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Improving PVE gameplay and Monster AI


Rate your opinion of the standard AI monsters encountered in game   243 votes

  1. 1. What is your opinion of standard mobs in game?

    • Too easy, improve AI to create a challenge. (Please post any specific behaviors you want to see)
      135
    • Too easy, change monster stats to make them tougher. (which stats?)
      6
    • Too easy, improve AI and cange monster stats
      44
    • Just right, don't change anything
      46
    • Too hard, make the mobs even easier to kill
      12

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

121 posts in this topic

Posted

I'd like mobs to actually attack me, not spend 2 seconds in an attack animation, slamming into empty air I dodged out of 3 seconds ago.

Defsive abilities.

Not always grouping up.

Healing.

Bosses need to be very dangerous to engage. 

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Posted

LOL, No. 

Is all going to be full production value shiny visual content with no meaning, a waste amount of marketing non-sense to brainwash you and a huge/grind fest.

Shit, Acti/Blizzard almost don't need marketing, they are basically Apple. People buy regardless of value/quality. Look at Overwatch Hype, and Diablo 3 disaster.  

Everything Activision touch over the years turns into greedfest shit, that people die for it, apparently. 

And please don't be that dumb and bash Star Citizen, for a game in development for 3 years or so, when games like this, MMORPGs(like Black Desert) flat-out take around 5+ years in development. Go sell your SC account if you can't wait. 

Anyway, on a side note and to the matter of this thread:

This game have everything I being waiting for, for really long years. A really good, sandbox game, that make you feel like a adventurer and make you work because you feel like you are living the world and the lore, instead of just going around doing quest you probably going to skip on a theme-park experience, full of grind non-sense for level cap, then gear grind to Item level cap, then if you want to PVP, gear for pvp IL cap and all for just a basic straight forward pvp experience that is lame and boring and break immersion, and that is almost every single MMO after WOW(Apparently, people like them, because they spawn everywhere).

All that great feeling and all, until I went to do a job for the local Camp... you know, get some wolf meat for the npc. So I went to a group of 5 wolfs, I proceed to kill one, I grab the butcher knife, get the meat, all in front of the 4 remaining wolfs standing 1 feet away. None of the 4 remaining wolf did anything. It make me feel like I wanted to uninstall the game completely and forget the game ever existed. The AI is really that bad, and it really need fixing, I don't know, what kind of mmo players are Koreans and Russians, but back in NA, before "Wow's" and what not, there was Ultima online and Everquest.

And no, I don't give two shit about instance dungeons.

That "Endgame" people talk and love so much, is themepark mmo non-sense, stop growing so attach to it.

 

Crap on Star Citizen?!!! I bought a Constellation Phoenix. I've supported the game more than most. It's no lie that they've taken forever and still don't look anywhere close to completion. PTU 2.1 is buggy as hell and has no useful or fun features. 5 years is a long time. They need to pull their shit together and make a game instead of just announcing features they never get around to coding.

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Posted

Personally, I'm not super bothered by enemy stats so much. The enemies could probably stand to be beefed up a bit, but what I personally think the enemy AI needs is some sort of hostility mechanic. Enemies just ignore you until you attack first and only ones you hit will fight you. This means you always get the first hit, and also get to feel like a jerk, so you always start with the upper hand. I think enemies should attack and chase you on sight, so there is more of a sense of urgency to plan how you face them and enter their territory. Personally, I'd like to see atleast some sort of zone of hostility where if you get too close they'll attack. Maybe they chase you to the edge of their turf if you need to retreat? Also this would allow enemies to gang up on you making fights harder, and make the whole sneaking and going prone actually relevant since you could use it to sneak through tougher areas or escape pursuers without having to completely leave their territory. I really love so much of what this game is offering, but I think you need to plan ahead. You can't PvP until level 50 and even a game as awesome as this won't be populated forever. Having enemies that are challenging and require a level of thought to defeat will keep people coming back even when the game is old and there's barely anyone to PvP with anymore. Plus it would promote more co-op. That's just my thoughts on it so far though.

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Posted (edited)

The AI is simply brain dead in this game.  I could understand easy but brain dead is a whole different difficulty. I understand I only played till lv 20 but it was an easy mob beating ride to it. Keep on hearing that the mobs are just "Gear checks" and bosses are giant "HP Bags". So far I feel like I've been beating up kids with down syndrome.  They should just rename the game to "The Rock Vs Stephen Hawking".

 

Besides that... I LOVE everything else about the game. Can't wait to play it at launch :)

Edited by RedX801

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Posted

The AI is simply brain dead in this game.  I could understand easy but brain dead is a whole different difficulty. I understand I only played till lv 20 but it was an easy mob beating ride to it. Keep on hearing that the mobs are just "Gear checks" and bosses are giant "HP Bags". So far I feel like I've been beating up kids with down syndrome.  They should just rename the game to "The Rock Vs Stephen Hawking".

 

Besides that... I LOVE everything else about the game. Can't wait to play it at launch :)

+1

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Posted (edited)

The AI is simply brain dead in this game.  I could understand easy but brain dead is a whole different difficulty. I understand I only played till lv 20 but it was an easy mob beating ride to it. Keep on hearing that the mobs are just "Gear checks" and bosses are giant "HP Bags". So far I feel like I've been beating up kids with down syndrome.  They should just rename the game to "The Rock Vs Stephen Hawking".

 

Besides that... I LOVE everything else about the game. Can't wait to play it at launch :)

+1 @CM_Jouska please take notice of this i dunno why this is still like this in our version of the game, western MMO players who play games like this want to be challenged and a sense of danger from lvl 1 on, i read an interview with Pearl Abyss and they explained why the game is like this in Korea (mobile gamers,casuals) but people like that don't really play games like this here so please make the game a bit more challenging from the beginning.

Edited by Teno1

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Posted

You want challenging opponent?

PVP is the answer.

The only essential script for Ai: When HP(0) -> Die.

not everyone want to PVP non-stop if the mobs are to easy then whole gameplay will suffer cos we will get bored quick. 

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Posted

I guess we can all just Dark souls our way through this, suggested improved ai system. COMBAT ROLL! COMBAT ROLL! Off the ledge, dead...

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Posted

 

I'm a big fan of how the big dudes in tera feel. Like how they have a small tell before they unleash a dangerous attack and if you miss it you'll have a difficult time.

Some of the mobs (up to 30 at least) are really sluggish and their "big attacks" the ones that lock them in an animation for 5 seconds deal hardly any damage. Not to mention that they take forever to chase after you when you aggro.

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Posted

As mentioned before, if anything is going to be done about the issue it will be done post launch with most of the characters and content released. After that though i can see that most players will make enough noise for it to be actioned. I agree in most part that the mobs should be updated, as i think its the only major flaw in the game for, i have had my fairshare of mmorpg's both Asian and western (Aion,Archage,Tera,Neverwinter etc) and while the mobs or bosses gave me a challenge to look forward too, the combat was so shit i couldn't play anymore than an hour or so at one point ( the most time i put into a mmorpg was Aion) Here it is the opposite the combat is so lively and fun but the mobs aren't.

Its not a question of making them hit harder they already do but the just move/react fast enough to land a hit.  You could hit a mob in the fac jump over him and slap his back 10 times,send a text to your bae, check the oven before it decides turn......which at that point its dead already. so after a while you will see people not playing as long they want to due to the lack of challenge 

Bosses are even worse, most of them are just lumber-some, es they hit hard but if they cant  hit their target what good does that do? AOE attacks need to be implemented more along with the speed and direction of attacks, Having a weak AI lowers the incentive of playing in a group because there's no challenge to it. Not much of a need to heal, not much of a need to tank, not much a need to do sneak back attack, all we need to do is stand there and spam attacks until its dead 

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Posted

You guys are not truely understanding what the Daum is doing. There are so many other things you can be doing to keep your interest in BDO besides fighting monsters and mobs. Daum intentionally made the mechanics easier so that you could get to the other aspects that make this mmo great. The exploration, the crafting, the fishing, the housing just to name a few. You should really try to experience more.

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Posted

You guys are not truely understanding what the Daum is doing. There are so many other things you can be doing to keep your interest in BDO besides fighting monsters and mobs. Daum intentionally made the mechanics easier so that you could get to the other aspects that make this mmo great. The exploration, the crafting, the fishing, the housing just to name a few. You should really try to experience more.

+1 So true, I only barely scratched the surface of the things to do in the game during the cbt. Thousands of quests I haven't even unlocked.

 

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2016-02-21_106114680.JPG

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Posted (edited)

I played the CBT2, and really enjoyed the game, I've played quite a few, Diablo, 1,2,3, Guild wars  1 and 2, hellgate London and hellgate global-RIP, I can tell you, I felt a lot or diablo II nostalgia, because of the skill tree, character skill building, also in the environment, the imps especially, anyhow, I saw 2 of the world bosses, and they seam mostly static, as in they don't really move? Honestly, this is unacceptable, I want world bosses that terrify me, , think about the fight against diablo in the chaos sanctuary, this monster felt intelligent, it was scary it would track you down and murder you if you allowed it, a world boss, SHOULD be an awesome force, it should scare the players, it should be very mobile, for example the mudman, should maybe turn into a pool of mud and suck players under, and recovering from this could have many options you can consider, also, maybe give it the ability to petrify people , turn them to stone, for a duration of time?, should also pick up players and throw them, or crush them, a static boss that just stands there is super boring, if you want to see a scary boss to reference, just look at, Diablo from diablo II, or most bosses from Hellgate, also the game really needs end game content other than just questing, some dungeons, team co-op harder than normal areas can be on land or underground I really don't care, with some puzzle room mechanics, that maybe take team coop to complete to move forward, with rewards like a currency to buy weapon and costumes maybe unobtainable otherwise, and maybe also upgrade components account bound on aquire, so its only for upgrading your own gear, but yeah, monster AI is really IMPORTANT, I am disappointed, also i think skill reset, should be obtainable from boss drops, or from some quest worthy of such a reward, maybe doing special requests from the skill merchant, to reset one line even, or x number of points to refund

Edited by solitudinem
additional information

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Posted

Simple stateless AI
            If damage > morale
               if can-run-away-from-player
                  run-away-from-player
               else if can-attack-player
                  attack-player
            else if too-far-from-player
               AND can-attack-player
               AND can-move-toward-player
                   if  random < charge-probability
                       move-toward-player     
                   else attack-player
            else if too-close-to-character
               AND can-attack-player
               AND can-move-away-from-player
                   if random < retreat-probability
                      move-away-from-player
                   else attack-player
            else if can-attack-player
               attack-player
            else if too-far-from-player 
               AND can-move-toward-player
     move-toward-player
            else if too-close-to-player
               AND can-move-away-from-player
                   move-away-from-player
            else stand-still

Here is a list of the primitives

  • can-move-toward-player
  • move-toward-player
  • can-move-away-from-player
  • move-away-from-player
  • can-run-away-from-player
  • run-away-from-player
  • can-attack-player
  • attack-player
  • too-far-from-player
  • too-close-to-player
  • stand-still
  • player-is-friend
  • player-has-food
  • player-too-powerful
  • player-is-same-alignment
  • player-is-opposed-alignment
  • enough-buddies-in-pack
  • too-far-from-pack-center
  • can-move-toward-pack-center
  • move-toward-pack-center
  • too-close-to-pack-center
  • can-move-away-from-pack-center
  • move-away-from-pack-center

Holy shit! Someone is motivated! I'd have to agree with some of the other comments though. No AI will ever compare with other players, simply because people can be unpredictable!

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Posted

not everyone want to PVP non-stop if the mobs are to easy then whole gameplay will suffer cos we will get bored quick. 

Now I have to sound like evil peeveepeener and tell you indeed if you want a challenge go fight players. If all you want to do in BDO is fight mobs, then plenty of other games do that much better. You dont want to PvP, you dont want to immerse yourself in a complex crafting and other systems..... why exactly are you playing this one?

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Posted

Now I have to sound like evil peeveepeener and tell you indeed if you want a challenge go fight players. If all you want to do in BDO is fight mobs, then plenty of other games do that much better. You dont want to PvP, you dont want to immerse yourself in a complex crafting and other systems..... why exactly are you playing this one?

A pvper needs to be semi balanced, a boss does not have to be balanced at all.

A pvper has human tendencies, moods, and inconsistent, a boss does not have any of that, and is always reliable 24/7

PvP is in the end pvp, don't go trying to shove one into another.

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Posted (edited)

A pvper needs to be semi balanced, a boss does not have to be balanced at all.

A pvper has human tendencies, moods, and inconsistent, a boss does not have any of that, and is always reliable 24/7

PvP is in the end pvp, don't go trying to shove one into another.

So you want something not balanced aka easy, something always available aka boring, something predictable aka easy and boring...... yet you whine how mobs in BDO are too easy and you will get bored and dont want to PvP.

Ic.

Edited by Kat

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Posted

From my limited 20 levels of experience in CBT2 the mobs are way too easy. The game is so beautiful but I would finish up my kill quests so quickly I didn't get to know the areas I was questing in. Like I would head the glowing area grab up all the mobs I could, cast a few spells and bingo boingo done with quest. 

 

I'd estimate they need to be about 30% more difficult. I don't know if that needs to be done through AI, extra HP's or higher attack, but just do something to draw out the experience and let the gamers enjoy all the beautiful stuff people spent time coding. 

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Posted

The game is so beautiful but I would finish up my kill quests so quickly I didn't get to know the areas I was questing in.

So the only way to get to know some area is to kill mobs in it? God forbid you run around a bit and gather or just explore? 

Do you people even friggin hear yourself......

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Posted

idk if it was just me but I noticed the monsters don't attack unless you attack first which is funny. I would like more monsters to be aware and attack on their own instead of just waiting around. I would love if they were more challenging like quicker to respond instead of a long drawn out animation, so it wouldn't feel like a chore when I mass murder them lol.

I agree that even simple mobs should have a dodge and block mechanic makes it more fun and challenging for pve.

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Posted

The problem is normal monster AI is fine, aside from the issue players have with "agro distance".  The monsters move and attack well, but the AI only SEEMS lacking because our characters are closer to Marvel Super Heroes then anything.  That is an issue with all Korean MMO's, just way to over the top with combat.  Until Bethesda decides to make a real MMO with skyrim/fallout combat we will be stuck with over sexxed Korean MMOs with super heroes for characters.

 

On the other hand boss AI should be improved to more scripted fights like Tera.  So far all the boss videos I have seen here are just a ton of rangers going at a boss who preety much stands there taking hits.

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Posted

idk if it was just me but I noticed the monsters don't attack unless you attack first which is funny. I would like more monsters to be aware and attack on their own instead of just waiting around. I would love if they were more challenging like quicker to respond instead of a long drawn out animation, so it wouldn't feel like a chore when I mass murder them lol.

I agree that even simple mobs should have a dodge and block mechanic makes it more fun and challenging for pve.

No the monster do aggro and attack you but they are incredible slow and "exaggerated" in every sense, meaning they first go "huh?" then they slowly look a you, then they walk to you and swing.

From developer interviews this was on purpose to promote the "casual" and the "pvpers", which seemly see pve as a chore to get done before hacking and slashing each other.

this is not uncommon in the past, and can easily be fixed. Monster sprints, dash CCs, "skills" "enrages" are all old school techniques that were developed and given to monsters to tell players they shouldn't treat monsters as toys.

We'll have to see how it goes, as simply increasing animation of monsters by 2x would give them "smarter AI" simply because you actually see something beyond a single swing.

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Posted

Why would we listen to a carebear? hahaha

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Posted

Why would we listen to a carebear? hahaha

Why would we listen to a hardcoreeliteblackdeathgodwolf? Haha.

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Posted

The monsters are hard to fight if you don't dodge and take whole dmg without blocking ... But there is a problem when monsters are folowing . They have a delay like 1 second , they go straight to you , if you move left or right they still go the initial path, only after 1 second they will change direction .

Making them changing direction every 0.1 or 0.3 seconds will make everything more fluid . As a high ap player and no dp you can farm everywhere you want (except if there are ranger enemy) and you won't die cause monsters will follow you with 1 second delay .

 

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