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[Updated v2.0] Bounty Hunters, Karma, and Flagging Discussion

4,538 posts in this topic

Posted

@CM_Jouska
Have there been any discussions of how you are meant to find the bounty target when you pick up a bounty?
The world is huge in and of itself but with multiple channels it would be impossible to find another person.

When you pick up a bounty from an NPC will there be a function that tells you what channel they're in and inform you if they switch?
Perhaps also a general idea of which region the player is currently in without giving the exact coordinates?

Of course the target should also be informed that a bounty has been placed on him though. 

ask to the player who puts the bounty up where he got killed ? this is an mmo after all.

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Posted

My concern with the harshness of the PvP system is that the point of this game is to farm gear so that you can PvP other players.

This isn't a game made to PvE like WoW, it's a grind to get good gear so you can PvP vs other players.

 

If you want a strong PvP environment, you should be encouraging PvP among as many people as possible.

This will both make people used to PvP, as well as making everyone across the board better at PvP because they can't just hide from it constantly.

 

This game wasn't made for PvE to be the end game, so why are we trying to cater to the PvE only players?

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Posted (edited)

This system is unnecessarily complex. Your only reason for not implementing the flagging system is "someone might die to a mob." Perhaps that is an old complaint that lingers from Lineage 2 days which was a much more difficult game due to lack of control over character. In BDO action combat we have potions and plenty of escape skills to run out of range of mob, so a player dying to mobs in this fashion will be extremely low. Plus, the person attacking risks lowering that health TOO low and taking on the penalty of murder himself, which can leave him in a sticky situation with others hunting around in the area as well. (It was a common strategy to bait PKers/griefers into turning red(aka karma penalties) who are trying this tactic by keeping your health low on purpose, basicaly griefing the griefers).

So, what other reasoning do you have for not implementing traditional flagging system as is included in (original, not F2P) Lineage 2? I'm guessing none. So, please, the russians wanted it, and EU and NA wants it, PLEASE introduce the traditional flagging system. It encourages PvP and discourages murder aka PK. Traditional flagging system allows for much more dynamic and emergent every-day PvP/PK'ing, one silly PK or even just flagging can start a huge GvG battle.

In the current system, PVP is too punished for all sides. No one should ever get penalized for defending themselves. No one should ever get penalized via karma for ONLY attacking another player. Sure, penalizing is more "realistic" but we WANT conflict (whereas in  normal society you don't want people running around attacking eachother willynilly), it is after-all, a GAME that we're playing NOT real life. There are other consequences for attacking players, such as their friends show up and kill you repeatedly, guild war, making permanent enemies, etc-- aka dynamic and emergent pvp gameplay.

Please please please please please please please, traditional flagging system, not this convoluted mess, no offense.

Edited by Cuddles
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Posted

a meaningful reward that is meaningful for everyone will cause too many ppl to chase bounty targets. pkers and bounty hunters have to be kept at balance. i know u just want to be a good bounty hunter all fine but do u want to fight with 200 ppl for the bounty ..well that would actually be cool thinking of it if the bounty hunters pk each other to claim the reward for them selves :) 

You just highlighted the major flaw with the karma system!

 

How is it a PK if the bounty hunters want to fight for the target?!?! That's just PVP and right now with the flagging BS everyone gets punished if they want to fight in the open world. THAT IS THE PROBLEM

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Posted

@CM_Jouska bounty on player annoy jail system wiht the mix lineage 2 pk pvp system with Archage you do the crime to do the time just take the Valencia patch and add to the main area

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Posted

The system as described looks like a massive incentive for bounty farming.

Alice and Bob, both evil PKs, have gotten into rep trouble by defending their reserved fishing hole from claimjumping carebears. They leverage a shared account Chuck whose purpose in life is to place bounties on Evil PK guildmembers when needed, to place repeated bounties on each other and then kill each other. They thus quickly raise their reps up to tolerable levels while also collecting bounty tokens, with no risk or cost other than the silver for placing the bounties.

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Posted

The system as described looks like a massive incentive for bounty farming.

Alice and Bob, both evil PKs, have gotten into rep trouble by defending their reserved fishing hole from claimjumping carebears. They leverage a shared account Chuck whose purpose in life is to place bounties on Evil PK guildmembers when needed, to place repeated bounties on each other and then kill each other. They thus quickly raise their reps up to tolerable levels while also collecting bounty tokens, with no risk or cost other than the silver for placing the bounties.

What makes PKing evil...? Cause Carebears don't know how to fight back?

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Posted

The system as described looks like a massive incentive for bounty farming.

Alice and Bob, both evil PKs, have gotten into rep trouble by defending their reserved fishing hole from claimjumping carebears. They leverage a shared account Chuck whose purpose in life is to place bounties on Evil PK guildmembers when needed, to place repeated bounties on each other and then kill each other. They thus quickly raise their reps up to tolerable levels while also collecting bounty tokens, with no risk or cost other than the silver for placing the bounties.

Various checks will be in place to prevent abuse.Examples

  • Can't place bounty with same family
  • Limitation to max bounties per target / time
  • Limitation on max bounties a player can set / time

 

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Posted (edited)

You just highlighted the major flaw with the karma system!

 

How is it a PK if the bounty hunters want to fight for the target?!?! That's just PVP and right now with the flagging BS everyone gets punished if they want to fight in the open world. THAT IS THE PROBLEM

for me pvp and pk is kinda the same. and the bounty hunters fighting for the target doesnt have to be consensual at all. 

Edited by Krryk

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Posted

Various checks will be in place to prevent abuse.Examples

  • Can't place bounty with same family
  • Limitation to max bounties per target / time
  • Limitation on max bounties a player can set / time

 

Guilds of players will abuse this to the benefit of its members. Address the main issue of flagging.

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Posted

There should be a good way for finding the pker, otherwise it will escape and the bounty will expire soon.

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Posted (edited)

for me pvp and pk is kinda the same. and the bounty hunters fighting for the target doesnt have to be consensual at all. 

That's because they are the same. People have split it to try and say they dislike this one aspect of an OW PVP game, but still say they like PVP. I do believe there is a problem with just incessantly killing one person that's why there is a penalty because you cause them a a serious hassle.

Edited by Valkyrja
added clarity

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Posted

for me pvp and pk is kinda the same. and the bounty hunters fighting for the target doesnt have to be consensual at all. 

I agree, but all will be punished with Karma lost because of this failure of a system.

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Posted

Various checks will be in place to prevent abuse.Examples

  • Can't place bounty with same family
  • Limitation to max bounties per target / time
  • Limitation on max bounties a player can set / time

 

Jouska sorry for a minor OT, but why is the old flagging system flawed? What Bel wrote on the diary can already be done in the current system. Is there more to it that he did not write? 

Thank you.

Guilds of players will abuse this to the benefit of its members. Address the main issue of flagging.

I think it is a given a guild member can not collect/put bounty on another guild member, I assume that's another check that was not written.

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Posted

I just want to know why a PvP endgame game tries to cater so much to PvE/Casual players?

 

Pls respond @CM_Jouska

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Posted

I just want to know why a PvP endgame game tries to cater so much to PvE/Casual players?

 

Pls respond @CM_Jouska

$$$$$$$$$$ Pvers/Casuals bring in alot of money.

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Posted

 

I think it is a given a guild member can not collect/put bounty on another guild member, I assume that's another check that was not written.

Ok, we'll make an alt guild and I'll we'll coordinate killing each other's alts. Trust me, I'll exploit the shlizt out of this system.

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Posted

I agree, but all will be punished with Karma lost because of this failure of a system.

thats why i said no silver reward only karma, then there wont be THAT MANY bounty hunters that u need to fight for the bounty :) 

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Posted (edited)

Hello. I just joined to comment on this issue. I think I have a easy suggestion.

With server setup still being discussed. Why not make it easy on yourselves and make the people happy at the same time. I feel like you guys are over thinking the issue when it should be simplified more.

1 PVE Vanilla server with you're current karma system. (some PVP)

1 PVP server with no karma system.(hardcore pvp no rules) some safe zones starter areas and pvp lvl requirement.

The hardcore pvpers win. The pve carebears win. I would imagine its easy to just remove the karma system from the PVP server instead of completely changing the way it works or writing a new system for the entire game. The pvpers who join the pvp server will not care about PKing/griefing . The pvers are happy as can be on their carebear server not pvping at all. Everybody wins.

I really think this should be the way you guys go.

Edited by arson
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Posted (edited)

As someone posted above, the system suggested by CM Jouska is very easily abusable by a player running 3 accounts on 2 platforms, allowing the player in question to keep his karma OK at all times, and PK all they want. Also a group of players focused on PK would just clear Karma off themselves by abusing this loophole.

Player1 gets to red karma due to several PK he did. player2 brings his alt with gear removed so that he loses nothing upon death. Player3's alt toon kills Player2, Player2 places bounty on Player3's head. Player3 also removes his gear and gets killed by player1. Player1 restores Karma.

Also, silver reward is viable option only if the reward is smaller than the amount of silver needed to put an bounty on a player's head - this is to prevent silver duping. Even with that, i can see a backdoor for gold-sellers to transfer silver if this mechanic used silver or anything trade-able as currency.

In the end, any system that allows playerA to enable PvP and then run into the non-flagged playerB's AoE and as a result flag PlayerB for PvP is plain wrong and it would piss off majority of the game's population.

Edited by FUshin
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Posted (edited)

Already closed, rotfl.

Edited by Enzo

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Posted (edited)

An incentive to PvP, a reason to kill.

Edited by S-Class Hero

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Posted

ask to the player who puts the bounty up where he got killed ? this is an mmo after all.

Yeah because the person who kills a random player just to grief will definitely stay in the same spot and same channel for an unlimited amount of hours until the bounty expires.
 

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Posted

As someone posted above, the system suggested by CM Jouska is very easily abusable by a player running 3 accounts on 2 platforms, allowing the player in question to keep his karma OK at all times, and PK all they want. Also a group of players focused on PK would just clear Karma off themselves by abusing this loophole.

Player1 gets to red karma due to several PK he did. player2 brings his alt with gear removed so that he loses nothing upon death. Player3's alt toon kills Player2, Player2 places bounty on Player3's head. Player3 also removes his gear and gets killed by player1. Player1 restores Karma.

Also, silver reward is viable option only if the reward is smaller than the amount of silver needed to put an bounty on a player's head - this is to prevent silver duping. Even with that, i can see a backdoor for gold-sellers to transfer silver if this mechanic used silver as currency.

goldsellers? -  karma sellers incomming :) 

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Posted

@CM_Jouska bounty on player annoy jail system wiht the mix lineage 2 pk pvp system with Archage you do the crime to do the time just take the Valencia patch and add to the main area

This compared to the jail system just being in Valencia in which almost no one pks just make it map wide, this would solve alotta of the issues, in addiction to the bounty system to help catch pkers.

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