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SHOULD COSTUMES BE SOLD ON AH FOR SILVER


578 posts in this topic

Posted

Lord, stop copy-pasting giant blocks if irrelevant shit please.

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Posted

I'm actually not pushing for them to fix the gear. I leave that to other people. I'm just saying that a lot of people have issues with the gear scaling, not selling costumes on the AH. I personally don't care if they scale the gear or not because my gameplay remains unchanged. I will never hit +20 so I'll always be at the mercy of those who do. So while I agree that it should be scaled, I don't fight for it. There's a reason you wouldn't be able to find any posts by me in threads related to it.

Also no max level doesn't mean there isn't a cap. I played a lot of Mabinogi in my day and there's no max level there, either. You just keep going. However there are caps. You do hit ceilings in your specific class, you do get to the point where your weapon is max enchanted, you do reach a point where you can do all the PVE content in the game. BDO is no different. No level cap doesn't mean there isn't a ceiling. You can only enchant your gear to +20, you can only become so powerful. So yes, there is an end to the tunnel. Think of it like a break in the tunnel if you want, sure the tunnel may continue after that but it's a breath of fresh air and you have gotten to the point where you can do do anything combat related.

Either way, this is irrelevant to the topic and I'm getting tired of getting sidetracked.

Bottom line is if they show they are willing to include alternate methods of obtaining cash shop items, I will support those methods. Until then I will support the method most likely to be included.

There are obviously a lot of people that have issue with selling costume on the AH. Seriously research it. I'd also say you push for it as your main point to has been that they just need to drop the gear gap, while basically claiming it as why the game will be DOA instead of looking for other methods and pushing them

No seriously the entire leveling process has no cap. If you are lucky you may max your gear, that is if you are lucky. Remember been over year now and few are level 60 and few have all +20 in KR. The grind is immense and the western market won't like it.

I also wouldn't call it the most likely to be included seeing as they just said no to it. It would be a PR nightmare to suddenly switch stance like that. Could it come later? Yeah, by that time I imagine you;d be moved on already as I can tell by what you expect, this game will not be what you want.

Randomized costume would be god awful. Say I'm playing a warrior, get a costume for a wizard, that's a waste.

Either way my bottom line remains the same. If the devs show they are willing to provide alternative options, great. I'll back those. But currently they aren't so I'll advocate the one method they are likely to include.

Pretty sure that it is randomized but still matches your class.

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Posted

Randomized costume would be god awful. Say I'm playing a warrior, get a costume for a wizard, that's a waste.

Either way my bottom line remains the same. If the devs show they are willing to provide alternative options, great. I'll back those. But currently they aren't so I'll advocate the one method they are likely to include.

LOL ok. I literally just told you that giving costumes for free has happened, yet you're still adamant that cash shop items on the AH is the only way. Your arguments are full of holes and you run in circles. You're clinging to an idea that has already been shot down by the devs and you're unwilling to compromise. Whether you're just here to troll or argue for the sake of it, I hope you don't get any more attention.

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Posted

 

And there's where you fail. Price them at twice the price? How? Players can't set the price on the AH. So your argument is invalid because it is physically not possible in BDO.

The price of an item is based on supply and demand. If I buyout all items of X, then regulate/heavily reduce the supply and therefore create a high demand, then the system will automatically increase the high-low pricing of the item because its rare and sought after. This works incredibly well for rarely sold items, like armors or weapons with high level enchants.

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Posted

There are obviously a lot of people that have issue with selling costume on the AH. Seriously research it. I'd also say you push for it as your main point to has been that they just need to drop the gear gap, while basically claiming it as why the game will be DOA instead of looking for other methods and pushing them

No seriously the entire leveling process has no cap. If you are lucky you may max your gear, that is if you are lucky. Remember been over year now and few are level 60 and few have all +20 in KR. The grind is immense and the western market won't like it.

I also wouldn't call it the most likely to be included seeing as they just said no to it. It would be a PR nightmare to suddenly switch stance like that. Could it come later? Yeah, by that time I imagine you;d be moved on already as I can tell by what you expect, this game will not be what you want.

Pretty sure that it is randomized but still matches your class.

My only gripe with this game is that you're forced to look like a level 1 peasant unless you pay extra money. Hence why the only thing I'm fighting for is a way around that. I don't care about any of the other issues, I only mention them because other people care. As I've said oh so many times, people being stronger than me doesn't affect my gameplay. Regardless if they got there through grind or through selling costumes the end result for me is the same. Thus I don't care. I'm far too pragmatic to care about inconsequential things like some nebulous 'fairness' that doesn't actually have any tangible effects on me.

LOL ok. I literally just told you that giving costumes for free has happened, yet you're still adamant that cash shop items on the AH is the only way. Your arguments are full of holes and you run in circles. You're clinging to an idea that has already been shot down by the devs and you're unwilling to compromise. Whether you're just here to troll or argue for the sake of it, I hope you don't get any more attention.

Unless they're passing out costumes for free on a weekly basis it's not exactly a substitute y'know. It might be a good marketing tactic but it doesn't help what I want.

The price of an item is based on supply and demand. If I buyout all items of X, then regulate/heavily reduce the supply and therefore create a high demand, then the system will automatically increase the high-low pricing of the item because its rare and sought after. This works incredibly well for rarely sold items, like armors or weapons with high level enchants.

So what's to stop some nolifer from playing the market? Plenty of people play the AH on every MMO in existence without paying any money. That seems like a problem with the way they set up the AH rather than selling costumes.

As I've said before, if the problem you propose still exists even if cash shop items can't be sold, then selling costumes isn't the problem.

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Posted

You repeating the definitions doesn't prove me wrong. Using the definitions from the dictionary YOU linked, selling costumes is not pay to win. Multiple definitions prove that including the top rated one.

Now you're just being obtuse.. Usually by replacing the word in the definition with the actual ocurrence or subject and the definition stil making sense shows it's a valid definition.

Let's try another word...

bird
bərd/
noun
noun: bird; plural noun: birds
1.
a warm-blooded egg-laying vertebrate distinguished by the possession of feathers, wings, and a beak and (typically) by being able to fly.

 

Now lets try out some words and see if those words would fit into the category of the definition. Lets use DOG and DUCK

A DOG is a warm-blooded egg-laying vertebrate distinguished by the possession of feathers, wings, and a beak and (typically) by being able to fly.

A DUCK is a warm-blooded egg-laying vertebrate distinguished by the possession of feathers, wings, and a beak and (typically) by being able to fly.

Amazing! It turns out a duck is a warm blooded flying animal and a dog isn't!

Now lets do the same thing with Pay to Win. We'll use the phrase By purchasing items with real world money then converting those items into in game currency

By purchasing items with real world money then converting those items into in game currency allows you to: buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
 
By purchasing items with real world money then converting those items into in game currency allows you to: beat players who are inherently better than you in any game.
 
By purchasing items with real world money then converting those items into in game currency allows you to: gain advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months).

It's not rocket science dude. and Urban dictionary is good enough for courts to adjudicate the law, but not good enough for you?

Urban Dictionary

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Urban Dictionary
Screenshot of Urban Dictionary's front page
Screenshot of Urban Dictionary front page as of 2011
Web addressurbandictionary.com
SloganDefine Your World
Commercial?Yes
OwnerAaron Peckham
Created byAaron Peckham
Launched1999; 17 years ago
Alexa rank
positive decrease 593 (April 2014)[1]
Current statusActive

Urban Dictionary is a crowdsourced online dictionary of slang words and phrases that was founded in 1999 as a parody of Dictionary.com by then-college freshman Aaron Peckham. At the start of 2014, the dictionary featured over seven million definitions, while 2,000 new daily entries were being added. In November 2014, the Advertise page of the website states that, on a monthly basis, Urban Dictionary averages 72 million impressions and 18 million unique readers. Anyone with either a Facebook or Gmail account can make a submission to the dictionary, and it is claimed that all entries are reviewed by volunteers. Site visitors may agree/disagree with definitions by an up/down vote system.

Application

Legal

As of 2013, Urban Dictionary has been used in many court cases to define slang terms that are not found in dictionaries.[28]

Other

In the United States, some state Departments of Motor Vehicles refers to Urban Dictionary in determining if certain license plates are appropriate or not. For example, a man in Las Vegas was allowed to keep "HOE" as his license plate after managing to convince the state, with the use of Urban Dictionary, that it meant "TAHOE", as in the vehicle made by Chevrolet, since that was already taken.[29]

IBM had programmed Watson to use Urban Dictionary. After having all the words and definitions incorporated into Watson, he began responding to researchers' questions with profanity, leading the programmers to remove it from its memory and adding an additional filter to prevent it from swearing in the future.[30]

 

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Posted

Sure, urban dictionary is fine with me. And the definitions provided by urban dictionary prove it's not pay to win.

The top definition flat out says it has to "makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying." which selling costumes factually does not do. So by YOUR OWN DEFINITION it is not pay to win. You'd think when YOU have proven me right, you would give up.

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Posted

 

So what's to stop some nolifer from playing the market? Plenty of people play the AH on every MMO in existence without paying any money. That seems like a problem with the way they set up the AH rather than selling costumes.

Nothing, but thats the point. The no lifer deserves to be in an advantageous position because he invested time and effort playing the game. A guy who simply sells costumes on the auction house didnt play the game, he simply typed in his security code and bought in-game currency using real life money. Completely unrelated to the game itself.

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Posted

Nothing, but thats the point. The no lifer deserves to be in an advantageous position because he invested time and effort playing the game. A guy who simply sells costumes on the auction house didnt play the game, he simply typed in his security code and bought in-game currency using real life money. Completely unrelated to the game itself.

So we come back to some nebulous feeling of fairness. There is no objective difference between the nolifer and the whale, but because of your subjective feelings one is acceptable and the other isn't.

As an average player my game remains the same whether the AH was bought out by a nolifer or bought out by a whale. So what logical reason should I have to care which one did it?

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Posted

There is no objective difference between the nolifer and the whale, but because of your subjective feelings one is acceptable and the other isn't.

There's no point in continuing this.

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Posted

There's no point in continuing this.

Well, what's the objective difference? They both have obscenely large sums of money. They both have much better gear than the majority of players. They both can influence the AH by buying out items. What, exactly, is the difference between the two in game? How they spend there time is an out of game difference, but in the game what's the objective difference? Is there one?

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Posted

100953-Michael-Scott-NO-gif-Imgur-C7Xd.g

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Posted

So we come back to some nebulous feeling of fairness. There is no objective difference between the nolifer and the whale, but because of your subjective feelings one is acceptable and the other isn't.

As an average player my game remains the same whether the AH was bought out by a nolifer or bought out by a whale. So what logical reason should I have to care which one did it?

One did it with blood sweat and tears the other swipe his creditcard.

Thats the major diffrence.

 

Archeage is the prime example of what happens when real money can be exchanged for ingame currency.

PvP was dead withnin 3 months same will happen the moment its allowed in this mmo.

Now daum has said they might enable it in the near future and when they do it will be basicly gameover....unless +20 damage is normalised so a +16 +17 can still beat a +20.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Well, what's the objective difference? They both have obscenely large sums of money. They both have much better gear than the majority of players. They both can influence the AH by buying out items. What, exactly, is the difference between the two in game? How they spend there time is an out of game difference, but in the game what's the objective difference? Is there one?

The no-lifer will have:
An average idea of what silver is worth in the game (not talking about the Dollar:Silver ratio)
Will have a better understanding of the game over someone who maybe played as much as the average joe.
The whale will have:
Silver earned from his/her real life daytime job.
No idea what he/she is doing.
Get bored fast after reaching the "end game" by buying his/her way to it and continueing to leave the game.

The difference is the time both player types have spend, a game with no-lifers could exists for multiple years till they finally reach end-game gear and get bored.
While a whale will reach end-game significantly faster, play for a while till he loses interest, just to continue to another game and maybe come back once in a while.

This is from my personal experience with MMO's and whales so take a little salt with this but I'd rather be owned by a no-lifer that knows his stuff than some -----boy buying himself power just because some players are too cheap to spend money on already lowered prices on cosmetics.

Edited by Yablo
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Posted

One did it with blood sweat and tears the other swipe his creditcard.

Thats the major diffrence.

 

Archeage is the prime example of what happens when real money can be exchanged for ingame currency.

PvP was dead withnin 3 months same will happen the moment its allowed in this mmo.

Now daum has said they might enable it in the near future and when they do it will be basicly gameover....unless +20 damage is normalised so a +16 +17 can still beat a +20.

 

 

 

Yes but what objective difference is there in the game? Which route they took doesn't change the fact that they both still stand at the top above everyone else. Their actions in game affect others in equal measure. It's impossible to tell a nolifer from a whale and vice versa. So other than some nebulous subjective feeling of fairness, what's the difference between the two?

Also Archeage crashed because of bots, not the cash shop.

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Posted (edited)

Except that's flat out wrong. As I said it is only P2W if you can't obtain it for free and/or it directly and negatively impacts other people's games.

Example 1: Super Gun 9000 is for sale in the cash shop, it shoots through walls and has auto-aim. It is only obtainable in the cash shop. This is Pay to Win

Example 2: Super Gun 9000 is for sale in the cash shop, it shoots through walls and has auto-aim. It can also be obtained by grinding for it in game. This is not Pay to Win.

The ability to sell cosmetic cash shop items falls under example 2. Even if you are obtaining something in game, the fact that it can be freely obtained without paying for it means it is absolutely not pay to win.

Now there is a bit of a gray area where if the grind is so obscenely long as to not be realistic, it is still pay to win. If paying money can get you a +20 in a month while playing normally would take years, that is P2W. But that is unrelated to the ability to sell cash shop items and more related to the unbalanced level of grind.

So, to reiterate. Just because you gain something in game with real money doesn't automatically make it pay to win. It has never been pay to win and it never will be pay to win no matter how much fanatical zealots cry that it is.

 

in a game that not does not have a gear cap pay to advance is the same as pay to win lol.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Krogos

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Posted

Yes but what objective difference is there in the game? Which route they took doesn't change the fact that they both still stand at the top above everyone else. Their actions in game affect others in equal measure. It's impossible to tell a nolifer from a whale and vice versa. So other than some nebulous subjective feeling of fairness, what's the difference between the two?

Also Archeage crashed because of bots, not the cash shop.

You keep talking about superficial feelings, and how thats wrong somhw. It obviously is an important aspect to a lot of people. Objectively speaking, keeping people with terminal illness alive is a waste of tax payer money. Therefore, by your logic, they should all be killed off, because feelings are not important, but being objective in all cases is.

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Posted

The no-lifer will have:An average idea of what silver is worth in the game (not talking about the Dollar:Silver ratio)
Will have a better understanding of the game over someone who maybe played as much as the average joe.
The whale will have:
Silver earned from his/her real life daytime job.
No idea what he/she is doing.
Get bored fast after reaching the "end game" by buying his/her way to it and continueing to leave the game.

The difference is the time both player types have spend, a game with no-lifers could exists for multiple years till they finally reach end-game gear and get bored.
While a whale will reach end-game significantly faster, play for a while till he loses interest, just to continue to another game and maybe come back once in a while.

This is from my personal experience with MMO's and whales so take a little salt with this but I'd rather be owned by a no-lifer that knows his stuff than some -----boy buying himself power just because some players are too cheap to spend money on already lowered prices on cosmetics.

I'm not seeing the problem. They buy their way to the top, get bored, quit. How does this affect you? How does someone enjoying their game affect you? You wont know if they're a nolifer or a whale. Both groups will have equal affect on the game and the majority who play it. Nothing changes for you, or for me, or for anyone. So why do you care? If that's how they enjoy their game then let em at it, they aren't hurting you or preventing you from enjoying your game.

 

in a game that not does not have a gear cap pay to advance is the same as pay to win lol.

There is a gear cap, though.

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Posted

Sure, urban dictionary is fine with me. And the definitions provided by urban dictionary prove it's not pay to win.

The top definition flat out says it has to "makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying." which selling costumes factually does not do. So by YOUR OWN DEFINITION it is not pay to win. You'd think when YOU have proven me right, you would give up.

Let's try this again. Maybe this time you will cmprehend what is happenng here...

. Usually by replacing the word in the definition with the actual ocurrence or subject and the definition stil making sense shows it's a valid definition.

Let's try another word...

bird
bərd/
noun
noun: bird; plural noun: birds
1.
a warm-blooded egg-laying vertebrate distinguished by the possession of feathers, wings, and a beak and (typically) by being able to fly.

 

Now lets try out some words and see if those words would fit into the category of the definition. Lets use DOG and DUCK

A DOG is a warm-blooded egg-laying vertebrate distinguished by the possession of feathers, wings, and a beak and (typically) by being able to fly.

A DUCK is a warm-blooded egg-laying vertebrate distinguished by the possession of feathers, wings, and a beak and (typically) by being able to fly.

Amazing! It turns out a duck is a warm blooded flying animal and a dog isn't!

Now lets do the same thing with Pay to Win. We'll use the phrase By purchasing items with real world money then converting those items into in game currency

By purchasing items with real world money then converting those items into in game currency allows you to: buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
 
By purchasing items with real world money then converting those items into in game currency allows you to: beat players who are inherently better than you in any game.
 
By purchasing items with real world money then converting those items into in game currency allows you to: gain advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months).

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Posted

You dont see the problem ?

Here i show you the problem.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

You keep talking about superficial feelings, and how thats wrong somhw. It obviously is an important aspect to a lot of people. Objectively speaking, keeping people with terminal illness alive is a waste of tax payer money. Therefore, by your logic, they should all be killed off, because feelings are not important, but being objective in all cases is.

Terminally ill people aren't kept alive on tax payer dollars. Why do you think their families get slammed with massive debt?

And in this instance it's wrong because the overwhelming majority of players don't care. So you're effectively screwing over tens of thousands of people because a tiny itty bitty fraction of the playerbase allows some nebulous feeling of fairness that they will never experience ruin their game experience. Stop caring about how someone else got their gear and focus on enjoying the game and it wont be an issue.

You dont see the problem ?

Here i show you the problem.

 

I see no problem with selling costumes on the AH.

Edited by Colt556

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Posted

I'm not seeing the problem. They buy their way to the top, get bored, quit. How does this affect you? How does someone enjoying their game affect you? You wont know if they're a nolifer or a whale. Both groups will have equal affect on the game and the majority who play it. Nothing changes for you, or for me, or for anyone. So why do you care? If that's how they enjoy their game then let em at it, they aren't hurting you or preventing you from enjoying your game.

It will affect me since outside of the annoyance that someone just bought all the gear I worked for. Someone is able to get ahead of everyone by not even playing the game.

By this logic I could work my whole life hard to become a doctor but Mikey also became a doctor by funding the constitution a considerable amount of cash, this doesn't affect me personally so this would be alright by your standards.

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Posted

I do as it will make players who have big creditcards win the game over people who work their balls off to get competitive.

We dont need that cancer in BDO.

 

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Posted

It will affect me since outside of the annoyance that someone just bought all the gear I worked for. Someone is able to get ahead of everyone by not even playing the game.

By this logic I could work my whole life hard to become a doctor but Mikey also became a doctor by funding the constitution a considerable amount of cash, this doesn't affect me personally so this would be alright by your standards.

Your example's a bit flawed since that exact thing happens every single day. Some people put in more work and get less. It's just the way life works.

But here's the thing, how can you be annoyed? You won't know. You have no way of knowing whether that person grinded for it or sold costumes. And hell, even if they did sell costumes they still have to work through the RNG same as everyone else. It's not like +20 gear just pop out of thin air y'know. So if you're the type of person who gets upset over the mere knowledge that someone, somewhere, has something you don't or got something for less work that sounds a lot like a personal problem you should overcome.

Worry less about how others enjoy their game and worry more about enjoying your game. Because your entire argument is basically you letting yourself ruin your own game experience by spending an undeserved amount of energy fretting about how some stranger you will never meet obtained their gear.

I do as it will make players who have big creditcards win the game over people who work their balls off to get competitive.

We dont need that cancer in BDO.

 

In short there's no objective difference between a nolifer and a whale other than how they spend their time. Why do you care?

I will never understand why you people put so much energy in worrying about how strangers enjoy their video games. I honestly will never understand.

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Posted

Your example's a bit flawed since that exact thing happens every single day. Some people put in more work and get less. It's just the way life works.

But here's the thing, how can you be annoyed? You won't know. You have no way of knowing whether that person grinded for it or sold costumes. And hell, even if they did sell costumes they still have to work through the RNG same as everyone else. It's not like +20 gear just pop out of thin air y'know. So if you're the type of person who gets upset over the mere knowledge that someone, somewhere, has something you don't or got something for less work that sounds a lot like a personal problem you should overcome.

Worry less about how others enjoy their game and worry more about enjoying your game. Because your entire argument is basically you letting yourself ruin your own game experience by spending an undeserved amount of energy fretting about how some stranger you will never meet obtained their gear.

You will know if a person is a whale or not by the way they're playing if you are atleast a bit of a decent pvp player..

how?
they would suck balls.

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