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[Updated v2.0] Bounty Hunters, Karma, and Flagging Discussion

4,538 posts in this topic

Posted

with only 1 person at a time able to hunt the target im fine with silver rewards, but without a limit on how many ppl can hunt 1 target and silver rewards it just get ridicolous as pker hunters even without a reward mostly outnumber pkers easily. 

I agree- which is why the system works so well in Moonlight blade.

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Posted

I agree- which is why the system works so well in Moonlight blade.

BDO is large, only one person seeking a PK is not enough, at least 10. At least.

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Posted

This looks like a good solution to the reward aspect of the system. And, randomizing your target will prevent a lot of exploiting. Then, to make this system thrive, take the Karma penalty to 30k or so.

Exactly.

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Posted

Bounty hunter seals should be account-wide not bound to the character.

I hope you can trade them in for skins. Everyone wants skins! PvP skins, that would be awesome, imho!

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Posted (edited)

Come on @CM_Jouska, you can't go to sleep yet ;) , you need to start replying! Get to work! *cracks whip*

Edited by Crimsonend
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Posted

BDO is large, only one person seeking a PK is not enough, at least 10. At least.

Yes if the one hunting has no means to track- then Id agree. But if we have a pet able to track the target, as well a timer on how long the bounty hunter has to complete the mission- then I think one would be fine. But Im not opposed to more than 1 hunter but maybe 10 is overkill. In swg I think 3-5 hunters were max and that seems good especially if its timed.

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Posted

BDO is large, only one person seeking a PK is not enough, at least 10. At least.

he said that after taking the bounty he can based on bounty hunter skill sent out his bird to get aprox. location of the target  + chat should be enough to locate ur target.

unless u really need 10 ppl to take down 1 i dont see why u should hunt the target with this many.

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Posted

Yes if the one hunting has no means to track- then Id agree. But if we have a pet able to track the target, as well a timer on how long the bounty hunter has to complete the mission- then I think one would be fine. But Im not opposed to more than 1 hunter but maybe 10 is overkill. In swg I think 3-5 hunters were max and that seems good especially if its timed.

yea 3-5 might be needed if the target is one of the higher leveled / top geared in the game

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Posted

Just add KCB flagging & decrease karma greatly for PKing.
Those who are afraid that they'll get PKed 24/7 should probably stick to COOP/pure PvE games.

Anyway, no matter what you do make sure we can defend/take over spots without having to delete our characters after.

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Posted

Common @CM_Jouska, you can't go to sleep yet ;) , you need to start replying! Get to work! *cracks whip*

Not sleeping, I promise, I am diligently taking notes and will be conveying feedback, concerns, suggestions.  As answers are decided they will be provided, just keep in mind like Belsazar said this is still in the ink stage and has a ways to go.

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Posted

Not sleeping, I promise, I am diligently taking notes and will be conveying feedback, concerns, suggestions.  As answers are decided they will be provided, just keep in mind like Belsazar said this is still in the ink stage and has a ways to go.

Cheers,

I actually just saw your update to the original post a few minutes ago:

 

Clarification

  • As a player with an Active Bounty on your head, you do not lose karma for self defense.
  • All participants of the Bounty System must be of the designated PvP Level (this is being increased from CBT-1)
  • Bounties are placed on Family Names, you will not be able to use multiple characters to exploit the system

 

I noticed the underlined adjustment here, but don't worry your pretty little head, we'll figure out something :P  

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Posted (edited)

Various checks will be in place to prevent abuse.Examples

  • Can't place bounty with same family
  • Limitation to max bounties per target / time
  • Limitation on max bounties a player can set / time

 

i know this is not solid yet 
if that check going to be in are you sure can you promise players you will have dedicated people looking at it 24/7 or 2 or 4yrs down the road, system need to be a 
guaranteed  long term, i heard broken promises from GM always say such thing and live up to it for a while but its starts to diminish example AION they promise to kick bots hacks they did lots of ban hammers for 1 to 2yrs but down the road it starts to slow down  more and more until they stop probly due to lay offs, as soon as that happen boom l more bots and hackers run around, the system you are pitching to me not a long term you still need dedicated GM or people  to overlooked to prevent abuse of bounty

Edited by Selvaria Bles

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Posted

What is this new system intended to do? Give reason to meaningless PK? That's it?

I thought the PvP discussion was going to revolve around open world PvP, not whatever this is intended to do. 

0/10

 

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Posted

Interesting. Only problems I have with this as a PKer myself, is that this forces other people to do the pking. If I want to kill someone myself, I have to set bounty and let my friends have the  pleasure of killing. No. I want to kill them myself. 

The vendetta system sounded good to me actually :) 

I spend all day PKing for pleasure and no reward. I'm glad you guys are making this game more PK friendly though, as it's the best activity to engage in (anyone who says otherwise is confirmed PvE carebear) and encompasses a large player base. 

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Posted

I am really happy that you come up with system like this, it shows that you don´t want BDO to be another stupid gankfest. Will the bounty be valid for an unlimited time (until the the PK player dies)  or will it be only valid for a certain timeframe if the PK player manages to hide ? Second question is, you stated that only the player who landed the killing blow will be able to receive the bounty. That´s a bit unfair in team fights imo. Can you imagine to change that in a way that everybody who contributed to the fight will be rewarded to a certain extent ?

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Posted (edited)

i still think a the flag system from lineage and  jail system like archeage in both area main and Valencia could work and the reward is being satisfied enough having PKer he or she killed drop inventory not gear loot and set to jail 

 

 

Edited by Selvaria Bles
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Posted

I am not a fan of this over complication

Like others have been saying, why not revert to the old system? It works, I promise. If it didn't, then games with similar flagging systems wouldn't still be going, which they are. 

If anything.. why not just make two separate servers? One that is PVX with the same karma/flagging system as now, and a PVP server with auto-flagging at level 30 and a greatly reduced karma system? You can even keep this weird bounty thing in place if it tickles your fancy, but it really is unnecessary. All it seems to me will be salty people setting bounties on people they don't like's heads over and over, and hunting them with large groups. This honestly seems to just lead to the more negative forms of world PVP that you'd want to get away from.. but I don't know. The way I'm used to things being in other sandboxes, bounties have never been necessary because when PK1 kills PVE1, then PVE1's guildies instantly begin the search for PK1, making a bounty system pointless because it happens naturally. Giving a reward for PVE1 to continuously put bounties onto PK1 who will then be hunted down by groups is kinda.. un-fun? 

What happens next? PK1 has his guildies come to play too, then they all get karma reductions for helping defend him from the horde of people who want his bounty? Then they all get bounties on their heads and the side of PVE1 is continuously being rewarded for hunting PK1 and friends? Can PK1's friends put bounties on PVE1's heads to then be rewarded for killing those who began to hunt them? Or is it just not worth it for PK1's friends to come join the fight because the karma reduction is STILL a problem? 

This sounds like a way to promote witch-hunts, really. Sure it's PVP, but it seems like too much when having separate servers solve everyone's problems. 

Only reminds me of this

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Posted

Interesting. Only problems I have with this as a PKer myself, is that this forces other people to do the pking. If I want to kill someone myself, I have to set bounty and let my friends have the  pleasure of killing. No. I want to kill them myself. 

The vendetta system sounded good to me actually :) 

I spend all day PKing for pleasure and no reward. I'm glad you guys are making this game more PK friendly though, as it's the best activity to engage in (anyone who says otherwise is confirmed PvE carebear) and encompasses a large player base. 

I was getting really excited when I started reading about the vendetta system, but then had my hopes dashed when it was toss away so unceremoniously. 

 

I just want on launch week, to get to a grinding spot with my crew and clear it out, just PKing the shlizt out of everyone there. Now, don't say GVG because lots will be unguilded and then there will be more of varying guilds...

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Posted

Bravo!

=^_^=    Thank you sir <3

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Posted

@CM_Jouska If you are red do you still lose enchants on your gear if your killed while red?

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Posted (edited)

As someone posted above, the system suggested by CM Jouska is very easily abusable by a player running 3 accounts on 2 platforms, allowing the player in question to keep his karma OK at all times, and PK all they want. Also a group of players focused on PK would just clear Karma off themselves by abusing this loophole.

Player1 gets to red karma due to several PK he did. player2 brings his alt with gear removed so that he loses nothing upon death. Player3's alt toon kills Player2, Player2 places bounty on Player3's head. Player3 also removes his gear and gets killed by player1. Player1 restores Karma.

Also, silver reward is viable option only if the reward is smaller than the amount of silver needed to put an bounty on a player's head - this is to prevent silver duping. Even with that, i can see a backdoor for gold-sellers to transfer silver if this mechanic used silver or anything trade-able as currency.

In the end, any system that allows playerA to enable PvP and then run into the non-flagged playerB's AoE and as a result flag PlayerB for PvP is plain wrong and it would piss off majority of the game's population.

This is why we just need to avoid this overly complex, convoluted systems and just stick to a simple traditional flagging system. For example the system included in Lineage 2 pre-Goddess of Destruction(aka BEFORE the f2p update). In this system PvP is not punished except by xp loss on the losers side, but PK aka murder is punished enough to keep it from running rampant 24/7. It forced PK's to choose their targets carefully, and to actually think, not just run around wild killing everything in sight.  If the system is too complicated, you're allowing for even more loopholes and room for exploit by friends and people with multiple accounts.

---

1. If someone PK's someone that does not fight back, this is murder, and penalties must be severe enough for the murderer. CHANCE for Dropping gear on death, losing enchant level, greater XP loss, contribution loss, or other things, unless the player restores the karma. 

2. If both players attack eachother, there should be 0 penalties except perhaps some XP loss to the loser. 

Ofcourse the details of the penalties can be custom tailored for BDO, but their reasoning for avoiding the traditional flagging system "someone might die to a mob," is silly because it would be so rare, and there are other factors to consider.

 

Edited by Cuddles

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Posted (edited)

The biggest abuse I can see is guild members leaving their guilds to place bounties on each other and killing each other for free karma. This system would only be worth while if the karma hit was low enough to not negate PK in the first place. This feature would also only work on multiple servers. This would be impossible to implace on a megaserver since you would essentially have to force the player to have a ping on him at all times not letting him PvE in peace.

Edited by DontTouchMyHoHos
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Posted (edited)

This is why we just need to avoid this overly complex, convoluted systems and just stick to a simple traditional flagging system. For example the system included in Lineage 2 pre-Goddess of Destruction(aka BEFORE the f2p update). In this system PvP is not punished except by xp loss on the losers side, but PK aka murder is punished enough to keep it from running rampant 24/7. It forced PK's to choose their targets carefully, and to actually think, not just run around wild killing everything in sight.  If the system is too complicated, you're allowing for even more loopholes and room for exploit by friends and people with multiple accounts.

---

1. If someone PK's someone that does not fight back, this is murder, and penalties must be severe enough for the murderer. CHANCE for Dropping gear on death, losing enchant level, greater XP loss, contribution loss, or other things, unless the player restores the karma. 

2. If both players attack eachother, there should be 0 penalties except perhaps some XP loss to the loser. 

Ofcourse the details of the penalties can be custom tailored for BDO, but their reasoning for avoiding the traditional flagging system "someone might die to a mob," is silly because it would be so rare, and there are other factors to consider.

 

already explained better here a video 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeKhbtog_pI

a mix of lineage2 pvp/pk/karma with a archage jail system not court take the jail system from korea Valencia patch but add jail in ocean for a Alcatraz theme lol 

 

Edited by Selvaria Bles

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Posted (edited)

This is why we just need to avoid this overly complex, convoluted systems and just stick to a simple traditional flagging system. For example the system included in Lineage 2 pre-Goddess of Destruction(aka the f2p update). In this system PvP is not punished except by xp loss on the losers side, but PK aka murder is punished enough to keep it from running rampant 24/7. It forced PK's to choose their targets carefully, and to actually think, not just run around wild killing everything in sight.  If the system is too complicated, you're allowing for even more loopholes and room for exploit by friends and people with multiple accounts.

---

1. If someone PK's someone that does not fight back, this is murder, and penalties must be severe enough for the murderer. CHANCE for Dropping gear on death, losing enchant level, greater XP loss, contribution loss, or other things, unless the player restores the karma. 

2. If both players attack eachother, there should be 0 penalties except perhaps some XP loss to the loser. 

Ofcourse the details of the penalties can be custom tailored for BDO, but their reasoning for avoiding the traditional flagging system "someone might die to a mob," is silly because it would be so rare, and there are other factors to consider.

 

1) Will be abused to hell. People will, can abuse monsters and mobs and not fight back letting that player turn red, respawn then kill them and laugh as they lose everything.

Edited by DontTouchMyHoHos

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Posted

Not sleeping, I promise, I am diligently taking notes and will be conveying feedback, concerns, suggestions.  As answers are decided they will be provided, just keep in mind like Belsazar said this is still in the ink stage and has a ways to go.

@CM_Jouska Please tell you me you saw my post xD

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