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Improving PVE gameplay and Monster AI


Rate your opinion of the standard AI monsters encountered in game   243 votes

  1. 1. What is your opinion of standard mobs in game?

    • Too easy, improve AI to create a challenge. (Please post any specific behaviors you want to see)
      135
    • Too easy, change monster stats to make them tougher. (which stats?)
      6
    • Too easy, improve AI and cange monster stats
      44
    • Just right, don't change anything
      46
    • Too hard, make the mobs even easier to kill
      12

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

121 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I think you are wrong as well. The PvE community is just as important as the PvP community. The game wants to present a realistic world it seems. So if they focus mostly on PvP it will break immersion in my opinion. I love both PvE and PvP, but a majority of my time will likely be playing PvE. The large scale PvP for territory will only be 3 times per week I believe. Everyone will more than likely spend most of their time in PvE. This is the primary way of leveling up. The problem with BD at least in Asia is that it was made more casual due to the player base. I am hoping now that the western community has grown so much and we will all be paying customers that they will listen to us more. 
Also there's more to PvE than just dungeons and raids. Those are just very common to have now. You don't have to have instanced dungeons or raids to have that same experience though. If players really wanted it they could have a few instanced dungeons/raids just like how they do the instanced housing so it's seamless. I honestly don't like instances, but If they can't find a way to make open world content work then they will need some sort of instanced content too. If this game was truly all about PvP then there really isn't any point in making it a sandbox game is there? 

This is not the only game to remove the holy trinity. You mentioned ESO in this post and ESO does not use the holy trinity system. At least not how players are used to that is. Nearly every class in that game can play as tank, dps, or support. I believe BD is more about positioning rather than class that determines your role. I honestly don't think any of those games you mentioned have good PvE. I have never liked WoW it's just too boring, Neverwinter is alright, and ESO is pretty good. The problem with ESO is the lack of sandbox features. It has some decent PvE, but I definitely wouldn't consider it to be the go to PvE game. If you really want PvE I would recommend a game like Tera, C9, or Vindictus. I still have high hopes for BD and I hope it will satiate my sandbox thirst. I do love challenging PvE and I do think they will make it more challenging in the future. PvE and the sandbox features are what will keep players playing not the PvP. PvP will eventually get boring without something else to do that's also challenging. 

All of that still isn't changing the way the Korean scene is working right now.

I foreseen paragraph's of justification coming when I put this (that's why most read and keep quiet when they see polls etc like this in a forum).

You're again missing the reality however.

I'm not saying this is how it should be, how I prefer it, or what's best for the game.

I am telling you why the game is the way it is, and why for a period it won't change.

What YOU, or a majority here in the west want, will not change the game. It's primary build, the most updated one and the one which will have all the changes first, will be on the Korean servers.

The game will always be catered for Korean players, and they want mobs they can mow down quick for levels. A challenge would slow them down. 

You say what's common, but again that's common for the West. Just how many Korean Mmorpg's have you played?

In Korea the PVP content is the main draw. Mmo scene is starting to resemble the MOBA scene in respect to competitive play. The reason is also due to people paying for more cash items to compete against other players, than to be a bad ass when playing PVE.

I've said this before and i'll say it again:

What makes sense to you, what you dearly want this game to be, and what your understand of PVE is or should be, is not going to be the reason this game changes. If you get fed up of the PVE content as it is and leave the game, if most of the western gamer base do, the Korean version will still march on strong for a while.

You need to accept the game for what it is, for now. Or move on. 

I really feel a majority of you want this game to be molded into more of a western format to go with it's gorgeous graphics, but you're going to have to save yourself some heartache and let go of that poisonous dream. 

The most that you can hope for is that a Western team see the success this game has, and replicate it's greatness and adapt it more to your tastes. That's TBH is a better bet for your dreams than it is with BDO.

Edited by Silentnigh7
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All of that still isn't changing the way the Korean scene is working right now.

I foreseen paragraph's of justification coming when I put this (that's why most read and keep quiet when they see polls etc like this in a forum).

You're again missing the reality however.

I'm not saying this is how it should be, how I prefer it, or what's best for the game.

I am telling you why the game is the way it is, and why for a period it won't change.

What YOU, or a majority here in the west want, will not change the game. It's primary build, the most updated one and the one which will have all the changes first, will be on the Korean servers.

The game will always be catered for Korean players, and they want mobs they can mow down quick for levels. A challenge would slow them down. 

You say what's common, but again that's common for the West. Just how many Korean Mmorpg's have you played?

In Korea the PVP content is the main draw. Mmo scene is starting to resemble the MOBA scene in respect to competitive play. The reason is also due to people paying for more cash items to compete against other players, than to be a bad ass when playing PVE.

I've said this before and i'll say it again:

What makes sense to you, what you dearly want this game to be, and what your understand of PVE is or should be, is not going to be the reason this game changes. If you get fed up of the PVE content as it is and leave the game, if most of the western gamer base do, the Korean version will still march on strong for a while.

You need to accept the game for what it is, for now. Or move on. 

I really feel a majority of you want this game to be molded into more of a western format to go with it's gorgeous graphics, but you're going to have to save yourself some heartache and let go of that poisonous dream. 

The most that you can hope for is that a Western team see the success this game has, and replicate it's greatness and adapt it more to your tastes. That's TBH is a better bet for your dreams than it is with BDO.

I understand what you are saying I really do, but that's not going to stop me from at least being hopeful. I have read somewhere that they will be adding dungeons to the game. I don't know if they are instanced or not though. I think if we just give it time they will add more challenging content as time goes on. 

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I understand what you are saying I really do, but that's not going to stop me from at least being hopeful. I have read somewhere that they will be adding dungeons to the game. I don't know if they are instanced or not though. I think if we just give it time they will add more challenging content as time goes on. 

hey hopeful I get. I've pre ordered, and not the cheapest pack either!

Don't get me wrong, if they did astonish me and suddenly give us the PVE content we all (including me) would love. I be thrilled. 

I'd come right here to say it to. I'd love to be wrong ;)

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hey hopeful I get. I've pre ordered, and not the cheapest pack either!

Don't get me wrong, if they did astonish me and suddenly give us the PVE content we all (including me) would love. I be thrilled. 

I'd come right here to say it to. I'd love to be wrong ;)

We will see next week if any improvements have been made! I'm pretty excited to play either way though. It has a lot more to offer than just PvP or PvE compared to other games. 

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Posted (edited)

We will see next week if any improvements have been made! I'm pretty excited to play either way though. It has a lot more to offer than just PvP or PvE compared to other games. 

It's the first Mmorpg I've been really keen to play in a while. Elder Scrolls online was good at launch but well it started to loose me after a while. I stopped playing well before it went FTP or BTP or whatever it is now.

I've recently installed Blade & Soul, and while there is a lot to enjoy with it, I still see more currently in BDO that appeals to me.

It reminds me of a really polished Dragons Dogma Online in some ways, and as I don't think that's coming over here, least not this year, BDO will do me just fine :)

Edited by Silentnigh7

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Posted (edited)

It's kindof of crazy to not have a good AI. If there's no challenge or fun the gear might as well just be handed out to us over time.

Granted players are more interesting than any IA could be, but sometimes you've just got to keep the goblin population in check.

PS: Monsters standing there while I kill them are VERY immersion breaking.

Edited by Sunless

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I honestly don't see why the majority of enemies cannot retain their brainless AI but allow for some that are difficult. Someone mentioned earlier elite enemies (which would really just be the same as bosses) that are smarter. At the very least I think bosses should be smarter...i don't understand how you can justify calling it a "boss" if it isn't any more difficult to defeat than regular dumb enemies.

For the whole elite thing, it would be nice if an elite version of the enemy had a chance to appear each hour if x amount of regular ones were killed. These versions would attack faster, have gap closers or CC and be able to dodge/block your attacks. If the elite isn't killed, he may call for backup after x attempts at his life, spawning a secondary elite. Perhaps give certain elites different behaviors, for instance even if a certain elite shows up, he has no interest in fighting weaker people...but if you are at a certain level he will come find you and beat the crap out of you. If you do this kind of thing correctly, you can keep PVE's faceroll aspect but give an added challenge for those wanting a change of pace for the day.

Whatever appeal there is in the Korean market for faceroll pve content, the appeal isn't the same in other markets including NA. I don't see the harm in adding elements to the PVE AI to cater to this market. It doesn't seem right to me if the only risk of dying is by the hands of another player.

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Posted (edited)

I'm ok with the regular mobs being mostly dumb as they are now, except for the big ones like the cyclops, he really ought to have a combo or two, not one big super slow swing.

It's the bosses I'm hoping for a bit more challenge from.  They don't really need to do more damage, or even be smarter, they need more complex attacks.  For example, combination attacks that track player position, so that avoiding them requires timing, not just positioning.  In fact most boss attacks should track the player during the animation.  Fast attacks, or unpredictable attacks, would also make them more challenging without increasing their stats or improving their AI.

Also, not only do I wish for more complex bosses, but more bosses in the world to fight.  In CBT1 I was only able to find one boss in the world by level 25.  I'm sure there are more planned for the final release, and I may have missed some of what was there.  What I want though is to be able to find bosses in any interesting locations in the world, dozens of them.  Find a Castle?  Boss inside.  Hidden cave behind a waterfall?  Boss inside.  Secluded meadow in a dark forest?  Boss location.  All of them with enough complexity that beating one on your own the first time you counter one will be a challenge. 

Edited by Climhazzard

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Posted

 

What YOU, or a majority here in the west want, will not change the game. It's primary build will be on the Korean servers.

All Regions will be balanced and localized on an individual basis. Much of what can be done to vary the builds is not necessarily related to core engine changes.

The game will always be catered for Korean players, and they want mobs they can mow down quick for levels. A challenge would slow them down. 

All Regions will be balanced and localized on an individual basis.

You say what's common, but again that's common for the West. Just how many Korean Mmorpg's have you played?

Too many, and they are all F2P, P2W, mindless grindfests, with copycat game mechanics and very shallow story. That's not something to try and emulate.

In Korea the PVP content is the main draw. MMO scene is starting to resemble the MOBA scene in respect to competitive play. The reason is also due to people paying for more cash items to compete against other players, than to be a bad ass when playing PVE.

I think you're trying to make an excuse for poor AI/Game design. Take a look at Blizzard's new MOBA, even there the mobs are smarter than BDO.

What makes sense to you, what you dearly want this game to be, and what your understand of PVE is or should be, is not going to be the reason this game changes. If you get fed up of the PVE content as it is and leave the game, if most of the western gamer base do, the Korean version will still march on strong for a while.

That's not how corporations operate. If the NA market looks like it's a bout to tank because poor content in one area, retreating back to Korea isn't as likely a them attempting to fix the root problems and regain revenue.

You need to accept the game for what it is, for now. Or move on. 

This forum is for players to discuss ideas regarding PvE and make suggestions to improve the game.

I really feel a majority of you want this game to be molded into more of a western format to go with it's gorgeous graphics, but you're going to have to save yourself some heartache and let go of that poisonous dream. The most that you can hope for is that a Western team see the success this game has, and replicate it's greatness and adapt it more to your tastes.

Or the devs could listen to the community and work with the many good suggestions given to make BDO a better game. Actually it looks like they are already doing this.

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True that! its 2016 for gods sake, time to create a mob with brains, how is it we can find the god particle in a tube in Geneva but cant get some basic A.I. in the century we live in??

I played a game that was released 2008. and had the AI no game after that ever beat. It was smart, challenging and deadly. Creating mobs with brains is not the matter of progression but cost and investment and that seems to be on a budget in most MMOs today.

I personally wouldnt mind something like original Tera BAMs.

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Posted (edited)

What YOU, or a majority here in the west want, will not change the game. It's primary build will be on the Korean servers.

All Regions will be balanced and localized on an individual basis. Much of what can be done to vary the builds is not necessarily related to core engine changes.

The game will always be catered for Korean players, and they want mobs they can mow down quick for levels. A challenge would slow them down. 

All Regions will be balanced and localized on an individual basis.

You say what's common, but again that's common for the West. Just how many Korean Mmorpg's have you played?

Too many, and they are all F2P, P2W, mindless grindfests, with copycat game mechanics and very shallow story. That's not something to try and emulate.

In Korea the PVP content is the main draw. MMO scene is starting to resemble the MOBA scene in respect to competitive play. The reason is also due to people paying for more cash items to compete against other players, than to be a bad ass when playing PVE.

I think you're trying to make an excuse for poor AI/Game design. Take a look at Blizzard's new MOBA, even there the mobs are smarter than BDO.

What makes sense to you, what you dearly want this game to be, and what your understand of PVE is or should be, is not going to be the reason this game changes. If you get fed up of the PVE content as it is and leave the game, if most of the western gamer base do, the Korean version will still march on strong for a while.

That's not how corporations operate. If the NA market looks like it's a bout to tank because poor content in one area, retreating back to Korea isn't as likely a them attempting to fix the root problems and regain revenue.

You need to accept the game for what it is, for now. Or move on. 

This forum is for players to discuss ideas regarding PvE and make suggestions to improve the game.

I really feel a majority of you want this game to be molded into more of a western format to go with it's gorgeous graphics, but you're going to have to save yourself some heartache and let go of that poisonous dream. The most that you can hope for is that a Western team see the success this game has, and replicate it's greatness and adapt it more to your tastes.

Or the devs could listen to the community and work with the many good suggestions given to make BDO a better game. Actually it looks like they are already doing this.

Your one of the passionate ones who are always hit hardest when the changes don't come.

You think I'm trying this, You think I'm imply that.

Lord' like I've said projecting your frustration on to me, as an individual, for the information I have relayed to you or anyone who reads this matters naught. You can believe I'm wrong if you like of course that's fine. 

As I said a few posts ago, I wish I was, or should that be will be as this is about the future that hasn't happened yet. ;)

I'm quite honestly putting information here that's for anyone to find themselves with some google research or experience in trying games built initially for an eastern market.

BDO will always be, and shall remain catered for the Korean market. What you have said about regions, is only true up to the degree of what is filtered down to us and what isn't. We won't get any special treatment, special releases, or changes for behavour of the game that's different to the other regions. A majority of everything will be cut and paste with changes to the pay content perhaps only.

The western market is not as important to them as you think it is. A lot of players realize this and actually won't be coming to Eu/NA servers they are staying put as they know the best content, all classes, and optimization patches etc will be there first and foremost. Some content will take a good long while to come to us, some content may never reach us.

The fact that you are mistaking the MOB design for poor, because it doesn't suit your taste, is why to be honest I shouldn't be spending as much time on this reply as I am.

This section forum is to discuss PVE content. At no point does it state feedback for future changes.

Talking about quests, builds for pve farm etc and all of that sure.

It doesn't say people can't talk about changes they would like to see, and I won't stop them.

The nature of PVE on this forum though again is stated to be something by you, that comes from your frustration with BDO as it currently is, because it's not giving you something you want.

You need to appreciate BDO for what it is now, and try to understand why the PVE content isn't some lazy mistake, but entirely intended for a form of player you are not very familiar with. That isn't your fault, but it does start to become your error not their's when you don't educate yourself and ask questions instead of coming in here and giving off statements you claim as fact, when they are anything but my friend.

"That's not how corporations operate. If the NA market looks like it's a bout to tank because poor content in one area, retreating back to Korea isn't as likely a them attempting to fix the root problems and regain revenue."

Again no. This has been released to the west for extra revenue. we aren't it's primary target, and will be the first to be dropped if profits etc weren't acceptable. The player base in the east are uber grind core and will pump money into this game at a more Consistent rate.

To put this in simple terms the western audience to the makers of BDO is like the PC player base to WB/Rocksteady when they released The Arkham Knight. We aren't the focus for where the money is.

Why do you think games like Dragons Dogma Online haven't come over here? It's questions like that you need to research.

The fact this game has been released as buy to play in the west should be your first clue in regard to how long they think the game will last over here. The profit they make from those purchases will cover them if the player base eventually drops off. They didn't do that in the East as the know the player base will remain, because as I've been saying the game is built with them in mind for the long term.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Silentnigh7

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Unfortunately I have not have the chance to play the game although I've seen a lot of videos.

I've played MMO's for a long time, and is always interesting finding some challenge every now and then in mobs, but like a lot of people said here that it might be way too annoying making every single mob have a super smart AI (for players and devs) but having some special randomness to the mobs like captains and commanders to be a little more of a challenging situation, I think would be a great match to change the grinding setting to make it more interesting and not drooling repetitive.

Definitely World-Bosses should be a challenge and not some meat bags that just takes you time to kill.

 

Please be gentle I just got here hahaha!

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Posted

 

 

 

 

 

 

BDO will always be, and shall remain catered for the Korean market. What you have said about regions, is only true up to the degree of what is filtered down to us and what isn't. We won't get any special treatment, special releases, or changes for behavour of the game that's different to the other regions. A majority of everything will be cut and paste with changes to the pay content perhaps only.

As ime passes, the core market and engine will be focused towards whoever has the highest evenue stream. If it is Korea, then they will program for korea first. However if NA/EU generate far more revenue, then the content focus will switch to NA/EU.

The western market is not as important to them as you think it is. A lot of players realize this and actually won't be coming to Eu/NA servers they are staying put as they know the best content, all classes, and optimization patches etc will be there first and foremost. Some content will take a good long while to come to us, some content may never reach us.

The western market is pretty solid. In the end, money talks.

The fact that you are mistaking the MOB design for poor, because it doesn't suit your taste, is why to be honest I shouldn't be spending as much time on this reply as I am.

The mob design is poor, not because it doesn't suit my taste, it is poor simply because it is substandard programming and design. That's a purely qualitative statement. Korean players may not notice because Krean games tend to suck in general, but just because every other korean MMO has shitty AI, doesn't make BDO mobs better.

This section forum is to discuss PVE content. At no point does it state feedback for future changes.

Pay more attention to the forums. You'll see many posts made by the devs asking for feedback and suggestions.

The nature of PVE on this forum though again is stated to be something by you, that comes from your frustration with BDO as it currently is, because it's not giving you something you want.

The PVE is pretty weak. That's just a fact. Hopefully the devs take some more classes on behavioral coding and decide to implement some changes. They are already trying. so I say just give them some time and maybe they'll learn how to code for challenging encounters.

You need to appreciate BDO for what it is now, and try to understand why the PVE content isn't some lazy mistake, but entirely intended for a form of player you are not very familiar with. That isn't your fault, but it does start to become your error not their's when you don't educate yourself and ask questions instead of coming in here and giving off statements you claim as fact, when they are anything but my friend.

Weak coding and lazy mob AI is not caused by intent, but inability. Game designers will always try and implement the best systems they are capable of coding. This is PA's first major release, so certain areas will be weaker than others when it comes to the dev team's skill level. However it will get better over time and we'll see improvements as time passes.

Why do you think games like Dragons Dogma Online haven't come over here? It's questions like that you need to research.

Most korean games suck. They simply can't compete with western AAA titles. BDO might have a shot, but the inherent weaknesses in game design will hold it back from AAA revenue generation. PA could do what you're suggesting and ignore the fact that western audiences just expect a higher level of competence and quality in game design, but it would be much smarter just to improve those areas that are weak instead of ignoring obvious failings.

The fact this game has been released as buy to play in the west should be your first clue in regard to how long they think the game will last over here. The profit they make from those purchases will cover them if the player base eventually drops off. They didn't do that in the East as the know the player base will remain, because as I've been saying the game is built with them in mind for the long term.

It released as B2P to avoid the massive population loss suffered n the KR/RU servers. F2P has a predictable market and subscriber use trends in NA. Everyone hates P2W and inconvenience built into games designed for F2P. So they went B2P and rebalanced the entire game in terms of loot, leveling curve, and item power levels. The devs know what happened to games like Archeage and don't want to repeat their failure.

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I played a game that was released 2008. and had the AI no game after that ever beat. It was smart, challenging and deadly. Creating mobs with brains is not the matter of progression but cost and investment and that seems to be on a budget in most MMOs today.

I personally wouldnt mind something like original Tera BAMs.

yeah teras mobs aren't to bad, what game did you play in 2008?

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yeah teras mobs aren't to bad, what game did you play in 2008?

Tera mobs are rather bad now, but BAMs at release were tricky and fun to solo.

The game with the most impressive AI I ever saw was called The Chronicles of Spellborn. It was the first MMO shooter, the combat was very similar to Tera only a lot more complex and was not all about dps but buffing yourself/debuffing the enemy. Most skills were complementary, in example if you used a skill that gave you acceleration in attack speed, you had a choice of other skills that took advantage of more attack speed to use next. If you were smart you could basically bring your opponent to a halt no matter the level. 

Mobs were using the same principle of buffing themselves (and other mobs) and debuffing you. So you could in example find a lone wolf, attack it, he would call for help and all wolves in rather big radius would run at you. You could never see how many are around, they were roaming in the bushes and behind the rocks. If 5-6 of them debuffed your run speed you were good as dead so you had to dodge a lot while trying to silence them. Humanoids worked together too, buffing and protecting each other, melee mobs would always try to cover up casters in the back. Aggro was different (there was no holy trinity, every class could dps and selfheal), it didnt work on damage as normally, but on weakest group member, be it a cloth wearer or whoever was lowest on hp so aggro shifted constantly. Since debuffs were stackable, going alone against a group of 2-3 mobs was quite hard, in example a type of archer had debuff that tripled their damage, if you got a few stacks you would get oneshotted. Then there were melee mobs who would use some kind of whirlwind skill, if you didnt get out of range fast they would just shred you to pieces. Those same mobs patrolled around with wolves who, like I said, had a run speed debuff that would make it tough to actually get out of range. Many different types of mobs worked in combos like that. For each player skill AI had some kind of counterpart or same/similar skill and mobs would use them accordingly.

I thought the game was brilliant and really enjoyed playing it. But many players demanded changes because it was "too hard".

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BDO will always be, and shall remain catered for the Korean market. What you have said about regions, is only true up to the degree of what is filtered down to us and what isn't. We won't get any special treatment, special releases, or changes for behavour of the game that's different to the other regions. A majority of everything will be cut and paste with changes to the pay content perhaps only.

As ime passes, the core market and engine will be focused towards whoever has the highest evenue stream. If it is Korea, then they will program for korea first. However if NA/EU generate far more revenue, then the content focus will switch to NA/EU.

The western market is not as important to them as you think it is. A lot of players realize this and actually won't be coming to Eu/NA servers they are staying put as they know the best content, all classes, and optimization patches etc will be there first and foremost. Some content will take a good long while to come to us, some content may never reach us.

The western market is pretty solid. In the end, money talks.

The fact that you are mistaking the MOB design for poor, because it doesn't suit your taste, is why to be honest I shouldn't be spending as much time on this reply as I am.

The mob design is poor, not because it doesn't suit my taste, it is poor simply because it is substandard programming and design. That's a purely qualitative statement. Korean players may not notice because Krean games tend to suck in general, but just because every other korean MMO has shitty AI, doesn't make BDO mobs better.

This section forum is to discuss PVE content. At no point does it state feedback for future changes.

Pay more attention to the forums. You'll see many posts made by the devs asking for feedback and suggestions.

The nature of PVE on this forum though again is stated to be something by you, that comes from your frustration with BDO as it currently is, because it's not giving you something you want.

The PVE is pretty weak. That's just a fact. Hopefully the devs take some more classes on behavioral coding and decide to implement some changes. They are already trying. so I say just give them some time and maybe they'll learn how to code for challenging encounters.

You need to appreciate BDO for what it is now, and try to understand why the PVE content isn't some lazy mistake, but entirely intended for a form of player you are not very familiar with. That isn't your fault, but it does start to become your error not their's when you don't educate yourself and ask questions instead of coming in here and giving off statements you claim as fact, when they are anything but my friend.

Weak coding and lazy mob AI is not caused by intent, but inability. Game designers will always try and implement the best systems they are capable of coding. This is PA's first major release, so certain areas will be weaker than others when it comes to the dev team's skill level. However it will get better over time and we'll see improvements as time passes.

Why do you think games like Dragons Dogma Online haven't come over here? It's questions like that you need to research.

Most korean games suck. They simply can't compete with western AAA titles. BDO might have a shot, but the inherent weaknesses in game design will hold it back from AAA revenue generation. PA could do what you're suggesting and ignore the fact that western audiences just expect a higher level of competence and quality in game design, but it would be much smarter just to improve those areas that are weak instead of ignoring obvious failings.

The fact this game has been released as buy to play in the west should be your first clue in regard to how long they think the game will last over here. The profit they make from those purchases will cover them if the player base eventually drops off. They didn't do that in the East as the know the player base will remain, because as I've been saying the game is built with them in mind for the long term.

It released as B2P to avoid the massive population loss suffered n the KR/RU servers. F2P has a predictable market and subscriber use trends in NA. Everyone hates P2W and inconvenience built into games designed for F2P. So they went B2P and rebalanced the entire game in terms of loot, leveling curve, and item power levels. The devs know what happened to games like Archeage and don't want to repeat their failure.

"The western market is pretty solid. In the end, money talks."*

 

This is where you fail. For Mmorpgs the west is not at all stable and most games are suffering.

Every major Mmorpg in the west has suffered subscription withdraw or less paid for paid content over the last two years. This has been shown from staff layoffs and changes in paid content, price hikes etc (which should have come down not gone up but who said the fat cats who own these mmorpg's need to make sense eh!). 

This spans from WoW, Neverwinter, Elder Scrolls, SWTOR, I could go on and on and on. 

I have absolutely no idea where you are getting your facts from. Anyway my time is limited, and far too much has spent spent with this pointless back and forth with your blind faith, so:

I think truth is, we need to wait a year or so to see which of us is right.

In an ideal world your wishing upon a star would prevail. I've just been gaming far too long for that kiddo.

Best of luck. Best thing is, if you're right, we both win because i'll love BDO all the more ;)

Best of luck!

Edited by Silentnigh7
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"The western market is pretty solid. In the end, money talks."*

 

This is where you fail. For Mmorpgs the west is not at all stable and most games are suffering.

Every major Mmorpg in the west has suffered subscription withdraw or less paid for paid content over the last two years. This has been shown from staff layoffs and changes in paid content, price hikes etc (which should have come down not gone up but who said the fat cats who own these mmorpg's need to make sense eh!). 

This spans from WoW, Neverwinter, Elder Scrolls, SWTOR, I could go on and on and on. 

I have absolutely no idea where you are getting your facts from. Anyway my time is limited, and far too much has spent spent with this pointless back and forth with your blind faith, so:

I think truth is, we need to wait a year or so to see which of us is right.

In an ideal world your wishing upon a star would prevail. I've just been gaming far too long for that kiddo.

Best of luck. Best thing is, if you're right, we both win because i'll love BDO all the more ;)

Best of luck!

Video games have a short shelf life. That's just how things work in a world governed by Moore's law.

I don't blame the region for the lack of success of those games. I blame the games themselves for being substandard pieces of trash. The last few years have been a slew of derivative copycat titles. They all suffered terrible game mechanics and balancing issues, as well as a worn and dated combat and questing mechanic. Crappy games get crappy results.

WoW, is older than dirt. It's honestly surprising that they managed to stay afloat this long. I guess being run by Blizzard doesn't hurt.

Neverwinter is just a bad game. It has graphics from the 90's and game mechanics lifted straight from C-grade titles elsewhere on the market. SWTOR was lucky to have the star wars brand, because the game itself was a total WoW ripoff. TESO had massive launch related issues, it wasn't until a full year after release that they squared the bugs away, and they went F2P well before that happened.

NA/EU is still the largest market for video game purchases and subscriptions. But don't expect longevity if you bring in garbage Korean F2P gameplay mechanics. A good game will get good results. Games with major weaknesses will be crapped on all over by the press, and the consumers will all leave for a better game.

 

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*"NA/EU is still the largest market for video game purchases and subscriptions".

For triple A titles like GTA, Call of Duty etc your right.

For Mmorpg's, you couldn't be more, completely wrong. 

There's a reason all the spam and farms bots come from Korea my friend. 

Again you're mistaken, and with this it isn't even very hard to find the facts. The only game in the west to ever compete with Korea was WoW and that took a lot from the Korean scene, as did Star Wars Galaxies at the time. In fact if not for the Korean scene, we wouldn't have had those games as SOE and Blizzard would have never seen how profitable they can be.

Now that's me commenting more when I said I wouldn't but I think that tops all this off quite nicely. Google is a wonderful tool, use it wisely. ;)

My god be with you.

Edited by Silentnigh7

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top_10_mmos_by_worldwide_revenue_2014

Outside of lineage all that money is NA/EU

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top_10_mmos_by_worldwide_revenue_2014

Outside of lineage all that money is NA/EU

...Where on earth did you.... 

 

Mate look at that list LOOK/

An FPS e sport, World of Tanks wth?

The only MMorpg on that list to my knowledge is Lineage and WoW which I already said brought in money, oh and by the way has a SHIT TON of Korean servers!

The rest have nothing to do with the MMorpg market. Which is what we are talking about, aren't we?

Look Korea should practically trade mark Mmorpg. The Gaming cafe's alone my god, they are chock full 24/7. Many players have literally died in them playing too much check it out.

Um yeah I'm done, be well lad. Be well.... 

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...Where on earth did you.... 

 

Mate look at that list LOOK/

An FPS e sport, World of Tanks wth?

The only MMorpg on that list to my knowledge is Lineage and WoW which I already said brought in money, oh and by the way has a SHIT TON of Korean servers!

The rest have nothing to do with the MMorpg market. Which is what we are talking about, aren't we?

Look Korea should practically trade mark Mmorpg. The Gaming cafe's alone my god, they are chock full 24/7. Many players have literally died in them playing too much check it out.

Um yeah I'm done, be well lad. Be well.... 

I could be wrong, but I feel that if Blizzard actually took the plunge and made a sandbox/action combat sequel to WoW it would completely blow every mmorpg out of the water income wise. There is no denying that WoW is the most influential mmorpg that has existed. If it weren't for them being money hungry and afraid of losing profits I'm certain they would have already started a new game. At the rate they are going now WoW will slowly die off with all these new innovative mmorpgs coming out. I've never liked WoW, but I believe Blizzard could make a brilliant new age sandbox mmorpg if they wanted to. I don't think we will ever see a new mmorpg from them unless something really drastic happens. 

This is off topic I know haha. 

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I could be wrong, but I feel that if Blizzard actually took the plunge and made a sandbox/action combat sequel to WoW it would completely blow every mmorpg out of the water income wise. There is no denying that WoW is the most influential mmorpg that has existed. If it weren't for them being money hungry and afraid of losing profits I'm certain they would have already started a new game. At the rate they are going now WoW will slowly die off with all these new innovative mmorpgs coming out. I've never liked WoW, but I believe Blizzard could make a brilliant new age sandbox mmorpg if they wanted to. I don't think we will ever see a new mmorpg from them unless something really drastic happens. 
This is off topic I know haha. 

Blizzard could spit into a cup and mix it with dirt and people would still buy it.

I actually am hoping that they finally stop funding WoW and put that money into a next gen MMO. I'm tired of waiting for Star Citizen to get released... If blizzard started development today, they could still release before Chris Roberts, and probably make a better game while ding it.

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I could be wrong, but I feel that if Blizzard actually took the plunge and made a sandbox/action combat sequel to WoW it would completely blow every mmorpg out of the water income wise. There is no denying that WoW is the most influential mmorpg that has existed. If it weren't for them being money hungry and afraid of losing profits I'm certain they would have already started a new game. At the rate they are going now WoW will slowly die off with all these new innovative mmorpgs coming out. I've never liked WoW, but I believe Blizzard could make a brilliant new age sandbox mmorpg if they wanted to. I don't think we will ever see a new mmorpg from them unless something really drastic happens. 
This is off topic I know haha. 

If Blizzard did... wow. Yeah with the staff, money, and talent at their disposal the mind boggles. I played WoW on the US launch from the UK. I stayed up till silly O'clock in the morning to log on (or try) when servers went live. Hammered it for a good few weeks.

When it was fresh out, it was glorious. I joined in the hype as well when the UK one dropped shortly after. Was truly a great game for a while there, really good feel to it and community etc. Stopped playing years back, this is even before Burning crusade came out.

If they could bring something out that embodies a more open world, with an updated graphics engine etc I'd be first in line to pre order and play.

If they made for example an Mmorpg out of the Diablo franchise, think I'd cry tears of joy. 

 

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If Blizzard did... wow. Yeah with the staff, money, and talent at their disposal the mind boggles. I played WoW on the US launch from the UK. I stayed up till silly O'clock in the morning to log on (or try) when servers went live. Hammered it for a good few weeks.

When it was fresh out, it was glorious. I joined in the hype as well when the UK one dropped shortly after. Was truly a great game for a while there, really good feel to it and community etc. Stopped playing years back, this is even before Burning crusade came out.

If they could bring something out that embodies a more open world, with an updated graphics engine etc I'd be first in line to pre order and play.

If they made for example an Mmorpg out of the Diablo franchise, think I'd cry tears of joy. 

 

Diablo or Starcraft Online would be the greatest shiznit ever made!

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Blizzard could spit into a cup and mix it with dirt and people would still buy it.

I actually am hoping that they finally stop funding WoW and put that money into a next gen MMO. I'm tired of waiting for Star Citizen to get released... If blizzard started development today, they could still release before Chris Roberts, and probably make a better game while ding it.

LOL, No. 

Is all going to be full production value shiny visual content with no meaning, a waste amount of marketing non-sense to brainwash you and a huge/grind fest.

Shit, Acti/Blizzard almost don't need marketing, they are basically Apple. People buy regardless of value/quality. Look at Overwatch Hype, and Diablo 3 disaster.  

Everything Activision touch over the years turns into greedfest shit, that people die for it, apparently. 

And please don't be that dumb and bash Star Citizen, for a game in development for 3 years or so, when games like this, MMORPGs(like Black Desert) flat-out take around 5+ years in development. Go sell your SC account if you can't wait. 

Anyway, on a side note and to the matter of this thread:

This game have everything I being waiting for, for really long years. A really good, sandbox game, that make you feel like a adventurer and make you work because you feel like you are living the world and the lore, instead of just going around doing quest you probably going to skip on a theme-park experience, full of grind non-sense for level cap, then gear grind to Item level cap, then if you want to PVP, gear for pvp IL cap and all for just a basic straight forward pvp experience that is lame and boring and break immersion, and that is almost every single MMO after WOW(Apparently, people like them, because they spawn everywhere).

All that great feeling and all, until I went to do a job for the local Camp... you know, get some wolf meat for the npc. So I went to a group of 5 wolfs, I proceed to kill one, I grab the butcher knife, get the meat, all in front of the 4 remaining wolfs standing 1 feet away. None of the 4 remaining wolf did anything. It make me feel like I wanted to uninstall the game completely and forget the game ever existed. The AI is really that bad, and it really need fixing, I don't know, what kind of mmo players are Koreans and Russians, but back in NA, before "Wow's" and what not, there was Ultima online and Everquest.

And no, I don't give two shit about instance dungeons.

That "Endgame" people talk and love so much, is themepark mmo non-sense, stop growing so attach to it.

 

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