• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

Make Cash Shop accountbound!

302 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Hm. Nope. No account bound. If you're not rolling in dough from working and not playing the majority of your weekly time you probably have enough time to make enough money to buy the stuff the people are working to buy and probably don't have enough time to play.

I mean sure. there are anomalies who have a crap ton of money without working but don't punish the rest of us on account that they exist.

Yours truly
Out of the house 50+ hours a week guy.

 

Oh, another note. What about the people who have tons of time to play the game but not enough money to be spending on the game to buy clothes but want clothes, etc. etc. etc.

Sorry. Your method kills off the balance of basic MMORPG economy from that standpoint.

Making the entire cash shop non account bound may be one of the best ways TO get rid of pay to win. Keeps a balance between the out of game $$$ holders, and the in game $$$ holders. Because in order to get what the people who have the gold want to get, they have to buy it from the people who may not have the gold but have the $$$ to buy from the cash shop.

Again, there are anomalies. But hey. There often are.
Game comes out tomorrow. I'd rather be able to play the beta after work(won't get to play this morning because you know. Work.) then have them redo the entire concept of MMORPG economy.(I think at least. tbh it might be worth it.) 
Might give me more time to play star citizen, yeah.

 

Making the in game cash shop non-account bound also holds merit for killing off gold spammers/sellers. Not entirely but deters the notion of it. This way there is little reason to risk ones account if they can buy / sell items to people who want them for the gold. Makes both parties happy.
What you're asking for will make a lot of both parties upset.

I wanted the winter outfit.
But couldn't get it.
Because I can't use silver in the cash shop.
RIP.

If your solution to this is for "everyone to just get a job" sod off.

Again.
Yours Truly. . .
I need to sleep so that I can get up at 5am and not enjoy the CBT you are going to be able to out silver farm me in~
Account bound cash limit? k. Playtime limit. It's only fair.

Edited by War
2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I'm with you, War.  The price of costumes will be driven by those with more time to play, and likely those without jobs who can do nothing but farm.  all.  day.

Sorry, but I have a demanding job, and like War I don't get the luxury of playing 12 hours per day to farm up silver to pay for my enchantments.  I am offended by the concept that those unburdened by the need to work 50-60 hours per week get an unfair advantage in the game just because they can play all day.  Costumes must be sellable to ensure that those of us who can't just plaster ourselves to the keyboard can maintain the same advantage that those who can sit in front of the monitor and kill, as most have admitted, completely unchallenging mobs all day can obtain.

Shoe feels a bit awkward on the other foot, doesn't it?

Edited by AtmaTheWanderer
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Hello there,

To keep things short, make all cash shop items account bound/untradeable to avoid pay to win.

I couldn't agree more, or said it better. Please, for a long future of such a beautiful game, stay away from pay to win. Death to the Gold Spammers!

Edited by Tesla
Reason for edit, to edit, of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Costumes should be tradable

1. We all want the game to succeed, so BDO needs to make a good amount of money

2. Players without a lot of money should be able to get costumes with what they farm online, especially when a lot of gear looks the same und Costumes feel much more like a must have for a decent look

About the P2W abuse, the problem is that it is spammable to sell costumes untill you have the amount of money you want, just put a 1week or 2 week timer in the AH for Costumes or Cashshop items, so you can use real money to stock up your silver but nobody is able to completely outgear other Players with the means of real money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Costumes should be tradable

1. We all want the game to succeed, so BDO needs to make a good amount of money

2. Players without a lot of money should be able to get costumes with what they farm online, especially when a lot of gear looks the same und Costumes feel much more like a must have for a decent look

About the P2W abuse, the problem is that it is spammable to sell costumes untill you have the amount of money you want, just put a 1week or 2 week timer in the AH for Costumes or Cashshop items, so you can use real money to stock up your silver but nobody is able to completely outgear other Players with the means of real money.

1. so pay2win is the best model?look at the sucessful games,they are NOT p2w and dont have a tradable cash shop.

2. 5-10€ for a permanent costume should be appropiate. I dont know any person that cant spare 5-10€(thats what a smoker spends just for smoking a DAY)

About the P2W abuse,no matter how you look at it,you pay for the costume. Be it with time,be it with money. So stop selling your asses for a mere 0.50€ a hour just to get a costume for petes sake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

1. so pay2win is the best model?look at the sucessful games,they are NOT p2w and dont have a tradable cash shop.

2. 5-10€ for a permanent costume should be appropiate. I dont know any person that cant spare 5-10€(thats what a smoker spends just for smoking a DAY)

About the P2W abuse,no matter how you look at it,you pay for the costume. Be it with time,be it with money. So stop selling your asses for a mere 0.50€ a hour just to get a costume for petes sake

That's a very ignorant perception and observation.

I don't appreciate it.
Simply because you do not know anyone who doesn't have <x amount> of money does not justify what you're trying to say.
In fact, in my opinion it makes you look like a desperate jerk.

What you're asking for will crap on the game for people who do not have the money to expend, but have the time to grind for in game currency to expend on what they want, that way they aren't left out.

And being left out in a game can generally lead to people quitting.
and people quitting equates a loss of funds.
And a loss of funds equates a crappier game.

On a side note? I don't know where you recieved these conceptions of "pay 2 win" but they are deeply flawed regarding the original meaning of the term.

stop_it_hellboy.gif

With everything tradable, the economy dictates what is worth what.
This "Pay to win" shit makes like no sense to me by how you define it.
Either way you have to work to win.
If you don't have the money, you work in game, more hours.
If you don't have the time to spend in game, you (Hopefully) probably work outside of the game, and have currency to spend on the game, to potentially receive in-game currency using what you've spent your "out of game currency" on.

Dude I don't know what types of games you play, or if you really know how this system works? but removing it would seriously hurt any MMORPG economy.

You seem like a snobby rich kid.
And I don't like competition among us rich kids.

Sit down.

Edited by War
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

if its cosmetic no combat it should be toon bound

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

+1 for accbound cashshop
nothing more to say

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Alright. Either way if there is boosting stuff in the cash shop(there is on KR) people with loads of money are going to end up having the advantage anyways. By doing this you're cutting out the people who will have mostly loads of silver but not capable of spending $$$ on the game.

Man. Alright.

Y'all gon learn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Hello all,

 

I actually like the Idea that it isnt Account bound, i mean lets be honest that wouldnt change much of the Gameplay rather changing Fish prices and other stuff :P

The Reason why i actually would like that is because there still a lot of People that doesnt want to spend Money.. or just cant because of Age or whatever  have still the Chance to get it

Or just image  a Friend of you  want  something bad but cant get it and you think socialized how you are, What ever im gonna get it for you then you are able to it.(Possible in Advanced  Trade system hopefully :P)

So i like the fact that you are able to  Sell it, to avoid Abusers you also could  make them only aviable on Marketplace, but force  very low Prices to those Items that nobody can make profit of it.

Hopefully my  add doesnt sounds to stupid :P

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

What you're asking for will crap on the game for people who do not have the money to expend, but have the time to grind for in game currency to expend on what they want, that way they aren't left out.

And being left out in a game can generally lead to people quitting.
and people quitting equates a loss of funds.
And a loss of funds equates a crappier game.

while my problem with the cash shop is rather that it'll have p2w items (seeing the RU cash shop where everything gives you some kind of advantage, rather than being a pure cosmetic item or no) than whether it will be bound or not, your reasoning is flawed because you think there are only people with time and people with money. if the cash shop allows you to buy silver indirectly and also gives you ingame advantages (which it currently does on all versions of the game), the people who are left out aren't those without money, but rather those without time.

so you'll end up with those that have both dominating everyone (since they can grind fastest with all the "convenience" items and buy the gear), then you have those with money that can buy the gear, and finally then you have those without money that will get rolled over regardless of the time spent because some items are borderline impossible to get without money.

since most players will be in the last category, they will quit and the game will die. this makes everybody lose except daum who will make tons of money in the process.

however more funds to daum do not equal better game and you have the whole AAA industry as an example that big budgets rarely produce good games. and about daum in particular, at the moment they are selling you something that everyone else in the world has for free with less content. sure, there will be one more CBT but it's something to keep in mind.

and finally, this game has potential to crash and burn even faster simply because archeage happened and people are more wary of the whole p2w aspect of mmos and will jump the ship even faster (those who are jaded probably already did seeing the CBT barely changed anything).

 

 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

while my problem with the cash shop is rather that it'll have p2w items (seeing the RU cash shop where everything gives you some kind of advantage, rather than being a pure cosmetic item or no) than whether it will be bound or not, your reasoning is flawed because you think there are only people with time and people with money. if the cash shop allows you to buy silver indirectly and also gives you ingame advantages (which it currently does on all versions of the game), the people who are left out aren't those without money, but rather those without time.

so you'll end up with those that have both dominating everyone (since they can grind fastest with all the "convenience" items and buy the gear), then you have those with money that can buy the gear, and finally then you have those without money that will get rolled over regardless of the time spent because some items are borderline impossible to get without money.

since most players will be in the last category, they will quit and the game will die. this makes everybody lose except daum who will make tons of money in the process.

however more funds to daum do not equal better game and you have the whole AAA industry as an example that big budgets rarely produce good games. and about daum in particular, at the moment they are selling you something that everyone else in the world has for free with less content. sure, there will be one more CBT but it's something to keep in mind.

and finally, this game has potential to crash and burn even faster simply because archeage happened and people are more wary of the whole p2w aspect of mmos and will jump the ship even faster (those who are jaded probably already did seeing the CBT barely changed anything).

 

 

 

No. I'm aware that there are anomalies. I had made a very large post about exactly this a few pages back. I suggest you go read it if you're interested.

Yes. There will be a handfull of people who are simply broken. But killing a system that hurts more than just them is really ignorant and totally not cool. There will be many people who simply can't afford to get things from the cash shop with their own money, but will have time to grind in game. Cutting them out is really, that just really grinds the hell out of my gears man. It's inconsiderate, ignorant and just down right rude.

And for what. 10-50 people who have a crap ton of money and time? Stop.
Stop.

One of my biggest problems with this exact topic is that it's usually made by the same type of people who play high end dps classes but are susceptible to stunlock due to their build, so they complain about the classes that have stun at all and about how broken they are and blah. blah. People want the game to be easier for them and don't give a piss about anyone else. they want their experience to be convenient so that no one can be better than them and they can do the least amount of work themselves possible.

While I am not saying that everyone here who opposes open trade is like this
I can surely spot a few right off the bat.

It's not cool.

It will kill the game.

I played archeage.
My guild did very well in archeage.
We played the majority game in EPH/HA grade gear because our RNG with crafting and upgrades was crap.
Sure we had a lot of money from selling dungeon runs but never really focused it on gear. And when we did it was for the healers lol.

Simply didn't need the high end gear.
Because the players we opposed paid to win. And did not know how to fight non-mainstream classes.

Where there were anomalies, it simply wasn't worth killing off the system, harming more than doing good.

I'm sorry but it makes no logical sense to me.
Do not punish people who do not have money.

In the back of my head I think of someone like my little brother, except you know, without money; who wants a costume but simply can't get it. Sort-of sucks to think about it that way, which is why I'm opposing this idea with as much interest as possible. I can't really fathom it lol. It's just not fair. Where I do detest ACTUAL pay to win, trading real currency vs game currency through in-game items / methods I never really consider pay to win. If the players are working to make the silver and the people with the items are working to buy the items then I see an economy on it's own. Sure there are anomalies, but again, don't screw over the situations that are not. as there are way more of them then there are anomalies.

It'd be a very ignorant and inconsiderate thing to do.

But unfortunately you're right, on both sides of the spectrum there are those who will get either screwed or have a hell of a time.

On one side, time AND money.

On the other, neither.

And even THEN there will be more people with lots of time but not enough money to get what they'd like to have. Both cosmetic AND "pay to win".

If everyone has the ability to obtain what is "breaking" the game, I don't see it as pay to win.
Get off your ass and work for it if you don't have the money to buy it. Farm that silver and earn it that way.

That or get a job.

And if you belong to the other two 'anomalous' spectrum, then good for you or sorry for you.

Right now I'm focused on what can be done, within what I know about these systems so far.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

If everyone has the ability to obtain what is "breaking" the game, I don't see it as pay to win.
Get off your ass and work for it if you don't have the money to buy it. Farm that silver and earn it that way.

That or get a job.

judging from the item progression and the cash shop used in other versions which i feel is quite safe considering the lack of almost any changes done to this version of the game so far, the issue is that at the moment gear rules all and the best gear in the end can be reliably only acquired by simply paying money, and not only that, just to be grinding efficiently you already need to spend money, at least for the pets to pick up drop for you.

i'm sorry but saying that if someone can grind half a year for something that others could get in instance by paying a bit (and i'm not saying how much because it's not only relative, but in the end irrelevant) isn't pay2win because "they can get it eventually" is ridiculous, especially in an open world PvP game where rich get richer because any kind of advantage allows you to build up even bigger one.

and sure, people can get a job instead. or, you know, they can just find another game that respects their time and effort they put into it instead.

all of this is made even worse with the B2P aspect for the western market. it has been somewhat accepted that if you go play f2p game, you expect some amount of p2w (despite some of the most popular games proving that you can be successful, perhaps even more, without it), but if you add a paywall to even be able to play the game, and then you expect people to suffer through f2p restrictions and disadvantages to fully enjoy it, you have a recipe for a very short lifespan.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I've read a lot of posts by people blinded by their own desires to not see potential devastating side effects with getting what they want.

cash shop items tradable? -- pay 2 win.. word gets out that the game is pay 2 win? dead game

cash shop items not tradable -- players who don't want to spend real money to look good get the shaft.

What we need is something in between, and an overall gear rework. 

First thing is first: the game is heavily gear reliant which means any time you're able to get gear (or silver to buy gear) by not playing the game isn't fair. The first change we need is to abolish this gap, make the gear cap easier to complete, say +15 is the max in this case, there's no +20. Of course those with +15 will be stronger, but +15 isn't by any means impossible to acquire. In this case, gear will not be a huge factor in the long run; instead leveling will be.

The second change we need is account bound items from the cash shop -- wait before you rage. This is required no matter what, simply because if you can trade items from the cash shop, the game will be pay 2 win. However, we can still compromise for those who want cash shop items just by playing the game and there's a few options for that:

option 1: make a system of currency conversion similar to that gw2 has, without being able to convert pearls to silver obviously. This allows people to work and earn silver in game and purchase cash shop items as they wish, without possibility of pay 2 win.

option 2: make a system of daily log in rewards that allow people to work up to cash shop items, This allows players to not have to spend their silver earned in game to get certain items, however the rate at which you earn this loyalty currency will be very slow -- so straight out purchasing your cosmetic goods will obviously be enticing and profitable for the company.

These are just ideas I had while reading through the many posts in the thread, not all of them are mine but I do feel we need both of these changes in order for this game to be successful in the long run.

TLDR;

Cash shop must be account bound (sorry) invent sytstems so that people can still acquire these cash shop items through playing.

Gear must be capped off at a non ridiculous point so that the PvP in the game relies more on playing the game and getting levels rather than acquiring massive amounts of gear (though gear will still play a big part in the power ratio, it just isn't absurdly ridden with rng and huge game breaking benefits).

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Equal gear = skill vs skill.

If you want the best gear, work for it. How you work to get it is up to you.

Having open trade simply allots those who don't have shit tons of money and those who don't have shit tons of free time to get where they need to.

Your concept of pay to win is flawed. Here let me put this into perspective for you.

 

Game has cash shop. You can by RNG boosts in cash shop but only with $$$$. No one who has ingame currency can get these at all.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That is an example of original pay to win, a source of where the term came from;
Go try to play Combat Arms and you will taste this at first hand.

I think you people are confusing pay for continence / other currencies other than time and in-game currency as a form of economical structure.

 

Cash shop must be account bound (sorry) invent sytstems so that people can still acquire these cash shop items through playing.

Sorry, you must not have been reading anything. I don't know what makes you think that playing the game and earning currency is a method of earning the cash shop items through playing. This is my point ._. lol.

Edited by War

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

You know what. Go ahead. Lock the cash shop.

When my wallet is making kids cry because they can't afford to get the items they want with the silver they have(Y'know, since they, for whatever reason, don't have the cash on the "real life" side to get it), please do not come back to these forums and cry.

Gon'Learn.

I feel the game will die much quicker if the people who want costumes and cats can't get them because it's not in their budget. And the whole I don't know anyone who doesn't have 10$ shit is just ignorant and frankly a bit offensive. Sodd off with that. Take some deep time and soul seeking to analyze what you're all saying and how it will effect everyone please. Not just you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

Sorry, you must not have been reading anything. I don't know what makes you think that playing the game and earning currency is a method of earning the cash shop items through playing. This is my point ._. lol.

Buddy, I'm sorry but playing the game is how one should progress, not buy spending money in the game. Your concept on pay 2 win is flawed. If you want to earn things from the cash shop without spending money there should be a system for that since the game is buy 2 play, the only restriction being an x amount of time. I understand your pain for not being able to play the game much and wanting to stand a fair chance, which is understandable however throwing your money at the game shouldn't be the way to do it. Hence why i mentioned the gear change, which would make it so you don't have to spend a ridiculous amount of time gearing.

Thanks, read next time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Buddy, I'm sorry but playing the game is how one should progress, not buy spending money in the game. Your concept on pay 2 win is flawed. If you want to earn things from the cash shop without spending money there should be a system for that since the game is buy 2 play, the only restriction being an x amount of time. I understand your pain for not being able to play the game much and wanting to stand a fair chance, which is understandable however throwing your money at the game shouldn't be the way to do it. Hence why i mentioned the gear change, which would make it so you don't have to spend a ridiculous amount of time gearing.

Thanks, read next time.

Lel. Assumes spending requires no playing.
Explain this please? I'm legitimately curious.

There already is a system. It works great.

Don't append your unofficial standardization of "buy to play" games onto other games that may not follow the exact business model as blizzard(seen a lot of that in this thread so far pretty sad.)

"Only Restriction" is bullox. I'm simply using it as one of the many examples. Please, think about it.

It's not just my time that is the issue. This is more than just me. Please, think about it.

You're not wrong, but you are.
Just as I am not wrong. But I am.

Like I said, go back a few pages and read my analysis breakdown of how the system works. Might allot a bit more to my point. Assuming you're here to debunk the point and not just cry about this so called "pay 2 win" that you guys have.

If vast majority** has access to the items, how is this pay to win?
I'm sorry what was your definition of pay to win again?
I seem to have missed it.

Edited by War

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

You know what. Go ahead. Lock the cash shop.

When my wallet is making kids cry because they can't afford to get the items they want with the silver they have(Y'know, since they, for whatever reason, don't have the cash on the "real life" side to get it), please do not come back to these forums and cry.

Gon'Learn.

I feel the game will die much quicker if the people who want costumes and cats can't get them because it's not in their budget. And the whole I don't know anyone who doesn't have 10$ shit is just ignorant and frankly a bit offensive. Sodd off with that. Take some deep time and soul seeking to analyze what you're all saying and how it will effect everyone please. Not just you.

 the problem isn't whether the cash shop is locked or not, it's that it's too easy to convert silver into OP gear which wins PvP by itself. frankly, this topic is somewhat pointless in the grand scheme anyway, it doesn't matter whether the game will die because only people who pay will have access to cash shop items that aren't cosmetic and affect the game, plain and simple, or because people who pay can get unlimited amount of silver by selling said items, allowing them to simply outgear everyone because getting +20 weapon or heavily enchanted accessories simply isn't feasible for a non-paying player. the result is all the same, people will leave as soon as they realize it.

Edited by autofishing
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Lel. Assumes spending requires no playing.
Explain this please? I'm legitimately curious.

There already is a system. It works great.

Don't append your unofficial standardization of "buy to play" games onto other games that may not follow the exact business model as blizzard(seen a lot of that in this thread so far pretty sad.)

"Only Restriction" is bullox. I'm simply using it as one of the many examples. Please, think about it.

It's not just my time that is the issue. This is more than just me. Please, think about it.

You're not wrong, but you are.
Just as I am not wrong. But I am.

Like I said, go back a few pages and read my analysis breakdown of how the system works. Might allot a bit more to my point. Assuming you're here to debunk the point and not just cry about this so called "pay 2 win" that you guys have.

If everyone has access to the items, how is this pay to win?
I'm sorry what was your definition of pay to win again?
I seem to have missed it.

I'll define pay 2 win, though as you mentioned you played archeage, you should have a fair idea of what it means. Since you played archeage extending passed the time they started selling thunderstruck trees in the CASH SHOP, it seems your idea of pay 2 win is vastly different than the majority. Pay to win in my mind is as follows:

If you can use real money in a game to acquire an advantage over other players that would otherwise require a ridiculous amount of time, it is pay to win. For a specific example, I spent weeks farming money, doing trade runs etc in AA and finally got a fishing boat. The day they put TS trees in the cash shop was the day i quit. That day, the weeks I had spent making gold in the game were belittled because they decided to devalue it by selling it for a measly price in the cash shop.

This example doesn't fully exemplify the issue of pay 2 win however, since the items don't have to directly come from the cash shop to be harmful to the game, As long as you can acquire a massive amount of in game currency by using your wallet, and with that currency you can have a very differentiating level of gear, the game is pay 2 win.

Cash shop items being sellable in the current state of the game would ruin it. However, I do believe that if they balanced gear out to not take a shit load of time, and/or provide absurb bonuses to your character strength, they could get by with letting cash shop items be sellable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I'll define pay 2 win, though as you mentioned you played archeage, you should have a fair idea of what it means. Since you played archeage extending passed the time they started selling thunderstruck trees in the CASH SHOP, it seems your idea of pay 2 win is vastly different than the majority. Pay to win in my mind is as follows:

If you can use real money in a game to acquire an advantage over other players that would otherwise require a ridiculous amount of time, it is pay to win. For a specific example, I spent weeks farming money, doing trade runs etc in AA and finally got a fishing boat. The day they put TS trees in the cash shop was the day i quit. That day, the weeks I had spent making gold in the game were belittled because they decided to devalue it by selling it for a measly price in the cash shop.

This example doesn't fully exemplify the issue of pay 2 win however, since the items don't have to directly come from the cash shop to be harmful to the game, As long as you can acquire a massive amount of in game currency by using your wallet, and with that currency you can have a very differentiating level of gear, the game is pay 2 win.

Cash shop items being sellable in the current state of the game would ruin it. However, I do believe that if they balanced gear out to not take a shit load of time, and/or provide absurb bonuses to your character strength, they could get by with letting cash shop items be sellable.

Yep. And if you played hard enough to have the gold to buy the in cash shop thunderstruck(Which we did because we didn't suck and weren't lazy), Then you have access to the same type of feature.

On a side now this is an MMO. I'd hope you're not trying to go do everything by yourself. If that is your biased in this entire situation please leave. Lmao. I'm more interested in community / economy game play and how it effects the game for everyone, not myself. Just an assumption on your examples.

 

What ruined archeage was that they sold 100% upgrade chance stones in the cash shop.

not thunderstruck.
Where this is opinion based, I have quite a few hours logged in that game. And a hell of a lot of "pay to win" noobs(such as Batman and Neknoob) kills. Simply an example.

Yeah, not everyone in my group had tons of money. So we sold dungeon runs because we weren't baddies. Charged currency AND apex. so like I don't know where my concept is flawed.

 

Selling 100% enchant blackstones will ruin the game

Not some freaking costumes and cats. Lmfao...

 the problem isn't whether the cash shop is locked or not, it's that it's too easy to convert silver into OP gear which wins PvP by itself. frankly, this topic is somewhat pointless in the grand scheme anyway, it doesn't matter whether the game will die because only people who pay will have access to cash shop items that aren't cosmetic and affect the game, plain and simple, or because people who pay can get unlimited amount of silver by selling said items, allowing them to simply outgear everyone because getting +20 weapon or heavily enchanted accessories simply isn't feasible for a non-paying player. the result is all the same, people will leave as soon as they realize it.

giphy.gif

If you ain't got the cash, work for your silver.
If you got the cash and people want cats, sell them cats into slavery on the auction house for your silver.
once you get your gear pvp with others on par or below, sometimes above.
Either way I don't understand why you people don't understand how and why this works.

 

Either way, if you suck at combat, and don't have time to grind, you're screwed. But as far as econemy? This pseudo-pay to win concept you all have makes like no sense in light of how this system actually works.

Really starting to get that "omg i'm too lazy but want my cake to be super sweet and easy" vibe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

Selling 100% enchant blackstones will ruin the game

Not some freaking costumes and cats. Lmfao...

 

This is where you show your blindness/ignorance. It amazes me how you cannot see what is so obvious. Like i said above, (which you didn't comprehend) The cash shop doesn't have to sell specific items that provide advantages to be considered pay to win, that is just another level up on the pay to win scale. 

Think about it for a second, If you can't buy 100% enchant blackstones, what would the difference be if you could buy billions of silver and get a "100% chance" to succeed anyway by purchasing tons of enchant mats? You don't even understand that which is why you didn't see when archeage really died. But it's fine, think about it and maybe you'll see the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

This is where you show your blindness/ignorance. It amazes me how you cannot see what is so obvious. Like i said above, (which you didn't comprehend) The cash shop doesn't have to sell specific items that provide advantages to be considered pay to win, that is just another level up on the pay to win scale. 

Think about it for a second, If you can't buy 100% enchant blackstones, what would the difference be if you could buy billions of silver and get a "100% chance" to succeed anyway by purchasing tons of enchant mats? You don't even understand that which is why you didn't see when archeage really died. But it's fine, think about it and maybe you'll see the problem.

Uh. Okay bud.
I won't deny that I am blind to many things, including this. But I stand behind my experience as well as knowledge of game economics(though not as advanced as others), as that is what I am sharing.

Pretty sure that is exactly what PAY TO WIN means. scale? What? When was that introduced lmfaoooo what the hell kind of

Why would I want to risk my account that I've got lots of cool stuff on to make money from some illegitimate source when I can sell to people I know want the new winter costume coming out and make my money that way + help out another player who may not have or want to spend the money?

But let's say I did sell tons of items to these players and get 100% chance to upgrade my stuff via "tons" of enchants. Have I not earned it at that rate? I mean. Take into consideration the rate of sales, price flux, other merchants... Like.

You guys are not factoring in what "currency" actually is. You're limiting this to money and silver only lol. Those are not the only currencies. Not even time as a currency completes the list.

You guys are posing your arguments about more than just your pseudo-pay2win crap here.

This is economics.

Please. Think about it.

Edited by War
1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Uh. Okay bud.I won't deny that I am blind to many things, including this. But I stand behind my experience as well as knowledge of game economics(though not as advanced as others), as that is what I am sharing.
Pretty sure that is exactly what PAY TO WIN means. scale? What? When was that introduced lmfaoooo what the hell kind of

Why would I want to risk my account that I've got lots of cool stuff on to make money from some illegitimate source when I can sell to people I know want the new winter costume coming out and make my money that way + help out another player who may not have or want to spend the money?

But let's say I did sell tons of items to these players and get 100% chance to upgrade my stuff via "tons" of enchants. Have I not earned it at that rate? I mean. Take into consideration the rate of sales, price flux, other merchants... Like.

You guys are not factoring in what "currency" actually is. You're limiting this to money and silver only lol. Those are not the only currencies. Not even time as a currency completes the list.

You guys are posing your arguments about more than just your pseudo-pay2win crap here.

This is economics.

Please. Think about it.

You're so ignorant about the issue because you have your heart set on throwing loads of money into it to try and be stronger than other players, it's hilarious really. You think purchasing items on the cash shop and selling it is "earning it" lmao. If Daum knows what is actually good for the game, then they'll do it and take archeage as an example of how to not do things. Clearly your logical reasoning is so biased that it is impossible to actually have a conversation on the matter, I feel as though you're just trolling because of the amount of ignorance in your posts but feel free to keep going. I'd suggest you just go read back on my suggestions, as well as others and try to get rid of your one-sided view and think of a compromising system rather than defending a side that clearly a large part of the player base is against for reasons you can read about.

Pay to win is a very delicate word to the western community, and since I really want the game to succeed here im doing my best to provide compromising solutions to the problems we are facing, where you continuously post "deal with it, I want pay 2 win". There's nothing more to add here really, I've posted my concerns, possible solutions and so have you.

What really is funny is how you talk about purchasing in game money using illegal sources as though you will resort to those sources should cash shop items be non tradable, but this is the exact reason trading isn't implemented in the game. Keep dreaming, but really I have no idea why you are so obsessed with pouring in real money in the game to make yourself more powerful, and somehow that gives you a feeling that you "earned it". You are the plague of the market my friend, you are a whale and games should not cater to whales. 

Anyway, Hopefully Daum makes the right decision for the game, whatever it may be.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites