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Improving PVE gameplay and Monster AI


Rate your opinion of the standard AI monsters encountered in game   243 votes

  1. 1. What is your opinion of standard mobs in game?

    • Too easy, improve AI to create a challenge. (Please post any specific behaviors you want to see)
      135
    • Too easy, change monster stats to make them tougher. (which stats?)
      6
    • Too easy, improve AI and cange monster stats
      44
    • Just right, don't change anything
      46
    • Too hard, make the mobs even easier to kill
      12

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

121 posts in this topic

Posted

You want challenging opponent?

PVP is the answer.

The only essential script for Ai: When HP(0) -> Die.

^

We don't need challenging pve it will only slow grinding down even more and make the chill and grind.

We got pvp for a challenge

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Posted

This is just laughable... All I gotta say. Combat effects are way over the top also, it looks ugly. Cant tell wtf is happening there.

Also the AI is terrible, lazy 1shot mechanics with slow attacks + no tactics involved in any way. Doesnt pique my intrest even fighting this boss in the least.

Some suggestions specifically for this boss:

  1. Increase the fighting/combat area. The boss could be aggroed like around 500m radius from the sky (meaning the dragon could smell some prey(players) on the ground and hurl towards players from the sky. Dragon could also patrol the area and kill off any solo adventurers if they come by.
  2. Also when the boss lifts up it could also dive into the players picking em up and dropping them to their deaths if they cant dodge.
  3. Also the dragon could move around way more for lets say for example in the 500m radius. We have this cool horse combat which could be utilized tracking down this boss and fighting it on horseback.

Have some different interesting mechanics, this is just a no-brain zergfest.

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Posted

It would be great if enemies had a minimal collision model.

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Posted

Go fight the mobs when they're purple to you.

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Posted

Go fight the mobs when they're purple to you.

Those mobs are dangerous because artificially inflated hp, attack, and defense stats. If they also possessed better AI would make them truly challenging.

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Posted

Those mobs are dangerous because artificially inflated hp, attack, and defense stats. If they also possessed better AI would make them truly challenging.

True that! its 2016 for gods sake, time to create a mob with brains, how is it we can find the god particle in a tube in Geneva but cant get some basic A.I. in the century we live in??

 

3nj3z35.jpg

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Posted

It's almost like the game's goal is to focus you toward... nevermind I won't finish it or the circlejerk begins again.

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Posted

I do like the AI model -  elite mobs are  fun - however i do like the aoe smash grind too.

Agreed on this.  It'd be nice if we could get some areas/regions/dungeons more focused on the "elite"-type mobs, or as I suggested before more Dark-Soulsy style mobs where they hit hard but when you know how to kill 'em they aren't necessarily challenging -- but if you slip up the AI punishes you so you're always on your toes.  Maybe not change the entire world's AI, but instead making these areas really awesome for PvE in terms of enemy NPC response and gameplay without that artificial HP increase difficulty.

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Posted

Change the game in new WoW: Check!

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Posted

AI is challenging to say the least. not to mention the more you stick in the more you break the script.

And people who say AI...don't know what AI is. Let's just say a majority of it is otherwise really just "team jump-roping".

The only thing you can do is what everyone else does, more team jump-roping, and not always a good thing.

The world boss isn't horrible, they obviously need a bit more scripting, but eh, a world boss isn't really the place to exemplify scripts in the first place.

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Posted

In this game it seems as if most of the monsters can more or less be treated like resources for players to fight over than anything else. In that case, their purpose isn't really to provide much of a challenge in the first place. My biggest gripe is honestly how slow their response time is. Couldn't they just speed up the animations or something?

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Posted

Its already a good thing that mobs dont just run up or through walls when they follow up to you :D

 

But yeah, improving the AI is always a good thing- 
Maybe later on we gonna get bosses 't actually require a good tactic =D

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Posted (edited)

Would like to see a boss that starts the fight with supporting some mini-mobs / adds, after you defeat them or hit the 75% helath mark he changes to meele-attack where he uses stuns, dodges and try do rampage trough the players, and if u get him to 30% he will try to retreat and uses ranged attacks / magic where he tries to kill just a few last enemys before it's over. And maybe sometimes calls for help (adds).

More AI would be cool. Even AI-Class improvement would do much for it. Some trapper- that try to lead you into bad things, or meeles that only fight when their buddy is near them. or some sharpshooters, that only act right when the player gets stunned, slow etc.

More team-fight aspect in PvE

Edited by BlackWolf

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Posted (edited)

Personally I think most top landscape mob are good as they are with the exception to open world dungeons and bosses. I would like to see changes to these areas when it comes to enemy AI:

1) Random beefed, smart AI mob that randomly spawn in the middle of farm zones. These mob as they are not really "boss" fights, are harder and look just like the trash in the area. They drop better loot/gear but will wake you up when you are farming and realize the monster you just hit didn't take a hit like the rest of the trash. Then phase two kicks in when they hit you harder then you expected from trash forcing you to get on your A-game or risk being rofl stomped. 

2) Harder boss mechanics as others have stated. Boss fights should be a challenge, not just a bunch of cheep one shot meat shields.

3) Group tactics when it comes to dungeon delving. Certain areas should require groups of players to complete. In order to make this more group challenging give the enemy group tactics not just higher HP and AP. Have enemies go after players that have lower HP. Charge in attacks like others have said. Enemy enrage when an another enemy goes down. Crit attacks that have to be CCed not dodged. Mob that heal one and other or provide support buffs/shields. Mob that attack faster and shadow step onto you providing constant pressure on your group. Mob that cleanse themselves then debuff you. Give us a reason to pick our targets rather then just the enemy that has the lowest HP pool or hits the hardest.

@CM_Jouska Would you mind monitoring this forum for suggestions/feedback please?

 

Edited by Kalmortia

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Posted

BD devs need to play Dragons Dogma to make some badass bosses :)

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Posted

I want the game to slap my butt cause i love it.

10579209733_38113baeb0_o.gif

 

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Posted

I want the game to slap my butt cause i love it.

10579209733_38113baeb0_o.gif

 

thats be more interesting and enjoyable.

PS:Where the u captured your image?

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Posted

I just searched for GIF of Dark souls

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Posted (edited)

I'm for smarter world bosses, they could use more mechanics and moves.

I'm against "smarter" mobs, mobs are just for grinding not challenge. Also have you been grinding at post mediah? Mobs do a shitload of damage unless you got beast DP.

 

It's almost like the game's goal is to focus you toward... nevermind I won't finish it or the circlejerk begins again.

Could it.. could it be PvP? 

 

 

Edited by LoneWolf
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Posted

Mob design needs to have two things.

A way to fit into the world. The mob needs to look like it belongs there and has a purpose.

Second it needs a way for the players enjoy fighting it.

A fun mob has to have two things.

A sense of danger

A way to be overcome.

 

Players enjoy learning a mobs patters strengths and weaknesses.

If you randomize the AI too much there are no patterns and therefore nothing for the player to figure out.

If the mob has no way of damaging and killing the player then the player has no sense of tension when fighting the mob.

That tension adds to the game. It creates an impetus to learn the mob and a sense of accomplishment when you overcome it.

Large stats are generally a gear check.

Having times or directions of vulnerability is a player skill check. 

Any time you remove control of the player character with a stun or root you are removing the ability for the player to act, and thus locking the game. ( So stuns or roots should only be used with big tells so that they only effect the player with fair warning.)

That is just my opinion. Take it for what it is worth from this old MMO vet.

I would like to see mobs whose challenge matches up with the reward they offer.

Bosses with big rewards should have a higher player skill challenge. Bosses that come after should have both Gear checks and Skill challenge as well. This prevents the lower tier content from becoming obsolete.

 

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Posted (edited)

I think the realization is that this game is heavily geared towards people who play to RP, and foremost have a great looking fantasy anime/toon.

The meat of the game is trading/crafting/farming and PVP.

In this game PVE is last. No hard Mobs/raids/dungeons/bosses/Daily's

It's a shame because I think this game could have had it all if not solely made in the East, but I don't think PVE of any note other than drops and grind for those who want to, is in their game plan, nor will it for at least the first, perhaps even second year.

In a growing crowded market you have to focus on a few things to get your IP above the others. Blade and Soul for example has focused heavily on PVP and had some of their team put some effort into a tangible anime style story as you progress. It's put some stock in PVE but now with an Esports scene to cater to, the focus won't be on PVE there either.

Black Desert online has filled it's coding crew with visual specialists along with ever came up with the PVP dynamics and trading etc. They simply won't be fleshing out their team with any dungeon map designers/PVE scriptwriters.

Most players don't realize they often specialize in key coding areas when taking on staff, but they most certainly do due to budget reasons.

Players wanting more will do forum petitions etc to try and bring about great changes, but that won't happen because BDO simply will not have any staff currently who could bring the resources the PVE ( as in more of a challenge & more content) lovers require, with the sufficient experience required, into the game as it is now. 

 

TLDR

 

Along with the removal of the "holy trinity", this is the Korean mmorpg way and what their audience love, and they will stick to it. We have to accept it as such.

The Western view of tactical mobs/bosses/raids/and dungeons will be found with Elder Scrolls Online/Neverwinter/ and WoW. That's where you need to go for your PVE fix.

People who have come here because they wan't to RP with great character models, new players to the mmorpg scene, or younger gamer anime fans who are relatively new to differences in games build for certain audiences will just have to accept there's a big divide between Western and Eastern design and goals for this type of game. Players need to educate themselves on the differences and find either the Western or Eastern game that gives them most of the content they want.

It's better to do this and far less frustrating than to just follow your eyes and jump into the first game that offers you the best fap for your female toon.

 

 

 

Edited by Silentnigh7

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Posted

I think the realization is that this game is heavily geared towards people who play to RP, and foremost have a great looking fantasy anime/toon.

The meat of the game is trading/crafting/farming and PVP.

In this game PVE is last. No hard raids/dungeons/bosses/Daily's

It's a shame because I think this game could had had it all, but I don't think PVE of any note other than drops and grind for those who want to, is in their game plan, nor will it for at least the first year.

In a growing crowded market you have to focus on a few things to get your IP above the others. Blade and Soul for example has focused heavily on PVP and had some put some effort into a tangible anime like story as you progress. It's put some stock in PVE but now with an Esports scene to cater to, the focus won't be on PVE there either.

Black Desert online has filled it's coding crew with visual specialists along with ever came up with the PVP dynamics and trading etc. They simply won't be fleshing out their team with any dungeon map designers/PVE scriptwriters.

Most players don't realize they often specialize in key coding areas when taking on staff, but they most certainly do due to budget reasons.

Players wanting more will do forum petitions etc to try and bring about great changes, but that won't happen because BDO simply will not have any staff currently who could bring the resources the PVE ( as in more of a challange & more content) lovers require, with the sufficient experience required, into the game as it is now. 

 

TLDR

 

Along with the removal of the "holy trinity", this is the Korean mmorpg way and what their audience love, and they will stick to it. We have to accept it as such.

The Western view of tactical mobs/bosses/raids/and dungeons will be found with Elder Scrolls Online/Neverwinter/ and WoW. That's where you need to go for your PVE fix.

 

 

 

Tldr:  There's more to PvE than dungeons and raids you know.  You're part of the problem when you don't even understand what PvE really means.

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Posted (edited)

 

Look, trying to insult someone else's knowledge of game content (I've been playing MMorpgs since Everquest, been PC gaming since the year 2000 and been gaming since I was 6 on the Atari 2600, I'm now 36. Think I have a fair idea or grasp of game content cheers), or generally trying to confront a single forum poster in someway to relive your tension, will not make a business trend dictated by the core audience change.

I'm truly very sorry. I know this game looks beautiful and gives you the best looking characters to date, but it will simply not have what you want from PVE. You won't get what this thread is asking for. You honestly won't until some considerable time has past, and we are talking years.

You need to accept this

Edited by Silentnigh7
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Posted (edited)

Look, trying to insult someone else's knowledge of game content (I've been playing MMorpgs since Everquest, think I have a fair idea cheers), or generally trying to confront a single forum poster in someway to relive your tension, will not make a business trend dictated by the core audience change.

I'm truly very sorry. I know this game looks beautiful and gives you the best looking characters to date, but it will simply not have what you want from PVE. You won't get what this thread is asking for. You honestly won't until some considerable time has past, and we are talking years.

You need to accept this.

I think you are wrong as well. The PvE community is just as important as the PvP community. The game wants to present a realistic world it seems. So if they focus mostly on PvP it will break immersion in my opinion. I love both PvE and PvP, but a majority of my time will likely be playing PvE. The large scale PvP for territory will only be 3 times per week I believe. Everyone will more than likely spend most of their time in PvE. This is the primary way of leveling up. The problem with BD at least in Asia is that it was made more casual due to the player base. I am hoping now that the western community has grown so much and we will all be paying customers that they will listen to us more. 

Also there's more to PvE than just dungeons and raids. Those are just very common to have now. You don't have to have instanced dungeons or raids to have that same experience though. If players really wanted it they could have a few instanced dungeons/raids just like how they do the instanced housing so it's seamless. I honestly don't like instances, but If they can't find a way to make open world content work then they will need some sort of instanced content too. If this game was truly all about PvP then there really isn't any point in making it a sandbox game is there? 

 

Along with the removal of the "holy trinity", this is the Korean mmorpg way and what their audience love, and they will stick to it. We have to accept it as such.

The Western view of tactical mobs/bosses/raids/and dungeons will be found with Elder Scrolls Online/Neverwinter/ and WoW. That's where you need to go for your PVE fix.

People who have come here because they wan't to RP with great character models, new players to the mmorpg scene, or younger gamer anime fans who are relatively new to differences in games build for certain audiences will just have to accept there's a big divide between Western and Eastern design and goals for this type of game. Players need to educate themselves on the differences and find either the Western or Eastern game that gives them most of the content they want.

It's better to do this and far less frustrating than to just follow your eyes and jump into the first game that offers you the best fap for your female toon.

 

 

 

This is not the only game to remove the holy trinity. You mentioned ESO in this post and ESO does not use the holy trinity system. At least not how players are used to that is. Nearly every class in that game can play as tank, dps, or support. I believe BD is more about positioning rather than class that determines your role. I honestly don't think any of those games you mentioned have good PvE. I have never liked WoW it's just too boring, Neverwinter is alright, and ESO is pretty good. The problem with ESO is the lack of sandbox features. It has some decent PvE, but I definitely wouldn't consider it to be the go to PvE game. If you really want PvE I would recommend a game like Tera, C9, or Vindictus. I still have high hopes for BD and I hope it will satiate my sandbox thirst. I do love challenging PvE and I do think they will make it more challenging in the future. PvE and the sandbox features are what will keep players playing not the PvP. PvP will eventually get boring without something else to do that's also challenging. 

Edited by Rogash
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Posted (edited)

I believe everyone has good points, although I truly believe we need to look to the intent of the game designers to really determine the answer.  What would be their answers to why mobs are as they are... Well, personally, I don't think we'll really ever be included in that truly complete answer, but I think:

1) It is the overall intent, and has been from day one of the design of the game, to have this be a total PvP game, with PvE included primarily to attract paying customers and the MMO audience/followers to a beautiful world, massive world, with some stories, lore (lore is essential to some MMO'rs), crafting, leveling, etc.;

2) Someone hit the nail on the head in an earlier post I think, in that mobs were meant to be the way they are because of the constant and ever-present PvP attack possibility, and thus the need to shed mobs and deal with that threat;

3) As with #1 above, it has been the intent to have PvP be the "end game", with a little PvE included to retain those players not fond of PvP through crafting, etc.;

4) The balance between PvP and PvE will probably not be adjusted until after launch and the analysis of data by the game designers.  They will look at forums, player complaints, grumblings, etc., and specifically notice any drop in log ins and game play numbers.  Obviously, at launch and shortly thereafter, numbers increase, but at some point, the numbers will show if the game design is working.  If numbers drop, consistently drop, then I think the game designers might act.  At this point in time, with launch imminent, the only thing on the game designers minds is recouping some or all of the major monetary time investment just getting the game launched.  They may say or tell us differently, but the simple truth is economics....$$$$.  Ideally, if they are in the "black", changes might occur sooner than later.  If still in the "red", I'm not inclined to believe much will be done. 

 

Edited by Zeelatazi
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