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Let's work on finding some compromise!

Which kind of karma system would you like to see?   175 votes

  1. 1. Which kind of karma system would you like to see?

    • The KR CBT Karma system.
      73
    • The current Karma system.
      45
    • The current Karma system with some changes. (Please explain!)
      21
    • A different Karma system altogether. (Please explain!)
      19
    • I do not want a Karma system.
      17
  2. 2. How harshly do you think that killing an unflagged player should be punished?

    • You should not be able to kill an unflagged player.
      23
    • Higher than it is now.
      25
    • I am fine with how it is now.
      48
    • Less than it is now.
      62
    • I don't think one should be punished for killing an unflagged player.
      17

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

202 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I'm tired of seeing unproductive threads/posts from people begging to remove most forms of risk/PvP consequence for actions, and also tired of seeing people begging to remove most forms of protection/support for those not actively PvPing.  I do not believe it's impossible to make the majority of both crowds happy as some claim, though the extremists of both sides may also not be happy.  Some people likely believe "PvErs and PvPers cannot co-exist" because they take the word of the most extremes instead of considering the silent majority who are likely content.  If someone is fine with how something is, they don't post and don't look to change it, so it skews the perception on both sides and makes topics seem much more polarized than they are.  This game is currently very clearly about mixing PvE and PvP crowds together (and those who enjoy both!) into a living world without pushing either side out, and I would like for most to be happy with what we get.

I want this thread to focus on ways we can all coexist with one another, and strongly urge silent parties (No matter your viewpoint!) to speak here -- or at the very least vote!  Your opinion matters much more than you know.  My only request is that no one:

  • Make sweeping statements about how it's impossible for us to coexist.
  • Bash one side of the community.
  • Take jabs at the development/localization team instead of being constructive.
  • Generally doom-saying instead of presenting their viewpoint in a calm and collected manner.  People will be more likely to listen to you!

I believe we can get through this and come to a decent solution if we work together on this instead of dividing ourselves further apart.  Please try to understand someone else's viewpoint when considering what you want as well -- they may very well have just as much right as you do.

As suggested by @insert_brain, please check out the OP of this thread for specifics on Karma and Flagging:

Edited by Maevynn
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Posted

I just want my waifu to have a fat ass tbh. 

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Posted (edited)

KR cbt karma system - AKA. lineage 2
more penalty for PKing, so the PVEers don't get 100% wasted.
+++++++++++++++ PVP
--------------------------- PK

both side are happy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeKhbtog_pI

Edited by Sizer
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Posted

When we talk about what the karma system is now, are we talking about how it is in CBT1 EU/NA? I'd imagine so.

I've heard from a few level-headed folks that it's no big deal at the moment. It takes a lot of solid PKing to get 0 karma, and if you're supplementing that with regular grinding/questing/etc. you gain it back pretty well.

What I'm unclear on is how severe the penalties are for having low karma and when it kicks in.

Do you only lose enchantments on gear upon death when you're fully 0 karma, or do you start getting those crazy penalties halfway to 0 or what?

Personally, with a cap of 300k karma, I think 20-30k karma loss per dishonorable PK is acceptable. If you go gank lowbies who have no way to fight back, I'd consider 50-60k karma hit. But losing enchantments on gear that takes millions of silver, weeks or even months to achieve is not acceptable unless in the most extreme cases if they absolutely want to keep it.

I'm intrigued by the Bounty Hunter idea, but it needs to be done right, and flagging needs to be fixed so karma loss isn't accrued by players who are in a fair fight and both competing.

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Posted

@Maevynn Even tho we strongly disagree on most topics, kudos to you for trying to find a solution and creating a proper non-biased poll & topic.
Lets hope that both sides will keep this conversation classy.

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Posted

^Maevynn is the chosen one. She will bring balance to both sides of the force.

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Posted

When we talk about what the karma system is now, are we talking about how it is in CBT1 EU/NA? I'd imagine so.

I've heard from a few level-headed folks that it's no big deal at the moment. It takes a lot of solid PKing to get 0 karma, and if you're supplementing that with regular grinding/questing/etc. you gain it back pretty well.

What I'm unclear on is how severe the penalties are for having low karma and when it kicks in.

Do you only lose enchantments on gear upon death when you're fully 0 karma, or do you start getting those crazy penalties halfway to 0 or what?

Personally, with a cap of 300k karma, I think 20-30k karma loss per dishonorable PK is acceptable. If you go gank lowbies who have no way to fight back, I'd consider 50-60k karma hit. But losing enchantments on gear that takes millions of silver, weeks or even months to achieve is not acceptable unless in the most extreme cases if they absolutely want to keep it.

I'm intrigued by the Bounty Hunter idea, but it needs to be done right, and flagging needs to be fixed so karma loss isn't accrued by players who are in a fair fight and both competing.

pvp is locked at 50+
if you go red = negative karma 
you lose enchants.
it's fine with me.
what isn't is getting karma just for '' tagging '' someone , like a warning hit, you actualy get karma loss just for hitting someone.

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Posted

^Maevynn is the chosen one. She will bring balance to both sides of the force.

But why the icon change @Maevynn, I liked the old one. You're not the same anymorrree! ;_;  

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Posted

I feel they just need to replace the gear downgrade upon death - for someone with low karma - with something else, perhaps loss of durability.

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Posted

With that, since I can't vote, I'll state my own desires:

I am a mostly PvE/Non-PvP focused player.

I approve of the KR CBT system, in that I do not mind if there is risk for PVE and that I'll just have to be careful and keep my eyes open, which as a PvE-focused player is more fun for me.  If I don't want to PvP, I can run away, and I am fine with that.  There should be benefits to being willing to fight at times.  If I want to defend my spot, I can try and once I engage the person it's fair that they don't get a negative penalty in my mind.  I am fine with being ganked from time to time, and in fact look forward to the thrill of it to break up the monotony of PVE.  However, I am somewhat concerned about it leaning too far to the point that it becomes rampant and the only thing that people do, as I've seen games like that as well.

I personally think that a "Consensual PvP Only" server would likely die out and get boring pretty quick.

KR cbt karma system - AKA. lineage 2
more penalty for PKing, so the PVE don't get 100% wasted.

+1 from me.  Out of likes for now. :/

When we talk about what the karma system is now, are we talking about how it is in CBT1 EU/NA? I'd imagine so.

I've heard from a few level-headed folks that it's no big deal at the moment. It takes a lot of solid PKing to get 0 karma, and if you're supplementing that with regular grinding/questing/etc. you gain it back pretty well.

What I'm unclear on is how severe the penalties are for having low karma and when it kicks in.

Do you only lose enchantments on gear upon death when you're fully 0 karma, or do you start getting those crazy penalties halfway to 0 or what?

Personally, with a cap of 300k karma, I think 20-30k karma loss per dishonorable PK is acceptable. If you go gank lowbies who have no way to fight back, I'd consider 50-60k karma hit. But losing enchantments on gear that takes millions of silver, weeks or even months to achieve is not acceptable unless in the most extreme cases if they absolutely want to keep it.

I'm intrigued by the Bounty Hunter idea, but it needs to be done right, and flagging needs to be fixed so karma loss isn't accrued by players who are in a fair fight and both competing.

Agreed.  I don't think that losing enchantments on gear that takes so much to invest in is fair.  The bounty hunter system also seems interesting to me!

@Maevynn Even tho we strongly disagree on most topics, kudos to you for trying to find a solution and creating a proper non-biased poll & topic.
Lets hope that both sides will keep this conversation classy.

Thank you!  I hope so as well.  I'm fine with not getting everything I want, personally, so long as we end up at a place where most can be satisfied.  Overall I really love the environment/idea behind BDO and just really want to be a part of something like it!

But why the icon change @Maevynn, I liked the old one. You're not the same anymorrree! ;_;  

I have no idea, honestly.  I did it on a 7AM "haven't slept yet" whim.  I'm probably gonna change back later today. :D

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Posted (edited)

Good to see that someone tries to be objective.

However, I would prefer if certain forum users would respect the work and effort the devs have put into the game. There are people out there who think their opinion has more weight than the one of a studied and experienced software engineer. They are no idiots. They know what to do but everyone goes nuts because they don't share confidential information.

Edited by HoshPak
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Posted

So define, to you, what PKing is. The definition of this term is wide and vague. To really understand where people are coming from with their ideas, comments, feedback, complaints.. it's probably most important to talk about the core parts of the argument, and understand their perspective of the entire thing at hand.

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Posted

Thanks for this thread, Maevynn! This looks like a clear cut way to discuss it.

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Posted

I'm tired of seeing unproductive threads/posts from people begging to remove most forms of risk/PvP consequence for actions, and also tired of seeing people begging to remove most forms of protection/support for those not actively PvPing.  I do not believe it's impossible to make the majority of both crowds happy as some claim, though the extremists of both sides may also not be happy.  Some people likely believe "PvErs and PvPers cannot co-exist" because they take the word of the most extremes instead of considering the silent majority who are likely content.  If someone is fine with how something is, they don't post and don't look to change it, so it skews the perception on both sides and makes topics seem much more polarized than they are.  This game is currently very clearly about mixing PvE and PvP crowds together (and those who enjoy both!) into a living world without pushing either side out, and I would like for most to be happy with what we get.

I want this thread to focus on ways we can all coexist with one another, and strongly urge silent parties (No matter your viewpoint!) to speak here -- or at the very least vote!  Your opinion matters much more than you know.  My only request is that no one:

  • Make sweeping statements about how it's impossible for us to coexist.
  • Bash one side of the community.
  • Take jabs at the development/localization team instead of being constructive.
  • Generally doom-saying instead of presenting their viewpoint in a calm and collected manner.  People will be more likely to listen to you!

I believe we can get through this and come to a decent solution if we work together on this instead of dividing ourselves further apart.  Please try to understand someone else's viewpoint when considering what you want as well -- they may very well have just as much right as you do.

Thank you for the effort, but there is no point in putting up a poll about what 70% of the people here knows nothing/few tidbits about.

If you want to make a proper poll, add a complete and thorough explanation of the systems you're asking them to vote about. Feel free to copy paste from http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/5713-the-pvp-flagging-system-please-read-op-before-voting/&do=findComment&comment=102940 if you want.

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Posted (edited)

So define, to you, what PKing is. The definition of this term is wide and vague. To really understand where people are coming from with their ideas, comments, feedback, complaints.. it's probably most important to talk about the core parts of the argument, and understand their perspective of the entire thing at hand.

PKing is the action of killing a player who have no desire to fight, aka murder,
 

Edited by Sizer
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Posted

^Maevynn is the chosen one. She will bring balance to both sides of the force.

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Posted

Is this post #100002 about PK?

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Posted

PKing is the action of killing a player who have no desire to fight, aka murder,
 

So if someone comes up to KS the spot I'm farming to grief me in this manner, and I insist on repaying them by driving my fist through their skull, I should then be punished for defending myself and staking my claim to said pack of mobs?

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Posted

Is this post #100002 about PK?

no one forces you to reply you douchehead attention seeking idiot.

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Posted

no one forces you to reply you douchehead attention seeking idiot.

Awe did someone forget to take a nap today

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Posted

So if someone comes up to KS the spot I'm farming to grief me in this manner, and I insist on repaying them by driving my fist through their skull, I should then be punished for defending myself and staking my claim to said pack of mobs?

this game developpers thinks so.

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Posted

Thanks Maeyvnn, you're my fav carebear (I'm not bashing I swear). Appreciate the effort put into this even though it's not of huge concern to you. 

I just want my waifu to have a fat ass tbh. 

If I could get my waifu a fat ass AND encouraged open world PvP, I'd be the happiest pleb in Canada.

 

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Posted

I have an idea!

How about we get rid of the Karma system. Buuutttt... we bring in something called Rage.

Rage Counter & PvP

Since the Karma system is gone, the new system will include Rage. Rage can build up anytime you are attacked by someone. That attacker or aggressor will receive no Rage when attacking a person without reason. But the innocent person being attacked will get Rage "stacks". Rage "stacks" give you enormous PvP advantage versus the person that attacked you. Rage stacks persist after death and can stack many times, the more times it stacks the more PvP bonus to defense/offense you get versus that person, until you become nearly unkillable and you can probably one shot the person that killed you.

What do you all think?

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Posted

I have an idea!

How about we get rid of the Karma system. Buuutttt... we bring in something called Rage.

Rage Counter & PvP

Since the Karma system is gone, the new system will include Rage. Rage can build up anytime you are attacked by someone. That attacker or aggressor will receive no Rage when attacking a person without reason. But the innocent person being attacked will get Rage "stacks". Rage "stacks" give you enormous PvP advantage versus the person that attacked you. Rage stacks persist after death and can stack many times, the more times it stacks the more PvP bonus to defense/offense you get versus that person, until you become nearly unkillable and you can probably one shot the person that killed you.

What do you all think?

If you can tell me how to properly code for this in all scenarios in which it should be used, then sure.

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Posted

I have an idea!

How about we get rid of the Karma system. Buuutttt... we bring in something called Rage.

Rage Counter & PvP

Since the Karma system is gone, the new system will include Rage. Rage can build up anytime you are attacked by someone. That attacker or aggressor will receive no Rage when attacking a person without reason. But the innocent person being attacked will get Rage "stacks". Rage "stacks" give you enormous PvP advantage versus the person that attacked you. Rage stacks persist after death and can stack many times, the more times it stacks the more PvP bonus to defense/offense you get versus that person, until you become nearly unkillable and you can probably one shot the person that killed you.

What do you all think?

I think you should go back to your bridge.

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