• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

vote now Sorceress Balance Poll


Does the Sorceress need to be re-balanced?   1,067 votes

  1. 1. Please vote/reply.

    • Yes, their damage is too high.
      225
    • Yes, the cooldown or cost on their iframe (invulnerability) is too short/small.
      406
    • Yes, their block mechanic is making them too tanky.
      24
    • Yes, they have too many knockdowns and or stuns.
      22
    • No, they are perfect.
      360
    • Other, see reply...
      30

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

391 posts in this topic

Posted

Are people really counting points in RB as a thing that they care about?  Aren't points based off of kills, and therefore favor ranged classes extraordinarily?

Do they get anything for having the most points?

Or am I misunderstanding what you mean?

No. Tamers and Sorcs generally have the highest average rating among all RBF. I'll start tracking stats of each win as best as possible and report back to the forums in about a week for proof.

cbf =/= organized PvP with people that actually know what they're doing and understand their role in PvP. Hell, the majority of people don't even stack kd resist. You can put a well geared person in on any class and they will wreck face in that chaos.

You're correct about this.

I will agree that sorcs in organized/strategic pvp are a lot more useless than they are in CBF.

That being said, I still do not think that this justifies their -----ery, sir.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'm giving my analysis of days worth of building my self to attempt to combat my strongest counter in the game.No other class gives me as much problems, so I tried to find a way to counter it and so far, it seems like, welp. ----- you War.

Basically.

Either way, I'm not arguing balance. Not once have I said that word as most people who say it don't know what they are talking about.

I simply think the teleport/transit time is an issue.
Go play against the class and get back to me brother.

Thanks.

PS. Our football sized AoEs have very long cooldowns in the heat of battle, not that I'd expect someone who does not play the class to understand.

I have played against it many times, and wrecked it in GvG every time. The fact of the matter is they're just not that useful compared to tanks that can take focus and block the front lines, and Rangers and wizzies who can hide behind them and wreck everyone in sight. You can't iframe into a hail of arrows and residual lighting and still survive. There's still downtime between the teleports.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

This is stupid, this is not a 1v1 game and is not mean to be balanced around 1v1 (not that i think sorcs are op anyway)

Come nodes/siege wars and sorcs mean nothing! 

Mark my words, once we get sieges, people will be asking to nerf ranger/witch/wizard long range spells 

I just said we don't need to wait until sieges will be implemented

all the GvG wiz/witch make the difference
rangers just need a nerf in the shotgun
sorc her iframe

but wiz... are so broken
plus the horse GG

wiz+horse+meteor = GG

wiz need to remove that instawhatever and all the skills ._. and give to him a banana :P
ranger nerf to shotgun
sorc needs higher cooldown on that teleport

and giant needs to be buffed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I have played against it many times, and wrecked it in GvG every time. The fact of the matter is they're just not that useful compared to tanks that can take focus and block the front lines, and Rangers and wizzies who can hide behind them and wreck everyone in sight. You can't iframe into a hail of arrows and residual lighting and still survive. There's still downtime between the teleports.

Wizards do not have the range to hide behind other players and do damage, unless the frontline is in the other frontlines face. Which at that point, the fight has started and people are coming through the frontline(unless they know what to do and how to cc) and directly to the wizards to kill first, which isn't always a problem, if you know how to really play wizard.

You can only get hit by both those skills one at a time unless there are two wizards there.

You can iframe the skill, but if you are in it depending on where you are at and the tick passover of the skill, you will get hit while in teleport transit(Speaking of Blizzard).

Residual lightning hits if timed properly, yes. But it's pointless to use if you're teleporting and above 50% hp, as not all of the skill will hit, which is what is required to do damage to your class. Better, smarter, to save it until we can actually hit you.

otherwise you will more than likely escape.

In my experience with Wizard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

DO NOTHING!

People have no real knowledge of how the game is supposed to work and be... they don't play the other classes to learn the tells/animations... they don't know crap...

Sorcs have weaknesses.... people just need to learn them

 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I just said we don't need to wait until sieges will be implemented
all the GvG wiz/witch make the difference
rangers just need a nerf in the shotgun
sorc her iframe

but wiz... are so broken
plus the horse GG

wiz+horse+meteor = GG

wiz need to remove that instawhatever and all the skills ._. and give to him a banana :P
ranger nerf to shotgun
sorc needs higher cooldown on that teleport

and giant needs to be buffed

What skills do you have a problem with in regards to wizards? I'd like to know, what class you play and what skills give you a problem.

I've found that after people play wizard, they realize that the skills they have an issue with have their own gimics and learn how to deal with them a bit better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'm a Sorc and I get shit on by other Sorcs with better gear then me, Plz nerf.

All these comments about how sorcs go into groups, kill 2-3 people and tele out - how do you know the people they killed didn't have 100dp while the sorc had 150+ap?

If I dark flame someone who has low dp while I have high ap, I'm going to tear right through them..simple logic.  

Pro tip - stack KD resist and fart all over sorcs all day.  I practice with my warrior friend who has 60% KD resist and it's a fkn nightmare

Das me. We spent an hour or so dueling and I can count the number of times he knocked me down on one hand. If I don't block it, then it probably isn't gonna knock me down anyways. So I don't find a problem with sorc KD. Just have to adjust your crystals for it.

Until all the classes and their awakenings are available, I doubt we'll be seeing any significant rebalancing.  If they rebalance now, the new classes and the awakening would just mess it all up.  So don't get your hopes up until those have come to pass.

I think awakenings will likely solve some of the problems people are having with their classes. Once everyone gets their awakening they'll be able to see if there really is a problem or not. Until then people need to be patient.

I also don't understand why people think witches and wizards are op. Yeah they can take out groups if they're dumb enough to be clumped together but once you catch one they're done, even on a warrior.

Using Red Battlefield points as an indicator of how op a class is doesn't make sense. Some classes are meant to be finishers while others are incredibly efficient at setting up kills for those who are better suited to take out that particular class in that situation. So naturally, those points don't end up going to classes that do that set up.
 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

DO NOTHING!

People have no real knowledge of how the game is supposed to work and be... they don't play the other classes to learn the tells/animations... they don't know crap...

Sorcs have weaknesses.... people just need to learn them

This, to an extent.

I've tested though. Over hundreds of times with the guild sorcs.
The between transit time is just, not long enough imo.
But that's fine, as when stated before, sorcs are really best at dismounting with their huge 100%.

They put an end to most mounted wizards with no problem whatsoever. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Wizards do not have the range to hide behind other players and do damage, unless the frontline is in the other frontlines face. Which at that point, the fight has started and people are coming through the frontline(unless they know what to do and how to cc) and directly to the wizards to kill first, which isn't always a problem, if you know how to really play wizard.

You can only get hit by both those skills one at a time unless there are two wizards there.

You can iframe the skill, but if you are in it depending on where you are at and the tick passover of the skill, you will get hit while in teleport transit(Speaking of Blizzard).

Residual lightning hits if timed properly, yes. But it's pointless to use if you're teleporting and above 50% hp, as not all of the skill will hit, which is what is required to do damage to your class. Better, smarter, to save it until we can actually hit you.

otherwise you will more than likely escape.

In my experience with Wizard.

sorcs need to rely on their iframes to duck in, do damage, and duck out. Sure wizards might not always have range to go past the front line, but have you also seen the opposite when they're defending a castle and can literally rain hell on people from up top? Sorcs will never benefit from that flexibility. at the end of the day the majority of the time (ie except for a 30 second cd knockdown) sorcs need to be in your face to be a threat, which is not viable without iframes. Yeah your skills might have a cool down and might not be able to cover a whole area, but if you're well enough organized then that won't be an issue bc you'll have other people alongside you spamming DC and RL. I get your point that it's OP in  1v1 / small scale and I respect your opinion and agree. But my point is that the core of the game is really seiges/GvG, and to take away iframes as sorc is basically taking a dump on them and making them  unable to contribute. I don't want any class to be unable to contribute to their guild in GvG, and that's part of the reason why I feel so bad for all the people who rolled Bladers and plums.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If you are Dieing 1v1 to a wizard/witch as any other class you are either severely out geared or have an extra chromosome.

The difference is sorcs will outperform equally geared/skilled opponents in almost all forms of pvp.  Yes they get weaker in very large scale fights (40v40)... BUT ANY MELEE class in any game will have this issue, even in large scale pvp SORCS are undeniably better than War/Valk/Blader. 

war/Valk can also stand behind their sheiks for days and build themselves as big beefy meat shields who's soul purpose is to knock people down then escape.

Every class has their nuance in mass Pvp. Sorcs is not diving into large groups. It's isolating stragglers and over extenders. 

Play a sorc in mass long enough and you reslize engaging in the big fight will quickly result in stray aoe knock downs which in turn become instant death.

i speak in terms of full 15 gear, if you're in mass and don't have full 15 then you don't get to claim anything. You're not even on the same level as the people you're griping about.

you can't sit here with your 120-130 DP and say oh man a sorc (which probably had 130+ AP) killed me too fast! Your gear is trash.

No sorcs, even full 15 sorcs aren't going straight into the middle of groups in 40v40 and getting away with it. You end up burning your Stam in mere seconds, then you die.

you guys claiming sorc can mass Pvp as good as ranger or wiz, or even war/Valk obviously haven't tried it. Moreover you also haven't recognized the proper role for war/Valk or sorc in mass Pvp. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

war/Valk can also stand behind their sheiks for days and build themselves as big beefy meat shields who's soul purpose is to knock people down then escape.

Every class has their nuance in mass Pvp. Sorcs is not diving into large groups. It's isolating stragglers and over extenders. 

Play a sorc in mass long enough and you reslize engaging in the big fight will quickly result in stray aoe knock downs which in turn become instant death.

i speak in terms of full 15 gear, if you're in mass and don't have full 15 then you don't get to claim anything. You're not even on the same level as the people you're griping about.

you can't sit here with your 120-130 DP and say oh man a sorc (which probably had 130+ AP) killed me too fast! Your gear is trash.

No sorcs, even full 15 sorcs aren't going straight into the middle of groups in 40v40 and getting away with it. You end up burning your Stam in mere seconds, then you die.

you guys claiming sorc can mass Pvp as good as ranger or wiz, or even war/Valk obviously haven't tried it. Moreover you also haven't recognized the proper role for war/Valk or sorc in mass Pvp. 

I'm kindly going to have to ask you to leave this thread, common sense doesn't belong in here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

sorcs need to rely on their iframes to duck in, do damage, and duck out. Sure wizards might not always have range to go past the front line, but have you also seen the opposite when they're defending a castle and can literally rain hell on people from up top? Sorcs will never benefit from that flexibility. at the end of the day the majority of the time (ie except for a 30 second cd knockdown) sorcs need to be in your face to be a threat, which is not viable without iframes. Yeah your skills might have a cool down and might not be able to cover a whole area, but if you're well enough organized then that won't be an issue bc you'll have other people alongside you spamming DC and RL. I get your point that it's OP in  1v1 / small scale and I respect your opinion and agree. But my point is that the core of the game is really seiges/GvG, and to take away iframes as sorc is basically taking a dump on them and making them  unable to contribute. I don't want any class to be unable to contribute to their guild in GvG, and that's part of the reason why I feel so bad for all the people who rolled Bladers and plums.

Hm.

I could agree to this. Good point.

war/Valk can also stand behind their sheiks for days and build themselves as big beefy meat shields who's soul purpose is to knock people down then escape.

Every class has their nuance in mass Pvp. Sorcs is not diving into large groups. It's isolating stragglers and over extenders. 

Play a sorc in mass long enough and you reslize engaging in the big fight will quickly result in stray aoe knock downs which in turn become instant death.

i speak in terms of full 15 gear, if you're in mass and don't have full 15 then you don't get to claim anything. You're not even on the same level as the people you're griping about.

you can't sit here with your 120-130 DP and say oh man a sorc (which probably had 130+ AP) killed me too fast! Your gear is trash.

No sorcs, even full 15 sorcs aren't going straight into the middle of groups in 40v40 and getting away with it. You end up burning your Stam in mere seconds, then you die.

you guys claiming sorc can mass Pvp as good as ranger or wiz, or even war/Valk obviously haven't tried it. Moreover you also haven't recognized the proper role for war/Valk or sorc in mass Pvp. 

I'll have to play my sorc more then.

VmSC6ZC.png

This is the loadout I've been playing/testing around with. I don't use the other and my liverto is broken(Got it 2 days ago).
The armor is spec is magic damage reduction.

 

 

Hm.
Well.

I retract my opinion for now. I'll play with sorc more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Hm.

I could agree to this. Good point.

I'll have to play my sorc more then.

VmSC6ZC.png

This is the loadout I've been playing/testing around with. I don't use the other and my liverto is broken(Got it 2 days ago).
The armor is spec is magic damage reduction.

 

 

Hm.
Well.

I retract my opinion for now. I'll play with sorc more.

You would be better off with a 3AP belt and an AP offhand, if you're not abusing your High AP ratio's as a wizard you aren't playing the class to its greatest strengths.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

You would be better off with a 3AP belt and an AP offhand, if you're not abusing your High AP ratio's as a wizard you aren't playing the class to its greatest strengths.

Please refrain from telling me what I'm better off doing :)
I spend a lot of time studying aspects of this game. Note the "playing/testing" comment.

I don't just follow what others say in what they define the greatest strengths just because they say it or heard it from some "top tier player", and I'll go as far as to assume you don't have many Wizard hours logged. I've got around 40 of the 55 days logged of me actually playing the class+ the time from other servers.

I'm quite confident in my ability to test what I'm testing.
You can tell it's testing because I don't have any upgraded accessories I got recently on lol. Not that I guess, anyone but my guild would know that.

Point being, I clearly don't follow what others say and believe. So refrain from getting at what you think works out.

Thanks :)

Edited by War

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Please refrain from telling me what I'm better off doing :)
I spend a lot of time studying aspects of this game. Note the "playing/testing" comment.

I don't just follow what others say in what they define the greatest strengths just because they say it or heard it from some "top tier player", and I'll go as far as to assume you don't have many Wizard hours logged. I've got around 40 of the 55 days logged of me actually playing the class+ the time from other servers.

I'm quite confident in my ability to test what I'm testing.
You can tell it's testing because I don't have any upgraded accessories I got recently on lol. Not that I guess, anyone but my guild would know that.

Point being, I clearly don't follow what others say and believe. So refrain from getting at what you think works out.

Thanks :)

If you aren't abusing a wizards massive AP ratios you are playing the class at a subpar level.

 

That's a fact tbh. Building high dp on a low DP scaling class, great job.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If you aren't abusing a wizards massive AP ratios you are playing the class at a subpar level.

That's a fact tbh. Building high dp on a low DP scaling class, great job.

I'm not going to sit here and argue with someone who doesn't do their own research.
Have a nice day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'm kindly going to have to ask you to leave this thread, common sense doesn't belong in here.

ikr what was I even thinking?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

lolololol

tl;dr version of thread: "NaCl NaCl NaCl NaCl I don't understand how to pvp NaCl NaCl NaCl nerf things so I can keep being bad and not lose as much NaCl NaCl NaCl"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I personally don't think the problems really lay with Sorc. Their defense buffs are probably a bit too strong considering their I-frames and  damage but it's not a huge deal. It's the crappy western servers that make sorcs over-powered...

The whole trick to fighting sorcs is waiting for a gap in their I-frames and punishing them. Thanks to Daum's cheapo' servers this is a joke, and sorcs end up much more tanky than they otherwise should be and they can afford to play a lot more aggressively because of this.

Anyone who has played other regions of the game should know this. If they ever fix these crappy servers, some of these 'newer' sorcs will be in for a shock. Just look at how much 'fun' Bladers and Plums are having. They don't having a D-syncing teleport to protect them...

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

lolololol

tl;dr version of thread: "NaCl NaCl NaCl NaCl I don't understand how to pvp NaCl NaCl NaCl nerf things so I can keep being bad and not lose as much NaCl NaCl NaCl"

lol? My post is TLDR? ?? It's quite brief, so is the part where I say I'm a sorceress, but okay

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

There would be two ways to tackle a Sorceress nerf, namely nerfing their I-frame or nerfing the block on their forward knee. The currently problem with the I-frame of Sorceresses is not that it can be spammed, but rather there is no chance to hit them between I-frames, and unlike Tamer, there is no reasonable way to track your target with your eyes as they I-frame as they disappear. You can reasonably guess which direction they went based off of where they were facing, but knowing the exact position is impossible. I personally believe the best way to tackle a Sorceress nerf would be to remove the block on the forward knee. As it stands, a Sorceress can hit a knockdown from range, and then I-frame in quickly blocking all forward damage from the target as they begin their combo. This is ridiculous, as no assassin class should be rewarded for charging into their target head on, especially when they have such an easy way of closing distance. As it stands, Sorceresses are not rewarded for intelligent play, and are instead rewarded by being able to close distance. By removing this block it would require them to attack while the target is still down on the ground, and not as they are getting up. This means Sorceresses would have to hit their stuns from a closer distance, increasing risk and therefore making the class less of a bullshit invincible assassin without touching the I-frame. A Sorceress who just charges in after their target has recovered from the stun is going to be met with a shotgun/fireball/etc to the face and have their combo interrupted.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

lol? My post is TLDR? ?? It's quite brief, so is the part where I say I'm a sorceress, but okay

Thread, including the poll, your posts, your implications, and many of the responses. It's really nothing new, we get no-post heroes who just did their first sorc PvP running to the sorc subforum all the time to shout about how it's not fair that they need to learn how to play their classes and sorcs need to be nerfed instead.

But hey, at least you mixed it up with a poll I guess?

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If you aren't abusing a wizards massive AP ratios you are playing the class at a subpar level.

 

That's a fact tbh. Building high dp on a low DP scaling class, great job.

I can see this all depending on thresholds.  If you get enough DP to live through a common burst on most gear levels, then hitting that DP threshold even on a class with less DP scaling might be more advantageous.  Your damage output is always 0 when you're dead, regardless of your AP.  I get what you're saying, but cut-and-dry declarations like that are dangerously uncreative.

I actually really enjoyed this video.  TTK is a bit intense, but it's a fast-paced, mistake-punishing match-up where they both have a chance to win.

Wizard awk better be -----ing amazing.Everything in that video disgusts me.

my 55 ranger disgusts me.

I was pleasantly surprised to see both classes have a chance.  I was expecting some "demonstration of how terrible the game is in KR" video, but instead it looks like the match-up could go either way based on who lands their CC.  I've seen worse ways to do PvP, even if this happens to be extraordinarily punishing for mistakes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This topic is now closed to further replies.