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What is PKing

79 posts in this topic

Posted

First off I'll preface this by asking the community have you all PERSONALLY ever really been PKed so badly in open world to the point you avoid open world PvP like the plague? No? Thought so. 

Personally I've never been killed by randoms while grinding in ANY mmo and the times I have been killed were by groups of players who knew who I was and either were in opposing guilds/factions or disliked me, I will state my bias here because I do find those sort of encounters fun, and that is what attracted me to Black Desert. 

Now I will also state that the forums are often full of doom and gloom and whiny shit everywhere, the only times I've seen these horror stories about random players spawn camping a player and PKing him are on... You guessed it, the forums, and 9/10 times that situation was self inflicted.

 

The purpose of this thread is to let those who think open world PvP is just for straight PKing know that it serves other purposes and the reality is that PKing isn't all that rampant as people make it out to be. 

PKing in the sense that most people see it as is a high level killing a lowbie, open world pvp wont start til 50+ at which point you're no longer a newbie or lowbie and have had a lot of time to build a support system by then. 

The "PKing" that us PvPers want is the ability to encounter random enemies and fight without consequences(or at least without being HEAVILY penalized), we want to have small spontaneous skirmishes in the open world, we also want to be able to compete for grind spots by fighting it out (again will only happen at 50+). Killing open world PvP because of some unfounded fear of some big bad guy spawn camping you all day isn't fair considering that chances of that happening are HIGHLY unlikely.

 

In a setting like black desert which contains a lot of politics, consequences for being a "PKer" should come from the community and not the game, when the game starts getting too involved (like the horrible karma system) player interaction lessens. For example if you're being spawn camped by a certain player you join a guild for protection rather than be that guy who wants to solo everything, you're not Kirito and if you do want to be Kirito don't complain about being PKed. You can also create a PKer kill on sight list with the community, with the recent surge of PvErs who are all posting against PKing turning the forums into a carebear cesspool you'd think they'd use their numbers to ban together and fight against the "PKers"

TL;DR Don't kill open world PvP because of unlikely "PK" scenarios, you won't be spawn camped, and rather than get baby sat by in game mechanics (karma system) build your own support group if a PK scenario does happen. 

Read my post above for reasons why us PvPers do want open world pvp.

I'll apologize in advanced for any typos/grammar erros since I'm on my phone.

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Posted

PK = Player's King!

ALL BOW DOWN TO THE PK!

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Posted (edited)

That's not pk'ing (well, it is, by current BDO definition), it's all owPvP... which BDO lacks and most propably will continue to lack, cause you know:

We brought up the old flagging system that many PKers requested. But it doesn’t really solve the issue as it brings up new issues. Such as the possibility to avoid the Karma penalty by attacking a player while he is engaged with monsters until he ultimately gets killed by the monsters (last hit). This way you could simply avoid getting the penalty for the kill, as the final strike would have been executed by the monster, not the player.

 REASONS!

("PKers requested", huehueh)

Edited by Narcosis
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Posted (edited)

Flagging and randomly attacking a player, ie I'm minding my own business, and some idiot flags and starts attacking me without warning. Whether I die or not, that's PK.

Edit: And you DO have open world PVP - GvG and sieges are all open world. What you don't have is a game that allows you to PK without consequences. So if you're going to ask for it, be honest about what you're asking for - a game that doesn't punish PK.

Edited by Thaiden
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Posted

I enjoy that crime is punished by the system and not just by the community, it's as it should be.

 

I do think some leniency needs to be made for consensual PvP in the world, but I'm very pro PK penalties and consequences

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Posted (edited)

First off I'll preface this by asking the community have you all PERSONALLY ever really been PKed so badly in open world...

Personally I've never been killed by randoms while grinding in ANY mmo...

 

 

Before I start, let me make it clear I am completely for open world PvP.

Let me give you some examples:

Archeage: People killing others whilst grinding is not uncommon at all, but to emphasize on this - Green Pirate guilds (PK Guilds) and Reds (Opposite faction Players) would group up in mass to gank people trying to do world events several times a day just for the fun of it. On top of that, world events are available for a limited amount of time. So often the world event would never get completed.

EvE: Getting ganked anywhere in lowsec is pretty much a given. No matter what someone will try to kill you, especially if you're trying to mine. Not really a whole lot of gain for ganking in lowsec besides the ore you might get from a miner and the kill report. 

Mortal Online: I've watched guilds gank noobs in the middle of the starting town, reap new players in the graveyard while they are trying to level their skills and get some income, kill the priest so they can't respawn, and on top of that the game is full loot death, so they'd lose everything. They'd do this all day long. There was no gain for them doing so.

Edited by Illusive
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Posted

Flagging and randomly attacking a player, ie I'm minding my own business, and some idiot flags and starts attacking me without warning. Whether I die or not, that's PK.

Edit: And you DO have open world PVP - GvG and sieges are all open world. What you don't have is a game that allows you to PK without consequences. So if you're going to ask for it, be honest about what you're asking for - a game that doesn't punish PK.

There are consequences so stop saying otherwise.

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Posted

Flagging and randomly attacking a player, ie I'm minding my own business, and some idiot flags and starts attacking me without warning. Whether I die or not, that's PK.

Edit: And you DO have open world PVP - GvG and sieges are all open world. What you don't have is a game that allows you to PK without consequences. So if you're going to ask for it, be honest about what you're asking for - a game that doesn't punish PK.

Everyone says that they are innocent and that they are minding their own business and they still get PK. So tell me when, where, how, and why you got PK. If some of you guys who like the current karma would do this I think we can work towards a solution

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Posted

Flagging and randomly attacking a player, ie I'm minding my own business, and some idiot flags and starts attacking me without warning. Whether I die or not, that's PK.

Edit: And you DO have open world PVP - GvG and sieges are all open world. What you don't have is a game that allows you to PK without consequences. So if you're going to ask for it, be honest about what you're asking for - a game that doesn't punish PK.

So are you telling me you'd enjoy your guild being warred on everytime one of your members pissed off someone else? 

As I've said the game heavily revolves around politics, should you be killed without warning then do something about it. I'll have you know that if you're in a grind spot I want or come into a spot I'm grinding in I will kill you, and no at that point you're not just "minding your business" and I'm being honest, I should have to suffer consequences/penalties, if after killing you, your guild (or you) wants to kill me back and make my life hell over my actions go for it thats the fun in all this.

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Posted

There are consequences so stop saying otherwise.

I'm not saying there aren't lol. I'm saying that all of the demands about flagging and karma are from PKers who don't want there to be.

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Posted

Everyone says that they are innocent and that they are minding their own business and they still get PK. So tell me when, where, how, and why you got PK. If some of you guys who like the current karma would do this I think we can work towards a solution

For arguments sake, let's say questing, or grinding quietly in a corner. Let's not pretend there aren't griefers in PVP games, because we all know there are - hell our guild's entire PK policy is designed with griefers in mind.

The solution is the one we already have - punish PK, allow all other forms of PVP to continue in the open world as they already do.

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Posted

@Thaiden If you are questing in an area that isn't a top grind zone then no one is going to kill you, and if someone does then that is one time out of a million and tough shit. If you are grinding in a zone then you are taking away exp, silver, and items from other players and you should be killed.

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Posted (edited)

That's the main issue with this is that either you aren't innocent or you aren't going to be killed by another player. So this only affects the people who want to pvp and the people who don't are the main one trying to influence the system, and from what they are saying and who they are. They don't have experience with the game and have no idea how these changes actually affect the game. This isn't even between pvp and pve.

Edited by NamePending
added more.

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Posted

I'm not saying there aren't lol. I'm saying that all of the demands about flagging and karma are from PKers who don't want there to be.

Wrong. Most are asking for a simple reduction in karma penalty and no karma loss if the opponent retaliates.

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Posted

That's the main issue with this is that either you aren't innocent or you aren't going to be killed by another player. So this only affects the people who want to pvp and the people who don't are the main one trying to influence the system, and from what they are saying and who they are. They don't have experience with the game and have no idea how these changes actually affect the game. This isn't even between pvp and pve.

No the main issue is people under the impression they "own" a spot. This line of thinking is exactly why we have the karma and flagging systems that we do in the first place, and clearly demonstrates why they're needed.

You don't own mobs, or areas, and someone questing or grinding in the same vicinity as you isn't stealing your shit. Either get better at out DPSing mobs or move on. If you flag and throw a tantrum then you deserve negative karma - simple :)

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Posted

Wrong. Most are asking for a simple reduction in karma penalty and no karma loss if the opponent retaliates.

Not wrong - you've just repeated the exact same phrase that all people who want to PK freely are using. If the opponent retaliates then they're defending themselves from a PKer. That doesn't in any way legitimise what the attacker has done, the attacker has still flagged on another player. All it means is their chosen 'victim' isn't prepared to sit there and take it.

There should absolutely be karma loss for the attacker, because the attacker is PKing.

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Posted (edited)

No the main issue is people under the impression they "own" a spot. This line of thinking is exactly why we have the karma and flagging systems that we do in the first place, and clearly demonstrates why they're needed.

You don't own mobs, or areas, and someone questing or grinding in the same vicinity as you isn't stealing your shit. Either get better at out DPSing mobs or move on. If you flag and throw a tantrum then you deserve negative karma - simple :)

If a player is a higher level, has better gear, and/or has more skill then you, If that player wishes to kill you to keep the grind spot, then yes they do own that spot until someone stronger comes and takes it. Unless they take out pvp entirely then no amount a -----ing, or " ways of thinking" is going to change that.

Edited by NamePending
-----ed up

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Posted

If a player is a higher level, has better gear, and/or has more skill then you, If that player wishes to kill you to keep the grind spot, then yes they do own that spot until someone stronger comes and takes it. Unless they take out pvp entirely then no amount a -----ing, or " ways of thinking" is going to change that.

Then so be it, but if you make that choice, don't then moan about the consequences :P

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Posted

Not wrong - you've just repeated the exact same phrase that all people who want to PK freely are using. If the opponent retaliates then they're defending themselves from a PKer. That doesn't in any way legitimise what the attacker has done, the attacker has still flagged on another player. All it means is their chosen 'victim' isn't prepared to sit there and take it.

There should absolutely be karma loss for the attacker, because the attacker is PKing.

If you are outside of a safe zone then you are no longer a victim. Any game content that does not directly take from another player can all be done in a town.

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Posted

Then so be it, but if you make that choice, don't then moan about the consequences :P

What I am saying is that I don't want to treat my fellow players like babies and actually want to do something, I think it is -----ed that you can think taking from someone does not call for punishment and that punishment is death in BDO. What the current karma system is doing makes it so that if I punish them then I no longer have a character and lose all my shit. 

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Posted

Currently if you display any aggression in the open world outside of structured events you are a PKer, by BDO standards. I hope this changes in a way that people who want to fight can do so without loss of karma, while a system remains in place to protect "the victims". The current system has no business preventing PvP between people who want to PvP.

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Posted

Currently if you display any aggression in the open world outside of structured events you are a PKer, by BDO standards. I hope this changes in a way that people who want to fight can do so without loss of karma, while a system remains in place to protect "the victims". The current system has no business preventing PvP between people who want to PvP.

As harsh as it might sound I think that everyone needs to either accept that if you leave town you have a reason to be killed or daum should just disable owpvp and make all pvp structured because if we look at korea, you give someone an inch and they take a mile.

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Posted

Anyone can come up with 50 horror stories about ganking. But  lets jsut be realistic. Those stories always come from games where it is accepted AND designed for it.

 

EVE Online, last of the true MMO's where the onus is on YOU THE PLAYER to look out for yourself. There is no "ganking and griefing" in EVE it is all part of the game and people are expected to either deal with it an learn to play within that system, or play something els.

 

Mortal Online, again  a little bit of a joke of a game. VERY tiny player base of little to no concern to anyone in MMO industry.

 

World pvp is about you the player being responsible for yourself. Not held by hand. World pvp is a bout you out an about an you see someone mining, grinding whatever.... You can then deside do I attack him an risk pissing him off so he will come after me, or do I try to make friends an have someone new to watch my back... or is he a member of a hated guild... DO I call in my guild mates (you DO have a guild right???).... point is, its down to you not the devs.

 

post above me about "owning" a spot. OK so he owns that spot, big deal???. Why cant you take it off him?.

 

You new going in that a pvp system means you need to fight and defend yourself right ??.

One of the things that bugs me is pve players see a game they like, then find out its world pvp... They make a beline for forums to wind up all the other pvers with stories that jsut dont matter to anyone about getting killed, an suddenly we have a full blown crusade to change the game to their standards.

 

Ask a PK how many times they get killed in world pvp and if it has ruined their lives, or made them emotionally scard(always love that one)... No they go back an kill him till he leaves. or if they cant do it, they ask others to come help them chase off the  enemy.. SO you see what just happened??.. world pvp happened.. no grand stories of harassment bullying an destroying your game time.. No, pvp as it is meant to be.

 

Punishing PK's? LOL for what, playing the game as it is meant to be played.

Honestly pve players need to get out of this frame of mine that they are some sort chosen ones an being professional victims only hurts the overall game. Grow a spine an deal with it like an adult. You were not griefed, nor ganked you were killed in a PVP GAME

 

My last word Can someone please tell me how Anti's got so weak willed in last 10 years.. It is really sad for the gaming industry of MMO's. Old school Antis would laugh at this rubbish. They were every bit as brutal an vengeful as us PK's. But now its all just complain complain complain till devs change a game designed for world pvp, so the little darlings feel safe....

---------------------------------------------------------

paste of a true PK,

  28 minutes ago, Thaiden said:

Flagging and randomly attacking a player, ie I'm minding my own business, and some idiot flags and starts attacking me without warning. Whether I die or not, that's PK.

Edit: And you DO have open world PVP - GvG and sieges are all open world. What you don't have is a game that allows you to PK without consequences. So if you're going to ask for it, be honest about what you're asking for - a game that doesn't punish PK.

So are you telling me you'd enjoy your guild being warred on everytime one of your members pissed off someone else? 

As I've said the game heavily revolves around politics, should you be killed without warning then do something about it. I'll have you know that if you're in a grind spot I want or come into a spot I'm grinding in I will kill you, and no at that point you're not just "minding your business" and I'm being honest, I should have to suffer consequences/penalties, if after killing you, your guild (or you) wants to kill me back and make my life hell over my actions go for it thats the fun in all this.

I am gonna be totally honest here, I dont think any pve player here even knows what a PK is. all they can see is someone killed them, it isn't fair they want to change the game to their way ... Period.

 

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Posted (edited)

As harsh as it might sound I think that everyone needs to either accept that if you leave town you have a reason to be killed or daum should just disable owpvp and make all pvp structured because if we look at korea, you give someone an inch and they take a mile.

I agree, I'd prefer owPvP be disabled than a half assed attempt. Put more effort into PvE and instanced PvP instead.

Edited by CandyLand

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Posted (edited)

A little thing we used back in the day was called /peace. Now this wont always work an some PK's ignore it totally. But you pve players who see MMos as a endless grind for money an no risks involved, could try it sometime. if you see someone coming towards you "try /peace" an see if he accepts it. You would be surprised How many guys will  v the few that will attack anyone.

personally, It works for me every time.But then I am an oldschool player so....

Edited by Froggie

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