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Why alienate the people with actual buying power?

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Posted (edited)

If the lazypeon video carries any message at all, it is this: you can't build a game where the only way to stay competitive is constant no-lifing and expect real people to play it.

I feel that amid the endless stream of p2w topics this point is completely overlooked. He mentions falling behind as a result of taking a few days off as the immediate reason for quitting. You can't be in the game constantly as you need to make a living somehow. This is true of most adults who earn a salary, that is to say, the people with the most buying power.

When you realize no-lifing is the only way, you are effectively forced to quit.

I realize there will be fanboys here, who will say I am wrong. But it doesn't change the fact that this is happening. Or you seriously think lazypeon is alone.

Edited by Coeprandua
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Posted (edited)

Lazypeon is high af, he has +15 liverto and + 15 agerian......and you are telling me he fell behind?

I like his usual videos but this just feel like he's acting like a spoiled brat 

I should probably uninstall with my +15 yuria and +9/10 heve-grunill 

Edited by Hada
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It's called WvW or Wallet vs Wallet...

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If the lazypeon video carries any message at all, it is this: you can't build a game where the only way to stay competitive is constant no-lifing and expect real people to play it.

I feel that amid the endless p2w topic this point is completely overlooked. He mentions falling behind as a result of taking a few days off as the immediate reason for quitting. You can't be in the game constantly as you need to make a living somehow. This is true of most adults who earn a salary, that is to say, the people with the most buying power.

When you realize no-lifing is the only way, you are effectively forced to quit.

I realize there will be fanboys here, who will say I am wrong. But it doesn't change the fact that this is happening. Or you seriously think lazypeon is alone.

I am afraid to say you are actually right in a way however if they ever made it p2w I am afraid it would just kill the game as there are many people that can dump 1,000.00's into a cash shop and not blink I am one of those people which will just create an even bigger gap then we have now either way we will always have a gap between people no matter what the game is and there really is no way around it at all.

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Lazypeon is high af, he has +15 liverto and + 15 agerian......and you are telling me he fell behind?

I like his usual videos but this just feel like he's acting like a spoiled brat 

I don't know if the falling behind part is true or perceived. But the way people see things will determine their actions. And what people see is an endless progression where you can sink weeks into a new level or to grind higher tiers of jewellery. There is just so much you can do to get higher stats that it literally adds up to an endless grind.

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The simple solution is equalized battlegrounds and arenas. Complete with elo and leaderboards.

Have said arenas reward people with black stones and when they come out, black seals.

Let gear and levels stay hardcore and apply to owpvp and sieges.

Then everyone can "compete", PvPers can PvP without no lifing, the hardcore no lifers can enjoy their advantage in other stuff.

My real opinion though is that eventually everyone will be 57-59 with a few 60s here or there, tons of people with TRI+ accessories etc. The problem is that the game is new but a super long term grind and that the most hardcore people are far ahead. Play for the long game. In a year the casual players will be 58-59 if not 60 and all the no lifers will be stuck at 60 still.

The exp wall gets too high. The only really dumb mechanic is the ogre ring. +35 AP if you have the luck of a God, or 6-10 AP if you don't.

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The Lazypeon video carries no message at all. Solved ._./

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If the lazypeon video carries any message at all, it is this: you can't build a game where the only way to stay competitive is constant no-lifing and expect real people to play it.

I feel that amid the endless stream of p2w topics this point is completely overlooked. He mentions falling behind as a result of taking a few days off as the immediate reason for quitting. You can't be in the game constantly as you need to make a living somehow. This is true of most adults who earn a salary, that is to say, the people with the most buying power.

When you realize no-lifing is the only way, you are effectively forced to quit.

I realize there will be fanboys here, who will say I am wrong. But it doesn't change the fact that this is happening. Or you seriously think lazypeon is alone.

Fanboys vs. Sheep. Fight!

What are you competing for?

Does the game take away your account access if you don't hit some minimum playing time or something? Where do I find this number, I need to make sure I hit the mark so it doesn't happen.

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I don't know if the falling behind part is true or perceived. But the way people see things will determine their actions. And what people see is an endless progression where you can sink weeks into a new level or to grind higher tiers of jewellery. There is just so much you can do to get higher stats that it literally adds up to an endless grind.

welcome to MMOs

Also let me clarify,  in korea, after 2 yyears, the highest level player is 62.

 

Or are are you suggesting bdo turns into a p2w fest like archeage?

BUT seriously all mmos  are like this, there will always be better geared players than you

 

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Fanboys vs. Sheep. Fight!

What are you competing for?

Does the game take away your account access if you don't hit some minimum playing time or something? Where do I find this number, I need to make sure I hit the mark so it doesn't happen.

Competing to not get endlessly farmed when sieges hit... I guess.

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The simple solution is equalized battlegrounds and arenas. Complete with elo and leaderboards.

Have said arenas reward people with black stones and when they come out, black seals.

Let gear and levels stay hardcore and apply to owpvp and sieges.

Then everyone can "compete", PvPers can PvP without no lifing, the hardcore no lifers can enjoy their advantage in other stuff.

My real opinion though is that eventually everyone will be 57-59 with a few 60s here or there, tons of people with TRI+ accessories etc. The problem is that the game is new but a super long term grind and that the most hardcore people are far ahead. Play for the long game. In a year the casual players will be 58-59 if not 60 and all the no lifers will be stuck at 60 still.

The exp wall gets too high. The only really dumb mechanic is the ogre ring. +35 AP if you have the luck of a God, or 6-10 AP if you don't.

like these people want balance.. the solution is simple but they'd rather lose a good chunk of players to keep the game's "purity" in the same way it's bleeding PvE players due to owpvp. Overwatch comes out on the 24th and many more will jump ship for that.

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I think the problem with this MMO is it's all RNG based. Like others I can play casually and eventually catch up to the hardcore players because there is a top wall of gear and things like that. With BDO no lifers can really build that gap like with ogre rings duo/tri mark of shadows etc. The difference feels significant.

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Posted (edited)

Lazypeon is high af, he has +15 liverto and + 15 agerian......and you are telling me he fell behind?

I like his usual videos but this just feel like he's acting like a spoiled brat 

I should probably uninstall with my +15 yuria and +9/10 heve-grunill 

Actually, you probably should. Unless you got a lot of silver you invested in other stuff than gear, if you're earning at this rate, you'll always be too far behind on gear to be anything else than a wet insignificance noodle in pvp.

 

Game is way too gear dependent and most people who are in it for the eventual pvp will leave over it, especially casuals or semi-hardcores who have both jobs and other obligations like maybe a family (those playing 5-6 hours a day). Amusingly enough also not an insignificant amount of people who play the game almost every waking hour will quit as well because without the RNGods they will be stuck without best in slot gear.

Professions are bad to spend any significant effort on compared to grinding and channel-hopping for field bosses (except maybe fishing. people say it's OK for silver if you know what you're doing and paid2inventory), and one will stay behind when doing them unless it's a semi-afk activity one does while doing other things like cooking / house chores and one isn't doing anything complex with it, or one is already around top 50 in the entire server (not the rankings of people online in the channel but on the server).

There is only one thing in this game that could give it any kind of longevity, and that is good pvp systems and skill>gear/levels combat mechanics and stat progression, but that's thrown out the window because originally in KR the huge gear gap especially was used as an incentive for whales to p2w, but those spam-them-infinitely-to-get-as-much-silver-as-you-want p2w mechanisms aren't in EU/NA, there are only indirect P2W mechanisms that boost the rewards for your efforts considerably to a certain degree, but you still need to put in effort and you still need to luck out on things.

So not even the whales are going to stay, as unlike in KR, they have no mechanism to keep up and be anything but a puny wet insignificance noodle in pvp.

If you're high enough and got time enough to enjoy the ride until something else good comes out, sure, do it, but unless a miracle happens and the people in charge take to their senses if they want this game to be a long term money making machine instead of a short term hypermilkage, things will go badly. Looking at how their parent company did it in Korea, optimism is an unrealistic view. There is probably no light at the end of the tunnel.

Some things have been said about possibly having alternate mechanisms to RNG for accessories, and alternate ways of getting best in slot gear than drops or the auction house. The price of safe enchanting up to +15 was also lowered, which was good. If this is delivered on things would be less bad, but the extreme degree to which stats scale in the game would still be there and anyone who doesn't gameislife it will fall behind unless they stop releasing new gear or enchant levels for a long time, which isn't really an option because then gameislifers will probably leave and the competitive scene and community will suffer, as well as the game's reputation.

Even having RNG mechanics in combat to begin with is ridiculous. CC resistance should reduce the time of the CC, not randomly make it work or not (not sure how grapple would be handled, it's a special case). Evasion & Accuracy stats are essentially untouchability mechanics that create situations where some players are godmode compared to others because they cannot be touched.

All in all, it only makes sense from a business perspective as a whale-milking model and that whale-milking model only works with the kind of cash shop KR has.

From a pvp player's perspective it only makes the game worse.

So, yeah, in KR the game is a joke if you want to pvp and you're not gameislife mode or a massive spending whale. In EU/NA if you want to pvp, it's a joke unless you're gameislife mode (even then it might still be a joke if you're unlucky until/unless they change stuff).

 

OP is looking suspiciously like an aspiring p2w whale, but technically he is right.

Edited by Clearing
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welcome to MMOs

Also let me clarify,  in korea, after 2 yyears, the highest level player is 62.

 

Or are are you suggesting bdo turns into a p2w fest like archeage?

BUT seriously all mmos  are like this, there will always be better geared players than you

 

Gw2?

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nolifing doesn;'t even give you the gear to be competitive in this game

 

corrupted rng/broken account luck and LUCK in general does

 

if you dont think that then you're obviously not playing this game 

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If the lazypeon video carries any message at all, it is this: you can't build a game where the only way to stay competitive is constant no-lifing and expect real people to play it.

I feel that amid the endless stream of p2w topics this point is completely overlooked. He mentions falling behind as a result of taking a few days off as the immediate reason for quitting. You can't be in the game constantly as you need to make a living somehow. This is true of most adults who earn a salary, that is to say, the people with the most buying power.

When you realize no-lifing is the only way, you are effectively forced to quit.

I realize there will be fanboys here, who will say I am wrong. But it doesn't change the fact that this is happening. Or you seriously think lazypeon is alone.

uh no. Just no. I don't have as much time as some people to play the game but falling behind gear wise when you hit the top doesn't happen with the way the game's gear works. RNG accessories will most likely just prevent you from ever reaching the height of those who have the god rays of luck.

Gw2?

This is correct you actually will always be able to catch up in gear in GW2 which is nice.

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Gw2?

ah yes gw2, forgot about it

Alright 99.99% mmos

 wish more games would learn from it 

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Well, on the bright side, the no-ifiest of no-lifers in korea is only lvl 62.

That means that in a year from now, the highest level player will be level 60. So, being able to be in the level 55-60 range after a year isn't too tough to do.

If matching levels is not tough, then all that is left is gear.

Gear needs serious rebalancing, additional types of armor and weapons, different types of stat bonuses, not just more AP/DP.

Ditch +16-20 altogether.

You want end game loot? Have world bosses drop costumes and skins for your weapons and armor. People would grind forever for a better looking armor or weapon than the flea market designs that the normal armor skin looks like. Hell, you can even make them RNG so they wouldn't change the appearance unless you got enough failstacks or something.

Just stop the upward motion of player AP/DP stats.

 

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Actually, you probably should. Unless you got a lot of silver you invested in other stuff than gear, if you're earning at this rate, you'll always be too far behind on gear to be anything else than a wet insignificance noodle in pvp.

 

Game is way too gear dependent and most people who are in it for the eventual pvp will leave over it, especially casuals or semi-hardcores who have both jobs and other obligations like maybe a family (those playing 5-6 hours a day). Amusingly enough also not an insignificant amount of people who play the game almost every waking hour will quit as well because without the RNGods they will be stuck without best in slot gear.

Professions are bad to spend any significant effort on compared to grinding and channel-hopping for field bosses (except maybe fishing. people say it's OK for silver if you know what you're doing and paid2inventory), and one will stay behind when doing them unless it's a semi-afk activity one does while doing other things like cooking / house chores and one isn't doing anything complex with it, or one is already around top 50 in the entire server (not the rankings of people online in the channel but on the server).

There is only one thing in this game that could give it any kind of longevity is good pvp systems and skill>gear/levels combat mechanics and stat progression, but that's thrown out the window because originally in KR the huge gear gap especially was used as an incentive for whales to p2w, but those spam-them-infinitely-to-get-as-much-silver-as-you-want p2w mechanisms aren't in EU/NA, there are only indirect P2W mechanisms that boost the rewards for your efforts considerably to a certain degree, but you still need to put in effort and you still need to luck out on things.

So not even the whales are going to stay, as unlike in KR, they have no mechanism to keep up and be anything but a puny wet insignificance noodle in pvp.

If you're high enough and got time enough to enjoy the ride until something else good comes out, sure, do it, but unless a miracle happens and the people in charge take to their senses if they want this game to be a long term money making machine instead of a short term hypermilkage. Looking at how their parent company did it in Korea, optimism is an unrealistic view. There is probably no light at the end of the tunnel.

Some things have been said about possibly having alternate mechanisms to RNG for accessories, and alternate ways of getting best in slot gear than drops or the auction house. The price of safe enchanting up to +15 was also lowered, which was good. If this is delivered on things would be less bad, but the extreme degree to which stats scale in the game would still be there and anyone who doesn't gameislife it will fall behind unless they stop releasing new gear or enchant levels for a long time, which isn't really an option because then gameislifers will probably leave and the competitive scene and community will suffer, as well as the game's reputation.

Even having RNG mechanics in combat to begin with is ridiculous. CC resistance should reduce the time of the CC, not randomly make it work or not (not sure how grapple would be handled, it's a special case). Evasion & Accuracy stats are essentially untouchability mechanics that create situations where some players are godmode compared to others because they cannot be touched.

All in all, it only makes sense from a business perspective as a whale-milking model and that whale-milking model only works with the kind of cash shop KR has.

From a pvp player's perspective it only makes the game worse.

So, yeah, in KR the game is a joke if you want to pvp and you're not gameislife mode or a massive spending whale. In EU/NA if you want to pvp, it's a joke unless you're gameislife mode (even then it might still be a joke if you're unlucky until/unless they change stuff).

 

OP is looking suspiciously like an aspiring p2w whale, but technically he is right.

TLDR: solution to whatever crap you spewed. Join a Zerg guild problem solved. Pvp away at lvl 51 in +10 gear and enjoy it. 

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Actually DAUM KR already addressed this issue. Since GEAR>Level>>>Skill in BDO and no-lifers capitalizing on bosses with horrible schedules that overlap people's sleep/work time; now BDO KR sells RNG boxes with boss gear inside. 

But do not mistake that for P2W, it is just a minor convenience item, since you could still get those boss gear from putting time in the game.

We just need to wait for that 'convenience item' to reach NA/EU.

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Posted (edited)

TLDR: solution to whatever crap you spewed. Join a Zerg guild problem solved. Pvp away at lvl 51 in +10 gear and enjoy it. 

You didn't read or understand the post well, and you don't understand the severity of how accuracy/evasion mechanics in this game work. Not to mention how well AP scales.

Unless severely suffering from a case of bad, a lvl 55 in full +15 with PRI rare accessories has a big chance of soloing 10 lvl 51s in +10 gear. No joke. Low geared zerging doesn't work in this game.

Try out Crimson Battlefield if you want to see it. If you encounter someone with signficantly worse gear than you, they just melt at your first touch, and if they  manage to jump and try to kill you, 5 of them can be hitting you and CC'ing you (if lucky enough to hit) and it won't matter even if you're a squishy class, you'll survive, do some mobility stuff, then burst down 4 of them and chase down the last one.

The extremity of it won't really be fully felt until you've been at both sides of the issue, that is, you've been lower geared and been effectively useless, and then you get higher geared and kill lower geared people.

Edited by Clearing
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Actually DAUM KR already addressed this issue. Since GEAR>Level>>>Skill in BDO and no-lifers capitalizing on bosses with horrible schedules that overlap people's sleep/work time; now BDO KR sells RNG boxes with boss gear inside. 

But do not mistake that for P2W, it is just a minor convenience item, since you could still get those boss gear from putting time in the game.

We just need to wait for that 'convenience item' to reach NA/EU.

If they attempted that in NA/EU someone start a class action lawsuit against Daum. Every penny players spent on the game would then be returned to the players who were blatantly lied to about the company's intent and product policy. KR/RU are a F2P revenue model, so P2W is expected there. Here in NA/EU it would be a crime.

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If they attempted that in NA/EU someone start a class action lawsuit against Daum. Every penny players spent on the game would then be returned to the players who were blatantly lied to about the company's intent and product policy. KR/RU are a F2P revenue model, so P2W is expected there. Here in NA/EU it would be a crime.

I would actually bet what he described is what Daum has in store for those who start playing the game too late. Only they will go f2p first.

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You guys have no life ... You look at a video and comment .... Peon has his life you have your's . 

Play the game or gtfo . Problem solved .

 

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I couldnt give two shits for pvtwiggles or lazy's opinion of the game. I could even give less about measuring up to everyones might epeen of glory. I login and play how i want to and enjoy the game. I dont need to play the game so long my eyes bleed and i want to rage thrust my forehead through a window due to some RNG  just because those two utube clowns bought 1000 dollar bottle of wine and chugged it doesnt mean its shit wine

just a game. Go outside some. Fart some. Think deep thoughts

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