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Let's work on finding some compromise!

Which kind of karma system would you like to see?   175 votes

  1. 1. Which kind of karma system would you like to see?

    • The KR CBT Karma system.
      73
    • The current Karma system.
      45
    • The current Karma system with some changes. (Please explain!)
      21
    • A different Karma system altogether. (Please explain!)
      19
    • I do not want a Karma system.
      17
  2. 2. How harshly do you think that killing an unflagged player should be punished?

    • You should not be able to kill an unflagged player.
      23
    • Higher than it is now.
      25
    • I am fine with how it is now.
      48
    • Less than it is now.
      62
    • I don't think one should be punished for killing an unflagged player.
      17

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

202 posts in this topic

Posted

Awe did someone forget to take a nap today

yeah sorry

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Posted

Well... PK'ing for me is simply the act of one player killing another, outside of Guild or Faction conflicts. Let me contribute to the discussion by giving an example of a game where it worked fairly well: in SRO the PK system is complex and yet stupid simple:

- Target a player and hit him = pink (flagged);

- Defend yourself and kill the player who got flagged first = pink (flagged):

- Kill a white or flagged player with less duration then you = red (PK status);

 

Red (PK status) goes off by: waiting a period of time (days), gaining XP (killing mobs), and loosing XP (letting yourself get killed). [Takes longer based on the amount of players killed, but there was no *visible* karma number]

Killing a Red player may cause him to loose equipped gear or inventory items, it also gives an high amount of XP (based on player level).

-> Players could only get killed outside of towns/ Safe zones; some players would scout the World for PK'ers for some easy XP; some players voluntarily killed bots; some players would kill (or get flagged) simply to loose XP and de-level faster.

 

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Posted

Well... PK'ing for me is simply the act of one player killing another, outside of Guild or Faction conflicts. Let me contribute to the discussion by giving an example of a game where it worked fairly well: in SRO the PK system is complex and yet stupid simple:

- Target a player and hit him = pink (flagged);

- Defend yourself and kill the player who got flagged first = pink (flagged):

- Kill a white or flagged player with less duration then you = red (PK status);

 

Red (PK status) goes off by: waiting a period of time (days), gaining XP (killing mobs), and loosing XP (letting yourself get killed). [Takes longer based on the amount of players killed, but there was no *visible* karma number]

Killing a Red player may cause him to loose equipped gear or inventory items, it also gives an high amount of XP (based on player level).

-> Players could only get killed outside of towns/ Safe zones; some players would scout the World for PK'ers for some easy XP; some players voluntarily killed bots; some players would kill (or get flagged) simply to loose XP and de-level faster.

 

exact same as lineage 2

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Posted

exact same as lineage 2

From the video you posted, it's kind of a knock off yh. Still, not being able to see your *karma points*, and de-leveling by XP loss gave a certain feeling to it.

Overall, it's a game mechanic so I don't think it should be too heavily punished (otherwise why have it in the first place). Their bounty hunter suggestion actually sounds quite fun, maybe with even more NPC immersion by talking to them to figure out where your target is (or if he/she passed by).

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Posted

 

From the video you posted, it's kind of a knock off yh. Still, not being able to see your *karma points*, and de-leveling by XP loss gave a certain feeling to it.

Overall, it's a game mechanic so I don't think it should be too heavily punished (otherwise why have it in the first place). Their bounty hunter suggestion actually sounds quite fun, maybe with even more NPC immersion by talking to them to figure out where your target is (or if he/she passed by).

at least it removes karma from consentual pvp.
so basicly you go out with friends hits some random people ( HITS gives you karma remember ? ), then wait for the bounty hunters to come to you, fight / declare GvG etc. sounds cool.

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Posted

yeah sorry

it's ok I miss mine every now and then

made sure to take one today after work

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Posted (edited)

I guess I just think random PKing is a little lame in the grand scheme of things and I don't disagree with high penalties for random murder. However, I think it would be incredible to see PvP done right. PvPers should be encouraged to take part in exciting consequences without worrying about karma loss, stat harm, and xp loss. The reward for transporting a caravan from Calpheon to Mediah should be HUGE and the reward for stopping it should be equally huge. Think about if you could make that into a team effort as well? It wouldn't even have to be a player caravan. Like so:

 

@CM_Jouska

@GM Nevermore

@PM_Belsazar

 

 

M E R C H A N T     W A R S

A PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER IDEA / GAME MECHANIC.

AT A GLANCE

Players align themselves with a region, either Calpheon / Olvia, Serendia / Balenos, or Mediah. This could have a certain timer on it, like perhaps a week or so. In order to prevent everyone going to Calpheon and getting mega karma (and silver?) for fighting a tiny faction, the system automatically adjusts. If there's thirty people participating in a Calpheon caravan run, and only ten on the Median team, then the system gives more to the Medians for winning and less to the Calpheon team for winning.

Feuding merchant guilds between the nations decide they want to strengthen their control over supplies / black stones / whatever. If the caravan team was in Calpheon, they would start out at a secret location told to them by an NPC. This could be anywhere on the map. Their goal is to get the black stone / merchant items back to their main city. This way, it's equal and each region may have equal distance from their hub.

Let's say Calpheon is the escorting team. Medians and Serendians could try to attack and take over the caravan. Medians take it, and then try to escort it back home. Serendians are like aw hell nah, take it and try to escort it elsewhere. Calpheon rallies and then gets it home. They win.

 

KARMA AND FLAGGING

ONE | You're automatically flagged for as long as the mission lasts.

  • If the mission lasts two hours, you are flagged for those two hours and can be PKed without penalty at that time (save for safe zones in the nation you have aligned with).

TWO | You lose no XP, no karma, no anything upon dying.

  • There's no risk to taking part. Karma penalties for killing non-flagged people remain, but killing opposing teams is a-okay.

THREE | You can gain karma upon winning / participating for your represented nation.

 

INCENTIVES

Why take part? Not only would this promote a community atmosphere by having players PvP together, it would also encourage those who feel less inclined to PvP to participate. PvPers could help teach PvE players the ropes and encourage them to PvP more often. This leads to a less toxic atmosphere and more friendly competition between groups. It highlights the lore of the game and the varying regions and how they are at odds with each other. In Valencia, PvP is more of a free for all and this could help prepare players for that.

Players with bad karma can participate and fix their karma. Players with good karma who participate often can even be made into team leaders. This prevents ganking players from trying to control mission runs.

The warfare feeling to ambushing a huge team would be really cool. Some people have argued that GvG sieges limit the playerbase because only so many can participate, but this would allow more to freely participate during scheduled runs (or when each side gets at least ten people).

In short, this takes less focus from random PKing and single player combat and inspires more active player versus player combat that can encourage a lot of people to take part.

 

 

Edited by Vaeresyn
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Posted

I am still in favor of the PVE/PVP servers. I think over all the two communities aren't looking for the same things in the game, and although the game has things to offer both groups, they won't find it together.

For the PVP server, I would severly reduce karma penalties to the KR CBT1 version so many of them seem to want. It seems a good system for the way they want to play.

For the PVE server, I would make flagging a hard pvp/pve toggle with a long cool down before you could unflag. There would also be certain events and hot spots that would auto flag you.

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Posted

I'd rather the system flag players for pvp based on certain conditions (such as factions) and have no penalty as a result, however as long as it has the potential for a free for all, penalties are a must have imo.

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Posted

can please any1 tell me why many ppl want high penalties for PK but their not talking about non-consensual Guild War at the same time, wich is kinda a PK flatrate ?

im all ok with high penalty on PK and will still PK but i dont get why ppl in a guild should get the option to have PK flatrates for doing a few guildmissions.  i mean just compare a few guild mission to the risks a red named player will have.  i just fear following scenario : high pk cost/low guild war cost => lots of guild wars also lots of non-consensual (u dont have to accept a war ) and only few PKer => guild war will become more of an issue then pk => QQ about guild war => raise guild war cost and then the 'consensual pvp' guys will take the consequence of PKers buying a PK flatrate via guildwar instead of taking the penalty.

 

i wonder if the death penalty from being killed by a PKer would be removed ( no exp loss ) ..how many ppl would be still complaining if they lose nearly nothing dying there?

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Posted

Thank you for the post OP.

PKing is the action of killing a player who have no desire to fight, aka murder,

 

Without getting into the obvious ridiculousness of this comparison, by your own logic if John attacks Tom and Tom fights back, thereby showing a desire to fight (albeit for his life), it's not murder if John kills Tom?

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Posted (edited)

Thank you for the post OP.

 

Without getting into the obvious ridiculousness of this comparison, by your own logic if John attacks Tom and Tom fights back, thereby showing a desire to fight (albeit for his life), it's not murder if John kills Tom?

then its selfdefense as both were fighting for their lives ;) 

Edited by Krryk

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Posted

then its selfdefense as both were fighting for their lives ;) 

Will this hold up in court?

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Posted

Will this hold up in court?

if there is no evidence that John started the fight - sure. 

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Posted

if there is no evidence that John started the fight - sure. 

What precedent are you basing this on?

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Posted

What precedent are you basing this on?

well dunno 'bout ur laws but here u need to be proven guilty for u to become guilty so there needs to be an evidence or u need to admit it.

 

but well thats not what this topic is about or do u want no karma penalty if u pk someone without witness ? :) 

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Posted

well dunno 'bout ur laws but here u need to be proven guilty for u to become guilty so there needs to be an evidence or u need to admit it.

 

but well thats not what this topic is about or do u want no karma penalty if u pk someone without witness ? :) 

I can't compete with your level of intelligence, you win.

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Posted (edited)

I support this, well done, deserves bump.

I would also suggest @CM_Jouska kindly sticky, highlight and tag this thread and close all others to be a good reference.

Edited by Beeso

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Posted

@CM_Jouska every poll and every thread gets to the same conclusion. The flagging system. I'm just saying, maybe you should listen to your playerbase....

OR are you not aware how poll works? 

"Sampling public opinion, George Gallup once said, is like sampling soup: One spoonful can reflect the taste of the whole pot, if the soup is well-stirred. In other words, it’s all about finding a sample that reflects the larger population. "

 

Probably all of these poll that get to the same conclusion are biased, right? Good job.

Your playerbase is well stirred. We have pvers, we have rpers, we have pvpers. Yet all this threads that end up with 200/300/500 votes vs 10/20/50 are wrong!

 

It is also easier to add a new system with 555 issues and fix those issues than to add an old system with 1 issue, which in truth is not really an issue. 

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Posted

Speaking as someone who is from that "silent majority" who have yet to weight in on the discussion...

I can say I am worried that PKing / Griefing will ruin the game for me.

Especially if there are penalties for dying to a PKer (losing experience, having to pay for horse resurrection, item breaking, losing enchant etc) then this should definitely be changed. There's no way an innocent victim of PKing should suffer anything for player caused death other than the inconvenience of returning to your corpse.

I like PVPing and I definitely will participate in organized PVP endgame but I see PKing as different. PVP is something you choose to do, you know what you are getting into. Whereas PKing to me is just griefing. If one player doesn't want to participate then they shouldn't have to, or such PK should be very strongly discouraged.

I support a flagging system where you can open world PVP, by choice, by flagging your character for PVP. If two people who are flagged then there should be no karma penalties for engaging in combat. It should either not be possible to attack someone who isn't flagged or there should be severe penalty for doing so... like red cursor and dropping items on death so people are encouraged to hunt down PKers and steal their stuff. If people want realism this is realism, murders are hunted down and suffer the consequence.

Alternatively I would quite happy with a PVE version of the server with voluntary flagging/dueling/gvg/seige/nodes (which I would choose to play on), and then you could have a PVP free-for-all version where the griefers can all circle-jerk each other behind every tree and attack everyone you see on site with no karma system and hardcore mode character deleted on death for all I care.

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Posted (edited)

Posting from phone so keeping it short. 

Personally I would like to see CB1 flagging, no limit/greatly increased number of guild wars allowed. 

About karma, punish extremely heavily griefers (the ones that go to low level areas/kill for no train at all) but be flexible enough to allow able ppl/guilds to keep farming areas & bosses in lockdown. 

In lockdown from ransoms, since there's karma less wars for guilds.*

Edited by Saintly

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Posted (edited)

Speaking as someone who is from that "silent majority" who have yet to weight in on the discussion...

I can say I am worried that PKing / Griefing will ruin the game for me.

Especially if there are penalties for dying to a PKer (losing experience, having to pay for horse resurrection, item breaking, losing enchant etc) then this should definitely be changed. There's no way an innocent victim of PKing should suffer anything for player caused death other than the inconvenience of returning to your corpse.

I like PVPing and I definitely will participate in organized PVP endgame but I see PKing as different. PVP is something you choose to do, you know what you are getting into. Whereas PKing to me is just griefing. If one player doesn't want to participate then they shouldn't have to, or such PK should be very strongly discouraged.

I support a flagging system where you can open world PVP, by choice, by flagging your character for PVP. If two people who are flagged then there should be no karma penalties for engaging in combat. It should either not be possible to attack someone who isn't flagged or there should be severe penalty for doing so... like red cursor and dropping items on death so people are encouraged to hunt down PKers and steal their stuff. If people want realism this is realism, murders are hunted down and suffer the consequence.

Alternatively I would quite happy with a PVE version of the server with voluntary flagging/dueling/gvg/seige/nodes (which I would choose to play on), and then you could have a PVP free-for-all version where the griefers can all circle-jerk each other behind every tree and attack everyone you see on site with no karma system and hardcore mode character deleted on death for all I care.

man u are clearly playing wrong type of games.... "sandbox" is different to a themepark

Edited by HollowStone

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Posted

PK RANKS:

This is my suggestion aimed to limit murdering of PVE Players from pure PKERs, while allowing free pvp for people inclined towards OWPVP.

-There are 2 PK RANKS: BASE and MASTER ranks.

-At level 50 everyone is BASE RANK: 1) Killing another BASE Rank that fights back do not give you negative karma, but gives you some rank points that increase your bar towards                  the next PK-Rank which is MASTER rank.

                2) Killing a BASE rank that DO NOT fights back--> gives you harsh karma penalty (100+ negative karma) because I want to protect pve players that do not want to engage in pvp, and murdering should be punished hard like in real life. However I would remove enchants brekeage and such. As the point one above, killing a BASE rank unwilling to fight you also get rank points toward your next rank: the MASTER Rank.

-After few BASE Rank kills your rank becomes MASTER, from now on ALL people with MASTER Rank can fight each other with no karma-items penalties AND I would remove also EXP Penalties in case of death.

However a MASTER Rank cannot attack anymore a BASE Rank, but if a BASE Rank attacks him, he can fight back and kill him-->again no karma penalty or whatsever here.

In this way BASE Rank people that probably are PVE Players that do not want engage in PVP are protected by this system, however at the same ways OWPVP is totally viable for PvP inclined players.

Finally I would like to add some way for players to get back to the BASE Rank, This will allow some PKers to exist while limiting them and prevent PVE Mobs stealing that may occour:

You can get back to BASE Rank in 3 ways:

1)Bounty Haunting-->Gives you karma and gets you back to BASE Rank. The players you are hunting are thos PKers that killed a BASE Rank that DID NOT FIGHT BACK.

2)BASE RANK POTION: You can by one potion a day, at a high silver cost, this potion has 24 hours cooldown and gets you back to BASE Rank. It can be useful to prevent mobs stealing at a grinding spot.

3)NO PVP for 24 Hours.--> if you do not kill anyone for 24 hours you get back to the Base Rank.

This system has been designed to protect PVE Players that do not want to engage in PVP, while allowing free OWPVP.

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Posted

With that, since I can't vote, I'll state my own desires:

I am a mostly PvE/Non-PvP focused player.

I approve of the KR CBT system, in that I do not mind if there is risk for PVE and that I'll just have to be careful and keep my eyes open, which as a PvE-focused player is more fun for me.  If I don't want to PvP, I can run away, and I am fine with that.  There should be benefits to being willing to fight at times.  If I want to defend my spot, I can try and once I engage the person it's fair that they don't get a negative penalty in my mind.  I am fine with being ganked from time to time, and in fact look forward to the thrill of it to break up the monotony of PVE.  However, I am somewhat concerned about it leaning too far to the point that it becomes rampant and the only thing that people do, as I've seen games like that as well.

I personally think that a "Consensual PvP Only" server would likely die out and get boring pretty quick.

Aaaaarrrgh.... seriously Maevynn you must be the most schizophrenic/split personality & hypocritical person on this forum, there is no other explanation, you have constantly stand against the demands of the PvP community, about the change of flagging we ask since ALPHA, against the reduction of PK penalty & you called us again & again "extremists" or a "vocal minority" &/or "just griefers" & the list goes on & on, & now you try to play it our friend & you just now realize that the flagging system we want to see back might be "fun" for you.. aargh.. & even write that it might be fun for you to be ganked from time to time & that you are looking forward to the thrill to break the monotony of PvE... if everyone else still have their hair on their heads read what this person wrote next, he wrote that in his opinion a "Consensual PvP Only" server would likely die out and get boring pretty quick & it seems that he just now realize that all this time that he stood against us because he wanted to be able to farm in peace 24/7 like the good carebear his is, was wrong & now he must support our noble cause because a divine light shone upon him & enlighten his mind.. I don't know what else to say you are a lost cause dude, at least stick to the side you were with till the end & don't jump back & forth like a rabbit you make yourself look like a fool, btw are you satisfied with the results of your poll? I give up, you are truly an unbeatable "creature" can't fight with you anymore, whatever anyone do his loss is certain if he decide to go against you.

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Posted (edited)

 

Aaaaarrrgh.... seriously Maevynn you must be the most schizophrenic/split personality & hypocritical person on this forum, there is no other explanation, you have constantly stand against the demands of the PvP community, about the change of flagging we ask since ALPHA, against the reduction of PK penalty & you called us again & again "extremists" or a "vocal minority" &/or "just griefers" & the list goes on & on, & now you try to play it our friend & you just now realize that the flagging system we want to see back might be "fun" for you.. aargh.. & even write that it might be fun for you to be ganked from time to time & that you are looking forward to the thrill to break the monotony of PvE... if everyone else still have their hair on their heads read what this person wrote next, he wrote that in his opinion a "Consensual PvP Only" server would likely die out and get boring pretty quick & it seems that he just now realize that all this time that he stood against us because he wanted to be able to farm in peace 24/7 like the good carebear his is, was wrong & now he must support our noble cause because a divine light shone upon him & enlighten his mind.. I don't know what else to say you are a lost cause dude, at least stick to the side you were with till the end & don't jump back & forth like a rabbit you make yourself look like a fool, btw are you satisfied with the results of your poll? I give up, you are truly an unbeatable "creature" can't fight with you anymore, whatever anyone do his loss is certain if he decide to go against you.

I've been pretty straightforward, I just disagree with you from time to time on the extent of what you want and because in general I find some things posted too extremist/dramatic.  I will not lie about how I feel/think about something just for the sake of rolling along with a crowd who has semi-similar ideas that are coming from the wrong place which can have unintended consequences.  I can see how it'd be confusing, but I'm not switching sides.  All because I'm fighting for/against an idea doesn't mean I suddenly agree/disagree with everything associated with that idea.

Edited by Maevynn
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