to have flagged channels. If the server has 30 channels 20 will be for PvE and 10 will be for PK. Anything goes on those 10 channels. Build systems that reward PvP and not just reward those killing the PK'rs. It's an OWPvPMMO.. We are seriously lacking the whole OWPVP part. By giving rewards for PvP, people will have an insentive to go to the 3 channels and actually fight. We need a ranking system, leaderboards, reward players for reaching a certain PvP rank, you get more rank points by fighting people that have the same rank as you and less for killing those that have a lower rank. You get less if your opponent is not fighting you etc.. Bounty hunter is nice and all, but I doubt it's going to be very impactful.

I Love PvP and I will probably be one of those people that goes out one day just to PK and have some fun at PvP. But there is currently no reason for me to do so, because there is just so much of a downside to actually PK-ing someone. The bounty system serves no point if no one is actually going to PK. And we don't just need the penalties to be reduced, it should be fun and rewarding and promote a challenge.

what you said was interesting but the channels it's not a good idea, there is no point to have channels just for pve, what would be the point to made an area for pk? Which is the desert if you goint to a channel pve and grind peacefully which also turn into a easier way to get gear and stuff since you are no expecting someone trying to pk you for the spot, I think a thing of open world pvp is that you are able to get pk outside of safe zone. 

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Posted

I like the idea of the bounty system a lot. Question is though, what is going to make people kill others to get bounties on their heads if they don't get any kind of rewards themselves? There will be people who PK regardless, but its kinda crappy that PK'ers have nothing to gain with this system. We are NA and we like PvP :P

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Posted

 

you do understand that this is a sandbox game and not a theme park game. WOW I HAD NO IDEA THANKS FOR CLEARING THAT UP. comparing the game charts doesn't get you anywhere. they only count daily logins not cash earned by company or time spent by players in gameWE CANT COMPARE BDO TO ITSELF?  TO BEFORE THEY PUT IN THE RESTRICTIONS ON PVP AND SAW THE DRAMATIC DROP IN POPULARITY? 

THE CURRENT PVE ENDGAME WILL NOT KEEP PEOPLE PLAYING BY ITSELF.

 

To pick an example from your list. blade & soul (which recently had its NA/EU launch) users average online time per user is down to 54 minutes per day. that equals a few dailies a run through their solo pve tower or a few 1 on 1 matche in their 1on1arena. That is normal for a theme park game - people who beat the current rides are down to a low online time till they get new content. But those people aren't spending any money in the game anymore. WHY DIDNT YOU PICK ONE OF THE MANY SANDBOX PVP GAMES ON TOP OF THE LIST WITH NO PVP RESTRICTIONS?

 

To put it in a more simple way so it gets into your 'open world PK PvP is everything' head. BDO is not just about open world pvp. Otherwise you would have seen more changes in favor of openworld pvp over the past year.  NO INSTEAD WE'VE SEEN THE GAME FALL DRASTICALLY IN POPULARITY WHERE IT WAS BEEN RELEASED.  GRINDING TENS OF THOUSANDS OF THOUSANDS WEAK ASS MOBS IS NOT A GOOD ENDGAME AND WONT KEEP PEOPLE PLAYING FOR LONG.

Just because the game doesn't suit your preferred playstyle it doesn't mean that it 'fails'. If you don't like the system it doesn't mean that they should transform it into a game that gives free rule to type 4 gamers aka killersTHE FACT THAT IT IS ALREADY FAILING WHERE ITS BEEN RELEASED DUE TO BROKEN DESIGN CHANGES MEANS ITS FAILING.

YOU SEEM LIKE A GENUINELY DISHONEST AND BIASED PERSON.

SANDBOX GAMES ARE KNOWN FOR THEIR OPEN WORLD PVP WHICH DRIVES PLAYER INTERACTION AND DRAMA.

THE FACT THAT YOU ARE STILL TRYING TO SPIN THIS SHOWS CONFIRMS HOW BIASED YOU ARE. 

BUT PLEASE GO AHEAD AND RESPOND WITH MORE  EMPTY STATEMENTS BACKED BY NOTHING BUT YOUR OWN OPINIONS.

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Posted

hah and now the wannabes who played with a stolen/borrowed id illegally on the Korean server pretend to know that they know the mentality of the players. Well lets make this a little funnier for everyone.

안녕하세요.실례지만한국어 할 줄 아세요?

if your answer is no or probably a broken translation tool reply then that is because you probably only played with the fan made English translation. In that case you shouldn't claim that you know why the Korean playerbase doesn't like ganking while they are farming. Especially if you never took your time to talk with them or read through the decisions why the game runs with the pvp penalties. The game was adapted based on the local playerbase's feedback first. It was made a lot easier for basic pve and there aren't any big complaints about the lack of pvp options. Becuase there are plenty of pvp options in the game. Hell even PvE oriented players are forced into pvp if they want to participate in guild activities or experience the new zone. So quit your whining with hollow claims

I don't know if you translated that but your Korean sounds like a textbook.

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Posted (edited)

Yes!! This is great! It is really good that you have listened to the community and its feedback. This system sounds great, it finally gives reason to Open World PvP and to be honest.. I would love to walk around with a bounty on my head at all times! Let the games begin. Work this system out, it is good. I am 100% sure that you guys can brainstorm about this system to prevent it from being abused by people.

This was going to be a make or break for me to play this game (eventhough I have bought the Conc Pack anyway). Reasons to kill someone, so there is going to be risk vs rewards instead of just risks.

However there is still one more crucial point that can still make or break this game for me. That is the curren geargaps, I know this is a Korean grinder where everything is about gear. But PvP should be skill based in the end, there are lots of threads about this already so I will not get in detail. I would love to see more information about this subject in the possible upcoming Diarys. 

As for now, great job guys and keep up the lovely work. Listen to your community and you will have the best game for everyone available on the market soon.

Edited by Ricardo

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Posted

What I suggest is a PK Rank:

-Everyone starts at PK Rank 1, once they reach level 50.

-After few pk kills the pk rank goes up to level 2.

-PKers can kill ppl only in a specific PK Rank range--->For example: PK rank 5 can kill people from PK Rank 1 to PK Rank 5, BUT PK Rank 10 can only kill people from PK rank 2 to PK Rank 10.

-This means that after many PKs, lets say 50, you cannot attack anymore people that have PK Rank 1 (people that never killed anyone)-->However if a Rank 1 attack you (if you are Rank 10, for example) you can Fight back and kill him. In this case it will not count as PK Kill towards your rank increase.

 

In this case you have to tweak the numbers, but you protect Rank 1 people, while allowing pkers to kill other people more inclined to open world pvp, that already killed others, since they have their PK Rank greater than 1.

You may also develop a system in which the PK Rank can decrease (for example helping other people that set a bounty on someone).

Bad bad idea. Rank system with
PVP/PK is ALWAYS a bad idea. Get "gooder"... don't carebear it more than it is. You are trying to protect the skill-less instead of allowing them to learn their class/game.

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Posted

Unsure if this has been brought up but. What about benefits for groups? like a bounty hunter guild/clan that specializes in doing bounty hunting. I know that I sure as heck would think twice about PKing. I think it would go something like this. (some of which is copied from the first post) (changes highlighted in blue)

BOUNTY HUNTER CLAN/GUILD SYSTEM

  1. Player A goes to a Bounty Hunter NPC
    • Some of these NPCs need to be in Towns without guards.
    • Player A will select a Clan/Guild from a list of Registered Clans/Guilds
    • Setting a Bounty has a high silver price.
    • Costs to set bounty will in-/decrease based on Karma amount of target player; the lower the Karma, the cheaper the bounty initiation and vice versa
    • The Target needs to be a high level.
    • Various checks will be in place to prevent abuse.
      • Examples
        • Can't place bounty with same family
        • Can't place bounty on your own guildmates
        • Limitation to max bounties per target / time
        • Limitation on max bounties a player can set / time
           
  2. Once the Bounty is in place, the selected clan/guild will be able to attack the Target outside of Safe Zones.
    • You have to flag to attack the Target, but you do not lose Karma.
    • Player A cannot claim the Bounty.
    • Player A will lose Karma normally for attacking the Target.
    • Bounties expire after X days if they are not completed.
    • The Target does not lose Karma for killing their attacker.
       
  3. When the Target is killed the Bounty is removed.
    • Who ever lands the killing blow can loot a Bounty Hunter Seal.
    • Bounty Hunter Seals can be exchanged for Karma, title or other possible benefits.
    • Bounty Hunter Seals are character bound.
    • When Target is killed by Clan/Guild members a small Reward will be distributed to the party of the players who land the killing blow.
    • The Bulk of the Reward will go directly to the guild bank (assuming its silver)
    • The small party may receive Bounty Hunter Guild Seals for landing the killing blow (using random distribution to party members upon looting)
    • If a solo guild member kills the Target they will receive a smaller reward than they would doing a regular bounty and their reward would only directly benefit the guild (no personal benefit)
       
  4.  Clans/Guilds must register for Bounty Hunter work.
  • A Bounty Hunter License will be need upkeep therefor have costs
  • Bounty Hunter License upkeep costs will stack on top of existing guild costs

 

Unsure if I've left out some important details it was just a quick thought I had

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Posted

The weird excuse against the flagging system from the PM is just the worst that i have read in any BDO forum, "Such as the possibility to avoid the Karma penalty by attacking a player while he is engaged with monsters until he ultimately gets killed by the monsters (last hit). " like if this is not going to be possible with this new system and for all the people that loves this looks like you dont understand how this system can be exploited.

 I know that pve'rs love it because fighting against a thinking enemy is so hard that they only enjoy fight mindless mobs forever, well this system will be like a nightmare for you because the real pker's, those that just do it for fun and not for taking a spot or a boss will farm and stack tons of these tokens and go on killing spree anytime they want because they can avoid going red that is the worst penalty in this game just exchanging token for karma, so instead of push for a real and fair pvp where you can defend yourself or if you want make the other player lose karma and just don't respond the attack, you got the worst case scenario for you, hope you enjoy waste your money on somebody head with the huge map of BDO and who knows how many channels will have.

So the developer team and current members of DAUM EU should stop babysitting players like if we were some kind of brain dead vegetable.

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Posted (edited)

Why not just revert to the OLD flagging system BDO used. Eh? It works. Everyone wants it. It's the same that the old Lineage2 had. Everyone likes it!

Why do you need to think of something new if something OLD worked and almost everyone likes it?

I don't get it! 

The change of the flagging system and suggestions (mostly saying that it needs to go back to how it was in the past or to be made like lineage2) have been posted everywhere. Why did you chose to ignore this one?

Are you that afraid to do something right only because other big mmorpg title did it? Really? Now we're not doing good things becaue someone else did it?

How about what Chun Chun stated, bring back the OLD flagging and LET US THE PLAYERS experience it FOR THE NEXT CBT decide what's good enough for us and what we'd like.... isn't that the purpose of a CBT?!?! This current karma system is complete shit and protects only one side of the player base which is crap, you've stated this was to prevent griefing and yet the current system is so exploitable and only harms one side of players. Trying to solve it by bringing in another idea that's not implemented to band aid another issue which down the line with no testing will ONLY create more problems, which has been a trend. 

Examples of poorly tested band aid "fixes" to solve problems:

-Took out flagging and consented PVP (I flag you and you fight back no one gets karma but if you PK someone that doesn't want to fight you get -200K karma still)

-World pvp outside of GvG's takes a nose dive

-Implement a "world pvp" system Called Red Battlefield to combat the lack of non GvG PVP, fails horribly (tries to replace open world flagging)

-Add rewards to the Battlefield system (because no one can fight without getting a shiny thing)

-No one is really doing the Red Battlefield makes it instanced based arena fighter with the bullcrap excuse of "we want Esports"

In the end if these CBT's are bringing back "old" stuff from KR to see the feedback from the community, considering the polls and threads are BEGGING for the old flag system then we should at least get to test and experience the good or the bad.

 

 

 

Edited by Datboi Reckless
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Posted

How about what Chun Chun stated, bring back the OLD flagging and LET US THE PLAYERS experience it FOR THE NEXT CBT decide what's good enough for us and what we'd like.... isn't that the purpose of a CBT?!?! This current karma system is complete shit and protects only one side of the player base which is crap, you've started this was to prevent griefing and yet the current system is so exploitable and only harms one side of players. Trying to solve it by bringing in another idea that's not implemented to band aid another issue which down the line with no testing will ONLY create more problems, which has been a trend. 

Examples of poorly tested band aid "fixes" to solve problems:

-Took out flagging and consented PVP (I flag you and you fight back no one gets karma but if you PK someone that doesn't want to fight you get -200K karma still)

-World pvp outside of GvG's takes a nose dive

-Implement a "world pvp" system Called Red Battlefield to combat the lack of non GvG PVP, fails horribly (tries to replace open world flagging)

-Add rewards to the Battlefield system (because no one can fight without getting a shiny thing)

-No one is really doing the Red Battlefield makes it instanced based arena fighter with the bullcrap excuse of "we want Esports"

In the end if these CBT's are bringing back "old" stuff from KR to see the feedback from the community, considering the polls and threads are BEGGING for the old flag system then we should at least get to test and experience the good or the bad.

 

 

 

What this guy said ¬¬

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Posted

Please keep in mind we will have mechanics in place to prevent using the system to grief other players, as stated in the OP.

it could be solved by just adding PVE & PVP servers. problem solved . no needing a new system everyone win's

 

such as.

PVE Realm: Option to turn PVP off out in the world by a little toggle on your minimap simular to other games. like perfect World! Once you hit it you cant PK or be Pked and it has a enable/disable timer. of 5mins thus no abusing. still have BGs if ever & sieges/GVG

 

then PVP server . no rules. lesser karma  effects. 

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Posted

it could be solved by just adding PVE & PVP servers. problem solved . no needing a new system everyone win's

 

such as.

PVE Realm: Option to turn PVP off out in the world by a little toggle on your minimap simular to other games. like perfect World! Once you hit it you cant PK or be Pked and it has a enable/disable timer. of 5mins thus no abusing. still have BGs if ever & sieges/GVG

 

then PVP server . no rules. lesser karma  effects. 

Cutting off half the game's content is dumb. Just give what Chun chun said.

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Posted

Bounty system is a terrible idea.  Griefers don't care if they die.  They will just create bounties on each other to clear karma debts.  You have to stop players from killing other players who don't want to PVP.  This bounty system will not stop the griefers.  I suggest keeping the original harsh karma system and create PVP servers where those who want to grief other players can be separated from those who don't,

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Posted

I really like the idea of bounty hunting! Hoping to see what i could purchase with those seals though before im sure im behind this though.

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Posted (edited)

Just bring the old flagging system back..

Then if you want to add this new bounty system do it, but to me it looks more like an addition than a complete solution to a problem.

It is so simple - if P1 attacks P2, and P2 fights back, no one should lose karma since P2 accepts the challenge of P1.

If instead P2 does not fight back, and P1 kills him/her anyway, P1 should be punished with a karma penalty for PK.

Edited by Iriel
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Posted

I decided to start a separate thread where I discuss a New Flagging System, what to do with Karma, Rewards over Punishments, and many refined suggestions about the Bounty Hunter System. For those interested, have a look.

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Posted

Pvx server with what ever they are planning and a ``pvp`` server with old flagging system. Test it in cbt2 and see how well it goes, if it fail`s then guess majority will win and i accept total defeat

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Posted

I really like the Idea!

More pvp action in this game!!!

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Posted

There shouldnt be any Karma penalty at all. It doesnt make sense.. just look at other pvp games...

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Posted

Greetings,

We would like to have your input on the proposed Bounty Hunter system from PM Diary 2.2
This idea is an approach to cope with our current PK system and give a proper environment for players interested in PK. 
Below I will give a brief overview of the system.
 

Bounty Hunter System

  1. Player A goes to a Bounty Hunter NPC
    • Some of these NPCs need to be in Towns without guards.
    • Setting a Bounty has a fixed silver price.
    • Costs to set bounty will in-/decrease based on Karma amount of target player; the lower the Karma, the cheaper the bounty initiation and vice versa
    • The Target needs to be at PvP Level.
    • Various checks will be in place to prevent abuse.
      • Examples
        • Can't place bounty with same family
        • Limitation to max bounties per target / time
        • Limitation on max bounties a player can set / time
           
  2. Once the Bounty is in place, other players will be able to attack the Target outside of Safe Zones.
    • You have to flag to attack the Target, but you do not lose Karma.
    • Player A cannot claim the Bounty.
    • Player A will lose Karma normally for attacking the Target.
    • Bounties expire after X days if they are not completed.
    • The Target does not lose Karma for killing their attacker.
       
  3. When the Target is killed the Bounty is removed.
    • Who ever lands the killing blow can loot a Bounty Hunter Seal.
    • Bounty Hunter Seals can be exchanged for Karma, title or other possible benefits.
    • Bounty Hunter Seals are character bound.

 

Keep in mind this is just the overview, we will put checks and balances in place to ensure this system cannot be abused or exploited.  That being said, we would like to have your suggestions and feedback.  Please keep the discussion constructive, and if you see other threads about this topic let me know and I will merge them.

 

PM_Belsazar: Additional note from my end; so far developers are generally interested in adding new features such as a bounty hunter system. This discussion is merely setup to give a direction and to gather some constructive ideas that we can filter and include in our proposal to developers. If something will be developed in this direction, it will most likely not happen before launch, as it will require time and thorough testing before deploying it to any service. So please be patient. And as always, we will keep you updated about any progress we make. Thank you ^_^

 

Clarification

  • As a player with an Active Bounty on your head, you do not lose karma for self defense.
  • All participants of the Bounty System must be of the designated PvP Level (this is being increased from CBT-1)
  • Bounties are placed on Family Names, you will not be able to use multiple characters to exploit the system

i would like to have the quest areas as safe areas because it will be annoying if people kill you while you are trying to do a quest

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