• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

[Updated v2.0] Bounty Hunters, Karma, and Flagging Discussion

4,538 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I think that if you made it so everyone loses exp on death, and you don't lose enchants this would be ok. I think you would also need to make it so if you die more then once you can't respawn at that node for 10-30 min. Here is the most important thing though. When you gain the bloody perk, make it so you no longer lose karma or only lose 2-5k per kill. This would make it so you can kill someone and suffer the penalties, and if they keep coming back or someone else takes advantage of you being bloody you can defend yourself without losing a lot of karma. Since you can't respawn more then once at a node every 10-30 min, this should also help as well. We tested this out in a GvG on Korea and it really helped the flow of fights. Having a duel or two is fun, but no one wants to keep fighting the same person for hours over a spot and whoever stays up the longest or has higher durability wins.

Edited by NamePending
I also wanted to add that I would change the karma loss for murdering a white player to 75k and a yellow player 50k but that's just me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Can we have a trigger warning in game to go along with our karma system. Also those skimpy outfits in the cash shop have got to go, all it does is reinforce the sexualization of women and puts the patriarchy on a pedestal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

@CM_Jouska

aCCBbCD.png

This system is almost perfect, but there is 2 mistakes or omitions.

E.g: if 2 players want to pvp each other, they are gonna be both annoyed to be the first to hit the other one and receive negative karma.

-Since player B has [Fight of Flight], even if would die to mobs on the last hit (which would happen 1 over a million times), player A doesn't need to receive any negative karma for hiting player B as long as he doesn't kill him.

-If player A kills player B, but player B had decided to fight and hit player A before dying, then player A shouldn't recieve any negative karma either.

Adding the 2 points I mentioned above is the only logical way this system is going to work and creates pvp while at the same time not having any negative effect on people that just want to pve (no penalty whatsoever even if they would die to an unlucky last hit by mobs).

 

Both players can still flag for PVP and fight consensually in the open world. This system is only for situations where non-consensual PVP takes place.

For example, when someone comes up on where you're grinding and starts stealing mobs from you, and won't take a hike and you want to kill them to get your message across.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

YES LET ME KILL THEM GET -120K KARMA SO THEY CAN COME RIGHT BACK  IN 30 SECONDS AND GIVE IT TO ME AGAIN.  THAT WILL SHOW THEM WHOSE BOSS.

ARE YOU REALLY THIS STUPID?

Just let them initiate combat and you wont get a karma penalty. Use the system as it is designed, just don't attack first. Let them flag then kill them with zero penalty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Just let them initiate combat and you wont get a karma penalty. Use the system as it is designed, just don't attack first. Let them flag then kill them with zero penalty.

thats the point tho, as they dont lose anything dying why would they attack ? if ksing was enough to get pked, might work a few times more till the player is red. then break his gear and u wont see him on the spot soon again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Both players can still flag for PVP and fight consensually in the open world. This system is only for situations where non-consensual PVP takes place.

For example, when someone comes up on where you're grinding and starts stealing mobs from you, and won't take a hike and you want to kill them to get your message across.

Wrong. 

White/Yellow need to flag (alt-c) to PvP the rest.

In that scenario, white and yellow can go steal mobs from purple/red, if purple red wants to kill them to secure his grind spot, Purple/Red will receive negative karma.

There's your flaw and exploit. White/Yellow can feed you negative karma without them receiving any death penalties.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Lol this troll tries 2 hard.

I'm not a troll, name calling is really immature. I obviously have your attention though.

As far as the original post, I think karma should stay the way it is. I'm so tired of people coming into a game forum and trying to change the game to their liking. Devs should have a take it or leave it attitude when it comes to certain game mechanics. You can't please everyone, and it's easier to keep the pve crowd happy which is why most games cater to them as whole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Just let them initiate combat and you wont get a karma penalty. Use the system as it is designed, just don't attack first. Let them flag then kill them with zero penalty.

No, you're not understanding.

The problem isn't the player coming up and attacking you, the problem is the player coming in and stealing all the mobs you're trying to farm. And you kill them to get rid of them, and they come back 30 seconds later to start over. That PVE-griefer will never attack you, he will just grief the shit out of you and laugh as you take karma penalty after karma penalty by inconveniencing him slightly. Then he comes back 30s later...to start again.

If there was even a slight XP loss for White and Yellow players upon death in PVP, this wouldn't be a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Both players can still flag for PVP and fight consensually in the open world. This system is only for situations where non-consensual PVP takes place.

"Non-Consensual PvP" Jesus is that what it's referred to now? Next up, [TRIGGER WARNING] Pixel -----, by the psychopathic pkers who deserve in game capital punishment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

thats the point tho, as they dont lose anything dying why would they attack ? if ksing was enough to get pked, might work a few times more till the player is red. then break his gear and u wont see him on the spot soon again.

Maybe if two players engaged in combat they would remain flagged to each other as being in pvp for a certain duration. That would stop additional karma loss from KS griefing.

Edited by LordOnichan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Wrong. 

White/Yellow need to flag (alt-c) to PvP the rest.

In that scenario, white and yellow can go steal mobs from purple/red, if purple red wants to kill them to secure his grind spot, Purple/Red will receive negative karma.

There's your flaw and exploit. White/Yellow can feed you negative karma without them receiving any death penalties.

No, I'm not wrong. Your point is that those players will choose NOT to flag, which is an issue. But if I'm Red and I approach a White player and say "hey, eff you let's fight about it", that White player CAN flag for PVP and remove the penalty to karma for me engaging in a fight with him.

 

"Non-Consensual PvP" Jesus is that what it's referred to now? Next up, [TRIGGER WARNING] Pixel -----, by the psychopathic pkers who deserve in game capital punishment.

That's what it is. That's the way you lose karma, by attacking someone when they don't want you to. Stop being triggered by the drop of a hat, you're losing credibility.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I propose keeping exp loss on PvP deaths.

White and yellow got no penalties at all, why shouldn't they just stay still and die when someone attacks them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Even 0.5% XP loss for White and Yellow would make them think twice about simply running back time and time again to kill-steal/take your spot.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

PVP-focused players don't want to be punished for something they thought the game was supposed to encourage, and this makes them angry so they type in all caps.

 

 

No Karma system is made to encourage PKing (and honestly, every game I've played with them has had plenty of PK despite heavy penalties). The very purpose of a Karma system is to add penalties to PKing. Tweaking the numbers allowing one to stay purple longer allows one to do what they want with limited penalties while also punishing those that go overboard and thus red.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

No, you're not understanding.

The problem isn't the player coming up and attacking you, the problem is the player coming in and stealing all the mobs you're trying to farm. And you kill them to get rid of them, and they come back 30 seconds later to start over. That PVE-griefer will never attack you, he will just grief the shit out of you and laugh as you take karma penalty after karma penalty by inconveniencing him slightly. Then he comes back 30s later...to start again.

If there was even a slight XP loss for White and Yellow players upon death in PVP, this wouldn't be a problem.

For me it seems the problem lies in that pvp players wants to only kill mobs alone instead of asking players first if they want to group up so they can grind together(especially since we now have better party xp).

Most pve players i have met want to group up and be helpfull and i don't see a reason why someone shouldn't want to group up. 

And the mobs don't have a owner name so they are free for everyone, if you decide to kill instead of ask to group then you get consequences. 

One solution could be that if the player refused to join the party he could then be killed and the player would take less karma penalty.

 

Edited by NightShade

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If you sign up, purchase and play a game that has expressed that pvp, specifically owpvp is a possibility, you have consented to pvp, period.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No Karma system is made to encourage PKing (and honestly, every game I've played with them has had plenty of PK despite heavy penalties). The very purpose of a Karma system is to add penalties to PKing. Tweaking the numbers allowing one to stay purple longer allows one to do what they want with limited penalties while also punishing those that go overboard and thus red.

 

There's a karma system in BDO already, show me the OW PK pls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No Karma system is made to encourage PKing (and honestly, every game I've played with them has had plenty of PK despite heavy penalties). The very purpose of a Karma system is to add penalties to PKing. Tweaking the numbers allowing one to stay purple longer allows one to do what they want with limited penalties while also punishing those that go overboard and thus red.

Yep, basically this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If you sign up, purchase and play a game that has expressed that pvp, specifically owpvp is a possibility, you have consented to pvp, period.

That's like saying if you decide to go out of your house and go to work you have consented to being murdered. Is that true?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

There should be a reason a player might want to be Red.

....

@CM_Jouska

You not pointing to my Idea pitfalls. I do agree with some of your points, but you need to understand - That's what you suggesting is major game redesign. 

And as I understood, EU/NA team is looking for a solution of current problem until Valencia will be added.  And problem is - as you said -

PVE-focused players have visions in their head of getting ganked every 5 minutes, and this causes hysteria, which leads to "More penalties!" type of discussion.

PVP-focused players don't want to be punished for something they thought the game was supposed to encourage, and this makes them angry so they type in all caps.

And I agree that PK happens, especially( with current karma system) by people who don't care about game/character any more so they go and PK every one they can.

My point is  that we need to find solution to  avoid harm from insane PK and solution to protect your point or rights. 

Edited by Alarih

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

 

There's a karma system in BDO already, show me the OW PK pls.

Happens on RU. KR has much higher karma loss per kill, and this is the major difference between KR and RU. This system is already better than what is on RU, allowing more freedom with the PKing. It just needs some tweaks to numbers and add a few things to cover exploits within the system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No Karma system is made to encourage PKing (and honestly, every game I've played with them has had plenty of PK despite heavy penalties). The very purpose of a Karma system is to add penalties to PKing. Tweaking the numbers allowing one to stay purple longer allows one to do what they want with limited penalties while also punishing those that go overboard and thus red.

I never said the karma system encouraged PKing. You're putting words in my mouth.

I said many players were under the impression that Black Desert Online was a game that encouraged OWPVP.

For me it seems the problem lies in that pvp players wants to only kill mobs alone instead of asking players first if they want to group up so they can grind together(especially since we now have better party xp).

Most pve players i have met want to group up and be helpfull and i don't see a reason why someone shouldn't want to group up. 

 

If I'm grinding in an area and someone runs in and starts taking my mobs and killing everything in the area, that is a sign of aggression, not a sign of friendship because he wants to group up. When I then ask him to group, it's because he's taking all my mobs and I can't compete. I don't want to be in a group with someone like that player, so why should I be forced to? This is an OWPVP game, the point is I should be free to choose to kill that player without people talking about how terrible it is.

It doesn't even make sense. And trust me, there are far more times I've been griefed by PVE players than PVP players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

That's like saying if you decide to go out of your house and go to work you have consented to being murdered. Is that true?

I don't remember buying a "go out of my house and go to work" game. Comparing real life with a game is idiotic. If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Some of the ideas are cool and stuff. The biggest issue I have is the removal of XP loss on pvp death (or better yet a penalty on XP gain by the same amount).

I understand this is controversial but right now there is zero benefit to players defending an area they want to XP in. Sure, no one 'owns' anything in a game but it's a game. A competition of resources. PvP over grind spots is one of the biggest reasons PvP happens.

Right now with the proposed system a Pk'ed player loses nothing. They can just keep re-spawning and eventually the PK'er has to simply just leave the guy alone who's jumping up and down in his face or become a 'free kill' themselves. There's is no deterrent to the PK'ed player to change their behaviour pattern that drove to the PK in the first place.

If you plan to keep this as is (which I can understand and is fine) then the respawn locations need a look at. It should take 10 minutes minimum to get back to the same location unless it's right next to a main town. In fact PvP death should result in being spawned back in town with no access to resurrection scrolls/potions.

 

Random acts of aggression are unfortunate but there has to be reasonable loss on both sides or there are no deterrents for being a passive aggressive a-hole. Just for being an active one, and to be perfectly honest most times PK's happen with reason, good or bad...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Happens on RU. KR has much higher karma loss per kill, and this is the major difference between KR and RU. This system is already better than what is on RU, allowing more freedom with the PKing. It just needs some tweaks to numbers and add a few things to cover exploits within the system.

I kill 4 players on RU, how long do I have to grind to get out of negative karma.

 

Just humor me here before I lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites