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How can we coexist? Keep on topic plz

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Posted

A lot of heated discussions on the forums regarding owpvp pk pvp and pve exist today. Most plans focus on segregation or punishment for killing unflagged players.

Punishment is only one way to handle behavior in a gaming community. What other options can we come up with to make the system work well for both sides?

Can we remove the experience loss if a player is killed by another player? Can we grant a buff of protection for pve players upon completing a pve related task so they can safely travel in the world if they choose?

What are some reasonable alternatives to severe punishments and or segregation? Since pk is a system built into the game, we should be focusing on how we can make it work rather than demanding it go away.

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Posted

We CAN coexist as I mentioned so many times in other threads i'll just quote myself again: "Many of us just want a proper flagging system like in Lineage II however they brushed it aside with the excuse that "players will let the mobs get last hit avoiding the karma penalty". You cannot see another players HP numbers so this was an extremely weak excuse not to use such a system. Give us a proper flagging system and honestly karma gain/loss won't even mean much "

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Posted

You talk about coexisting yet you want to provide free pass for pve only players. Sounds a bit biased to me.

At this point the only solution is to have the game released as soon as possible and start building a proper community with whoever decides to stick with it. As of right now there is just so many clueless people spreading information that is quite detrimental.

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Posted

The game systems are working fine (karma, possible megaserver, etc.), just the vocal (minority)PvP scene in this forum, who either quit or barely plays KR, want to get everything handed to them as they're probably the laziest PvP scene I've ever witnessed.

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Posted

The game systems are working fine (karma, possible megaserver, etc.), just the vocal (minority)PvP scene in this forum, who either quit or barely plays KR, want to get everything handed to them as they're probably the laziest PvP scene I've ever witnessed.

Considering EVERYTHING so far in the diaries has been catered towards following KR BDO with the possible mega server and just about everything related to pvp I'd say the pve people are the ones who have been screaming the loudest about everything. Sounds like these guys are the ones who want everything handed to em 

 

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Posted

The game systems are working fine (karma, possible megaserver, etc.), just the vocal (minority)PvP scene in this forum, who either quit or barely plays KR, want to get everything handed to them as they're probably the laziest PvP scene I've ever witnessed.

410729.gif

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Posted

I actually want owpvp in this game. I am lousy at pvp but I love the idea of living in a dangerous world where pk exists. If I want to be completely safe I would go play wildstar or <insert cuddly pve only game here>.

I don't want severe penalties that will make this part of the game nonexistent. That being said, I would like to see some creative players come up with some alternate solutions that both sides can endorse.

If the penalties are reduced, it increases the risk to the carebears. What can we give them to compensate their increased risk?

I don't want total immunity all the time, but if an option, even a challenging one existed to allivate some risk for a short time, that could make a difference.

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Posted

The game systems are working fine (karma, possible megaserver, etc.), just the vocal (minority)PvP scene in this forum, who either quit or barely plays KR, want to get everything handed to them as they're probably the laziest PvP scene I've ever witnessed.

Thing is, the current karma and flagging system heavily favors the non PvP player, so of course whenever there is a suggestion or complaint about it in regards to encouraging owPvP it's easy to just say "what a bunch of babies". I hear a lot of people saying that the PvE side is fine with the game, it's the PvP people crying, and that's true. Maybe, just maybe, it's because the systems in place favor the PvE player? A PvE centric player already has everything handed to them.

Take karma for example. A PKer has everything to lose by going under negative karma, and very little to gain. The reward isn't there for the already present risk. Suggest ways to correct this and the carebears wail.

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Posted

I don't get why they would punish PK withoug griefing. Sanctions for PKing shouldn't include the destruction of enchants.
I think Karma is a good system that encourages interaction between players. But with such sanctions it seems to just push away the ones willing to make the first move...

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Posted (edited)

The only reason I seem daum trying so hard to appease the PVE group is because they're wanting to go the one megaserver route. Unfortunately, trying to appease everyone is the downfall of most game developers.

 

It simply comes down to short term greed, instead of long term sustainability. There are no raid dungeons or endgame PVE-focused events, just hard grinding to the next exponentially harder level and that's not something the west is keen on. Tailoring systems to the carebear population when your endgame won't sustain them is absurd. The politics, seiging, node control, and OWPvP will keep the PVP crowd around. Once the PVE crowd hits the 50 cap they're imposing in the 6-10 hours it takes to get there, we'll see if they stick around.

 

I hope you're making the right decisions Daum.

SWG or second life.  that is the best answer .   take a look at it and see how differently a sandbox plays than the standard themepark wow clone.  in a sandbox raiding and dungeons are usually things that get added after, they are not necessary to sustain a happy pve playing base.  the same reason pking is not necessary to sustain a happy pvp playing base.

Edited by Aylindel

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Posted

The game systems are working fine (karma, possible megaserver, etc.), just the vocal (minority)PvP scene in this forum, who either quit or barely plays KR, want to get everything handed to them as they're probably the laziest PvP scene I've ever witnessed.

Are you serious? 

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Posted

The game systems are working fine (karma, possible megaserver, etc.)

Are you on drugs?

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Posted (edited)

 Primitive you seem to be the one confused,  I merely underlined that this game as a sandbox does not needs to rely on raiding nor dungeons to keep a decent pve population.   for the same reason pvp does not needs to rely on pking at least you think that only Eve online have proven a successful pvp model when it comes to MMO.

instead of trying to act out tough and nasty, you could try to keep your replies in a civic manner, instead of jumping like a rabid dog on people s throats .  as soon someone points out something to you.

Edited by Aylindel
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Posted

 

Sounds like more confusion from someone whose gaming pedigree includes spreadsheet simulator 2003 and "that one game where people dance for money".

 

BDO isn't a sandbox btw. Not even close.

yes , it is a War simulator for War Veterans with posttraumatic stress disorder,9_9

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Posted

We can coexist when pvers stop whining and trying to change the game which is just stupid and wrong and would not be tolerated in a game made years ago. That being said, i'll probably mostly even focus on pve myself since i don't enjoy going around to pk random people that are pveing and are undergeared or lower level than me 

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Posted

IMHO:
The game and the games map is big enough for everyone.
As long as they stop thinking that everyone has to follow their believes. =/

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Posted

I've been discussing this topic a bit here:

It seems that most players (Both PvE and PvP) are 100% fine with the old KR CBT karma system once it's explained, which can be explained as thus (check out the thread if you have more questions @insert_brain did an awesome writeup!):

 

3 - SYSTEM EXPLANATION

- Current System

The current system is rather simple: when you attack a white player, you become flagged: your name becomes red and anyone can attack you without becoming flagged themselves. If you kill the player you attacked, you will receive negative karma (currently -60K) and your character will stay flagged (red) for a period of time (this means anyone can still attack you without becoming red). If they kill you, they lose no karma and stay white.

- KR CBT Flagging

The KR CBT flagging adds an additional transition to the name colours: purple. Purple indicates a PvP state, so to say. When you attack a white player, you become flagged and your name turns purple. At this point, if someone attacks you they will become purple as well. When a player kills a purple player he gains no negative karma. After the kill, you will remain purple for a period of time.

On the other hand, if you attack and kill a white player (i.e., someone who is minding their own business and not fighting you back or a low level player), you will become red and you will lose karma (currently 60K). As with the current system, you will stay red for a period of time and red players can be attacked by any other player without these players becoming purple themselves.

If I was not clear enough and you have questions, first I apologise and second you can refer to this youtube video, which explains the system extremely well (just the flagging and karma part, ignore the PvP kill and Pk kill counters).

4 - PRO AND CONS

- Current System

Pros:

-  Prevents players from repeatedly killing the same player. Prevents ganking and zerg to a degree, meaning you can still kill a low level or zerg, but just a few times. After that you will go red and can just reroll your character.

Cons (based off previous threads and personal experience):

- Heavy limits consensual PvP. If two players engage in PvP over a grinding spot, for example, and after one of the two dies they want to come back and keep fighting, this will result one of them going red. That is because only the first one attacking will always be loosing karma for killing the other, therefore preventing them from continuing the fight.

- Can be abused to feed negative karma to a player. If player A kills player B who is kill stealing his mobs, player A will be flagged (red). Player B can quickly come back before player A can unflag (this is no conjecture, it is possible) and attack again player A freely, because A is still flagged. Now if A fights back to protect himself and kills B, he will lose again 60K karma (because remember, A is red and B is still white). Player B can rinse and repeat the process until satisfied. 

- People resort to alternate forms of griefing. Since, as I explained above, killing a player can throw your character in a negative karma vortex, player decided that it is not worth killing other players anymore. They therefore resorted to griefing through kill stealing and crowd control (CC). A player that wants to send you out of a spot will keep stealing the mobs you're killing over and over, forcing you either to move away or to flag to kill him (with the consequences explained above). Alternatively, they can flag on you and chain CC you while you grind and your hp are low, to get you killed by the mobs.

- KR CBT Flagging

Pros:

- Prevents players from repeatedly killing the same player if said players does not want to fight. Prevents ganking (realistically, a low level will always be one shotted, therefore killed while white) and zerg (same as for ganking) to a degree, meaning you can still kill a low level or zerg, but just a few times. After that you will go red and can just reroll your character.

- Allows for consensual PvP and skirmishes to happen. In the example from before, two players can keep fighting each other over a spot/boss/whatever to their heart's content, without going red just because they wanted to PvP each other.

Cons (based off the complaints against this system in previous threads):

- Some feel that if one player attacks you, he should lose something even if you fight back. Easy fix: This can easily be addressed by adding an appropriate karma loss upon attacking someone white. This would still penalise the attacker, even if the other player fights back, so people can't be forced into PvP indefinitely. At the same time, this would allow for repeated consensual PvP (the example above) as after killing a purple player, you will remain purple for a certain amount of time. The other player can come back and attack you again (and become purple) without taking the karma penalty, as you are still purple. So consensual PvP is also preserved. 

- Some feel that this system is too easy to exploit to force PvP in the following way: if player A attacks B and becomes purple, A can then jump into one of B's AoE attacks to force him to flag and then freely kill him. Easy fix: this can be fixed in different ways. 1 - Make it so that (keeping the same example) player B has to attack pressing a special button (force an attack) in order to hit player A, so that A can't just jump into an AoE and force B to become purple. Or 2 - player B needs to hit player A more than once before becoming purple.

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Posted

 

Your answer with a failed game that does not share any of the mechanics with BDO, while simultaneously pointing out that neither PVP or PVE players sustain a game sounds like you're severely confused on what you're trying to convey....or you're just wanting to be a part of a conversation somehow and watch yourself type.

ROFL! :P

6d1.jpg

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Posted

Pvpers and Pvers coexist, griefers don't.

I don't know why people chose to go against logic when it's presented right in front of them.

Daum and Pa interests are money, so they want to game to succeed and have a healthy community.

They chose to favor the non griefing players hence those are the majority, this act will result in more people and more money for them.

yet every griefer will say the exact opposite: 
"servers will be dead" - why? you are clearly the smallest group, as a pvper I enjoy the vast other pvp activity more than pking

"this game is not for you" - it is clear after all those announcements that this game is for us and not for you.....

for ending: a pvper is not a griefer who cowardly pk's undergeard players and expects to get away with it just to boost his self esteem.

Let the griefers rage whine and cry, there is a reason Daum ignores them, Daum actions speaks for what they care about and it's not you, swallow your pride and play or as you kindly suggests to all pver's, go find another game.

 

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Posted (edited)

Pvpers and Pvers coexist, griefers don't.

I don't know why people chose to go against logic when it's presented right in front of them.

Daum and Pa interests are money, so they want to game to succeed and have a healthy community.

They chose to favor the non griefing players hence those are the majority, this act will result in more people and more money for them.

yet every griefer will say the exact opposite: 
"servers will be dead" - why? you are clearly the smallest group, as a pvper I enjoy the vast other pvp activity more than pking

"this game is not for you" - it is clear after all those announcements that this game is for us and not for you.....

for ending: a pvper is not a griefer who cowardly pk's undergeard players and expects to get away with it just to boost his self esteem.

Let the griefers rage whine and cry, there is a reason Daum ignores them, Daum actions speaks for what they care about and it's not you, swallow your pride and play or as you kindly suggests to all pver's, go find another game.

 

i agree so why no remove the open pvp world ? just remove the PK then. I don't get it why this game got an open pvp world instead of open world.

just to say us : if you want pk, you can ? 

Edited by Grimbergen

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Posted

Pvpers and Pvers coexist, griefers don't.

They chose to favor the non griefing players hence those are the majority

 

Yeah how'd that work out in KBDO? Oh right, it completely destroyed the game. Our version is pretty much their last chance to get it right and they are doing nothing but following in the exact same footsteps. 

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Posted

I've been discussing this topic a bit here:

It seems that most players (Both PvE and PvP) are 100% fine with the old KR CBT karma system once it's explained, which can be explained as thus (check out the thread if you have more questions @insert_brain did an awesome writeup!):

 

I know some don't like the fact that the aggressor is not penalised, but that can be addressed easily. More importantly, what I don't understand is what Bel means when he says that this system can be exploited. The example about letting a mob deal the finishing blow on the player you're attacking didn't really make much sense to me, since you can do that already :/ Any idea?

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Posted (edited)

 

Yeah how'd that work out in KBDO? Oh right, it completely destroyed the game. Our version is pretty much their last chance to get it right and they are doing nothing but following in the exact same footsteps. 

you have no clue what happend you just pick an element and pin the game failure on it, it might have been the f2p model combined with  the pricey cash shop. But like griefers in other threads who chose to view the most suitable pov you came with the conclusion that fits your needs.

They want their game to succeed (unless you think they want it to crush) they know what happen in kr yet they chose this, I guess that means it was not the reason. those people jobs depend on it and they decided it should be this way, my bet is that they know better than a biased player.

Edited by pidish

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Posted

I know some don't like the fact that the aggressor is not penalised, but that can be addressed easily. More importantly, what I don't understand is what Bel means when he says that this system can be exploited. The example about letting a mob deal the finishing blow on the player you're attacking didn't really make much sense to me, since you can do that already :/ Any idea?

I had a suggestion answering that in particular, if Player B dies to a mob, 10 seconds after taking damage from Player A, Player A gains 50% of the karma loss, that they would have gained from outright killing them.

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Posted

you have no clue what happend you just pick an element and pin the game failure on it, it might have been the f2+ model combining the pricey cash shop. But like griefers in other threads who chose to view the most suitable pov you came with the conclusion that fits your needs.

They want their game to succeed (unless you think they want it to crush) they know what happen in kr yet they chose this, I guess that means it was not the reason. those people jobs depend on it and they decided it should be this way, my bet is that they know better than a biased player.

If that isn't what happened why are they trying to band-aid the situation over there by slowly adding back elements that encourage pvp- which btw is making players return to the game? While I do not know the absolute true purpose of what caused this game to flop there them catering fully to one side of the playerbase did indeed cause their overall playerbase to rapidly decline 

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