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Improving PVE gameplay and Monster AI


Rate your opinion of the standard AI monsters encountered in game   243 votes

  1. 1. What is your opinion of standard mobs in game?

    • Too easy, improve AI to create a challenge. (Please post any specific behaviors you want to see)
      135
    • Too easy, change monster stats to make them tougher. (which stats?)
      6
    • Too easy, improve AI and cange monster stats
      44
    • Just right, don't change anything
      46
    • Too hard, make the mobs even easier to kill
      12

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

121 posts in this topic

Posted

BDO is a complex and interestng game. With a wide variety of game modes, mini0games, activities,and time sinks, all that remains is the core challenge of the PVE experience. THE MONSTERS YOU FIGHT.

Add suggestions for possible mob behavior to assist in design.

 

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Posted

Simple stateless AI
            If damage > morale
               if can-run-away-from-player
                  run-away-from-player
               else if can-attack-player
                  attack-player
            else if too-far-from-player
               AND can-attack-player
               AND can-move-toward-player
                   if  random < charge-probability
                       move-toward-player     
                   else attack-player
            else if too-close-to-character
               AND can-attack-player
               AND can-move-away-from-player
                   if random < retreat-probability
                      move-away-from-player
                   else attack-player
            else if can-attack-player
               attack-player
            else if too-far-from-player 
               AND can-move-toward-player
     move-toward-player
            else if too-close-to-player
               AND can-move-away-from-player
                   move-away-from-player
            else stand-still

Here is a list of the primitives

  • can-move-toward-player
  • move-toward-player
  • can-move-away-from-player
  • move-away-from-player
  • can-run-away-from-player
  • run-away-from-player
  • can-attack-player
  • attack-player
  • too-far-from-player
  • too-close-to-player
  • stand-still
  • player-is-friend
  • player-has-food
  • player-too-powerful
  • player-is-same-alignment
  • player-is-opposed-alignment
  • enough-buddies-in-pack
  • too-far-from-pack-center
  • can-move-toward-pack-center
  • move-toward-pack-center
  • too-close-to-pack-center
  • can-move-away-from-pack-center
  • move-away-from-pack-center

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Posted

Generally monsters in BDO can be made more challenging by;

Allowing them a dodge mechanic. Give all monsters a stamina rating just as players possess. Then grant them a behavior,

Dodge

if player attack successful, check monster stamina,if monster stamina >50%, then monster dodge chance=(x%), if dodge completed, then dodge direction=(away from player, towards player, strafe right, strafe left).

Block

if player attack successful, check monster stamina,if monster stamina >50%, then monster block chance=(x%)

Break block

If playerstate=block and distance to player <3m, then roll percentage, if percentage >x%, then monsteractivateskill (choose block breaking skill)

choose positioning

If playerstate=active, and distance to player <20m, then check player melee surrounding, If player-front-melee=open, then monster move+attack to player-front-melee. If player-front-melee=occupied, then monster move+attack to player-rear-melee. All cardinal vectors on player must=occupied before layer front melee can be occupied by monsters>2

React to AoE:

If monster damaged=yes and damage source=AoE, Monster state detect begin if number-of-monsters in range (<4m radius) is equal to or greater than 3 select 3 monsters. Assign each monster a vector A, B, C. Selected monster smart move chance, if percentage >x% then monster move along vector (chosen vector), 10m at rate x

Maintain distance

Monster range to player >xm, then move towards player until distance=y, if monster distance <zm, then move away from player along vector (random)

 until distance y.

Monster group combos:

If monster A successfully uses break block behavior, monster B checks range to player, if playerinrange=yes, then activate specialskill (choose one) target player.

Monster smart targeting

monster scan radius 50m. if player in radius=yes, if number of players in radius >2, check player state, if playerhitpoints<25% then tag player as target, activate focus on my target. Focusonmytarget, identify all monsters within radius xm. Each monster then rolls percentage, if percentage >50%, monster move+attack to target, activate monster positioning behavior.

Monster skill use,

Monster skills trigger on specific player actions.

If player uses magic dodge, monster activate movement impair cc

If player uses block, monster activate throw or block break.

 

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Posted

You want challenging opponent?

PVP is the answer.

The only essential script for Ai: When HP(0) -> Die.

10 people like this

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Posted (edited)

I would rather not play a mmorpg with these mob mechanics but i do find it fun in single player games like bloodborne :D

Bosses should have these mechanics though.

 

Edited by Naruto
2 people like this

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Posted

noooooooooooooope
put that time into better PvP instead and you have your pve at the same time.

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Posted

 

"Bosses should have these mechanics though."

 

latest?cb=20151011154025

I only played the RU version of this game to get a feel for it so I don't know if there are Bosses with these mechanics active in the game, but from the few youtube videos that I saw, all bosses just seem to be giant meat shields. I don't want developers to spend too much time implementing this on all mob found trought the game but I do hope they take the time to make bosses a little challenging in this game.

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Posted

i would like a better AI for monsters since almost every player will spend a huge chunk of there gaming time grinding them for drops, materials, money, quests, etc.

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Posted

I think that these mechanics would be good for the game aswell

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Posted

They could at least make the bosses more challenging cuz they feel so weak and just a waste of time.

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Posted (edited)

Group AI. I think these AI changes would be great. Smart mobs are so much more interesting to deal with. Think of zerg v zerg or GvG fights in GW2, with carefully timed clashes and fine targeting of players of certain roles, baiting the other group to blow their offensive or defensive cool-downs. Peeling the onion is coming in and out of maximum range, then bombing the group, picking off weak and undisciplined players, then pulling back to do it all again. This tests both player skill, gear, strategy, and teamwork. Imagine if a group of AI mobs could do half of that. It would be glorious.  

Edited by oR-Bishop

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Posted (edited)

Mobs walk to player when attacked. Change that with a charge attack and there you go.

Mobs really need a gap closer attack to pose any danger.

Also I suggested a proximity system for mob AI a while ago: so that mobs dont bunch up to be wiped in a single AoE, and actually encircle players.

Edited by Mynban
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Posted

Smart mobs are so much more interesting to deal with.

so that mobs dont bunch up to be wiped in a single AoE, and actually encircle players.

Superior smart weasel using her secret AI tactics to give proud strong pve player some fun! 

Charging with weasel leap slam!

Buff up!

Blocks, strikes!

Fight is over. Good job player, here is you achievement!

What-would-you-do-if-you-could-not-fail.

 

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Posted

Stuff

No offense I dont see you making a suggestion, but maybe you are already having enough challenge from brain dead AI?

At least with charging mobs, people will need to be more careful when pulling a shitload of mobs or running in aggressive zones ignoring all mobs.

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Posted

No offense I dont see you making a suggestion, but maybe you are already having enough challenge from brain dead AI?

At least with charging mobs, people will need to be more careful when pulling a shitload of mobs or running in aggressive zones ignoring all mobs.

I want to kill tons of brainless mobs for exp and drops. Aoe grinding is fun. Fighting another player is challenge.

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Posted

I want to kill tons of brainless mobs for exp and drops. Aoe grinding is fun. Fighting another player is challenge.

Interesting perspective, have you tried Runescape by any chance?

But I do somewhat agree with you. I don't think mobs need revamped AI's, they'll still remain easy to kill. Having more complicated boss mechanics would be more interesting though, since they are supposed to be bosses not revamped mobs 2.0 with higher hp and damage.

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Posted

Interesting perspective, have you tried Runescape by any chance?

2005-2012

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Posted

I want to kill tons of brainless mobs for exp and drops. Aoe grinding is fun. Fighting another player is challenge.

a million times this.

 

Perhaps some revamp of "boss" encounters, or if a new dungeon comes out to introduce this, but for the most part PvE AI  being dynamic makes me laugh.

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Posted (edited)

We have action combat system, and I cant see why we can not have Devil May Cry style mob combat for example.

But you all have to agree with mobs running to player location being dumb. You can literally run among hundreds of aggressive mobs without getting hit once. That needs to be fixed.

Edited by Mynban
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Posted

Can anyone let me know what the plans are for the game for PVE end game for the western version from what I know there is no real end game PVE content and the world bosses are quite easy , I love the way this game looks and everything from all videos I've seen it looks amazing. 

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Posted

Making the monsters harder to kill would in the short term, make things more fun, but after 800 hours of grinding them would make things just annoying specially with guild wars and pvp as well. 

Imagine being attacked while grinding, in this version is fairly easy to disengage the mobs, but improving their AI, giving them nasty CC's and debuffs, could ruin your chances to defend yourself, making things easier for the aggressor. Id say leave the enemies just as they are tbh.

HOWEVER world bosses on the other hand should be badass, very lethal and a challenge to be killed. Those need much improvement.

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Posted (edited)

They're currently far too easy at low levels, there is no real challenge.  Most of the 'hard' npcs are simply damage sponges and/or deal more damage, but can be dodged fairly easily.  Took me a few tries to get that first guy on the beach?  Didn't feel like I was doing any damage, but randomly defeated him.  Same with the goblin chief.  They're slow enough you can easily dodge.  

 

Now mobs, are supposed to be easy, so I won't say much on the dumbness of their AI.  They agro, and follow forever, but some of the time I turn around because I hear one chasing me and then it turns and runs away.  The more human npc mobs agro far easier though.  I found myself killing the same rebels for like an hour-- well after the quest parameters were met because they just kept coming!  

 

Without being an AI engineer, I can't really make a solid recommendation for how they should be.  The bosses (from my experience with these mini bosses) shouldn't be just damage sponges with increased hitting power.  They need to be a little smarter.  More tactically inclined, I guess?

Edited by Khatana

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Posted

so far in the videos i've seen its really easy to kite some of the mobs,

maybe some changes where mobs can either move faster towards you or that they can stun you ( for example they can grab onto you and hold in place)

that way u either need to play more carefull or play in a party where others can help you get out of the stuns

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Posted

Its the same Problem that every MMO with action combat in the past had. You have active dodging by the players vs simple "go to player and attack" AI with long animation.

It is very hard to find a good difficulty of Monsters. There were different approaches:

  • increase HP: makes it annoying to kill mobs, but not harder, you still dont get hit
  • increase DMG: In a combat where you rarely get hit, it only slightly increases difficulty (with 1-hit attacks, its harder, but not fun and ping dependend)
  • increase Attack Speed: this could work, giving you less time to dodge, it will make bosses and especially mass pulls a lot harder
  • Make mobs Dodge and Block: Its the same as increasing their HP, actually better, because mobs feel more responsive and not like HP-spponges
  • Make them flee and pull more mobs: mobs need more than just DPS to be killed, you eventually need to CC them, to stop them bringing more friends.
  • ...

In the end its probably a mixture of all of the above... if you melt them within one seconds, you probably dont notice any difference...

So mobs, that survive more than 1 second, are able to hit you more than once a minute and should be interrupted at some attacks ... this would be more chalanging mobs, without making them annoying to fight against.

Putting mobs on the same skill-level as real players wont work in BDO, because you need to grind them and it will be no fun to fight minutes with one mob, because he dodges all the time and is running away....

 

This will work on small bosses too. World/raid bosses on the other hand wont get much harder by this, they need chalanging mechanics, AOE attacks etc...

If a boss onehits everything thats not fun. A boss with millions of HP, but no mechanic isn't fun either....

  • A dragon boss that has a fire-breath, that you either need to find cover behind some rocks or a tank shield blocking, else you will die. And shooting fireballs with AOE damage, so you cant stack up in front of him...
  • A boss that lives in a cave, the group has to split, because player damage against this boss is low, one group needs to kite him and the other one is at a higher stage and throws big rocks down to it. You need CC to kite him, or you eat tons of damag and not pure DPS...
  • Basicly anything that needs you to think about your actions and not just "if you cant kill it with DPS, you need more DPS"

just some simple thoughts. 

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Posted (edited)

I do like the AI model -  elite mobs are  fun - however i do like the aoe smash grind too.

Edited by bdo77
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