• Announcements

    • IMPORTANT - REACH US IN THE NEW FORUM   05/04/2017

      Ladies and gentlemen ATTENTION please:
      It's time to move into a new house!
        As previously announced, from now on IT WON'T BE POSSIBLE TO CREATE THREADS OR REPLY in the old forums. From now on the old forums will be readable only. If you need to move/copy/migrate any post/material from here, feel free to contact the staff in the new home. We’ll be waiting for you in the NEW Forums!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php

      *New features and amazing tools are waiting for you, even more is yet to come in the future.. just like world exploration in BDO leads to new possibilities.
      So don't be afraid about changes, click the link above and follow us!
      Enjoy and see you on the other side!  
    • WICHTIG: Das Forum ist umgezogen!   05/04/2017

      Damen und Herren, wir bitten um Eure Aufmerksamkeit, es ist an der Zeit umzuziehen!
        Wie wir bereits angekündigt hatten, ist es ab sofort nicht mehr möglich, neue Diskussionen in diesem Forum zu starten. Um Euch Zeit zu geben, laufende Diskussionen abzuschließen, könnt Ihr noch für zwei Wochen in offenen Diskussionen antworten. Danach geht dieses Forum hier in den Ruhestand und das NEUE FORUM übernimmt vollständig.
      Das Forum hier bleibt allerdings erhalten und lesbar.   Neue und verbesserte Funktionen warten auf Euch im neuen Forum und wir arbeiten bereits an weiteren Erweiterungen.
      Wir sehen uns auf der anderen Seite!

      https://community.blackdesertonline.com/index.php Update:
      Wie angekündigt könen ab sofort in diesem Forum auch keine neuen Beiträge mehr veröffentlicht werden.
    • IMPORTANT: Le nouveau forum   05/04/2017

      Aventurières, aventuriers, votre attention s'il vous plaît, il est grand temps de déménager!
      Comme nous vous l'avons déjà annoncé précédemment, il n'est désormais plus possible de créer de nouveau sujet ni de répondre aux anciens sur ce bon vieux forum.
      Venez visiter le nouveau forum!
      https://community.blackdesertonline.com
      De nouvelles fonctionnalités ainsi que de nouveaux outils vous attendent dès à présent et d'autres arriveront prochainement! N'ayez pas peur du changement et rejoignez-nous! Amusez-vous bien et a bientôt dans notre nouveau chez nous

SHOULD COSTUMES BE SOLD ON AH FOR SILVER


578 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

 

You're proving my point, you know. If the average player can't catch up to a nolifer then it doesn't matter if a whale catches up. Either way the average player (which is like 90% of the playerbase) wont ever catch up. So if they're going to permanently be weaker than those at the top, it really does not matter how those people go to the top now does it?

Straight up allowing money to effect gameplay is a poor design in games and will be flat out abused. It has a horrid stigma around for triple A games and can ill the game before it gets very far in the west. That is why it shouldn't be done.

There are better ways to allow people who don't want to spend money to have access to the costumes, than letting people basically be able to buy silver by selling costumes.

Edited by Noth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Straight up allowing money to effect gameplay is a poor design in games and will be flat out abused. It has a horrid stigma around for triple A games and can ill the game before it gets very far in the west. That is why it shouldn't be done.

There are better ways to allow people who don't want to spend money to have access to the costumes, than letting people basically be able to buy silver by selling costumes.

And yet there has never been an MMO that suffered because it allowed cash shop items to be sold. I somehow doubt BDO will be the first.

As for the 'better ways', suggest one. What is a way that lets people access cash shop items and still gives the devs money without requiring those people to actually pay?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

sir, there are alot of ways to distribute silver, first one would be through the marketplace. Seller sets up an item, goldseller pays for it. Although the tax will be hurting.

second would be guildstorage, making a guild to distribute the silver, no idea if it is possible but since it can be used maybe. 

 

No idea if here are any other methods yet to be known

I don't get how the f is this goldselling. the guy needs to put items wich are price locked by regulated auction house
OHH I KNOW YOU HAVEN'T PLAYED BDO YET AND YOU TROW SHIT AROUND LIKE YOU KNOW IT ALL.

get the f out of here please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

And yet there has never been an MMO that suffered because it allowed cash shop items to be sold. I somehow doubt BDO will be the first.

As for the 'better ways', suggest one. What is a way that lets people access cash shop items and still gives the devs money without requiring those people to actually pay?

Many suffer in the west from p2w which is essentially what this is. The reason why games like GW2 do not suffer is because the gap in power between top tier and the next is only about 5% and the pvp is normalized. This game the gear gap is much much larger and pvp is not normalized. The game designs are drastically different meaning doing teh same thing with the cash shop will have drastically different effects.

I did give suggestions 2 in fact, in my very first post in this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

And yet there has never been an MMO that suffered because it allowed cash shop items to be sold. I somehow doubt BDO will be the first.

As for the 'better ways', suggest one. What is a way that lets people access cash shop items and still gives the devs money without requiring those people to actually pay?

I don't get why you haven't quit yet bro.
the cash-shop will be bound.
why are you even still having this discussion.
you've been at it long enough .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Most people don't quit a game because it has the ability to trade cash shop items in game. 90% of players don't care because it doesn't directly affect them. If they can't see this supposed 'unfairness' they just do not care. That's the way of the average MMO player. Only the hardcore 'competitive' players care enough to -----, let alone quit. Your average player just wants to run around and have fun and doesn't care how someone got ahead of them because they already know there will be people stronger than them, so it doesn't matter.

As I've said many times there has never been even one MMO that was negatively impacted by allowing cosmetic cash shop items to be sold. Not even one. And that's because it's a non-intrusive system that doesn't affect the gameplay of anyone.

Also you hit the nail on the head there. If a game FEELS unfair. But that's the thing, the game doesn't feel unfair. It feels perfectly fair. You don't notice any unfairness while playing. You can't tell the people who paid apart from those who didn't. You can't notice any difference in your grinding or questing. Nothing changes. If nothing changes you don't feel it's unfair. If you don't feel it's unfair you simply don't care.

Many of the most popular and active MMOs in NA, right now, employ this very system. So don't sit there and tell me it drives people away because that is factually false. It isn't selling cash shop items that hurts the game, it's what items are being sold. If it's purely cosmetic then it doesn't hurt anything, period.

And those people are a tiny minority of the playerbase. Big deal. The odds of even running into one of those people are so extraordinarily high you could run around PVPing for six months and never see even one of them.

And even if they do, so what? There's a cap. They rush their way to the ceiling and then what? They're stuck there as everyone else catches up. It simply isn't a big deal in this type of game.

cosmetic items are not P2W, until they can be sold on the open market that is. Accelerated currency generation at those levels can and had caused many MMO's to either fail outright, or just barely sc----- by and ALWAYS earns them a bad rep. Look at Tera and Archeage, both are still in business (sort of) but their reputation has forever been smeared and people flock to unreleased games before even considering those P2W jokes.

Check out my thread about BDO predictions, I linked a number of studies that conclusively link P2W to a game's total failure in the west.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Many suffer in the west from p2w which is essentially what this is. The reason why games like GW2 do not suffer is because the gap in power between top tier and the next is only about 5% and the pvp is normalized. This game the gear gap is much much larger and pvp is not normalized. The game designs are drastically different meaning doing teh same thing with the cash shop will have drastically different effects.

I did give suggestions 2 in fact, in my very first post in this thread.

You do know there's plenty of non-normalized PVP MMOs that allow cash shop items to be sold with absolutely no ill affects, right? And yes, I'm talking about ones in the west.

However you did explain the issue here. The problem isn't selling cash shop items, this has been factually PROVEN to not cause any harm. No, the problem is the broken power scaling on gear. As you pointed out, other MMOs with this system have balanced gear so even if you aren't directly even with your opponent you can still fight and win. In BDO skill plays pretty much no part in combat, it's almost entirely on your gear. That is the problem. The gear isn't balanced for enchant levels 16-20. If it was it wouldn't matter if cash shop items are sold, just as it doesn't matter that they're sold in a host of other MMOs.

As for your suggestions, restate them and/or show me to your post. I'm not digging through 11 pages to find it after all.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

You do know there's plenty of non-normalized PVP MMOs that allow cash shop items to be sold with absolutely no ill affects, right? And yes, I'm talking about ones in the west.

However you did explain the issue here. The problem isn't selling cash shop items, this has been factually PROVEN to not cause any harm. No, the problem is the broken power scaling on gear. As you pointed out, other MMOs with this system have balanced gear so even if you aren't directly even with your opponent you can still fight and win. In BDO skill plays pretty much no part in combat, it's almost entirely on your gear. That is the problem. The gear isn't balanced for enchant levels 16-20. If it was it wouldn't matter if cash shop items are sold, just as it doesn't matter that they're sold in a host of other MMOs.

As for your suggestions, restate them and/or show me to your post. I'm not digging through 11 pages to find it after all.

Name them. Only two that I know of that make any mark on the radar are EvE and GW2, one extremely niche and the other very equalized

The chances of us getting a rebalance of gear gap is slim to none due to having to rebalance the majority of the game.

A silver -> pearl exchange (no pearl to silver though), occasionally putting them in the mileage store for people. Two quick and simple ways to allow people to get cash store stuff without spending money.

 

Edited by Noth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

And yet there has never been an MMO that suffered because it allowed cash shop items to be sold. I somehow doubt BDO will be the first.

Can't argue with solid facts guys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Name them. Only two that I know of that make any mark on the radar are EvE and GW2, one extremely niche and the other very equalized

A silver -> pearl exchange (no pearl to silver though), occasionally putting them in the mileage store for people. Two quick and simple ways to allow people to get cash store stuff without spending money.

Tera is on that list as well. Archeage, since it's brought up a lot, is also on that list as the selling of cash shop items didn't hurt that game. The rampant botting and P2W items in the cash shop hurt it. That's the thing, you people can't name any MMOs that were directly hurt by selling cosmetics. Whereas I can name several that had this system with no problems.

As for your solutions, neither of those meet the criteria I provided. They don't make money for the devs. Since neither of those ideas make money, why would the devs bother implementing them?

cosmetic items are not P2W, until they can be sold on the open market that is. Accelerated currency generation at those levels can and had caused many MMO's to either fail outright, or just barely sc----- by and ALWAYS earns them a bad rep. Look at Tera and Archeage, both are still in business (sort of) but their reputation has forever been smeared and people flock to unreleased games before even considering those P2W jokes.

Check out my thread about BDO predictions, I linked a number of studies that conclusively link P2W to a game's total failure in the west.

Even when cosmetics are sold on the open market it is still not P2W. Not in any tangible way. The only people who call it P2W are fanatics who think any and every transfer of money to in game is automatically P2W.

Also I find it amusing that you say 'look at Tera' when Tera's one of the most popular and successful F2P MMOs in the west at this time. As for archeage, that's false equivalence since it didn't get hurt by selling cosmetic cash shop items. It got hurt by bots grabbing and selling land (which made more gold than any cash shop items) and the devs adding P2W items to the cash shop. The mere selling of cash shop items did nothing to hurt archeage.

So out of your two examples, one of them is exceptionally popular and profitable and the other was brought down by things unrelated to selling cash shop items. The proof is there, the proof that this system doesn't hurt games. You people just refuse to accept that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Name them. Only two that I know of that make any mark on the radar are EvE and GW2, one extremely niche and the other very equalized

A silver -> pearl exchange (no pearl to silver though), occasionally putting them in the mileage store for people. Two quick and simple ways to allow people to get cash store stuff without spending money.

I'd prefer if anything stat or gameplay aletering be moved from the cash to the mileage shop. All the rest say in cash shop.

However, actual items should be added that can be earned by actually playing the game. Nothing in the game so far proclaims, I'm elite in BDO, all there are are items that say, I get paid minimum wage or maybe more.

Tera is on that list as well. Archeage, since it's brought up a lot, is also on that list as the selling of cash shop items didn't hurt that game. The rampant botting and P2W items in the cash shop hurt it. That's the thing, you people can't name any MMOs that were directly hurt by selling cosmetics. Whereas I can name several that had this system with no problems.

As for your solutions, neither of those meet the criteria I provided. They don't make money for the devs. Since neither of those ideas make money, why would the devs bother implementing them?

Even when cosmetics are sold on the open market it is still not P2W. Not in any tangible way. The only people who call it P2W are fanatics who think any and every transfer of money to in game is automatically P2W.

Also I find it amusing that you say 'look at Tera' when Tera's one of the most popular and successful F2P MMOs in the west at this time. As for archeage, that's false equivalence since it didn't get hurt by selling cosmetic cash shop items. It got hurt by bots grabbing and selling land (which made more gold than any cash shop items) and the devs adding P2W items to the cash shop. The mere selling of cash shop items did nothing to hurt archeage.

So out of your two examples, one of them is exceptionally popular and profitable and the other was brought down by things unrelated to selling cash shop items. The proof is there, the proof that this system doesn't hurt games. You people just refuse to accept that.

So this "successful" Tera?

NCsoft sues Bluehole Studio & En Masse Entertainment, Inc.

 
January 27, 2012 11:31 AM MST

On the morning of January 26th, 2012, Korean Massively Multiplayer Online (MMO) conglomorate "NCsoft," pressed charges against up-and-coming independant Korean MMO developer "Bluehole" and its North American publisher En Masse Entertainment, Inc. The charges brought up included over 83 separate copyright infringement, misappropriation of trade secrets and confidential information, unjust enrichment, and unfair competition claims. In layman's terms, NCsoft believes that Bluehole stole data that belonged to NCsoft's "Lineage 3" project, to develop their new title, "TERA."

"TERA," an acronym for "The Exiled Realm of Arborea," was released in South Korea exactly a year and a day ago. The title saw relative success, but fell short of competing with NCsoft's Korean hit, "Aion." It is a much anticipated title in North America and Europe, due to release on May 1st and May 3rd of 2012 respectively. The very week the local publisher "En Masse" disclosed the release dates, NCsoft went in for the kill.

It's said that Bluehole CEO Gang-Seok Kim instigated a mass exodus of key developers behind the development of Lineage 3, forming his studio shortly thereafter. Much of the team was found to be in violation of former agreements with their previous employer, in possession of stolen data stored on personal storage devices. NCsoft notified Korean law enforcement officials of suspected theft in March of 2007, and shortly after, a police investigation of Bluehole began. The company was found with proprietary data--and several developers, including Head Producer for Tera, Yong-Hyun Park, were indicted for trade secret misappropriation, unfair competition, and breach of trust. They were fined in a separate civil case for about $2 Million in damages.

Bluehole, however, continued development of TERA and was able to release the title in Korea with relative ease. What NCsoft seeks to do with this new suit, is block the title from expanding outside of Korea and making extra, allegedly "unjust" income off of what was originally intellectual property belonging to their company.

EDITOR'S OPINION:

NCsoft hasn't always had a great reputation in the courtrooms, but the suit in and of itself seems to hold some merit. The full PDF civil action documents can be found here. In short, a few of the glaringly identical features between TERA and what was to be Lineage 3, are as follows: Seven playable races of nearly identical shape, size, and characteristics (including two races that have not appeared in any other MMO); nearly identical continents and world; the same capital cities, the same giant monsters for players to fight, a unique combat system that does not rely on auto-targetting, a player-controlled political system, specific customizations to the "Unreal" graphics engine, and specific software.

It's no coincidence that much of the Bluehole development team were a part of the Lineage 3 team before they decided to walk. The founder of TERA's company, in fact, was the project lead for Lineage 3.

The short of all this legal mumbojumbo is this: The founders and staff of Bluehole left NCsoft with confidential information that they had legally agreed never to disclose or misappropriate. Bluehole, even while being examined by Korean authorities, continued with the development of TERA and already had plans in the works for a Western release. Two of the big boasting points for TERA--the political system, and active combat system--were innovations that belonged to NCsoft's Lineage 3. TERA is already out and, having saved quite a bit of time and money through blatant theft, they get the credit and the player base for these new innovative impliments to the MMO genre.

It might not seem like a big deal to the rest of the world, but anyone who's ever played an MMO knows that every MMO title competes with every other MMO title. Subscribers are the type who will claim that one game is a rip off of another game. To the consumers, with Lineage 3 behind TERA, it will look like L3 stole from TERA, when in fact, it was the other way around.

As it stands, NCsoft scrapped millions of dollars worth of development to build L3 back from the bottom up. That's a lot of wasted time and money.

In Korea, Bluehole is still being investigated by authorities and may very well be shut down--but it's impossible to say at this point. The case here in the U.S., is an attempt to block the game--something that could cripple TERA. It's a case worth watching--that's for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Tera is on that list as well. Archeage, since it's brought up a lot, is also on that list as the selling of cash shop items didn't hurt that game. The rampant botting and P2W items in the cash shop hurt it. That's the thing, you people can't name any MMOs that were directly hurt by selling cosmetics. Whereas I can name several that had this system with no problems.

As for your solutions, neither of those meet the criteria I provided. They don't make money for the devs. Since neither of those ideas make money, why would the devs bother implementing them?

 

Both AA and TERA have horrid stigmas around them. While TERA is somewhat hanging on, it is questionable how large the playerbase is actually. Due to devs constantly using registered accounts for their numbers which is never ever accurate. AA has the same issue of using only registered players. These are simply marketing numbers and don't display how the game is actually doing. AA itself is thought of as p2w which is one of the biggest things people do not want for this game.

No they don't directly make devs money. Not everything will directly make money. Many things are done to make customers happy in order to encourage them to spend money. That is why good companies do things such as empower their customer support to give free stuff to people to get them to stay. For example. Comcast will often give free upgrades and free channels to people that may leave for another provider. While this is a short term loss, it makes the customer happy and more likely to stay even when the free stuff is up, thus bringing in more money. Now if we take that concept to my ideas, both act as ways to get the customer to taste the service provided and thus more likely to spend money as they now have a taste. It takes a proper balancing and timing, but it can work to allow them to make more in the long term in exchange for a small loss in the short term.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I skimmed that but what do you think that proves? Them being sued over supposed copywrite infringement doesn't somehow mean the game isn't successful. It's also from 2012, y'know, when it first launched.

It's now 2016 and Tera's one of the most active MMOs in the west and it has a cash shop that allows you to sell items on the AH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I skimmed that but what do you think that proves? Them being sued over supposed copywrite infringement doesn't somehow mean the game isn't successful. It's also from 2012, y'know, when it first launched.

It's now 2016 and Tera's one of the most active MMOs in the west and it has a cash shop that allows you to sell items on the AH.

It's so active that Tera players are cruising through the forums of an as of yet unreleased game....

http://mmos.com/editorials/most-profitable-mmos-mmorpgs

http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/11/perfect-ten-the-top-10-healthiest-live-mmos/

you wont find tera on those lists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Both AA and TERA have horrid stigmas around them. While TERA is somewhat hanging on, it is questionable how large the playerbase is actually. Due to devs constantly using registered accounts for their numbers which is never ever accurate. AA has the same issue of using only registered players. These are simply marketing numbers and don't display how the game is actually doing. AA itself is thought of as p2w which is one of the biggest things people do not want for this game.

No they don't directly make devs money. Not everything will directly make money. Many things are done to make customers happy in order to encourage them to spend money. That is why good companies do things such as empower their customer support to give free stuff to people to get them to stay. For example. Comcast will often give free upgrades and free channels to people that may leave for another provider. While this is a short term loss, it makes the customer happy and more likely to stay even when the free stuff is up, thus bringing in more money. Now if we take that concept to my ideas, both act as ways to get the customer to taste the service provided and thus more likely to spend money as they now have a taste. It takes a proper balancing and timing, but it can work to allow them to make more in the long term in exchange for a small loss in the short term.

Archeage is P2W, but not because you could sell cash shop items. It's P2W because what those cash shop items are. That's the difference. As for Tera, according to steam it peaked at 44k players today. And that's obviously just steam, plenty of people use Tera's launcher (I don't use steam for Tera when I play it). So if you think 44+ thousand players online at the same time is bad, then eh.

As I keep saying, it isn't the selling of cash shop items that's the problem. No MMO has ever been hurt by allowing cash shop items to be sold. It's WHAT is sold that is the issue. AA wasn't hurt because cash shop items could be sold, it was hurt because the cash shop had P2W items to begin with. Even if AA's cash shop items couldn't be sold on the AH it would still have been P2W.

As for your ideas, if the devs are willing to put all their cash shop items on a vendor for silver or allow people to buy pearls with silver, that's fine. I'd be fine with that. My ultimate concern is giving people who aren't blessed with hundreds of dollars to spend on a video game alternate avenues of getting full access to the game. So if the devs were willing to go this route I'd be totally fine with that. However I don't see them going that route, so I'll continue to advocate the route they are most likely to go which is allowing cash shop items to be sold.

It's so active that Tera players are cruising through the forums of an as of yet unreleased game....

http://mmos.com/editorials/most-profitable-mmos-mmorpgs

http://massivelyop.com/2015/06/11/perfect-ten-the-top-10-healthiest-live-mmos/

you wont find tera on those lists.

http://www.gamerevolution.com/features/virtual-worlds-top-10-most-popular-mmorpgs-in-2015#/slide/6

Oh look, a list that does have Tera on it. And it's link showed up directly under yours on the google search. Also one of those links has like 1 MMO and a bunch of Mobas.

Edited by Colt556

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Straight up allowing money to effect gameplay is a poor design in games and will be flat out abused. It has a horrid stigma around for triple A games and can ill the game before it gets very far in the west. That is why it shouldn't be done.

There are better ways to allow people who don't want to spend money to have access to the costumes, than letting people basically be able to buy silver by selling costumes.

How is allowing copious amounts of free time to affect gameplay any different? "Straight up allowing nolifers to affect gameplay is a poor design in games and will be flat out abused." makes just as much sense in this instance.

If they allowed the sale of cosmetic items on the AH, and you get killed by a player with, say, +18 gear, would you be able to tell if they spent copious amounts of time or money to get the gear?

 

Then this game may not be for you. Also, no you won't catch up, because if we get content as fast as KR is, there will always be more to go, meaning you just get farther and farther behind. Add in things like the gear gap, this game is simply not friendly to the occasional pick up and play, even with being able to buy progress.

I tiny population can have huge effects on the games. There was a post about this somewhere on the forums with articles on the subject. Cap? you know there is no level gap, and the enchant cap will be increased at regular intervals.

It looks like you misunderstood what I'm after, I just want to be able to be competitive, not elite, I don't mind losing to the cream of the crop, I just want the opportunity to hold my own against a large portion of the population. And yes, without the ability to sell cosmetic items I (And others like me, with limited time) WILL get farther and farther behind.

You contradict yourself though, on one hand you bemoan the effects that selling cosmetic items will have, and the next moment you're saying that even WITH the ability to sell cosmetic items, you still won't be able to "keep up".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Archeage is P2W, but not because you could sell cash shop items. It's P2W because what those cash shop items are. That's the difference. As for Tera, according to steam it peaked at 44k players today. And that's obviously just steam, plenty of people use Tera's launcher (I don't use steam for Tera when I play it). So if you think 44+ thousand players online at the same time is bad, then eh.

As I keep saying, it isn't the selling of cash shop items that's the problem. No MMO has ever been hurt by allowing cash shop items to be sold. It's WHAT is sold that is the issue. AA wasn't hurt because cash shop items could be sold, it was hurt because the cash shop had P2W items to begin with. Even if AA's cash shop items couldn't be sold on the AH it would still have been P2W.

As for your ideas, if the devs are willing to put all their cash shop items on a vendor for silver or allow people to buy pearls with silver, that's fine. I'd be fine with that. My ultimate concern is giving people who aren't blessed with hundreds of dollars to spend on a video game alternate avenues of getting full access to the game. So if the devs were willing to go this route I'd be totally fine with that. However I don't see them going that route, so I'll continue to advocate the route they are most likely to go which is allowing cash shop items to be sold.

There ought to be many more vanity items available to be EARNED by players. Vanity items should be used to show either elite competence at the game or support for the developers.They shouldn't be traded openly for standard currency. It causes massive inflation and allows gold sellers an avenue of gold transfer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

There ought to be many more vanity items available to be EARNED by players. Vanity items should be used to show either elite competence at the game or support for the developers.They shouldn't be traded openly for standard currency. It causes massive inflation and allows gold sellers an avenue of gold transfer.

How can it cause inflation? Players aren't allowed to set the price of items. Also you don't know how inflation works or what causes it if you think selling costumes will cause it. Also how are gold sellers suppose to sell gold if there's no form of trading?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Archeage is P2W, but not because you could sell cash shop items. It's P2W because what those cash shop items are. That's the difference. As for Tera, according to steam it peaked at 44k players today. And that's obviously just steam, plenty of people use Tera's launcher (I don't use steam for Tera when I play it). So if you think 44+ thousand players online at the same time is bad, then eh.

As I keep saying, it isn't the selling of cash shop items that's the problem. No MMO has ever been hurt by allowing cash shop items to be sold. It's WHAT is sold that is the issue. AA wasn't hurt because cash shop items could be sold, it was hurt because the cash shop had P2W items to begin with. Even if AA's cash shop items couldn't be sold on the AH it would still have been P2W.

As for your ideas, if the devs are willing to put all their cash shop items on a vendor for silver or allow people to buy pearls with silver, that's fine. I'd be fine with that. My ultimate concern is giving people who aren't blessed with hundreds of dollars to spend on a video game alternate avenues of getting full access to the game. So if the devs were willing to go this route I'd be totally fine with that. However I don't see them going that route, so I'll continue to advocate the route they are most likely to go which is allowing cash shop items to be sold.

http://www.gamerevolution.com/features/virtual-worlds-top-10-most-popular-mmorpgs-in-2015#/slide/6

Oh look, a list that does have Tera on it. And it's link showed up directly under yours on the google search. Also one of those links has like 1 MMO and a bunch of Mobas.

That's popularity as determined by that website's reader's polled numbers. hose arent earnings figures or hard numbers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

TBH it sounds like the biggest issue here (and the biggest issue with a lot of game play aspects) is the gap in stats / gear.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

How can it cause inflation? Players aren't allowed to set the price of items. Also you don't know how inflation works or what causes it if you think selling costumes will cause it. Also how are gold sellers suppose to sell gold if there's no form of trading?

Player A purchaes item from cash shop, places it on auction for ungodly amount. Gold seller B then immediately purchases that supremely rare item for x gold, player A transfers x dollars to gold seller, gold transferred.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Path of exile is doing pretty good with account bound cosmetics and no way to trade/sell cosmetics and the game is still growing, last year reached 100k+ concurrent players with one of the updates, proving game dont need to go to p2w to be profitable.

Archeage is P2W, but not because you could sell cash shop items. It's P2W because what those cash shop items are. That's the difference. As for Tera, according to steam it peaked at 44k players today. And that's obviously just steam, plenty of people use Tera's launcher (I don't use steam for Tera when I play it). So if you think 44+ thousand players online at the same time is bad, then eh.

Peak concurrent players yesterday: 4,142 http://steamspy.com/app/323370 , where did you come up with 44k ? pulling numbers out of your ass like the "facts" about other mmos ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Player A purchaes item from cash shop, places it on auction for ungodly amount. Gold seller B then immediately purchases that supremely rare item for x gold, player A transfers x dollars to gold seller, gold transferred.

1: That isn't possible in BDO since players can't set their own prices for AH items.

2: Why would they even do that? They pay 10 bucks for a costume, sell it for 10 mil silver, get 10mil silver. What possible reason do they have to pay 10 bucks to the devs but then additional money to the gold seller. How is that even remotely logical in your mind?

3: That still doesn't cause inflation.

Path of exile is doing pretty good with account bound cosmetics and no way to trade/sell cosmetics and the game is still growing, last year reached 100k+ concurrent players with one of the updates, proving game dont need to go to p2w to be profitable.

Peak concurrent players yesterday: 4,142 http://steamspy.com/app/323370 , where did you come up with 44k ? pulling numbers out of your ass like the "facts" about other mmos ?

Where did I get that number? Simple. An extra 4. Simple mistake anyone can make. But according to steam the only other MMO that surpassed Tera is FF14 at around 5k. And these numbers are excluding the large amounts of players that play these games without steam. Those are pretty decent numbers y'know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

1: That isn't possible in BDO since players can't set their own prices for AH items.

2: Why would they even do that? They pay 10 bucks for a costume, sell it for 10 mil silver, get 10mil silver. What possible reason do they have to pay 10 bucks to the devs but then additional money to the gold seller. How is that even remotely logical in your mind?

3: That still doesn't cause inflation.

1. A far as i know item prices fluctuate based on the transaction totals thru some ime period.

2. Cash shop items will be placed for prices far beyond anything available in the game world if allowed to be auctioned.

3. Currency is transferred.

4. Multiple gold sellers and multiple transfers.

5. Gold purchasers then spend massive currency immediately, and the entire economy undergoes price increase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Archeage is P2W, but not because you could sell cash shop items. It's P2W because what those cash shop items are. That's the difference. As for Tera, according to steam it peaked at 44k players today. And that's obviously just steam, plenty of people use Tera's launcher (I don't use steam for Tera when I play it). So if you think 44+ thousand players online at the same time is bad, then eh.

As I keep saying, it isn't the selling of cash shop items that's the problem. No MMO has ever been hurt by allowing cash shop items to be sold. It's WHAT is sold that is the issue. AA wasn't hurt because cash shop items could be sold, it was hurt because the cash shop had P2W items to begin with. Even if AA's cash shop items couldn't be sold on the AH it would still have been P2W.

As for your ideas, if the devs are willing to put all their cash shop items on a vendor for silver or allow people to buy pearls with silver, that's fine. I'd be fine with that. My ultimate concern is giving people who aren't blessed with hundreds of dollars to spend on a video game alternate avenues of getting full access to the game. So if the devs were willing to go this route I'd be totally fine with that. However I don't see them going that route, so I'll continue to advocate the route they are most likely to go which is allowing cash shop items to be sold.

http://www.gamerevolution.com/features/virtual-worlds-top-10-most-popular-mmorpgs-in-2015#/slide/6

Oh look, a list that does have Tera on it. And it's link showed up directly under yours on the google search. Also one of those links has like 1 MMO and a bunch of Mobas.

TERA peaed at 44k players today on steam? Really?

http://steamcharts.com/app/323370#48h

It's all time peak on steam was 25k. So no, I do not think it is doing that well in the west.

TERA is very popular popular in the East. That article even mentions that he cannot know how popular the game actually is and the only thing he uses that I wouldn't consider media and marketing is google trends.

One of the biggest things that people complained in AA being p2w was the labor potions, they could be sold on the AH.

It looks like you misunderstood what I'm after, I just want to be able to be competitive, not elite, I don't mind losing to the cream of the crop, I just want the opportunity to hold my own against a large portion of the population. And yes, without the ability to sell cosmetic items I (And others like me, with limited time) WILL get farther and farther behind.

You contradict yourself though, on one hand you bemoan the effects that selling cosmetic items will have, and the next moment you're saying that even WITH the ability to sell cosmetic items, you still won't be able to "keep up".

You won't be competitive only putting in 10 hours a week in this game. Even with selling cosmetic items, you will get farther behind, unless you are going to be dumping 100+ (low balling here) into the game every month in an attempt to keep up and even then you'll just fall farther and farther behind those that also no life.

How does me not liking the effects of selling cosmetic items contradict the fact that you'd still not be able to keep up? 10 hours a week will not get you far when it comes to levels at later parts of the game. Thus you will still be falling behind

Edited by Noth

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This topic is now closed to further replies.