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[Updated v2.0] Bounty Hunters, Karma, and Flagging Discussion

4,538 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

(I tried reading a few pages but to no avail, did I find anyone bring up this painfully obvious point)

What reward, initiative or benefit is there for someone to become a PK'er in the first place. If they are in no dire need to regain Karma, why would anyone want to PK to begin with? Why put yourself into that risky situation if there is nothing to gain from it. I did see mention of Ranks and Achievements but to be honest, I don't personally see those as a favorable reward to everyone.

One Idea I have is to throw in some optional trading/market goods that give the players a higher profit from bringing them from point A to point B, However they are able to be stolen by PK'ers. This throw's in a very nice Risk/Reward feature for both PvE Players and PvP players, as they would of course be able to cash in said marketable goods if they successfully stole them.

You'd like to make more money through similar means as moving cargo? Take the risk, but you might be killed for it.

You'd like to just take the easy way out and steal these profitable goods from players? You too get a risk of bounties and low karma hindrances.

With this system, I could see bodyguard requests becoming a natural part of the game, giving players another fun way to involve themselves into BDO's deep choices of game play as well as giving them a reason to PK without hunting bounties or stealing goods. Actual trading caravans could spawn from this and create a whole new deep social aspect to BDO. To add to this, so too could raiding parties be started for those deep into PK'ing.

Obviously this is all just very rough but I would really like to see this idea explored if it hasn't already been brought up.

Edited by Kaji
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Posted

We brought up the old flagging system that many PKers requested. But it doesn’t really solve the issue as it brings up new issues. Such as the possibility to avoid the Karma penalty by attacking a player while he is engaged with monsters until he ultimately gets killed by the monsters (last hit). This way you could simply avoid getting the penalty for the kill, as the final strike would have been executed by the monster, not the player.

Honestly for me this is a really poor excuse.

First thing, we can do this anytime with anyone. No matter if there is Karma or not. And the person who does it will not get punished anyway.

Second, if i was attacked like this, i would simply walk/run away. We also have a great skill called "Emergency Escape" to get away from mobs atleast.

I appreciate your try tho, but this excuse from PA is really really weak.

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Posted

(I tried reading a few pages but to no avail, did I find anyone bring up this painfully obvious point)

Ideas did come up within a few discussions on this but they're scattered throughout the thread and unfortunately you have to sort through some of the less constructive comments to find them (there's a few longer posts in the last few pages that touch on it).

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Posted

This is an awesome idea so far it sounds similar to the bounty/fine system of elite dangerous where as you commit crimes (using elite dangerous example) attacking system authority puts 10k CR bounty on you killing a system authority makes it near 30 k CR, attacking a player wanted in yembo who is not wanted in valda may yeild the yembo bounty but put a bounty on you in valda. Try working something like this into black desert.

 

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Posted

maybe give rng box as reward for negative karma players who kill bounty hunters? 

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Posted

How do you avoid abuse of the following scenario?

1) PK1 kills PvE1

2) PvE1 is pissed, puts a bounty on PK1

3) PK2 kills PvE2.

4) PvE2 is pissed, puts a bounty on PK2

5) PK1 and PK2 are buddies from different families. They kill each other and split the bounties, lowering their Karma

6) Rinse, Repeat, Profit.

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Posted

Okay, so I guess I have a few questions and comments. Bare in mind I have only played the game to level 30ish in CBT 1, but I am one of those players that likes pvp but understand the need to control excessive and repetitive ganking to help keep a healthy community. 

Questions

1) Is there actually any incentive to PKing a player in this game at present? So far I haven't seen one mentioned other than the Bandit "faction" that should come in future updates.

2) Is PKing something that you are trying to limit to the point that it almost doesn't exist? (Dev question)

3) I noticed a lot of reference to a scenario where Player 1 attacks player 2 and player 2 has a choice, defend yourself and one of two things happens: a) you win and lose karma b) you lose and because you fought back your attacker doesn't lose anything.  Doesn't this just encourage someone that knows they are going to lose to just not fight back, ruining the experience of killing them?  On the contrary if I attack someone and you successfully defend yourself why would I expect you to be punished?

4) Is there a system in a game to date that absolutely no one has figured out how to exploit?  Isn't it really just a matter of desire to find a way to use a system in a way that takes advantage of it?

5) I noticed quite a few players referencing the need to fend off new comers to "their spawn camps".  I get this, almost nothing is more frustrating than having an area you are trying to farm overrun by someone else, my question in that scenario is:  Wouldn't the in coming player gain next to nothing from the mobs if you have better kill speed anyways since you would be able to get the loot drops and majority of the XP by doing more dmg?  If the other player is stronger (has better gear and more skill) allowing them to steal the mobs from you, wouldn't they be able to simply kill you and steal the spot anyways?

6) Since there is concern about the mob camp stealing kind of grief play, would it be possible to just put a bounty on anyone?  I mean if you piss someone off enough that they are willing to pay silver for the off chance someone will kill you should it matter that you killed them first or just that they dislike you that much?

Comments

1) @Selvaria Bles I liked how detailed your idea on the Jailing system is, how ever a couple points to note:  When you go to jail and get out after assaulting someone you usually do not find your self back in possession of the weapon you used to commit the assault.  When some one helps you break out of jail, if you are unsuccessful you both go to jail, if you are successful, the authorities don't forgive and forget, they simply attempt to find you and throw you back in jail.

2) Some one mentioned the issue that you can buy revive potions in the cash shop, you can also buy them with the miles shop too, so I doubt that will be an issue.

3) A few scenarios to see if my understanding of the proposed system working in tandem with the current karma system are correct. Some basic flaws with what I understand of the systems.  Bare in mind I am not one of those people that assumes because I am farming in an area that the mobs some how belong to me, but I do get annoyed from being pushed out of a good spot by better geared or flat out better players.  Then again, when I want to farm a spot... I attempt to farm that spot, I don't take a number and wait in a queue for someone else to get bored, I simply try to split the area with those already there and if they don't want that so be it, the winner gets the spoils.

Scenario 1

     Player 1 is farming mobs in a camp spot and player 2 comes along.

     Player 1 attempts to protect the spot by initiating combat on player 2.

     Player 1 is successful in protecting the spot and continues to farm the mobs at the cost of Karma, a lot of Karma.

     Player 2 returns to same spot being farmed by player 1 and engages combat.

     Player 1 defends spot again by killing Player 2 at the cost of more Karma.

     Player 2 returns yet again (at this point I would be annoyed but not as annoyed as I would be at rest of this scenario).

[At this point Player 1 has killed player 2 enough that karma has dropped significantly and player 2 could have been using crap ass gear with no crystals and no +levels because they were intending to get killed, costing them nothing at all]

     Now Player 2 equips proper gear and kills Player 1, since player 1 chose to defend his/ her spot 3 times and their karma dropped significantly they also drop a piece of gear and won't have been able to return to their normal town because they lost too much Karma and the guards will simply kill them.

 

Scenario 2

     Player 1 is farming mobs in a camp spot and player 2 comes along.

     Player 1 attempts to protect the spot by initiating combat on player 2.

     Player 1 fails to protect area and dies, respawns at town and decides to place a bounty on Player 2 and then asks in town if anyone is willing to follow them to the spot Player 2 is likely to be.

     Player 3 accepts and follows Player 1 to where Player 2 is.

     Player 3 kills Player 2 and collects bounty token. Player 1 goes back to farming mobs.

     

Scenario 3     

     Player 1 is farming mobs in a camp spot and player 2 comes along.

     Player 1 attempts to protect the spot by initiating combat on player 2.

     Player 1 fails to protect area and dies, respawns at town and decides to place a bounty on Player 2 and then asks in town if anyone is willing to follow them to the spot Player 2 is likely to be.

     Player 3 accepts and follows Player 1 to where Player 2 is.

     Player 3 kills Player 2 and collects token and then turns on Player 1 and kills them since the token should be able to negate the karma loss.

     [Not sure there would be a point to this but it came to mind, so there it is.]

 

There are plenty more possibilities, but this is far too long as is, so I'll stop there.

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Posted (edited)

i have no issue with silver rewards for bounties set, those who place them are well aware that they may fail. there needs to be a reason to hunt these ppl down who may just log off for a couple days and never even know they had a bounties and those who make this their profession actually need to talk to ppl, exchange information, ask around, find their hunting places and then exact justice after searching them out, that kinda time investment needs to be worth something for ppl putting in the effort more then a title nobody really cares about, even to the level of having this as ur primary source of silver for a so called bounty hunter and the few people who are really willing to put in the time in a game where there is a million places they could be hiding, seeking their next wagon full of goods.

I realize that people are lazy but for the few who are true hunters, the chase and the reward for that effort should be just as enjoyable and aid in that hunters progress. there should be bounty hunter guilds in certain towns where u can find a board with the names and last town visited as well as a status for if they are online or not at the time of viewing the bounty for hunters with the reward being any silver amount above a set limit depending on the karma of the offender, that the violated person is willing to put up for their vengeance on them.

Edited by 2TheGrave
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Posted

Great work guys.

I'd love to be a Bounty Hunter. Sounds like the dream game is coming true.

Can't wait to play.

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Posted

How do you avoid abuse of the following scenario?

1) PK1 kills PvE1

2) PvE1 is pissed, puts a bounty on PK1

3) PK2 kills PvE2.

4) PvE2 is pissed, puts a bounty on PK2

5) PK1 and PK2 are buddies from different families. They kill each other and split the bounties, lowering their Karma

6) Rinse, Repeat, Profit.

Yes True... this kind of Bounty System is not good.

In Worst Case:

PK1 kills PvE1, 2, 3, 4, 5....or PK1, 2, 3, 4..

Some of them are pissed and put a bounty on PK1.

PK1 loggs his personally slave Account and come up with his BountyHunterSlaveChar 5. (BHSC5)

BHSC5 Kills PK1, send him the Reward, PK1 buy Karma Potions.

Ohhhh... fine.. Great: the pissed Players had payed the Karma Potions für PK1....

Wooohoooo.... letzt PK again... again... again...

An.. UPS.. me... oh.. i am mostly PvE... oh.. ähm... may be this Game is not my Game?!

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted

I share the same mindset here as many others. The old flagging system ideas work to me. In BDO it could use a little bit of mechanical help to make it a more modern concept however.

Scenario 1

Player A attacks Player B (no karma is lost yet) Player B returns fire (no Karma is lost yet)

Player A kills Player B but no Karma is lost because B defended himself and it became a mutual fight.

If B had not returned fire its a Murder, and you get Karma Loss. and a debuff: Murderer, you are now vulnerable to attack from all players for 30 minutes, all further kills will result  in additional greater Karma loss increasing with each subsequent kill. Each additional kill will extend the debuff timer by X+30minutes*Z (where X is the current timer on the debuff, and Z is the amount of kills since obtaining the debuff, The timer can only count down while logged in) This increased karma and debuff penilty makes it more penalizing to use PK as a griefing tool. Basically unless your griefing your next step will be to head to an outpost town which has a bounty NPC, or to a remote area where you feel you'll be safe to continue grinding while waiting for the buff to tick away. (A bounty should give back a substantial amount = at least one full PK) Whereas if you aren't using this to grief a player, then the Debuff will tick away in 30 minutes and you've only lost 1 PK worth of Karma. This is where Proness to PK comes in, Karma ticks back slowly over time to regain what you've lost so in a sense you have a general gauge of a players proness to PK. The Murderer debuff will become longer on its intial reception if the player already had low Karma.

I.E

Player A has 300'000 Karma = 30 minute Debuff to start

Player B has 250'000 Karma = 45 minute Debuff to start

Player C has 200'000 Karma = 1 hour Debuff to start

it carries on like that, making it more penalizing to kill repeatedly. Note (A player with 0 or less Karma will not tick away the Murderer debuff at all until positive karma value climbs above that 0 value)Further note: A bounty collection would also remove 30 minutes of Murderer Debuff time.

Scenario 2

Player A is grinding Skill points on some Mobs, Despite having been there for more than 2 hours player B shows up and begins KSing mobs blatantly for around 10 minutes or so. Player A was patient hoping B would move on without the need for threats, but its become obvious that player B has no respect for your claim to the area and is basically passively challenging you for your territory.

Player A asks Player B politely to move on "Hey I've been here for a few hours now, could you please not KS this is my spot" Player B says something derogatory and ignores the warning continuing to KS Causing an over kill scenario where now they're having to wait on mob respawn basically destroying the benefit of the spot to both players. Player A issues one final warning: "I've been nice, but leave now please." Player B again returns with a rude statement. Player A kills player B without it being a mutual fight, but because he has only PKd one person his Karma has only been impacted to a minimum amount, and he now has the above stated 30 minute Murderer debuff. (A bounty can persist beyond the period of that debuff, but the price of the bounty set should be based on the proness to PK of the target whom PKed you. (for example: 100k Silver+ 100k more for each 100k of Karma that target still has, i.e if they have full Karma it's 400k, if they have 0 karma its 100k, making a bounty cheaper for you to exact consequence of a griefer) (counter intuitive, but the reward could be set higher to the recipient in terms of karma reception and debuff reduction)

Player A continues to hold his spot, other players may attack and kill him without Karma loss themselves because he is labeled as a Murderer, if he dies to another player during that period he is subject to 2x the rate of crystal destruction, and 2x normal EXP loss. (if you've ever taken a full XP loss death over level 55 you know how bad that would be) If player is at 0 or less Karma, player may drop one Item from his characters body (Armor/weapon ect) or inventory at random.

I strongly feel this is punishment enough to curb the greater part of griefing, and to drive the ones that do to go ahead and quit, which is what most perma reds do anyways because they've made and active choice to ruin their character by being perma. Eventually they'll lose all their gear, the only safe place for them would be the Valencia PKer towns.

This would provide both freedom of choice for the player under fire, defending himself, (even a PvEer can kill a KSing griefer in BDO, especially if there is a large difference in gear between them).

It keeps A use for the proposed Bounty system (to accelerate the gain of karma for a red or murder player) Additionally, I do think that the Bounty system should have some applicable use to non Murderers. Just because you're not a red player, doesn't mean you don't want to PVP. The bounty system should reward a white full karma player with monetary gain (1 to 1 with the price paid to initiate the bounty at least)

 

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Posted

If other rewards are considered also, how about temporary cosmetics for a horse/player that is in the top ranking for bounty hunting? That way they can be recognized in the world, they feel good because they're super shiny, and there's solid competition for the top spots. (This could also apply as an idea for biggest PKer  - have the most bounty hunter kills, get special cosmetics while you're the best anti-hunter!)

Of course, then they become targets for PKers who want the best bounty hunters dead, which could be fun in its own right. Imagine bragging to your fellow PKers, "Yeah, I killed top bounty hunter and took his shiny shirt" (not literally, but being killed by a PKer would maybe lower his standing so much that he loses his temporary cosmetic... maybe? If that's how it's determined?) 

And what if bounty hunters turn on each other to be the best? Then they can get themselves a bounty on THEIR head, and drop in the rankings! Oh no! How to get it back? Kill those PKers! Focus! OR.. be the best turncoat! Be the only person in the server to have owned one of each set of cosmetics! Get that reputation!

This sort of thing would promote a constant and fluid play of power, in my opinion, but I'm not terribly well versed in the politics of BDO's PKers.

If this has been suggested already, sorry, I haven't read through all the posts to this forum. 

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Posted

I have not yet thought it through in detail enough to see if this could be exploited in anyway, but so far the bounty hunter system seems like a good idea.

With that being said, I think some kind of karma penalty for pkers should still stay in place. Also, people suggest that there should be an incentive to pk. Why would there need to be an incentive? Isn't just pking another player incentive enough? There needs to be no other incentive.

 

 

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Posted

NICE

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Posted

All or nothing. If there was a 10-3 set up people could duck and run. In this type of game there doesn't need to much incentive to pvp beside honor and respect. From there rivalries start.

That being said I would so love if there was a system to rob transports with a karma token being a possible reward as described in the bounty system. The transporter wouldn't lose anything but a short amount of time (maybe a little respect) if his cart was destroyed. I spent many many a day robbing carts in Wushu for XP pills, so much fun.

The solution to that is easy, if you are or have been in PvP / flagged. You cannot switch channels for 3 hours. And to be clear PK is still allowed on the other channels, it's just that you have the stricter rule set which is losing more karma. And the transport thing I've mentioned before, ~7 months ago I posted about a Hunter/Thief/Trader idea.. Hunter/Thief is the same concept as the bounty hunter system but with more to it. Traders can hier hunters to defend them while doing trades, traders get more bonus when selling to places in Valencia and a bonus for distance traveled (so that if they lost one trade run and revived at a nearby stable, they get a penalty to the rewards). Thieves can rob the transport to gain loot and other rewards. If the hunters defend the trader (thieves have to destroy wagon) they gain rewards. This system allows all 3 to gain benefits, Traders get double the money, hunters gain seals and maybe cash or other rewards and Thieves get loot and seals. (To be clear Thieves do not steal your items, they just get other stuff). Hunters will be able to repair the wagon with items, but the wagon cannot move and it takes time + they are stuck in animation or something. Of course you need to refine the system and make sure you can't exploit it. 

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Posted

what you said was interesting but the channels it's not a good idea, there is no point to have channels just for pve, what would be the point to made an area for pk? Which is the desert if you goint to a channel pve and grind peacefully which also turn into a easier way to get gear and stuff since you are no expecting someone trying to pk you for the spot, I think a thing of open world pvp is that you are able to get pk outside of safe zone. 

To be clear the other channels still have the normal ruleset in place, so anyone can still PK you. I am not talking about removing anything from the current state of the game. Just adding a less strict form of PK on the other channels. So on the PvE channels people can still PK, you lose more karma on this channel and bounty hunter system / everything is still in place. Once you get flagged by PvP you can't switch channels for X amount of hours to prevent people ducking in other channels. 

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Posted

As far as people defending themselves go, I don't like the idea of PKing being ignored just because the other player tried to defend themselves. If somebody wants to kill non-hostile players they should have to live with the consequences, there's plenty of places and mechanics in BDO that allow people to PvP without any karma penalties. If somebody commits a crime what the other person does shouldn't have any bearing on how the crime is perceived. It'd be like if people broke into your house and killed your family but they weren't prosecuted because you shot at them. And then you'll have to spend the next ten years planning on how to get revenge while also teaching your prosecutor that the system is broken. Starring Gerard Butler.

 

It's also pretty exploitable, all PKs would have to do is wait for a player to attack a mob and then jump in their way, then they could kill them with no repercussions regardless of anything. Personally I think the current karma system is fine, there just isn't enough motivation for anybody to actually PK or have negative karma yet. But once they add in more support for being evil like the pro-negative karma city and some other mechanics karma won't be as much of a penalty as it will be a character choice. Hopefully we'll eventually be able to take goods from players and/or their wagons so that being a bandit is a legit mechanic instead of PKing not having any point at all. Then they could get rid of those silly NPC bandits, I prefer that the game be player driven than have AI arbitrarily fill in for what should be a player mechanic.

 

As far as bounty hunting goes I fully support the idea of it being a full mechanic and profession in the game. Ideally i'd like it if the whole thing was as simple as possible, a PK kills a random player for his wagon or trade pack contents but gets negative karma to simulate them getting a reputation for being a bandit/murderer. Then they can take their loot to a pro-bandit territory and sell the stolen goods on the market. Within a certain amount of time after being killed the victim can go to an NPC somewhere and register a bounty on that player based on their reputation level and can include a bonus if the goods are returned. The bandit can get a bonus on their return profit of stolen goods based on how high their reputation/karma is, but once the bandit has been slain by a bounty hunter their karma gets severely reduced.

Something like that anyway.

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Posted

Just add the flagging system...

someone poke you then unflag you poke them back you turn red someone else kill yah boom!!!

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Posted (edited)

Yes True... this kind of Bounty System is not good.

In Worst Case:

PK1 kills PvE1, 2, 3, 4, 5....or PK1, 2, 3, 4..

Some of them are pissed and put a bounty on PK1.

PK1 loggs his personally slave Account and come up with his BountyHunterSlaveChar 5. (BHSC5)

BHSC5 Kills PK1, send him the Reward, PK1 buy Karma Potions.

Ohhhh... fine.. Great: the pissed Players had payed the Karma Potions für PK1....

Wooohoooo.... letzt PK again... again... again...

An.. UPS.. me... oh.. i am mostly PvE... oh.. ähm... may be this Game is not my Game?!

 

 

 

 

 

Bounty is on the family name.

There's a limit to both sides

You can't trade karma

At most you can do this once or twice, before it's locked which is insignificant (Did you not read "heavy checks and balances part")

You scenario will not happen, unless a whole guild tries to do this. That guild will most likely be taken down by the community or a GM.

Did you not read heavy checks and balances part

again

Did you not read heavy checks and balances part

Edited by Kuu

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Posted

Okay, so I guess I have a few questions and comments. Bare in mind I have only played the game to level 30ish in CBT 1, but I am one of those players that likes pvp but understand the need to control excessive and repetitive ganking to help keep a healthy community. 

Questions

1) Is there actually any incentive to PKing a player in this game at present? So far I haven't seen one mentioned other than the Bandit "faction" that should come in future updates.

2) Is PKing something that you are trying to limit to the point that it almost doesn't exist? (Dev question)

3) I noticed a lot of reference to a scenario where Player 1 attacks player 2 and player 2 has a choice, defend yourself and one of two things happens: a) you win and lose karma b) you lose and because you fought back your attacker doesn't lose anything.  Doesn't this just encourage someone that knows they are going to lose to just not fight back, ruining the experience of killing them?  On the contrary if I attack someone and you successfully defend yourself why would I expect you to be punished?

4) Is there a system in a game to date that absolutely no one has figured out how to exploit?  Isn't it really just a matter of desire to find a way to use a system in a way that takes advantage of it?

5) I noticed quite a few players referencing the need to fend off new comers to "their spawn camps".  I get this, almost nothing is more frustrating than having an area you are trying to farm overrun by someone else, my question in that scenario is:  Wouldn't the in coming player gain next to nothing from the mobs if you have better kill speed anyways since you would be able to get the loot drops and majority of the XP by doing more dmg?  If the other player is stronger (has better gear and more skill) allowing them to steal the mobs from you, wouldn't they be able to simply kill you and steal the spot anyways?

6) Since there is concern about the mob camp stealing kind of grief play, would it be possible to just put a bounty on anyone?  I mean if you piss someone off enough that they are willing to pay silver for the off chance someone will kill you should it matter that you killed them first or just that they dislike you that much?

Comments

1) @Selvaria Bles I liked how detailed your idea on the Jailing system is, how ever a couple points to note:  When you go to jail and get out after assaulting someone you usually do not find your self back in possession of the weapon you used to commit the assault.  When some one helps you break out of jail, if you are unsuccessful you both go to jail, if you are successful, the authorities don't forgive and forget, they simply attempt to find you and throw you back in jail.

2) Some one mentioned the issue that you can buy revive potions in the cash shop, you can also buy them with the miles shop too, so I doubt that will be an issue.

3) A few scenarios to see if my understanding of the proposed system working in tandem with the current karma system are correct. Some basic flaws with what I understand of the systems.  Bare in mind I am not one of those people that assumes because I am farming in an area that the mobs some how belong to me, but I do get annoyed from being pushed out of a good spot by better geared or flat out better players.  Then again, when I want to farm a spot... I attempt to farm that spot, I don't take a number and wait in a queue for someone else to get bored, I simply try to split the area with those already there and if they don't want that so be it, the winner gets the spoils.

Scenario 1

     Player 1 is farming mobs in a camp spot and player 2 comes along.

     Player 1 attempts to protect the spot by initiating combat on player 2.

     Player 1 is successful in protecting the spot and continues to farm the mobs at the cost of Karma, a lot of Karma.

     Player 2 returns to same spot being farmed by player 1 and engages combat.

     Player 1 defends spot again by killing Player 2 at the cost of more Karma.

     Player 2 returns yet again (at this point I would be annoyed but not as annoyed as I would be at rest of this scenario).

[At this point Player 1 has killed player 2 enough that karma has dropped significantly and player 2 could have been using crap ass gear with no crystals and no +levels because they were intending to get killed, costing them nothing at all]

     Now Player 2 equips proper gear and kills Player 1, since player 1 chose to defend his/ her spot 3 times and their karma dropped significantly they also drop a piece of gear and won't have been able to return to their normal town because they lost too much Karma and the guards will simply kill them.

 

Scenario 2

     Player 1 is farming mobs in a camp spot and player 2 comes along.

     Player 1 attempts to protect the spot by initiating combat on player 2.

     Player 1 fails to protect area and dies, respawns at town and decides to place a bounty on Player 2 and then asks in town if anyone is willing to follow them to the spot Player 2 is likely to be.

     Player 3 accepts and follows Player 1 to where Player 2 is.

     Player 3 kills Player 2 and collects bounty token. Player 1 goes back to farming mobs.

     

Scenario 3     

     Player 1 is farming mobs in a camp spot and player 2 comes along.

     Player 1 attempts to protect the spot by initiating combat on player 2.

     Player 1 fails to protect area and dies, respawns at town and decides to place a bounty on Player 2 and then asks in town if anyone is willing to follow them to the spot Player 2 is likely to be.

     Player 3 accepts and follows Player 1 to where Player 2 is.

     Player 3 kills Player 2 and collects token and then turns on Player 1 and kills them since the token should be able to negate the karma loss.

     [Not sure there would be a point to this but it came to mind, so there it is.]

 

There are plenty more possibilities, but this is far too long as is, so I'll stop there.

1. Currently here isn't an express reward as far as I can tell. I suggested adding in a negative karma reward track. Since steadily increasing the player's negative karma would increase the game's difficulty because elite bounty hunter wold always be chasing you beyond a certain point.

2. The bounty hunter system is a way to encourage pvp by adding a game type in to regulate something which can not be prevented (PK behavior). PK can not be stopped, but it can be used to help benefit the game world overall by adding an incentive for less PK minded PVP players to participate in OWPvP.

3. This is an exploit or loophole issue that can partially be solved by removing any tradable rewards and limiting rewards to karma. It can also be regulated by adding the jail system. If the bounty is transported t the jail, then those players would have to traverse in game terrain to be able to repeat their bounty/kill/collect cycle. If they did this in close proximity to the jail, other bounty hunters could come in and take the bounty themselves, thus ruining their evil scheme. As for players not fighting back, they should gain good karma for not fighting at all. A lesser amount for fighting and losing, and the maximum amount for fighting and winning. Defending player should never receive negative karma. Attacking player should always receive negative karma. Bounty hunters can pay off that negative karma with bounty seals, and red players will just be grinding their way to maximum negative karma rewards.

4. NO, and it will also never happen. All systems can be exploited.

5. No, and this is a substanceless complaint from those players. If they don't want another player in their area they can attack and get negative karma and a chance for a bounty being placed on them. If they know how to share, nothing bad happens. But reward tracks for both negative and positive karma need to exist, to make sure all players feel rewarded for playing.

6. Bounties can only be placed by a victim of PK. This is already what they said, and is the fairest way in general.

Your scenarios can all be solved by making bounties purchased with positive karma. PK players wont have the positive karma to be a bounty hunter to begin with. Make sure you cant hae a contract on the same person multiple times in the same bounty contract purchase and it will decrease efficiency to the point where this is a non-profitable exploit.

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Posted (edited)

YOU SEEM LIKE A GENUINELY DISHONEST AND BIASED PERSON.

SANDBOX GAMES ARE KNOWN FOR THEIR OPEN WORLD PVP WHICH DRIVES PLAYER INTERACTION AND DRAMA.

THE FACT THAT YOU ARE STILL TRYING TO SPIN THIS SHOWS CONFIRMS HOW BIASED YOU ARE. 

BUT PLEASE GO AHEAD AND RESPOND WITH MORE  EMPTY STATEMENTS BACKED BY NOTHING BUT YOUR OWN OPINIONS.

well darling. I'll just ask you one last question. If you are unable to reply to it so be it then I'll answer it for you.

The old flagging system - the one that you so desperately wish to reintroduce into the game - was changed based on player feedback into the current one for two reasons. Would you mind to tell our dear players here what those reasons were?

(I'll even give you a hint -  you don't need to understand Korean to answer this question ;) - and please be kind to that poor caps lock key of yours and give it a rest for a day)

Edited by Sedlina

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Posted

Please keep in mind we will have mechanics in place to prevent using the system to grief other players, as stated in the OP.

I've thought up a possible exploit/gried to the Bounty Hunter system, make sure the mechanics in place account for this: Player1 hates/wants-to-grief Player2 for some reason. Player1 goes to Bounty Hunter NPC and puts a bounty on Player2. Player1 does this continuously whenever the bounty expires or the cooldown allows, now Player2 is the victim of sanctioned PKing for no reason. I didn't see anything that states the NPC will only allow a bounty to be placed if the player requesting the bounty was actually ganked by the person they are placing the bounty on.

The only problem I see with the intent of the Bounty Hunter system is what is actually gained by the PvEer by setting a bounty? The knowledge that hopefully someone will kill the PvPer? That doesn't add up to much, especially since the system effectively promotes the ganking of PvEers and doesn't actually do anything to prevent the PvEer from getting ganked again. From the PvEer's perspective, they just got ganked, and now they have to fork out silver to "possibly get revenge". That's lose/lose. If the silver cost is negligible then it isn't so bad, but it still doesn't help to protect the PvEer.

Idea: What if the PvEer can purchase a temporary protection contract which increases the Karma Penalty applied to anyone who PKs them in a situation that would normally result in karma loss. Make the cost of the contract similar to the cost of placing a bounty. Minimum karma penalty increase should be 100% (doubling) and go as high as 500%, with increased silver cost as the percent increases. There would have to be a visual notification of some kind showing that a person has a protection contract active on them for this to be fair to any PvPers/PKers. The idea is to make the PKer think twice before they decide to gank. They can still gank if they want to, but this way the PvEer can at least do something proactive to try to protect themselves.

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Posted

What about the idea of karma and renown titles?

- Player A kills several players, racking up bounty. As a result a "title modifier" applies to reflect this like "The Evil ..." or "The Vile ..."

- Player A also kills certain NPC's considered very difficult or does a certain quest, possibly repeatable, that may be very difficult to do. Now the title is adjusted respective to the karma title. So now the title shifts from "The Evil ..." to, say, "The Evil Legend ..." or "The Infamously Vile so-and-so". 

This idea is not my own, rather I saw it many years ago in UO. I will say though that the title system gave bragging rights and kept people constantly working to achieve and maintain the title they obtained. If they did too many "good deeds" then the title would switch. If they died then the title decrease in its luster. It was flat out awesome to become one of the few "Dread Lords" on the server and have everyone soil their pants and run when they saw you lol. The same system of course could be applied to anti-pk players just in a "good" title modifier.

 

BTW I love the idea of a bounty and karma system. Very very cool.

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Posted (edited)

I've thought up a possible exploit/gried to the Bounty Hunter system, make sure the mechanics in place account for this: Player1 hates/wants-to-grief Player2 for some reason. Player1 goes to Bounty Hunter NPC and puts a bounty on Player2. Player1 does this continuously whenever the bounty expires or the cooldown allows, now Player2 is the victim of sanctioned PKing for no reason. I didn't see anything that states the NPC will only allow a bounty to be placed if the player requesting the bounty was actually ganked by the person they are placing the bounty on.

The only problem I see with the intent of the Bounty Hunter system is what is actually gained by the PvEer by setting a bounty? The knowledge that hopefully someone will kill the PvPer? That doesn't add up to much, especially since the system effectively promotes the ganking of PvEers and doesn't actually do anything to prevent the PvEer from getting ganked again. From the PvEer's perspective, they just got ganked, and now they have to fork out silver to "possibly get revenge". That's lose/lose. If the silver cost is negligible then it isn't so bad, but it still doesn't help to protect the PvEer.

Idea: What if the PvEer can purchase a temporary protection contract which increases the Karma Penalty applied to anyone who PKs them in a situation that would normally result in karma loss. Make the cost of the contract similar to the cost of placing a bounty. Minimum karma penalty increase should be 100% (doubling) and go as high as 500%, with increased silver cost as the percent increases. There would have to be a visual notification of some kind showing that a person has a protection contract active on them for this to be fair to any PvPers/PKers. The idea is to make the PKer think twice before they decide to gank. They can still gank if they want to, but this way the PvEer can at least do something proactive to try to protect themselves.

Give them a boost of good karma. If good karma bonuses are pretty cool, then the red aligned player may view those bonuses enviously and change from a negative karma playtrack to a positive aligned one.

Edited by LordOnichan

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Posted

Karma Insurance? Will it have the geico gecko?

1834589-chris-caufields-journey-from-nyp

I've thought up a possible exploit/gried to the Bounty Hunter system, make sure the mechanics in place account for this: Player1 hates/wants-to-grief Player2 for some reason. Player1 goes to Bounty Hunter NPC and puts a bounty on Player2. Player1 does this continuously whenever the bounty expires or the cooldown allows, now Player2 is the victim of sanctioned PKing for no reason. I didn't see anything that states the NPC will only allow a bounty to be placed if the player requesting the bounty was actually ganked by the person they are placing the bounty on.

The only problem I see with the intent of the Bounty Hunter system is what is actually gained by the PvEer by setting a bounty? The knowledge that hopefully someone will kill the PvPer? That doesn't add up to much, especially since the system effectively promotes the ganking of PvEers and doesn't actually do anything to prevent the PvEer from getting ganked again. From the PvEer's perspective, they just got ganked, and now they have to fork out silver to "possibly get revenge". That's lose/lose. If the silver cost is negligible then it isn't so bad, but it still doesn't help to protect the PvEer.

Idea: What if the PvEer can purchase a temporary protection contract which increases the Karma Penalty applied to anyone who PKs them in a situation that would normally result in karma loss. Make the cost of the contract similar to the cost of placing a bounty. Minimum karma penalty increase should be 100% (doubling) and go as high as 500%, with increased silver cost as the percent increases. There would have to be a visual notification of some kind showing that a person has a protection contract active on them for this to be fair to any PvPers/PKers. The idea is to make the PKer think twice before they decide to gank. They can still gank if they want to, but this way the PvEer can at least do something proactive to try to protect themselves.

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